24 vs Reality

[Vyan]

This past Tuesday Keith Olbermann asked the question...

Is "24" propaganda? Is it fear-mongering? Or is it a program-length commercial for one political party?

The simple answer to that is "Does a Duck go 'Quack'?"

But in all seriousness, I don't think Olbermann's question goes far enough - a better question would be "Is Everything on Fox TV propaganda, fear-mongering and an commercial for the GOP?"

And specifically on "24" how does it compare with other terrorism shows such as Showtime's "Sleeper Cell"?

Olbermann presented his question to documentarian Robert Greenwald, Director and Producer of OutFoxed: Rupert Murdock's War on Journalism

"Outfoxed" examines how media empires, led by Rupert Murdoch's Fox News, have been running a "race to the bottom" in television news. This film provides an in-depth look at Fox News and the dangers of ever-enlarging corporations taking control of the public's right to know.

The film explores Murdoch's burgeoning kingdom and the impact on society when a broad swath of media is controlled by one person.

This documentary also reveals the secrets of Former Fox news producers, reporters, bookers and writers who expose what it's like to work for Fox News. These former Fox employees talk about how they were forced to push a "right-wing" point of view or risk their jobs. Some have even chosen to remain anonymous in order to protect their current livelihoods. As one employee said "There's no sense of integrity as far as having a line that can't be crossed."

In his documentary Greenwald describes an internal cultural within Fox News that has a quite overt "Cultural War" perspective. On air hosts who manage to slide anti-Liberal anti-Democrat jibes into their commentary receive an "atta-boy" of accolades and shoulder pats - those who break ranks and dare to criticize the Bush Administration on anything other than not being Right-Wing Enough are discouraged and sometimes punished.

Outfoxed even gained access to internal memos by high-level Fox News exec John Moody who apparently would issue a "Message of the Day" down through-out the entire company in order to "set the stage" on how the news would be presented.

The following is a sample of reporting instructions issued by Moody to the FOX News staff.

Moody on the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal:

he pictures from Abu Graeb prison are disturbing. They have rightly provoked outrage. Today we have a picture -- aired on Al Arabiya -- of an American hostage being held with a scarf over his eyes, clearly against his will. Who's outraged on his behalf? It is important that we keep the Abu Graeb (sic) situation in perspective (5/5/04).

Moody on the war in Iraq:

As is often the case, the real news is (sic) Iraq is being obscured by temporary tragedy. The creation of a defense ministry, which will be run by Iraqis, is a major step forward in the country's redevelopment. Let's look at that, as well as the deaths of a US soldier in a roadside bombing (3/25/04).

Into Fallujah: It's called Operation Vigilant Resolve and it began Monday morning (NY time) with the US and Iraqi military surrounding Fallujah. We will cover this hour by hour today, explaining repeatedly why it is happening. It won't be long before some people start to decry the use of "excessive force". We won't be among that group (4/4/04).

A more recent example of this type of dictate from on high of Fox Execs was the revelation that following the November 7th victory by Democrats in the House and Senate - Fox News decided they needed to finds some Happy Insurgents.

The elections and Rumsfelds resignation are a major event, but not the end of the world. The War on Terror goes on without interruption. Jennifer Griffin sent in info on Hamas calls for attacks on American interests. And lets be on the lookout for any statements from Iraqi insurgents, who must be thrilled at the prospect of a Dem controlled congress

What we have to realize is that every report - every second - on Fox News is presented in a way that supports the Right-Wing Agenda. From their incessent hyping of White Chicks in Peril ™ to O'Reilly's "We're looking out for the folks" spiel. It's all Naked Right-Wing Propaganda.

And so in major portions is Fox TV.

Before getting into this it has to be pointed out that a great many things going into the creation of each individual show as well as an entire network of shows - many shows can exist on a Network which are independant of the overall editorial view of it's owners simply because of their potential profitabiilty. How true that is of Fox TV remains an open question.

