Don't count Kerry out for 08

[bigdarryl]

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Kerry_announces_staff_additions_to_DC_0117.html
The Raw Story | Shakeup: Kerry spokesman plays down staff changes, but admits they may be factor in 2008

[David Dunham]

1. Kerry is DOA as to 2008.

[Daylin Byak]

3. I agree

Let's put it this way...Dean had the "scream", Kerry had the "joke" one action can ruin a campaign and those did it.

[Firespirit]

11. Dean was already in decline before the scream

The scream was later used by party activists as a symbol for the excitement of the 2004 campaign and the anger against Bush. It was an "object" of affection, in a way. Dean had been in decline before he screamed.

One major problem in 2004 was the "Anyone but Bush" mentality, a meme that was encouraged by the Internet and the media, not the Kerry operation. Those last voters swung the way they did in part because they got the impression that Democrats weren't voting for their candidate, but against the other guy.

[INdemo]

16. The Republicans were very effective in making an issue

out of the "botched" joke. The media more so than the Repukes.... But dont be so sure that Democrats bought into that BS....Republicans will no doubt be watching all the candidates for "swift boating" material..Its a very long time till Nov 08.......

[Firespirit]

18. Oh, at least one Democrat USED it to her advantage. /nt

[blm]

27. I'd say more to her disadvantage - roll the tape of Hillary joining Bush and McCain

in their scoldfest for something that everyone in DC knew was a lie that needed manufactured outrage. Larry King showed those clips together last month and it looked like the total betrayal of truth that it was.

[karynnj]

36. Also if Hillary needed to dispell an image as being cold as ice

that mean, shrill episode wasn't the best plan. In fact, sympathetic response could have helped - without helping Kerry.

[Firespirit]

48. Yes, it made her look really bad

Or, it would have if more people had seen that video of her. Realistically, I think it was a wash for her. I should've said that she tried to make political hay of it, rather than defending a party leader against a right-wing smear.

[karynnj]

70. It' s funny I had stopped watching TV then,

so I first saw it in a montage that Larry King played taking the calm,serious, dignified first two lines of Kerry's rebuttal (which is on Johnkerry.com - it is not excessively angry - he is not jabbing his finger into a Fox broadcaster's face for instance) followed by pasty faced McCain, Hillary (as cold as ice) then Bush.

When he said he was going to play some video - I cringed feeling sorry for poor Senator Kerry - but he came out the best of the bunch.

The other thing with Hillary is the story was ending - and earlier in the year Kerry defeated the swiftboating of Murphy and Sestack. If this also was defeated - and there were people calling it for what it was - this could have been trumpeted as the Democrats really fighting back the RW echo chamber. That Hillary did this a few days before the election - KNOWING Kerry was too good a person to enter into a public fight then stings. In my mind, she is cast as "Tanya Harding"

[zulchzulu]

21. Even Bill O'Reilly thought the "botched joke" was BS...

It's old news already.

If you think ANY democratic candidate should make that an issue, then I'd love to see it. Look what's for dinner... that candidate's head.

[wisteria]

40. Bullsh*T, THE JOKE IS NOTHING! Clinton had Jennifer flowers, Monica, and Whitewater,

and health care reform he is still around. The public realizes the joke was a dirty trick. Believe me, Kerry will not be defined by a political trick. Especially one that was based on lies. Wishful thinking.

[ruggerson]

55. The field is oh so green

and the trees, fully flowered, bend in the breeze, and the colors... oh the colors!....

[AtomicKitten]

12. I think that is correct.

There is too much serious competition and he got banged up too badly the last go.

[LittleClarkie]

20. Fine. I'll cast my vote for the dead guy

No problem.

[BlueIris]

26. Yeah. And...that's the first time I've ever posted that.

Lions and Tigers and Leos from Illinois, oh, my!

[wisteria]

43. Me too,I might even write him in! n/t

[MH1]

139. Considering my state doesn't really get a vote anyway, I plan to do that regardless.

It seems highly unlikely that PA will matter in the outcome, so I may as well put my vote in for the guy I really want.

But I am not counting him out anyway.

[Clevenger]

28. Kerry DOA in 08 Race? I sure hope you're right! n/t

[wisteria]

44. Why?You don't want real leadership and experience running our country/ n/t

[Clevenger]

52. What I want is an electable Democrat. n/t

[wisteria]

94. He's electable, more so than before. And, more than Clinton and Obama. n/t

[Clevenger]

120. Is Kerry more electable than Gore? n/t

[Firespirit]

130. I am as hardcore a Kerry supporter as anyone

but I do agree that if Gore entered the race, he'd lock it up by the end of the year.

However, I really don't think he's running. I don't want flames for this; it's just my reading of the actions he's taken. It'd be his if he wanted it, but I don't think he does anymore.

[Parche]

153. kerry

I agree with you
If Gore runs, he is a lock

But I too am a strong supporter of Kerry and have always been.

[laugle]

81. What I would like to know is,

where the hell is he????

We all know he is going to run, so why doesn't he say so......

Do you have the inside track??

[wisteria]

95. He is letting the others play out for a bit, lining things up. He will have to play

defense and he needs to be careful about it.

[Firespirit]

131. As I understand it...

He's doing a final gut check on it.

Also, he is first and foremost a public servant rather than a camera whore, and he has a job to do... which he has been doing these past few weeks.

[paulk]

31. yeah, I heard the same thing last election cycle

:shrug:

[wisteria]

38. Oh, and you would know??? Frankly, don't mine me if I don't take your word for it. n/t

[zann725]

156. Or..."D.I.O.A?."(Do It Over Again)...WITH Machines that count this time!

May the best man win honestly.

[Atomium]

2. but...

Count him out for getting elected though.

[Mass]

4. Who knows?

[derby378]

7. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[INdemo]

9. He hasn't Lost an election yet.......

Remember he won in 2004

[jgraz]

86. He's never won an election against anyone that wasn't a failed president

2008 is different from 2004. Kerry won't be able to count on the Anybody But Bush vote.

