What advice do you have for DUers who were not here during the 2004 primary season?

[wyldwolf]

Here's mine:

Don't "expose" old dirt on your favorite's closest rival unless you're sure your guy isn't guilty of the same or similar actions. Chances are he/she is. And don't make bold proclamations like "President Clinton/Obama/Edwards/ - get used to it!" You'll probably be disappointed.

[illinoisprogressive]

1. good advise. I wasn't here in 04. I hate flame wars and avoid

posts that are chatting up a favorite candidate that I am not real interested in.
If it's about someone I like whether I am supporting them for prez, I post as I like the person.
If it's not, Just avoid posting there. saves alot of arguments and bad feelings.

[wyldwolf]

5. here's how it typically went down

DUer 1: Look at this article from 1999! __________ kills kittens!
DUer 2: ______ kills kittens, too. Says so in this 2001 article.
DUer 1: Yeah... but... ___________only kills TABBY kittens! And that's fine!

[Tellurian]

40. This is a sample of the repetitive BS we are faced with daily..

The good ole smear tactics..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3054098#3057027

Any suggestions to reduce smears against potential candidates
would be appreciated..thanks-

[AtomicKitten]

44. ugh

Whatever Clinton's peccadilloes, I get damn sick and tired of seeing him lumped in with PNAC thugs. And since when don't ex-presidents commune? I find this kind of propaganda exquisitely repulsive. If these people spent half their time actually reading history and investigative journalism instead of hit-blogs and faux-journalism blame pieces, they might glean a clue. And the really sad part is it's done to try to tank his wife's potential 2008 run. Those tactics are seriously lame particularly in light of the sniveling that ensues when you-know-who is discussed.

[nuxvomica]

2. Read what someone posts before responding to it

Don't just scan it for the first indication of "against my candidate" or "for my candidate". People's opinions are not so binary.

[AZBlue]

41. That's excellent advice - and can be well used in other topics as well on DU!

eom

[DURHAM D]

3. Some Dems act like Rethugs.

They will lie for a victory.

[Rebellious Republican]

6. Some Rethugs act like Dem's and lie just to disrupt these discussions

Yes we have trolls and political operatives around here. I just ignore them and use my own good judgment.

:think:

[Kahuna]

9. Yep! The tactics are very similar. Also the trolls will come out to

smear strong candidates. All of these trolls aren't repukes. Most are far left (falling off the cliff, anarchist types) who are just as happy to see the US in disarray so that they can prove a point that there's no difference between the two parties. They must be dealt with severely. :evilgrin:

[Taxloss]

4. My honest advice:

When tempted to attack a rival candidate, or attack a DUer for attacking your candidate, think about spending that time volunteering for your candidate instead, or for GOTV.

Alternatively, stick to the gardening/basketweaving/canasta/yourhobby group for a couple of months.

Both will help your blood pressure.

[OKNancy]

7. Also, make sure if you decide to slam someone, your facts

are correct. Look up a vote on votesmart or the Congressional Record before embarrassing yourself.
For example:
http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=BS030017

Obama did not vote for the Bankruptcy bill or for the flag desecration amendment

or Clinton:
http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

[salin]

15. good (and easy to follow) advice, OKNancy,

btw, :hi: :hug:

[NoPasaran]

8. Don't feel honor-bound to respond to flamebait

Remember that every response kicks a thread back to the top of the page, while ignoring it will let it sink down into the archives.

EXAMPLE 1:
"Candidate A sucks!"
"Does not!"
"Does!"
"Does not!"
"Does!"
"Does not!"
"Does!"
"Does not!"
"Does!"... and so on for three hundred replies until someone gets banned as a disruptor.

EXAMPLE 2:
"Candidate A sucks!"
.
.
.
"Yeah, he sure does suck alright!"
.
.
.
"Hey, I think there's a Hugo Chavez thread over in GD!"

[Rowdyboy]

10. When a linked article slams a candidate, check the source (author and publication)

in 2004 I caught MANY trolls attacking Wes Clark using right-wing authors and publications as their source. A quick Google of the author's name can usually tell you all you need to know. And the mods were usually happy to lock those cheap shots VERY quickly.

on edit: I'm sure supporters of any of the other candidates in 2004 can say the same thing. This phenomenon was not limited to Clark.

[roseBudd]

11. Push away from the keyboard, go out and canvass, register voters...

Distribute flyers you can make yourself or find and download on DU.

[roseBudd]

12. Frequent blogs that aren't lefty and when you post comments back your claims with quotes...

Today both Peggy Noonan and George Will have written stinging op eds about the Bush surge speech and the plan. That makes today a gift. Use columns written by conservatives or military officers to bolster your claims. Because let's face it, 2008 will be about Iraq.