Although the network originally began with a leftward progressiveness that defied the dullness of the big three networks by putting shows that the others had specifically rejected or would never air such as "the Simpsons", "In Living Colour", "The X-Files" and the incredibly quirky "Get A Life" (featuring Chris Elliot). They eventually began a rightward shift which is best displayed by thier transition from consciencious urban shows like "ROC", "South Central" and "Frank's Place" to "Married with Children" (whose supervising producer Ralph Farquar was black man that had essentially taken the tragic black family from his show "South Central" and made their life a comedy by placing them in white skin and moving them from L.A. to the Chicago suburbs). That show which debut in 1987 and lasted for 11 seasons began Fox's eventually devolution into full-on Trash TV, pandering to the fears of middle America while exploiting thier own narcissist self-congratulation at being trashy. That trashy rightward slide was further edged along by the longest running Reality Show in History - "COPS" (which debuted in 1989 and continues today).

Just how many drunken street-walkers can you watch begin slammed into the concrete face-first does it take before you become completely desensitized to the violence of it?

Going even further than "Married", "COPS" showed poor people - both black and white - at their absolute worst moments in life while showing police , on whom the show depends for it's survival, in the very best possible light. As such the show has practically realized the neo-fascist wet-dreams of 50's and 60' s LAPD police chief Bill Parker, who during his tenure managed two full and distinct police divisions to surveil and blackmail hollywood, as well as directly manipulate the media's presentation of his department. For example in exchange for providing producer Jack Webb with "technical advisors" Parker's department demanded and received script approval over his bevy of freshly scrubbed police shows such as "Dragnet", "Adam-12" and "Emergency". Through Webb's shows, Parker was able to completely white-wash the brutal reality of the L.A.P.D., who while these shows were on their air frequently beat and shot unarmed black citizens sparking the Watts Riots which ultimately ended Parker's career.

Meanwhile back on current day FOX you can see the same sadistic voyerism of "COPS" in "American Idol" where half the draw is watching talentless freaks and geeks embarriss themselves - and the other half is continuing to believe in pipe-dream that there but for the grace of Simon Cowell could go you or I into the stratosphere of Super-stardom.

Add to all the above "America's Greatest Police Chases", "America's Most Wanted", the Jackass and Youtube precusor "America's Funniest Home Videos" (aka Take it in the Nuts) and of course trash-news shows such as "Inside Edition" (a direct pre-cursor to Fox News which not so coincidentally featured Bill O'Reilly as an anchor) and Fox's new fascist/trashy direction was set.

"

Which finally brings us to "24" which has become one of Fox's biggest hits. The show was originally fairly unique, begining as it did before 9-11, the original villians were highly mysterious. Who could possibly hate American Counterrorism agent Jack Bauer enough to kidnap his family in order manipulate him into killing then Presidential hopeful Senator Palmer?

The answer at the time was Dennis Hopper, playing a Bosnian terrorist who wished revenge on Jack for being involved in a raid that killed members of his family during the Croat-Serb War and on Senator Palmer for having approved the raid.

Using fast paced action and incessant cliff-hangerism of the old time Penelope in Peril film strip series - "24" managed to hide such a card-board flimsy premise behind chase scenes, shoot-outs and constant (often insane) plot twists.

Reality Check

The facts and reality of our involvment in ending the Bosnia War completely belay the "24" rationale. U.S. forces were only 1/3 of those sent to Bosnia-Herzgovenia to end the ethnic-cleansing and religious strife which had overtaken the area after the withdrawal of Soviet control of the former Yugoslavia. We the U.S in fact - along with equal parts European and Russian troops - were the heroes in that scenario after President Clinton used Diplomacy and persuasian - and only violence as a last resort - to negotiate and implement the Dayton Peace Accords.

Not one single American Soldier was killed in this conflict.

Murderous criminals such as Slobadon Milosovec (whom Hopper's character was clearly emulating) were held accountable by International Courts and eventually died in prison.

Yet even in this early version of the show some right-wing thinking was already evident when Jack Bauer literally stumbles upon the Super-Secret Military Prison Facility which had been holding Hopper on U.S. Soil. (A sequence which in all likelyhood, considering how many neo-cons claim this as their "favorite show" may been may have been at least in part an inspiration for Bush administration own implementation of Secret Prisons).