[Firespirit]

132. Bush won't be on the ticket

Today, Bush is so unpopular that he might lose to a Paris/Britney ticket.

The 2008 race won't be about Bush, but about Bush's policies, and whether the public wants a continuation of them. I think McCain will get the Repuke nomination by virtue of the GOP establishment and the fact that it anoints its candidates rather than letting the people select them, and McCain as we all know is a neocon toady. The race will be about whether America will vote for a continuation of Bushit or a turn in the right direction.

Kerry is a strong voice against that sort of crap. He is a meticulous thinker and planner, and has had comprehensive plans for numerous issues that are important to us liberals and progressives. The only problem right now is that not many people know about them, which would change if he ran for president.

And, don't get me started on the Anybody But Bush people. They are a major part of WHY the 2004 election was lost nationally (and, IMO, stolen in Ohio and NM). If swing voters detect enthusiasm from one candidate's supporters and "OMG we HATE your guy" from the other's, who do you think they're going to go with?

[Mass]

5. I never did!

I have no idea what he will eventually do, but only fools will count him out before he makes a decision.

[derby378]

6. Kerry's message is going to need some serious retooling for '08

Don't get me wrong. I worked harder for Kerry than I have for any other Presidential candidate. I even designed and sold Kerry campaign bumper stickers. Personally, I like the guy. But his 2004 campaign stunk on ice. He was way too conciliatory towards Bush, and his own platform for America was a flat as a day-old Diet Rite soda. He antagonized the anti-war Democrats by not being strong enough on Iraq, and he antagonized gun-owning Democrats by supporting extension of the semi-auto ban. He won the debates against Bush, but sometimes it was not by much.

We need a candidate who can knock the ball out of the park in 2008. If Kerry can't find his voice, he needs to step back and let someone else take a crack at it.

[AndyA]

8. We need a candidate who can knock the ball out of the park in 2008.

THAT says it all. Nothing else matters.

Black or white, male or female, experienced or non-experienced, none of it matters. We need some one who can hit a home run with an extremely high success rate.

[derby378]

10. Bada-bing, bada-boom

Or, to quote Emeril: "BAM!"

:hi:

[paulk]

32. the problem is -

The MSM moves the fences out for the Democrats, while the Republicans get to play on a Little League field...

[karynnj]

25. I 'm sure you sold lots of people with that attitude

He actually can use a huge part of his 2004 platform.

On Iraq, things have clearly changed. Kerry actually had a decent plan in 2004 - elements of which the ISG group have recommended. In the debate, Bush said that "that was the Bush plan" - but nothing Kerry spoke of in the debates were what Bush did. Kerry wanted to take advantage of other country's offered help in rapidly training Iraqis (In Feb 2005, Rice told Kerry they didn't want Egypt, Jordan, France and Germany training soldiers.) Kerry wanted the Iraqis doing the reconstruction (cheaper and it gives them a stake) Kerry spoke of intenational diplomacy (summit) - still has happened. Kerry said "No premannet bases". Sure looks good in retrospect - and so not Bush.

Now, he can run on the leadership he has offered in pushing people on this issue - Kerry more than anyone has lead on this in 2005 and 2006. Kerry/Feingold has far more content than Edwards' vague plan. (Edwards has far more to change on this from his actually pro-war position in 2004) He was and is clearly more capable and better on what to do than Obama and Hillary. Who has dodn more?

On the War in Terror - even George Will now says Kerry was right. Kerry's credentials on this go back to the BCCI work he did. Kerry fought like hell to get the government to follow up on these issues - and wrote a book on the globalization of crime (including terror) and its ramification.

Kerry's way of connecting alternative fuels research and development with national security, the economy and the environment has been copied by many. Gore, himself, spoke of Kerry having the best record in the Senate on the environment and he was endorsed in the primaries by the LCV.

Kerry's health plan was considered the best of what was offered. Kerry also had a record here as his and Kennedy bill was retooled to become the S-Chip program.


Kerry has done far more with his Small Business Committee to help people in poverty than others who simply talk about it.

Even the biased media declared Kerry the overwelming winner of the debates.

[wisteria]

45. I agree. Much of his 04 platform is very relivent if not more so now! n/t

[derby378]

122. I'm not knocking what you listed above, but..."War on Terror?"

There never was a real "War on Terror." That was simply a neo-con Republican frame used to justify the robbing of our civil rights and the invasion of Iraq. Instead of a War on Terror, we have a Reign of Terror.

All too often, Kerry spoke the language that Bush was using. I'm a big believer in Lakoff's concepts, and one thing you do not do with frames is to use the language and the constructs of the enemy. Instead, you create your own vocabulary and use it to promote your own ideals.

[INdemo]

30. Most of every single issue Kerry talked about has been proven to be

correct..The Iraq war,Healthcare,,Port Security and the list goes on..I wouldn't know why he should change his message...The media will keep bashing Kerry because the Republicans fear him..They wont defeat him this time around (they didnt defeat him last time)They want to run against Hillary
But I believe the 2008 election is the Democrat's election to lose..Its like 1932 all over again..We could run Sponge Bob and defeat any potential Republican out there..
Some in the media (even the Repuke spin Doctors) tend to act as if the Democratic nominee will be the next President sworn in..The Republican party has been demolished by this administration..

[mtnsnake]

54. Retooling? Nobody can figure out what his message was the last time around

Kerry was nothing short of confusing. The clearest thing he said in the last campaign was, "I'm going to seek out those terrorists but maybe along the way I'll hunt some geese and if they fly my sailboard needs some wind so just look the other way instead of going to war although I'm all for killing them better and you know she's a lesbian."

Everything else, though, was next to impossible to understand what the hell he was trying to say.

No thanks!

[PresidentObama]

82. Are you secretly RW?

"I'm going to seek out those terrorists but maybe along the way I'll hunt some geese and if they fly my sailboard needs some wind so just look the other way instead of going to war although I'm all for killing them better and you know she's a lesbian."

