80% disapprove of the escalation. Yet it's going to happen. what went wrong?

[Doctor_J]

How did We The People completely lose our government? Is there any practical way to get it back?

[yurbud]

1. media reform, campaign finance reform, weld shut revolving door, break big oil into tiny pieces...

and then things will be halfway okay for about 20 years until the Borg adapt to our defenses.

[CrispyQ]

3. ...

:rofl:

[Parche]

13. COUP

It happened on 9/11 2001..................

[CrispyQ]

2. Complacency.

When the largest voting party in America is the non-voting party, it's not surprising that we lost our way.

I have several bumper stickers on my back window & the other day a young woman was reading them as I approached my truck. One sticker reads: Real Patriots Don't Need an Act. She asked me what that meant. :wow:

[yurbud]

7. see THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED for how to get layabouts to vote

it's no secret--actually do stuff that affects their lives, and not the micro-incremental that Democrats often settle for.

[ananda]

4. Nothing went wrong.

Everything is going swimmingly for BushInc as a corporofascist
dictatorship.

[Virginia Dare]

5. Well, let's go back to the year 2000....

when the Supreme Court decided that Schmucky Jr. would be our President.

[no_hypocrisy]

9. BINGO! n/t

[Mister Ed]

6. What went wrong: a successful coup was staged in 2000. n/t

[yurbud]

8. some of those justices should spend their final days like Pinochet

barely dodging a prison cell.

[Doctor_J]

41. See post 40

[Captain Hilts]

10. We're subverting Democracy in the US to establish Democracy in Iraq. Got a problem wit dat? nt

[harveyc]

11. Pelosi and Reid sold us out.. n/t

[mzmolly]

12. Pelosi and Reid did not authorize the funds, the previous Rethuglican congress

did. :hi: Welcome.

[harveyc]

14. They could have told Shrub ...

they would work to vote down his Iraq war supplemental for $100 to $120 billion in Congress this February. They have to start leading to stop this failed war someday. Thanks for the welcome :)

[mzmolly]

18. We don't know what they told Bush. However, I'd rather not show our cards

until we have to. Additionally, they have both said they will not fund the "surge."

[harveyc]

24. They can't stop the "surge" ...

The initial "surge" will be funded by the previous supplemental. They can, however, say they will not fund the new supplemental in a few weeks, ending the failed war in Iraq and bring our soldiers home.

[mzmolly]

25. They said they will provide for the soldiers who are in Iraq, and will not provide

funds for more, perhaps that is being referred to as "the supplemental?"

So, tell me how they sold us out given they're not in a position to act for "a few weeks?"

[harveyc]

27. Funding for the soldiers we currently have in Iraq ...

as Ms. Pelosi has stated, is a sell out by itself (Face the Nation, 1/7/07). What happened to ending the "entire" war in Iraq? From statements like that and not seeing any of the leadership calling for a complete defunding of the Iraq war, I think we are getting setup for a fall.

[mzmolly]

28. I think we're getting to the point where funds will be cut.

But, it's a sticky situation.

[harveyc]

30. How so?

Congress votes against the new Iraq supplemental in a few weeks and funds, in a separate supplemental, to redeploy our troops safely from Iraq using a Murtha framework. We redeployed from Vietnam.

[mzmolly]

31. This is what we're working on currently.

However, I was under the impression you wanted the troops "HOME?"

[enough already]

50. They COULD take the funds away right now

But they don't have the balls do it, apparently.

[mzmolly]

51. No they couldn't.

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. You do know the Dems have had the gavel a week

don't you?

Who voted for the funds?

Oh yes the 109th Congress NOT the 110th Congress...

Capice?

Oh and welcome to Du

[harveyc]

23. Understand ...

but the Congress is going to be presented with a new Iraq supplemental for $100 to $120 billion in a few weeks. They could come out now and say they won't fund it. Put pressure on not escalating now using what is left of the previous supplemental. If they do approve the new supplemental, we are screwed since Shrub will have enough funding until the end of his term. Now is the time to show some leadership and stop this madness. Thank you for the welcome :)

[mzmolly]

26. There is a reason Pelosi has Murtha in charge of "funding"

and we're about to see that "reason" demonstrated.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/04/murtha-troop-escalation/

Defense Appropriations Chairman John Murtha (D-PA) told Arianna Huffington last week that he wants to “fence the funding,” denying the president the resources to escalate the war, instead using the money to take care of the soldiers as we bring them home from Iraq “as soon as we can.”

[harveyc]

29. He was only talking about ...

the "surged" soldiers, unless I am reading that article wrong. What about stopping funding for the entire Iraq war and bring the soldiers that are stuck there home now also?

[mzmolly]

32. Are you for bringing them home or redeployment?

Seems you have two positions?