Personally I felt the show completely jumped-the-shark of credibility half-way through Season One when Jack's wife spontaneous contracted amnesia after seeing the car containing their daughter fall over a cliff and disappear.

Since those early days where Jack has been driven by the constantly tickling clock to commit acts of extreme violence, including - but not limited to - multiple acts of murder, torture, armed robbery and kidnapping or numerous occasions.

Jack Bauer can be nearly always expected to resort to the most brutal and direct means when neccesary, all those pesky rules (i.e laws) are often tossed out of the window as soon as Jack-the-man arrives on the scene. This is considered such a crucial element to that show that the current fan poll question on the 24 Home Page is...

"What other terrorist body part do you think Jack could easily bite off?"

At the end of last season he staged a hijacking of Marine One in collusion with the First Lady in order to kidnap then-President Logan and trick him into admitting his complicity in the murder of his predecessor President Palmer in order to cover up his aidding and abetting terrorists gaining access to toxic nerve gas. This was done in order to support Logan's wish to concoct a false "WMD" charge against oil rich states as a pre-cursor to invasion. (Hmm - kinda familiar - but ultimately Re-f-inging-diculous!)

Even in this scenario the batty plans of this President are succesfully thwarted - which further suggests that no President could ever get away with such a thing, right?

Besides the fact that torture doesn't work the final nail in the "24"'s wingnut coffin is the news that the shows co-creator Joel Surnow has teamed with FOX News to develop a right-wing version of the Daily Show.

"The way I look at it, almost every comedy show or satire show I see uses the same talking points against George W. Bush and Dick Cheney," "24″ co-creator Joel Surnow said. "The other side hasn’t been skewered in a fair and balanced way." November 20, 2006

Although there have been several attempts in recent years by various progressive film makers to present a more "balanced" view of anti-terrorism and America middle-east involvement the results have been decidedly mixed. George Clooney's Syriana, which showed the plight of a loyal but disavowed ex-CIA assasin in the midst of international forces was largely a muddle.

Stephen Speilberg's "Munich", which attempted to chronical Israeli intelligences attempts to assisinate those responsible for the murder of their athletes at the 1972 Olympics was just as problematic as it attempted to moralize the actions of the Mosaad agents far too quickly and neatly.

Showtime's Sleeper Cell however, is an entirely different animal. Starring Michael Ealy as an African-American muslim FBI agent Darwin al-Hakim (a Sunni) who voluanteers to spend 18 months in prison in order to infiltrate an al-Qaeda cell in Los Angeles. Much of the show frequently discusses and highlights the very real debate within Islam as to the application of violence, and splits between those who advocate peaceful resolution of disputes and those who do not. It has become one of the most faithful representations of the muslim faith on tv including fairly heady debates between Sunni and Shi'a Muslims.

In the first episode Darwin directly faces anti-muslim prejudice in the wake of 9-11 by coming to the rescue of a pair of Indian Sikh's, who are mistaken by a set of street thugs for Arabs due to their head-wraps.

Also in that same episode , which aired before the reality of the Bush's domestic eavesdropping program was revealed, the Cell's leader Fariq al-Farik (played brilliantly Oded Fehr) learns that one member has phoned home to Egypt to brag about their upcoming attack and immediately has that member executed (via stoning) for violating protocol just in case the NSA might have been listening (which on the show they weren't because without a warrant that's illegal - but as we know in reality they have been, warrant or not).

This is not to say that Darwin doesn't cross some fuzzy Jack Beaur-ish lines, he intervenes in the middle of the stoning to shoot the intended victim in the head and end his pain quickly. This move nearly ends his investigation once it's discovered - and at the end when the cell is ultimately brought down his actions are cited as potential compromising any possible criminal case - therefore the one surviving terrorist who is apprehended (Farik) is relegated to military custody where he is interrogated by the CIA and Military Intelligence who beat him and attempt various psychological tricks to gain his cooperation - none of which are successful. Eventually as a wanted Saudi he is extradited and then severely tortured including shoving a peice white-hot steel into his urethra while the CIA looks on - and he still doesn't talk.