Talk about a credibility killing statement. :crazy:

[Tellurian]

85. Kerry can't even make the decision if he's going to RUN..

Hillary may not have announced, but it's been evident for a very long time she's gearing up for a run!

John Kerry is probably the nicest man in the world, But this is not his time.

There are too many pressing issues on the table, with the IW, Al's Threat of Global Warming, Restoration of the Constitution..

This is not his race. In 2004 these issues were still in flux and easily retrievable from the brink.
That time is long past. Kerry just doesn't have the FIRE in his belly to be a convincing enough candidate
who can be trusted to get the job done. We can't afford to lose another presidential election. Our very lives
depend on the strongest Democrat in the race. Kerry is still reshuffling his cards.

[karynnj]

93. He can and he will make a decision

apparently you think it ok that Hillary, and presumably Gore haven't declared yet. This is quite early for declaring.

As to global warming - Gore is the leader on this and Kerry has good credentials on that and many other environmental issue.

The Clintons don't. Bill had a mediocre record in Arkansas and did not take steps to deal with the miles per gallon going down if computed over all person car/vans/SUVs. I loved the use of Churchill's phrase "the years the locust ate" to discribe the interval from when we stopped conserving (after JC was out until the precent.) Even with Gore to pressure him, Clinton didn't act to prevent an obvious future problem.

He also didn't push very hard to stop internal money laundering that aided terrorists and drug runners.

He didn't act to anticipate and counter predictable problems.

[Nederland]

13. Too late

Kerry already counted himself out with an inept campaign...

Time for new blood.

[Firespirit]

15. It wasn't Kerry's campaign that was inept.

Kerry's campaign didn't go from 2 percent in the polls to sweeping Iowa and New Hampshire for being "inept."

The ineptitude started after the national party, under the "leadership" of Terry McAuliffe, got in the picture.

[wisteria]

99. Sabotage? Or just ineptness? n/t

[blm]

41. The DNC ran an 'inept' targetted state strategy that lost 2000, 2002, and 2004.

They didn't expect a contest at all in 2004, so they never dtrengthened the collapsed party infrastructure that could not secure the election process for the Dem voters and candidates in too many states where the organization was disbanded or unsupported in the years before Kerry became the nominee.

[wisteria]

46. Oh, and if he would of won, his would have had a brilliant campaign. His campaign wasn't bad.

Actually, there were many positives that came from his campaign in 04. Besides, he has learned from the mistakes that were made and he is to good of a candidate to rule out another run. Your thinking is not progressive at all, but shortsighted.

[Firespirit]

14. Don't count anyone out unless they themselves tell you to

Hillary seems to be in free-fall right now. Obama and Edwards announce, and their popularity skyrockets. A lot of why Kerry polls low is because there is a widespread idea that he's already decided not to get in, so people won't express support for someone who they think isn't running.

If he does get in, he'll make sure people know what he stands for and what he has been doing these past two years. The media haven't covered his real accomplishments very well at ALL, and I suspect that people would be pleasantly surprised if he created a platform to talk about them.

[beachmom]

17. I think we're just going to have to wait for him to announce either way.

Anything past that is speculation. But . . . given the current field, full of celebrity and not much else, I think there's a gaping hole where someone of gravitas, experience, and vision can go.

[zulchzulu]

19. Well duh....

Kerry is going to get into the race.

Count on it. And count on him doing well in the primaries. I'd expect him to declare his candidacy by no later than April.

Anyone who thinks he should not get in the race are merely threatened by his level of experience, background and abilities.

All I can say is support who you think would be the best candidate to be the leader of the free world. Work hard for that person. We'll see what happens in the debates and on the campaign trail.

[janx]

22. I won't count him out, but staff changes don't necessarily mean

that he's running for president--in fact, the fact that these are Senate staff people could signal quite the opposite.

[ProSense]

23. Encouraging!

The popular U.S. senator from Illinois was in Manchester, N.H., in December for a national Democratic victory tour after the midterm elections, a celebration that drew almost 1,700 people.

“He really impressed everyone in the crowd. Speaking to 1,700 people he was still very personable,” said Joan Ashwell, chairman of the Strafford County Democratic Committee in New Hampshire. “Kerry’s gotta get in there pretty soon. John Kerry has a lot of support in New Hampshire.”

link

Run John, Run!

[generaldemocrat]

24. Well, best of luck....

but I think a lot of people on both sides of the aisle have already made their minds up about him. Once Americans have sealed their perception on a politician, it is virtually impossible to change it.

Best of luck to him anyways.

[politicasista]

33. Even the people that saw all three debates?

:shrug:

[INdemo]

34. He doesn't have the luxury of running this time without giving up his

Senate seat........

[karynnj]

35. Things may not be what they appear at the moment

What I see is that the same pundits that ridicule Senator Kerry sit quietly and respectfully when they are asking him serious questions, especially about foreign policy.

In 2004, hundreds of milions of dollars were spent to frame Kerry in negative ways. Now Democratic opponents and Republicans are trying to label him as a joke. However, Kerry in person speaking to issues - quietly, without mentioning it blows that idea away. He is an intelligent, very knowlegable, competent solid man.

The interesting thing is that - other than in freeper's minds - NOTHING has been shown that diminishes him or Teresa as people, his competence or his ability to find solutions. If he runs - he will make a case of why he should be given the nomination a second time.

At this point - on the key issues - he has the right positions, the experience that two candidates lack, proven integrity and character. On these obvious criteria - he is a better choice than any of the declared candidates and Hillary.

[wisteria]

100. There is always room for change and a lot of things about good things about Kerry have not yet

become known. Besides this, Reagan was known, Nixon was known, Lincoln was known, it all depends on how you present yourself. Some people on the other side of the aisle won't like anyone we offer up.