[harveyc]

33. Home, but ...

if redeployment of soldiers to positions outside the US is a better alternative, in the short term, that is ok too. I am not sure how many combat soldiers have to be "redeployed" away from home.

[mzmolly]

34. When we as a party talk of redeployment, we're talking about putting

soldiers on the borders of Iraq, and letting the Iraqi's battle without our troops being targets. Also, we are hoping to stop Iranians and/or Syrians from coming over the border to make matters worse. Of course, if we redeploy to the outskirts, we'd be able to have some troops come home I imagine?

Let me say that Murtha has been supported by Pelosi ever step of the way. He is in the position he is in, for a reason. We will see that Dems have not "sold out," but we are in a no win situation. Some will claim we have sold out no matter what we do.

[harveyc]

35. Soldier redeployment / withdrawal ...

I consider the same thing, getting us out of the Iraq war. I don't think "redeployment" of combat troops near theater will last very long.

I also think that you can count on both hands the number of people who use the term "sold out" regarding the Vietnam war. It was the right thing to do and saved 1,000's of soldier's lives.

[mzmolly]

36. YOU consider redeployment the same thing, but others will not.

Further, redeployment is not "bringing them home." As I said, we're in a no win situation.

My Dad was in Vietnam and I agree that cutting funds was the right thing to do, but history has shown that Democrats paid a political price. We are trying to figure out the best way to effectively end the war, with out "endangering the troops."

[harveyc]

37. I understand but ...

the risk is, if the new supplemental is approved by Congress next month, even if it excludes the "surge" funding, there will probably be no end to the Iraq war until after the election in 2008. There will be a heavy political price to pay if that happens.

I don't hear anyone but Sen. Feingold and Rep. Kucinich saying this in clear terms. :(

[mzmolly]

38. Indeed a "no win situation."

So, we must do all we can to effectively end this war.

[harveyc]

42. Indeed ...

and asap, the moment of truth to either continue this failed war or get out of Iraq is imminent. The vote on the supplemental next month will be the day of judgment.

[Jack Rabbit]

15. Ask Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush what went wrong

They know.

[lisa58]

16. Supreme Court decision December 2000....

...if you don't have to count the votes, you don't have to answer to the people.

[Doctor_J]

40. But I think it was lost before that

if our democracy had still been alive, when the SCOTUS tried to stop the vote counting, 30 million people would have been in the streets. The Delay mob that stormed the recount office would have been met with baseball bats or small arms fire. Believe me, those chicken shits would have turned tail and run at the first sight of blood.

I think Coup 2000 was just the last straw.

[lisa58]

48. You're right...

...the Supreme Court Decision just proved it.

[blm]

17. Force the investigation into How/Why Iraq war came about - Force answers w/subpoenas.

Until that happens, BushInc has NO MOTIVATION to change course.

[Eurobabe]

21. Roger that blm!

[mzmolly]

19. The SCOTUS gave the election to a man who didn't win, that's what went wrong.

The way to get it back is to keep electing Democrats in numbers impossible to refute.

[Beer Snob-50]

22. How about hearings

with the past leaders of the US Occupation forces in Iraq? Let them tell a House/Senate Comittee on TV what is happening and what should be done. Unfortunatly, Shrub will just ignore the wishes of the Congress at that point and then we have to look to see if there are impeachable offenses (the raid of the Iranian offices in IRAQ may be)

[Clarkie1]

39. G.W.B. was "re-elected" in 2004. That's what went wrong. nt

[leesa]

43. Nothing. PNAC is on course. The rich elite are managing their coup.

[ProudDad]

44. Corporate "personhood"

That's what happened.

Read Thom Hartmann's "Screwed"

---------

Until we get public financing of elections and a complete ban on corporation money in our electoral system we're still screwed.

[LaPera]

45. BushCo stole both elections....9-11 Bush uses at every opportunity, bullshit patriotism

Bush forces upon Dems to prove their "loyalty" at every turn....The Dems need to let Bush fall with no return, They are hoping otherwise and the Dem's will get the blame...though our troops will be the ones to pay... Congressional funding will proceed and the an even bigger quagmire will occur, Iran...Lots of profits still to be made and Iran will insure it for years. Bush doesn't care what we think...profits, "war president" and more death and killing which Bush adores, the crazed little dictator...The Dem's are in a very tough position and Rove knows it...So BushCo will proceed to make an even bigger obscenity in the mid-east... They just don't care....not when trillions of dollars are at stake.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. Nothing went wrong, the consequence is that Bush will drag his party into the gutter

And there will be a Democratic landslide in 2008 just like there was in 2006. The only thing that you could say is wrong with our system is that we are more or less stuck with whoever we elect for 4 years.

[CJCRANE]

47. Bush-Cheney listen to Saudi Arabia.

They're the paymasters. American opinion is irrelevant.

[enough already]

49. Impeachment

Plain and simple. Who has the balls to kickstart it?