Reality Check

The FBI highest ranking Arab-American agent, Bassam Yousef, has recently sued for discrimination after being taken off undercover work and placed on desk duty.

WASHINGTON - Bassem Youssef is the FBI's highest-ranking Arab-American agent. He's fluent in Arabic, ran the FBI's offices in Saudi Arabia and is a terrorism expert. In fact, Youssef's undercover work helping to infiltrate the terror organization of the so-called "blind sheik," Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman, earned him the intelligence community's most-prestigious award, the National Intelligence Distinguished Service Medal.

But now, for the first time, Youssef is speaking out against the agency he loves.

"I don't believe that the FBI's doing everything it can to combat terrorism," the 18-year FBI veteran tells NBC News.

Though he's one of only six FBI agents with advanced Arabic skills, Youssef believes that, since 9/11, the FBI has blocked him from playing a significant role in the war on terror. He claims discrimination, and sued the FBI in 2003.

"To be totally set aside, blackballed since 9/11, makes absolutely no sense," he says.

Youssef's experience is not all isolated according to the Washington Post.

Five years after Arab terrorists attacked the United States, only 33 FBI agents have even a limited proficiency in Arabic, and none of them work in the sections of the bureau that coordinate investigations of international terrorism, according to new FBI statistics.

Counting agents who know only a handful of Arabic words -- including those who scored zero on a standard proficiency test -- just 1 percent of the FBI's 12,000 agents have any familiarity with the language, the statistics show.

The numbers reflect the FBI's continued struggle to attract employees who speak Arabic, Urdu, Farsi and other languages of the Middle East and South Asia, even as the bureau leads a fight against terrorist groups primarily centered in those parts of the world. The same challenge is facing the CIA and other agencies as the government competes with the private sector for a limited number of applicants with foreign-language proficiency, according to U.S. officials and experts.

In the original mini-series sequel Sleeper Cell:American Terror Darwin is actually faced with bigotry himself by other members of the bureau and even his Case Agent who suspects his loyalties simply because he's a muslim (echoing Youssef), while battling this he has to delicately balance the needs of maintaining his cover and appearing o help the terror plot proceed so that he can work his way further into the network. Information is compartmentalized under "Operational Security", even Cell leaders don't know the ultimate target or exact method to be used in the attack until neccesary, therefore capturing minor members and trying to "beat the truth out of them" is literally pointless. They don't know anything - yet. (Which according to the 9-11 Commission Report is exactly how the trade center and pentagon attack cells operated).

In one direct contrast to 24's phony Bosnia bad guys, Sleeper Cell featured one Bosnia cell member who eventually went home ten years after his original indoctrination into the Mujahadeen during the violent ethnic-cleanings of the Bosnia War to find that his homeland has now become a realitive "paradise of peace" (Thank's the President Clinton as I mention above). As a result he begins to renounce his membership in al-Qaeda, until he's spotted and kidnapped by other members of the brotherhood intent on dragging him back into the fold.

Sleeper Cell isn't perfect, and being on Showtime it can be extremely violent and filled with sexual content (including a n explicit gay relationship with one Iraqi cell member) - but with the help of Islamic Technical Advisor Omar Haroon and Military advisors Mir Bahmanyar and James Dever it's tried hard to put realism on the screen, not neccesarily pander to any particular ideological viewpoint.

Some have argued that 24 is "just a TV Show" and that is demonstrably true, however the scenarios shown on this show have had an impact on the national discourse involving issues of national security.

Cal Thomas

If the Army nabs a person it suspects of knowing the location of a nuclear bomb about to wipe out an American city, would the interrogators and their military and civilian superiors refuse to use torture to squeeze the information out of the captive?

That was precisely the scenario on "24." Agent Jack Bauer rightly chose the greater good -- saving millions of lives -- over the niceties imposed by those whose manual seems inspired by "The Amy Vanderbilt Complete Book of Etiquette."

Melanie Morgan.

SUSSMAN: And of course, right off the bat, they talk about the very issues that we've already discussed, with the exception of one -- my advocating the use of torture on the battlefield, which was -- actually, it was a bit. Lee, this particular bit that's gotten me in all sorts of hot water in the blogosphere was actually a scripted bit entitled "Jack Bauer in Baghdad."