[wisteria]

29. Exactly. I haven't counted him out. I think he is going to run.

Just a hunch, but I think he has a better chance this time than in 04. He has learned from his mistakes, he has become wiser and he will be the most seasoned candidate running. Not to mention the one with the most to offer with the most appeal and dedicated base of support. With the choices we have now, we really need him in this race.

[PresidentObama]

37. I wouldn't count Kerry out, no.

He never lost in the first place.

Him and Gore are more then welcome to run again!

[MarjorieG]

39. Support a leader, not a new prom king

I understand the reluctance of support for Kerry in 2008, and it's mostly from lack of awareness of how well he did against the odds, probably won, and that it was never going to be a slam dunk. He came from within 2 plus percentage points of a sitting president, and during wartime, an historic high, not supported by the media, and without verifiable voting and Dem organizations on the ground. Electeds not entirely helping and watching his back were also true. McAuliffe clearly cared about donations more than securing the vote.

We've since grown an alternative media (which wasn't always honest about the challenges), grown a grassroots, won legislatures, nd that was in 2004. Include all the help he gave to discovering then helping to elect talent.

When a country has been sold on bad stuff, branding, labels for so long, one election does not move it the whole way. We'd need a fairer media for a miracle.

The problems are great in the country and the world. We need someone very qualified to help steer and rebuild this country. We need Kerry's finesse, strength, integrity and willingness to go through the cauldron for us.

He has been strong since the campaign, in the same way he has always been, with his speeches, leading a filibuster, pushing the Iraq issue, when, frankly, he never wanted war, and said at the time of the vote. Other candidates haven't been as clear, as early, and certainly not with the solutions he's offered for years. People know that.

Few have a sense of the interconnectedness of all the issues, so thoroughly.

1) This is not an entertainment opportunity to fall in love, at the expense of a sound choice to win an election and lead the country.

2) Ask yourselves why the media and administration spend so much time to try and diminsh him. Maybe because he is still out there trying to lead on our issues, even if as Dems we pretend not to notice.

Whoever we nominate, we need to be more realistic about what it takes to win over an entire country, especially without a mainstream media, and still improving our organizations. Kerry had to introduce himself, be hopeful, informative, as well criticize Bush.

Since, he's learned to rely less on the people who were supposed to know better, knows better who his friends are. Kerry is being Kerry, and that's formidable.

[wisteria]

47. Good post! n/t

[zulchzulu]

49. Welcome to DU!

And may I say, quite a nice post...

[ProSense]

53. Wonderful post! Welcome!

Glad you found your way to DU, Marjorie G.

[LittleClarkie]

58. Indeed,

and thanks.

[BlueIris]

116. Little late to the party here, but I will also welcome you!

Come see us in the Kerry forum. Lots.

[wisteria]

42. NO OTHER SERIOUS COMPETITION AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED.

Actually, he has to run to add some experience and maturity into the campaign. He is more than qualified to lead this country. The others? I don't think they have what it takes and if we run any of them we will lose the general election to any Re pub.

[BlueIris]

117. That's what I say.

Usually not quite that loudly, though.

[ourbluenation]

50. burning flames of hell fire - this thread is now lit up. n/t

hee hee

[zulchzulu]

51. John needs to give Carville and McCurry a "little talk"

If you've read "State of Denial" by Bob Woodward, you'll find on pages 343-346 where Carville ratted out on the Kerry campaign on Election Night to his lovely wife (who just so happened to be working with the Bush/Cheney campaign team) with what would have been Kerry's challenge in Ohio. Gee, Mr. Carville didn't "agree with it", so it turns out he'd rather give information to the ENEMY than shut his piehole and at least act like a Democrat.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio--perhaps up to 250,000 of them. "I don't agree with it," Carville said. "I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about."

Matalin went to report to Cheney.

What? the vice president asked. ...

"You'd better tell the president," Cheney told her. ...

"They're going to contest it," Matalin said.

"What does that mean?" the president asked. He had his note cards with talking points in hand, ready to go over to the Reagan Building to declare victory.

Matalin said somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican secretary of state in Ohio, who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes."

Kerry needs to make a point of NOT wanting to have Carville on his team. And you might think that maybe this story should be investigated just a tad further...

[wisteria]

97. I think Carville should be confronted about it and Matlin too.

And, why we are at it, how about Blackwell? Lets hear them tell what they know under oath. No one should let them get away with tampering with the election process.

[mtnsnake]

56. Wishful thinking. Kerry will not have a chance to subject us to that kind of misery again

Heck, he will have all he can do to stay neck and neck with Biden at 4%, and that will be if he's lucky.

[PresidentObama]

63. Thats your opinion.

This time in 2003, Dean was at 3% and Lieberman was leading. A year later, and it was vice versa. Times change, polls change.

Just because you don't think Kerry will have a chance DOESN'T make it true.

But you keep trusting your polls. I'd LOVE to rewind the clocks to 2003, and see if you were proclaiming Lieberman was the candidate because of the 'polls'

Ew. Lieberman :puke:

[mtnsnake]

65. "I'd LOVE to rewind the clocks to 2003"

Not me. I'd be too worried the time machine wouldn't start again and we'd have to relive the 2004 nightmare all over again. That would really suck.

Actually, I'm kind of surprised that Kerry is doing as well as he is, hanging tough in next to last place.

[PresidentObama]

72. Yeah 2004 nightmare.

Same as 2000. Democrat wins, and Bush gets the Presidency. Nightmare alright that we never got to see President Gore or President Kerry. Never fear, 2008 is almost here :)

And you keep relying on those polls. They didn't mean anything last time this early on, and they never have this early on. But history is nothing to you, so just keep going....in a year, we will talk.

[mtnsnake]

78. We shall see

The thing is, Kerry's poor polling numbers this year are indicative of the fact that he already ran and the people are making their displeasure known. It's not like he can come out of no where and surprise anyone again. At least that's the way I'm reading into it.