Will's column is called Bush's Hail Mary Pass

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/12/AR2007011201949.html

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/

[bluehighways911]

13. My Advise

Prepare to talk about Lieberman all day, for no apparent reason.

OK back to your issue. I would say listen to the candidates and don't repeat the spin.

Which is all you will get here.

[Quantess]

16. Lieberman holds an inordinate amount of interest at DU.

I think Lieberman is a bit overblown in importance here.

[madfloridian]

17. Lieberman is why we could lose the Senate. He is of utmost importance.

So there is reason to talk about him.

[salin]

14. Avoid the need to a) bait members of another "candidate";

b) post inflamatory threads in "retaliation" to a poster for another candidate.
c) recognize that in the end it is very important that we can all come together and work together and that if we become completely divided by VITRIOL against each other in the run up to the general election - that vitriol will continue to infect and distract us.

[The Magistrate]

18. The Best Advice, Mr. Wolf

Is adopting Reagan's 'Eleventh Commandment", suitably altered into "Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Democrat." Speaking well of the candidate you support is the best way to highlight his or her strengths, relative to the competion. Remember that you will want your candidate to win the nomination and the election, and that doing this will eventually require support from people who initially prefered other candidates: this will be more readily and willingly obtained if your line has been "Mine is the greatest!" rather than "Your's is a turd!"

Primaries should be a showcase of how a candidate will campaign against the opposition in a general election, not an exercise in mutal destruction, aiming for the victory of a "last man standing" over bloodied rivals who once were friends. Charges levied in a primary by fellow Democrats will be picked up by the opposition in the general election, and can be presented then as things "even fellow Democrats say", rather than as purely partisan attacks. Candidates and their partisans make a bad and destructive mistake by doing the enemy's work for him in the primary cycle.

An eye should be kept out for persons who are not commenting really to support a candidate, but rather are taking the season as an opportunity to restate positions wholly irrelevant to the actual conduct of elections, and spread disenchantment with the political process as it actually exists. There is certainly a place for radical critiques of the social, economic, and political order, but persons actually seeking the endorsement of a majority of the Party's rank and file, and then of a majority of the electorate at large, are not going to adopt positions supported by only a tiny fraction of the people, and cannot be expected to do so.

[blm]

19. Just state your case, and if you disagree use the congressional record and reputable

sources to back you up. Because the person you are battling in 2007 will appreciate the civility and be your ally in 2008.

There is a very real camarederie between the most earnest of the 2003/4 Dean and Kerry supporters - we mainly learned to sort through what the MEDIA was saying about their differences to seek out what became their similarities.

We both know FIRSTHAND that the corpmedia is NOT a friend to the left, and neither is the power elite behind some of the DC establishment wing of the Dem party.

[salin]

21. Very good advice - if you recall, I was very much afraid that the

toxicity that grew between the Dean and Kerry folks during the primary - would be nearly insurmountable going into the general elections. Indeed, I don't think all of the wounds healed until after the elections. One of the saddest casualties was a beloved DU late Duer felt so attacked - not personally but the vitriol was so high that he took every comment about "Koolaid Drinkers" (refering to Dean folks) that he stopped posting altogether for a period of time. That was painful to him, and a loss to the community... especially since we didn't have him a long a whole lot longer after he returned. :cry:

You are right on about the clear shift to allies now ... such an amazing thing the now-unity. Kef would have loved it.

[madfloridian]

22. I found a couple of Kephra's posts the other day.

I felt the pain.

It was a painful time.

[blm]

24. I thought it was useful to hear what the weaknesses are and go after them.

I remember telling Kef that should Dean become the nominee his candidacy would benefit more from those posts that were tough against him but made fair points that his campaign could address, moreso than any of the posts that just parroted the good and the bad from the corpmedia at the time.

The same with Kerry camp. imo, the campaign would have benefitted even more by more agressively talking to the hardcore Deaniacs who had a tougher view of him that stayed throughout the general. Granted, at that point, they had alot on their plate , but still...if *I* were running the campaign.....

[salin]

25. the problem with those "discussions" is they became bomb throwing

between duers - and one camp often made broad generalizations about the members of the other camp. It was far past vetting positions. It was ugly - and for some, including Kef, it felt wounding.

We would do much better if folks kept away from insulting other camps of PEOPLE of fellow DEMS and Progressives.

If we can learn to have tough POLICY talks and STRATEGY talks - all for the good. But much more civility would have to become the norm that occurred the last time around.

[blm]

28. I never could stand the kool-aid drinking insult used against each other.

DU should really work to uphold the standard of 'Go ahead and be tough, but be tough and FAIR" because tough and FAIR is USEFUL for the general election and the eventual nominee.