ALL:

SUSSMAN: OK, it was Jack Bauer --

MORGAN: In reference to 24.

SUSSMAN: -- from the TV show 24, on the field of battle. A bunch of his buddies, a bunch of his fellow soldiers had just been taken hostage by a group of insurgents. He was able to hold one of the insurgents back, and now he realizes time is limited: "All right, where are my buddies? Where did your guys take them? I want to know now." And he starts out by threatening the guy: "If you don't talk, I'm going to cut off the tip of your little finger. And if you still don't talk, I'm going after your private parts." So he begins with the tip of the finger, and guess what? The guy talks. The guy talks.

RODGERS: The ticking-clock thing.

Whereas 24 jingoistly exploits our fears of international terrorism, Sleeper Cell gives a inside view of how terror cells operate and how the internal struggles of bigotry within our nation mirror the struggles within Islam.

No TV Show is a perfect representation of Reality, not even so-called "Reality" shows due to the natural skewing tendencies of the editing process. Also most television shows and movies are a largely collarborative effort, with the final result being a combination of many different voices and viewpoints. But when you are clearly dealing with an Network with a clear idelogical agenda as FOX does, it's wise to understand what that agenda is and how it might be affecting the final work, shifting it from potentially enlightening education to merely diverting entertainment and finally naked propaganda.

Exactly how the FX Network which has shows such as "Rescue Me", "Nip/Tuck", "30 Days", the decidedly post-Parker corrupt Cop show "The Shield" and briefly the one Iraq War show ever on the air "Over There", has so far escaped the overall Murdock/FOX ideological bent remains a mystery to me - it could just be dumb luck or maybe the fact that those shows are all good and most neo-con tripe isn't - but clearly nothing in Hollywood is absolute.

Vyan

[Bucky]

1. Anyone who says "Soviet control of the former Yugoslavia" in a reality check needs to check reality

It's also a little muddleheaded to state that the secret CIA prison in 24 "may been may have been at least in part an inspiration for Bush administration own implementation of Secret Prisons." CIA secret detention centers predate Jack Bauer. I don't doubt that "24" is glorifying the drift towards police state that our country is going thru. I think it's a little naive to blame this tv show for that drift. Trying to drag "Married with Children" into the conspiracy is just lame.

There is certainly an anti-liberal and sensationalistic tone to much of what is on tv these days. Fox networks are not particularly egregious offenders. CSI, Law & Order, and whatever other gaggle of cop shows is on these days are all out there pushing the good taste envelope and glamorizing the trashification of our shared culture show up on all the networks.

I am a little surprised to see "Nip/Tuck" listed among the shows you consider liberal or thought provoking. I've only seen a couple of episodes, but I don't think I've ever seen a show that was more anti-humanistic or more degrading toward the human spirit. The constant thread I picked up from it was that "Everyone is mean; everyone is nasty; don't give a shit and fuck anyone you can." It's pure trash and I'll bet the neocons love it more than 24.

[Vyan]

6. Bush didn't authorize

his network of Secret Prisons until after September 11th.

Am I blaming 24 for our drift into fascism? No. But I am stating that 24 is being <b>Used by the Right</b> (ala Thomas, Morgan and Rush Limbaugh) to justify and excuse that drift.

CSI tends to show law enforcement using science and technology rather than emotion to not only solve the case, but usually exonerate their first, second and even their third suspects. It's split with Real Life is that county most labs, even the FBI lab, aren't that fast or effective. IRL the scientists aren't the ones running the investigation, regular ole' flat-foot detectives with a high school education do that.

"Nip/Tuck" isn't particularly liberal or progressive, my point was that it's the kind of show that would drive the right-wing bible belt right up the wall just like the PMRC sniffing Ozzy's dove carcasses.

Vyan

[fujiyama]

2. There is quite a split

between Fox News and Fox entertainment. Sure, Surnow is a RW nut, but there are writers for "24" that are liberal as well.