Anyway, it's true, a lot of things can change in a year, although a Kerry Democratic win in 2008 would be nothing short of a miracle. :)

[PresidentObama]

80. Do you believe in miracles?

If so, watch 2-0-0-8. Nomination or no nomination, Kerry will be a factor.

Don't count him out. You can say in your opinion he's done for, but you CAN'T fully count him out my friend.

As far as the poll numbers, it's so early. Obama and Hillary are riding their peaks, and we'll see how long that lasts. People haven't heard anything of substance from the candidates yet, and once they do these numbers will change.

[mtnsnake]

90. Let me put it this way

If John Kerry wins the Democratic nod in 2008, not only will I believe in miracles, but I might even become religious.

[wisteria]

103. Poll numbers mean nothing now. Those polling hight are receiving great PR.

No one is really paying attention. People are voting who they just heard about in the news. Besides that, Kerry works best under pressure. Imagine a comeback from behind story.

[Firespirit]

134. The poor polling numbers this year

are indicative of the fact that, because he hasn't been plastering himself all over TV and has not made an announcement yet, many people are assuming that means he is not running, and are voting their second choices in the polls.

Not too long ago, there were four candidates (minus Gore) who polled double digits: Hillary, Obama, Edwards, and Kerry. Kerry may or may not have slipped since then -- one poll doesn't make a trend -- but if he has, it's because people think he's out.

[cadmium]

73. Just where he was at one point in

2003. He keeps bouncing back. When he had cancer at a low point in the polls the insiders wrote him off. The liberal media tries to undermine him, the conservative media tries to crucify him, and the blogosphere swamps threads that mention his name with "go away" messages. He keeps coming back because the truth is that he is far more formidable than the pundits would like to believe. Good for him.

[mtnsnake]

75. "Timex Kerry"

He takes a licking and keeps on ticking!

Is that what you're trying to say? ;)

[cadmium]

79. gotta hand it too him.

screw the pundits.

[PresidentObama]

76. Kerry MAY be down.

But he's not out. He'll rise again, and I assure you even if he doesn't get the nomination he'll put up a bigger fight then people like this mtnsnake like to say.

If I believed in polls, especially this early on, I'd own a JOE LIEBERMAN 2004 t-shirt instead of my proudly over worn John Kerry for President tee from 2004

:patriot: I'm waiting for the day to unpack that shirt, and the Kerry buttons. Run John, run.

Let them count you out. The media, the polls, the RW. They always have. And you've risen above. From defeating Weld to defeating cancer to defeating Bush, you ARE my President sir.

[karynnj]

91. You said it

He has been through more and has kept on fighting with dignity and integrity.

Imagine a President with his integrity, concern, and solid good positions on the issues.

[wisteria]

101. Kerry does well when under pressure and he has a lot more appeal and a following than Biden.

But, nice try. Polls are meaningless now, especially when they are manipulated by the media and phony good press.

[Firespirit]

133. Funny...

I was here in 2004.

I don't remember DU being "miserable" about the campaign. There were some disgruntled supporters of other candidates after the primaries, but following the convention, DU became very excited and exuberant about the ticket. There were posts every day about his history, and how he was the complete package. It was a fun place to be.

It's truly astonishing how quickly history gets rewritten on the Internet.

[Blue_In_AK]

57. Kerry is still my favorite...

...with Al Gore second. I wish one or both would get into this thing, because I'm not impressed by any of the candidates who have declared so far, other than the fact that they're dems and any of them would be better than **.

[PresidentObama]

61. I second that.

Gore and Kerry both in the race would be exciting, and would change the race completely.

:patriot:

[EndElectoral]

59. I like Kerry, but...I voted for before i voted against, and the swift boating, Time to move on

[wisteria]

102. Oh, so terrible old nonsense from 04. It was the war that lost him the election- period.

All the other stuff is stupid or been proven to be lies. We have moved on, too 08.

[against all enemies]

60. Please can we move on to a candidate that can win? Thank you.

[PresidentObama]

62. Kerry can win.

And I'm pretty sure a lot of us would argue he did win.

Al Gore 'lost' should we not run him again?

I hope not :(

I like John and Al too much to count them out.

:popcorn: Wait and see my friends.

[wisteria]

104. Exactly. Kerry can win. I think his chances are better this time. n/t

[fujiyama]

64. I think most have already

He can count himself "in"...but still, he's not going anywere this time.

Good man and statesman but not the greatest politician.

[wisteria]

106. People are not interested in just politicans this time, they want a statesman and a dedicated leader

of the people. The debates with him, will be taken to a new level.

[wisteria]

66. I will bet on him running. He knows this country needs real change! n/t

[Dr Fate]

67. A Kerry with both guns blazing could win.

Dammit- if he could just go with his gut, I really think he could win it- but that goes for all good men who think they need to listen to all these no-where media advisors & loser "strategists."

The main problem with any "blazing gun" DEM is that the mealy-mouth DLC types will always refuse to back them up an leave them twisting in the wind-leaving the media to rport "Democrats are divided on blah blah blah..." I think this one reason why he refused to counter-attack his attackers as much as he should have.

He has the opportunity to be strong on major issues while the DLC contenders are holding their fingers in the wind and trying to figure out what Wolf Blitzer or cheesey focus groups as opposed to actual voters wants them to say.

I think America is ready for a smart man who speaks from the heart and who does not think or act like a used car salesman- is it Kerry?

It is up to him, not us.

[politicasista]

69. Nice post, Doc n/t

[sampsonblk]

68. Non-starter

No way. No how.

[Joey Liberal]

71. I like Kerry, but he has no chance n/t

[_dynamicdems]

74. Oh he has a lot of support out in the trenches where it counts.

I've been talking to people who are not politically involved but who will vote once every four years. They all like Kerry and feel that 2004 was a huge mistake, one that they'd like to see righted. Contrary to the feeling around DU, nobody I've talked to offline blames Kerry for the 2004 loss. In fact, many of them blame themselves for voting for Bush or they blame their "stupid neighbors" for voting for Bush.