[salin]

29. absolutely agree.

[Rebellious Republican]

46. Well said salin, I know who you speak of. It was the old timers

like him, you, blm, and many others that tutored me on DU etiquette during my transition from the dark side. It was those old timers that saw that I was sincere, and took me under their wings, guiding me along in my new found party affiliation. I to became very frustrated with all the bashing that was happening. I also understood that political operatives were coming to DU to Disrupt it, divide and conquer was their only mission. DU has become a formidable force in politics and the GOP has come to fear us. I will always adhere to the beliefs and philosophy that I was taught in the early days here at DU. It is a big tent, my suggestion to others is, remember there are always going to be trolls posting flame bait in order to disrupt, don't be a fish and bite, just ignore the artificial lure they dangle in front of you.

:think:

[salin]

47. very sage advise, RR

some of those artificial lures dangled back in the last primary season - set off major feuds among backers of various candidates. I would say that as time went on, even though the feuds continued, more and more folks caught on to the 'false bait' threads. Perhaps that growing savvy the last time around will help us this time around.

Btw :hi:

[The Ghost]

20. WATCH WHAT YOU SAY

because 99.9% chance you will be supporting, the eventual nominee, and if he/she is not your original choice, you will look the fool later on defending them against the GOP attacks. bottom line is, all candidates have their good sides and bad sides, NONE of them are perfect, so concentrate on their good points and leave it at that. anything else is a disservice during the general election.

[Jack Rabbit]

23. Don't start campaigning a year before the Iowa Caucuses

[AnOhioan]

26. Have a thick skin.....

especially if you decide to publically issue statements supporting your own choice.

[madfloridian]

27. It takes more than one side giving in and cooperating.

I don't have a pick in 08 yet. But I do have a gripe about something.

Some here still do not consider the blogosphere to be a legit source of info yet. I find it hard to understand. The words may be less proper, but huge amounts of research go into many posts at what are some of the main lefty blogs.

These people at those blogs are often lawyers, technical experts, statisticians. Yet there are a few here who do not consider them such a worthy source.

The cable news networks are most obviously not reliable news anymore, and I have my doubts about ABC after the 9/11 show fiasco. Watching perky Katie is like getting teeth pulled, and NBC even denied global warming one night.

I think there are some here who need to realize that many are still going to demand change in the party. It is not going to stop, it is not going to just go away. I think we all should be responsible in what we post and consider sources...but.

The bloggers are not going away, they will continue their work. Some of the posts at Daily Kos, MyDD, FDL, Down With Tyranny, and Glenn Greenwald are a little over blown...but if they are wrong they get slapped down by other bloggers.

I no longer want to be accused of lying or using bad sources when I post thoughtful blog posts. So it works both ways.

[JeffR]

30. Be afraid... be very afraid...n/t

[cmd]

31. You are a liberal. Use the ignor button liberally.

It will be your best friend.

[1932]

32. Take wyldwolf's posts with a grain of salt

:)

[wyldwolf]

34. yes, please, ignore all the advice in this thread.

[1932]

35. That's not what "take it with a grain of salt" means.

;)

[wyldwolf]

36. essentially, it is

Not a big leap from saying someone should view all things sceptically and outright ignoring them.

But, of course, the same could be said for your posts.

[1932]

38. If that's what I meant, I would have said that.

[1932]

39. If that's what I meant, I would have said that.

[Radical Activist]

33. Don't be a missionary.

Go ahead, argue for your candidate. But don't use wild, twisted logic to make an argument and bash other candidates only because it benefits your chosen primary candidate. It makes for dishonest, boring discussions.
Also, admit that your chosen candidate isn't perfect once in a while. It will be healthier for you personally and add to your credibility in the forum. In the long run, cults of personality don't help the movement unless they grow into something bigger.

[montieg]

37. When someone jumps your ass for whoever you promote, just

remember, "Joke 'em if they can't take a fuck!"

[Kelly Rupert]

42. No candidate is "too liberal to win."

Don't feed the notion that "liberal" is a dirty word.

[Kelly Rupert]

43. No candidate is "the same as Bush."

Conservative Democrats are still Democrats, and are a far sight better than anything the Republicans will throw out. Don't eat our own, and don't drive moderates and conservatives into the Republican party.

[AtomicKitten]

45. bingo

You are exactly right on all counts.

[More Than A Feeling]

48. Bash the bejeezus out of the Republican field.

They are the ultimate obstacle, and they need to be taken down first, so that the Democratic primary moves closer to being the de facto general election.

[Tellurian]

49. We have plenty of Green retreads here bashing Democrats..

Any and ALL democrats..

same to them... then!