Now, is there some element of propaganda? In some seasons and episodes such as the last few of this season, there is certainly a hint of it. Hell, in season 4, a gay left wing guy is accused to harming national security by sleeping with a terrorist. The same season also explicitly defends torture by having "Amnesty Global" (gee who does that sound like?), try to give legal counsel to a man that is associated with terrorists. The guy from the agency is shown to be a zealous lawyer hampering the investigation of who's behind the days attacks - similar to the sister of the president in this season (who heads an agency similar to CAIR).

However, season 4 also has some unusual bad guys - defense contractors that sell arms to terrorists, hiring mercenaries to kill Jack. It also shows Jack finding two Arab guy shopkeepers who help fight the mercenaries. Season two features Jack and the President trying to stop a war against falsely accused Middle Eastern countries, after a nuke goes off in the country. The master bad guy turns out to be some oil tycoon. In Season 5, a similar plotline features a corrupt, weak, inept, and ultimately criminal president, who actually hatches a plan to give terrorists nerve gas to launch a war to give access to central Asian gas pipelines.

So, I think by the descriptions I've given, it's obvious that "24" is sort of running out of ideas. The master bad guys are in some ways recycled. But the show has kept me as a viewer for the high adreneline, fast pace, and ridiculous plot twists. The show is like crack. It's just fun.

I've seen "Sleeper Cell" and I'll admit, it's a smarter show. It's also creepier. Also, unlike "24" I think the debates are better laid out. Any political or philosophical or idealogical debate on "24" comes off shallow.

But while I watched the first few episodes of "Sleeper Cell" and enjoyed it, I wasn't able to finish it, and just haven't found the immediate need to do so (I will eventually rent or d/l the remaining just to see how the season turns out). But I don't think the "hook" is quite there, unlike "24".

[Vyan]

7. I said in my post...

that there are a variety of ideas involved in putting together a show like this. That fact that they had a variety of bad guys doesn't change the overwhelming premise of the show which is - By Any Means Neccesary!

I'll give you another example in season II there was a woman who was going to Mary an Arab and when the FBI showed up to investigate their involvement in the missing nuclear device components the brides sister when postal on him, assuming he must be a terrorist. The truth was that her sister was the terrorist and he was an innocent muslim.

Is that a more progressive view, or were they simply creating a plot twist?

24 is insulting to people's intelligence. At the end of last season they played the Attorney General the tape of President Logan's confession, he in turn ordered Federal Marshall's to take Logan into custody.

THAT is simply not gonna happen.

First of all Secret Service would prevent it unless they were ordered to stand-down by the head of Homeland Security (Because they don't work for the Attorney General, and never have - before DHS was established they were part of the Treasury Dept).

The mandate for Federal Marshalls is to handle and recover Federal Prisoners and Convicts who've already been to court. They had no jurisdiction in this case. It was a ridiculous mess.

If you've read books by people directly involved in counter-terrorism like Richard Clarke's "Against All Enemies" or Michael Schueur's "Imperial Hubris", Sleeper Cell comes across as highly accurate and informed. It's not the kind of cliff-hanger deal that 24 is - but it's not propaganda either.
Vyan

[fujiyama]

8. I actually agree with you

"24" forces one to suspend all belief. I've even finally come to realize that the acting is cheesy and the dialog is wooden.

But even with that and subtle (and sometimes not so subtle hints of propaganda), it's just ridiculous fun.

[Amused Musings]

3. Yes, a show in which the president is helping terrorists and is forced

to resign in disgrace (he even looks like Nixon) is propaganda for the administration. Sheesh. Oh yeah, by the way, the show is fiction and does not have to follow historical events completely accurately. Its a great, fun show to watch. Methinks you are chasing shadows.

[Berry Cool]

4. I'm inclined to agree, it's a bit of a reach.

I love Keith but I think he was reaching with this one, and I don't even watch 24.

What I do know, though, is, it's a show. A story. I don't think it's worth getting that bent out of shape over. It's not like "The Path to 9/11," which was purporting to be the true story of how 9/11 happened and yet was full of lies.