I've still yet to meet one person who likes Hillary (most say something I'd rather not repeat when her name is mentioned) or who knows who the Hell Barack Obama is. I asked a woman at work what she thought of Barack Obama and she asked what country he was the leader of!

As for John Edwards, most of the people I talk to think he's part of the reason Kerry lost in 2004. The general feeling seems to be that he's a nice guy but a political lightweight who didn't even carry his own state last time. (Not my opinion, just what I hear from regular people I engage in talk.)

I also think Kerry's bumps in the road are behind him. Sure, his every word will be analyzed for a slip of the tongue like the joke, but that's actually a good sign because it means they haven't got anything else on him. Can anyone say the same about Obama or Clinton?

Time will tell. It should be interesting. I'm expecting a LOT of mud from the wingers. The ONLY one who has weathered such concerted personal attacks without being decimated is Kerry. He's been there and done that. As for the others: just wait and watch. Let's see how Obama holds up or which skeletons emerge from Hillary's closet.

Kerry is the ONLY Democrat with a shot of winning the general election. He's been through it and he's taken hits, but he always gets back up. Can anyone honestly say that about any of the others?

[zulchzulu]

105. Good words...

I agree with your assessment.

The Swiftboaters have used all their weapons and are completely debunked. Sure, Faux Snooze might pull out the conmen for their base, but then again, they'll also be attacking McCain too.

Once the word is out about Conyers' admiration about the Kerry/Edwards legal efforts in Ohio as well as the turncoat tactics by Carville and McCurry on Election night by giving information about the Kerry campaign to the Bush-Cheney team, people who think he "gave up too early" will see that is nonsense.

Those who protest Kerry's possible run in 2008 are merely threatened by his candidacy...his record, experience, intellect and proven leadership over 30 years far overshadows those that have put their hat in the ring, inho.

[Apollo11]

123. With respect, I strongly disagree

"Kerry is the ONLY Democrat with a shot of winning the general election."

What about Wes Clark, John Edwards, Al Gore?

In Gore We Trust :)
www.algore.com
www.algore.org
www.draftgore.com
www.draftgore2008.org
www.patriotsforgore.com

[PresidentObama]

124. I think Kerry, Gore and Clark could.

I question John Edwards wear-with-all.

[_dynamicdems]

137. It's not very likely that Al Gore will consider running.

Gore would have a terrific shot of winning the general election. But you can't draft the man if he don't want to run. Personally, I think he's happy doing what he's doing now. I've never thought of Gore as someone who liked politics. He entered politics to change things, not because he ever really wanted to be President of the United States. That's just my opinion. I've followed Gore for many, many years and think highly of him. I've got "Earth in the Balance" on tape and I listen to it every now and then for inspiration. Time will tell, but I wouldn't hold my breath for Al Gore to run in 2008.

As for Clark and Edwards, they both have admirable qualities but I don't think either has what it takes to win the presidency. IMO either one would get creamed in the general election. Remember: both Clark and Edwards lost to Kerry in 2004. And Edwards didn't even bring in his own state in the general election. Sure they should have a second chance. I won't be like some of the anti-Kerry voices here and say that Clark and Edwards shouldn't run because they have already had their chance. But if you think about it: they did have their chance and Kerry kicked both their asses. Just sayin'.

[rhombus]

77. Is John Kerry going to go hunting again?

The moment I saw him pretend hunting in Ohio in '04 I knew we had a really weak, manufactured candidate as our nominee. No wonder we lost.

Never again.

[cadmium]

83. Sounds like a superficial basis for a vote, but it' your right.

It looked like a lousy move by his campaign, but that doesn't make hima poor candidate. Was it in Ohio? Maybe, I thought it was in Wisconsin or Michigan.

Gore sighed. Carter lost his briefing book. Dean screamed. Edwards let Cheney beat him up in a debate.

Clinton did put down Sista Soldja---which was probably overall helpful but I think he had Perot helping him out doing the in the trenches put downs of Bush. Kerry and Gore didn't have anyone poten attacking Bush from the conservative ranks.

I admit Kerry will lose some fickle voters with a campaigning mis-step or two. There are plenty of fickle voters out there--hopefully fewer than 2004 He isstill the best of the bunch--goose or no goose.

[jgraz]

89. Kerry's hunting trip rang sadly true

It showed yet another example of Kerry as a candidate who wasn't comfortable in his own skin -- someone who was unable to trust his own instincts and personal beliefs. It made me question what kind of a president he'd be: would he stay true to the values he espoused in the Senate, or would he pander to anyone he thought could assure him of a second term?

It goes much deeper than a superficial distinction. If anything, it was Kerry who chose the superficial route. He showed clearly that he didn't trust the voters to make a decision based on real issues. Or perhaps he didn't trust his own campaigning ability to make an effective case without silly displays of faux-manhood.

[karynnj]

96. Kerry has pandered less than anyone in office over 20 years

How does going hunting - which he really does - make him a pander.

He was tyhe only Senator willing to investigate teh Contra drug running.

He pursued BCCI for 5 years - standing alone against the entire Senate and the last Democratic President. All because he thought a terrorist/ drug laundering bank shouldn't have its tentacles in the US government

Who fought Alito?

Who was willing to incure the anger of Reid and the DLC leaders of the party because he could "not be a Senator in good standing and not speak out when the policy was wrong" on Iraq. Was that pandering? He knew he would be slammed by the RW and the Democrats.

[jgraz]

111. Not sure if "pander" is the right word

He frequently seemed uncomfortable and wrong-footed. Of course, he was running against someone who seemed wrong-footed whenever he tried to string a sentence together. If Kerry turns in the same performance against someone like Mike Huckabee or Chuck Hagel, he'll get his ass handed to him.

[karynnj]

128. He rarely seemed uncomfortable to me

- not in the debates - primary or general election
- not in huge rallies (seen ob CSPAN)
- not on talk shows
- not in small townhalls (watch the 2 NH Kerry events or the Iowa one from last year on road to the WH.)

The hunting you mention was obviously suggested to emphasize that he is a hunter. Clearly, it was not something he would do just for fun in the last month of the campaign. He was a real hunter, but it was a fake setup. (I would bet he more tyically hunts in blue jeans.)

In retrospect, maybe he should have appeared at some nature/hunting event to speak about both hunting and nature/environment (he spoke in his stump speech of not being able to eat fish caught in streams in 35 states). As, in other issue events he could have been with people he actually hunted with. Alternatively, they could have gotten some first hand stories in appropriate magazines.

After the election, someone posted a little local article from somewhere out west of a weekend hunting trip. From memory, Kerry and about 3 friends went- including one of his swiftboat crew - went to a cabin in an area where there was hunting. It spoke of watching football, cooking and eating steaks the night before. Then getting up early in the morning and shot birds - that they cleaned and that were taken home by all of them for eating. Kerry took his dog too. That type of story would be good and it was real. (and to me a person who things hunting is disgusting - this is a refreshingly down to earth counterpart to Cheney's being driven to a place where hundreds of birds were released.)

I've seen Kerry give 2 speeches, where he had the crowd on fire. He was incredible. I also saw him at a rally in support of Corzine. He was very much at ease with the crowd and very quick witted when people were commenting on things. I also saw him at a smaller event. He was completely himself and very much at ease in all these setting. In fact, I was amazed at his ability to actually speak, listen, and connect to people.

[jgraz]

129. I saw Kerry speak at the Madison, WI rally

He was pretty good, but not in the same league as someone like Howard Dean, Russ Feingold or even Gore with a full head of steam. That 's the core of the argument: I think there are many people who would have done just as well or better against this failed president.

I also think that we'll need a much stronger candidate in 2008 since we won't be directly comparing them to Chimpy this time around.

[Firespirit]

135. I don't agree

Bush is definitely a failed president now, but in 2004 he still had a reasonable amount of popular support. The blogosphere can often be unable to see outside the Internet bubble, and this is one example of it. We loathed Bush in 2004, but America as a whole did not. On Election Day itself, he carried a 51% approval rating -- which ended up being his nationwide vote percentage. The war wasn't doing so hot, but America as a whole had not given up on it as we have now.

The Anyone But Bush people, whose sole issue was "Bush Sux," couldn't persuade those last few people to disapprove enough of his performance to vote against him. And those same people failed to make the case that Kerry was better than Bush. When a group of people approves of a politician's performance, the only way to get them to vote against him/her is to present a better alternative. The ABBers didn't tout Kerry's own advantages, focusing instead on "Bush Sux."

The utterly incompetent national party infrastructure (note: not the campaign itself) didn't help matters.

2008 will not be a referendum on Bush itself. If McCain gets the Repuke nomination, it'll be about whether we want a continuation of his policies, or a new direction.

[cadmium]

121. That is one of the things I like about him. He is at his best

when he is not beholden to a consultant based machine. The politicians that I like the least are the ones who can successfully fake sincerity like Bush. With these political method actors you never know what you are gettting. Kerry and Gore are lousy at faking it and that is why I trust them the most.

[mtnsnake]

92. All his goofy hunting trip did was insult the intelligence of the swing voters

who he was trying to dupe. All they did was roll their eyes at him.

[wisteria]

107. What? As much as I hate it, Sen. Kerry is a hunter- and a good one! n/t

[zulchzulu]

110. Um...Kerry IS a hunter...not a "pretend hunter"

And yes, he does wind surf too... plays hockey, plays guitar...

In case you were wondering about the hunting stuff, it was to have the right-wing tinfoil hatters have a look at someone who owns guns and knows how to use them...not one that they painted would take all their guns away.

It's called campaigning. Yunno, politics...

[jgraz]

113. Yep, it was politics -- bad politics

Anyone who would have been swayed by that display of animal-killing bravado was lost to Kerry early on. He only succeeded in pouring cold water on his base of support.

[zulchzulu]

114. "display of animal-killing bravado"....c'mon, pal...

You have a problem with hunting? Have the Bambi Complex?

Do you hate native Americans too? They hunt.

[jgraz]

115. not even close to my point

but of course you knew that

[catgirl]

158. Hunting was not an issue

He played right into the hands of the repugs. It was
a great way to make him waste a lot of time, look
like a fool, and turn off a lot of people. He certainly
lost more than he gained with that stunt.

He should have been highlighting important issues.

[LittleClarkie]

112. Not sure what you mean. He was demonstrating in a photo op,

which by their very nature are manufactured, something that he does actually do. I know that he and Jim Wasser go out on a regular basis.

And I disagree that he was weak. Far from it. He might not have presented himself well. But he was not manufactured, and not weak.

Funny though, I spend half my time here defending him to people who think he won and didn't fight, and then to people who think he lost and should go away.

Confusing, it is.

[Mass]

119. Given that he hunts on a regular basis, you fall for the MSM smears,.

LOL, do not expect them to be different for any other candidates.

So, do not support him, but do not fall again for the same media that declared him dead in 2003.

[catgirl]

157. That turned me off too

but I still volunteered for his campaign & he
would have been a great president. Al Gore
is the right candidate this time.

[salin]

84. One of Kerry's advantage (in opposition to some DUers view of

conventional wisdom) is that there are a heck of a lot of Americans that have a very strong sense of "buyer's remorse" - that translates into the "I should have voted for Kerry..." - which translates into an opening mind per reconsidering not just "any democratic candidate" - but John Kerry specifically. I would be very interested in reading polling data per 'buyers remorse' voters (those who voted for Bush - but now regret it) and who they would now support. I would think that the positives towards Kerry *now* among that group would be rather interesting. Granted all that I say is speculative and I have never heard of a poll, such as I have suggested let alone read "results" (that is, don't ask me for proof - I don't have any - it is just a sneaking suspicion.)