[wyldwolf]

5. Jack Bauer is a Democrat. President Palmer - a Democrat

From Taylor Marsh, addressing Rush Limbaugh:

Rush Limbaugh and the Republicans have decided that Jack Bauer is a Republican. Today on the air, Rush Limbaugh of all people, started talking about how tough Jack Bauer is, while inferring he's one of them. Like Rush would know about bravery. His idea of courage is skipping his Oxycontin daily dozen.

Meet your reality, Mr., Mrs. and Ms. Republican. Jack Bauer continually saves Clueless President from himself, thus saving the nation from the incalculable incompetence of a man who should never have been president. Sound like any situation you know?

Rush, your man is Terror Guy. Jack Bauer is a Democrat.

Jack Bauer is a renegade American patriot who has no trouble in talking back to authority. He will risk his own life to save his country.

Terror Guy would force him to resign, then have him arrested.

Jack isn't afraid to have strong men who disagree with him as friends and colleagues.

Clueless President fired a former president, who happened to be black, once he'd saved him from a nuclear calamity. He didn't want him around to tell the tale of what happened.

Like Clueless President, Terror Guy muzzles the only black general to serve in his cabinet, reducing Colin Powell to a puppet secretary of state, all because he dissented from Terror Guy's talking points, however meekly.

Jack Bauer would have resigned rather than listen to lies, distort the truth and basically abet Terror Guy's faulty justification for preemption. Hey, but that's Jack.

Jack Bauer and the former black president, now dead by an assassins bullet, thanks to Clueless President's inability to see what his own people were doing under his nose, once saved Clueless President when terrorists were about to nuke the country. Then the former black president helped Jack to escape because Clueless President, once out of the jam, was prepared to go after Jack.

Terror Guy doesn't accept help, doesn't admit reliance on anyone and always claims victory for his own. He is an egomaniac.

Jack Bauer is a humble rebel with a cause. Not a pompous ass that is clueless.

Jack Bauer loves strong women, respects them and listens to them.

Terror Guy loves strong women as long as they agree with him.

Jack Bauer, however unwise, willingly put himself in place of the teenage kid of a woman who befriended him, because he's fearless and willing to die for someone else, not to mention the country he loves.

Terror Guy has never been willing to die for his country or anyone else. He never met a war he wouldn't duck and is much more comfortable sending others to die for his lie.

Jack Bauer never lies.

Terror Guy wouldn't recognize the truth if it was strapped on and rammed down his presidential pie hole.

Jack Bauer speaks his mind, knows the facts and isn't afraid to let Clueless President have it.

Terror Guy would be threatened by Jack Bauer. His Dick would be scared of his independence. So, they would mount a campaign to discredit the American patriot.

Jack Bauer is the underdog. He's the hero. He is a Democrat.

... and be sure to read the update: Will Wingnuts Turn on Jack Bauer?

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=1824

[Hippo_Tron]

9. Agreed, I can't believe that people are actually agreeing with Rush

Just because Rush hypes up 24 for his own purposes doesn't mean that it was created for that reason.4

[saintsteven7]

10. It's a television show...

,,,and even if it is supporting a political point of view, it has every right to do so even if you don't agree with it. I don't necessarily agree with the show stands for all the time, but it is an entertaining show. And anyone who wants to slam what the show represents is no different than the Catholic League slamming every movie they feel questions Christianity.

Debates about issues should not revolve around tv shows or movies, but real life.

[Connie_Corleone]

11. The one republican president they had on the show was the villain.

The Secret Service had to arrest him last season for conspiring terrorist attacks on the country and blaming muslims, and also conspiring to assassinate former President Palmer...all for oil

Yeah. Sounds like propaganda to me./sarcasm

[geek_sabre]

12. he didn't blame muslims, he blamed the Russians.

I don't buy "24" as propaganda. It is simply a great show. If you don't want to see terrorism as a theme, then don't watch a terrorism-themed show.

Its that simple.

[Connie_Corleone]

13. If you didn't notice, there's a sarcasm tag on my post.

I got season 2 plot mixed up with season 5 about framing the muslims.

I obviously watch and like the show or I wouldn't know that the president was arrested last season, and that I have been watching the show since the first season.

So, you're directing your comment to the wrong person.