[karynnj]

98. I would guess it may go both ways

Some who know they made a huge mistake, may avoid guilt by saying Kerry was worse.

I would love to see a swing state only vote. That would be interesting as strategically, the swing states really saw a lot of him. My guess is that relative to other Democrats, Kerry may do better in the swing states than in the red or blue where he wasn't shown and the media was less good on coverage than in the past.

[salin]

118. that would be interesting polling

good point.

[wisteria]

109. Good points. I hadn't even considered buyers remorse. n/t

[saltpoint]

87. A lot of folks counted him out in Iowa in 04 and he did just fine.

The press made a repeated point to describe the hopelessness of the Kerry campaign as early as a month or two before the Iowa caucus. Kerry's campaign in Iowa was a masterpiece. You can ask some of the people who showed up for his town meetings in some of the northwestern Iowa towns. On very cold nights some very alert people walked out of those meetings sufficiently impressed to vote for the man. Kerry won with around 38% of the Iowa caucus vote. The press who had written him off had to change their tune fast.

I really think, after 8 years of deceit, mental sloth, and spiritual decimation of the American ideal, that a change toward heightened foreign policy emphasis and public service-as-citizenship would be genuinely welcome, even as it is desperately needed.

Kerry meets those criteria handsomely.

He'd have my vote in an instant.

[Fovea]

88. I just don't see it happening.

The willingness to let someone that reticent to counter attack be our 08 candidate is just not there, IMO.

[wisteria]

108. Oh, he counter attacks and he has has the fire to say what needs to be said.

Senator Kerry may have been restrained in 04, admittedly, but he will never ever allow himself to not follow his instincts again. He has a true direction, he is dedicated and he knows what he wants to accomplish.

[Apollo11]

125. John Kerry in his own words ...

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary --to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

"I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it."

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

[PresidentObama]

126. Those last two quotes...

Are we going to post every quote where someone messes up to discredit them?

This is stupid. Just plain STUPID. Democrats are better then this. The last quote you KNOW was a mess up, and you KNOW what he meant. So don't give me that crap.

This is getting old, and more pathetic.

P.S. Obama's middle name is Hussein, and Gore invented the internet. Pass it on :sarcasm:

[Mass]

127. Thank you for your insight.

Hopefully, your candidate never said something that did not come out poorly!

[wisteria]

143. So, the first two refer to senate voting and the last was misquoted and a press release ignored.

FYI, it was "Get US stuck in Iraq, just like President Bush. Now, this is an inocent enough statement until someone delibertly get a hold of it and omits parts of it to fit their purpose. Oh, and this type of spin can happen to any of the candidates that are being open and genuine. Just watch the way Obama and Hillary are so very, very caucious with their words. The are scared now, just wait until things heat up.
So, a couple of comments twisted and polticicized compared next to all the wonderful things he has said and done. These three little examples just don't measure up to all the good.

[LittleClarkie]

146. John Kerry in his own words...

"Though this country will continue to face danger from religious extremists, homegrown
anarchists, and perennial lone-bomber types, they are all in some sense “old news.” The
terrorists of tomorrow will be better armed and organized. It will take only one mega
terrorist event in any of the great cities of the world to change the world in a single day.
As we shall see, that event could be nuclear or could just as easily occur on the Internet,
but whether our sense of secure well-being ends with a bang or a whimper will not be
the cause of the debate"

[Joe Chi Minh]

136. I reckon Kerry's critics here are more than a little acquainted with being

compeletely wrong in all matters political.

Just don't expect them to give up peddling their anti-Kerry garbage! They're like one of those old scratched 78s.

[wisteria]

142. Scratched 78s, lol n/t

[Taverner]

138. In a meritocracy, Kerry would have been Prez a long time ago

But this ain't no meritocracy

[wisteria]

141. Very kind words. We still have time to undo a wrong and straighten this country out. n/t

[Taverner]

151. Thing is, I don't think the American public would ever elect him

The only reason he had a chance in 04 was because Bush was so bad. His fatal flaw is underestimating the stupidity of the American public.

Basically even though he's the most qualified, doesn't mean he will win...

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Imagevision]

144. Kerry & Gore..been there, done that - time to move on with fresh talent!

[catgirl]

159. Gore Is Fresh Talent

He stays fresh because he has vision and makes a difference.
Who can beat his effectiveness? No one. I'll be devastated if
he doesn't run because he is the best candidate and no one
comes close to him...not Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Kerry...

[k_jerome]

145. Kerry knows he has no chance in '08...

and can do good work in the Senate. He will not run.

[wisteria]

150. I think he has as good of a chance as anyone else running and would add a real

challange to some who think it is there for the taking without a real fight.
I think he has as good a chance if not better with the American people as he did last time. Kerry gets better and better the more you see him and hear what he has to say, and he is even better than the 04 model.

[k_jerome]

152. we shall see...

he definitely has the right to try.

[cleveramerican]

147. He is roadkill if he gets in

and too self-absorbed to realize it.

[BlueIris]

148. And yet, he still wants the job!

You're blind if you think he doesn't know the risks. That's the other reason I love him.

[wisteria]

149. Kerry is right for this country at this time. We need real leadership and honest.

I don't think it will be as tough for him to win this time.The attitudes of the American public have changed. They want someone who knows what they are doing and has experience. He has already been vetted. Not much left of the RW smears to smack him with. He has been right on all those things he discussed in 04. People realize that he was the better choice in 04-now. He gets better and better the more you get to know him and realize what a great leader he is. And, IMO, he is a far better candidate than the others who are running now.

[arewenotdemo]

154. I used to be a faith-based Kerry voter.

I was with him all the way...right up until his "success in Iraq" vict...er, concession speech.

When it finally became clear to me that he was unwilling or unable to speak the truth about Iraq and the "insurgency" there, he lost me for good.

That said, I'd take him over Clinton, in a heartbeat.

[More Than A Feeling]

155. *shrug* I haven't counted anyone who is (or most likely is) running.

My vote is still up for grabs.