Hillary Supports Civil Unions.

[Infinite Hope]

The question came up during the chat. She's said it before, but I thought I'd mention it here during her chat. She also supports two bills currently in the process to end discrimination and hate crimes toward those of any orientation.

[PresidentObama]

1. I was very pleased with her answer to that question.

[sandnsea]

2. What about gay marriage bans

in constitutions??

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. She's against them.

[Infinite Hope]

4. I think she's addressed that in the past.

I kept wondering if she'd hit on the issue of gay marriage itself, but she didn't. As for a constitutional ban, I think she's always been opposed to that as has nearly all the rest of Dems.

[Dedalus]

7. The whole constitutional amendment thing...

...was a ploy anyway. The DeceptiCons knew they couldn't get it ratified by the requisite number of States, even if it had gotten through Congress. It was just another of those strategies they have for keeping their far-right base happy with stuff where they know they won't actually have to do it but can get points just for going "Sorry, we tried."

You know who supports full-on gay marriage, and a bunch of other cool shit?

www.the1585.com , that's who!!

[dsc]

13. actually I think they would have had an easier time

getting three fourths of the states than two thirds of the House and Senate. We would have needed 13 states to say no and that might not have happened. I would think we could count on the 6 New England states, California, New York, Illinois, and New Jersey and then we run into trouble.

[ruggerson]

32. HI, DE, MD

possibly Oregon and Washington state.

Remember the rules are kind of stiff in each state, some need a 2/3 vote to ratify.

[sandnsea]

8. She disagrees with Bill then?

He said Kerry should support gay marriage bans in 2004.

[AtomicKitten]

11. that is an interesting take on it

You often post that allegation, and I wonder why you blame Bill Clinton for Kerry's decisions? Whatever advice he was given, Kerry is a grown man and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that that is clearly his own point of view in light of what I have posted below, and that he is responsible for the thrust of his own campaign.

It would be helpful (reasonable and fair) if we stopped blaming other people for the direction candidates choose to take in their campaigns.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/05/06/democrats_platform_shouldnt_back_gay_marriage_kerry_says/

[sandnsea]

12. Kerry didn't support gay marriage bans

Bill Clinton told him he should come out against the Missouri ban and Kerry wouldn't. I don't know what you're talking about.

I asked a question about Hillary and whether she was going to support state constitutional bans on gay marriage. That's fair.

[Infinite Hope]

16. Your accusation is questionable at best. n/t

[sandnsea]

19. It's fact

It's been reported for a long time, in many places. Eleanor Clift is a Clinton backer all the way.

"President Clinton, who signed the Defense of Marriage Act when he was in the White House, advised Kerry in a phone call early in the campaign to find a way to support the state bans. Kerry never considered abandoning his principles to that extent.."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6415858/site/newsweek/

[Infinite Hope]

20. We still don't know...

...whether Kerry "abandoned his principles" or whether it was because of Clinton. Until we hear it from Kerry himself, we really don't know 100%.

[sandnsea]

22. He NEVER supported gay marriage bans

What the hell are you talking about?? Clinton proposed supporting gay marriage bans, CLINTON is the one with NO PRINCIPLES. I was asking whether Hillary had any on the issue.

[dsc]

23. Yes he did

He still, unless he has changed his mind very recently, supports an amendment banning marriage but permitting civil unions in Massachusetts. He also supported a ban in Missouri which was on the ballot on Super Tuesday. He then changed his mind about it the next day. Like it or not, he did do these things.

[sandnsea]

25. Supported defining marriage

and granting equal rights though civil unions. He did not support an amendment banning gay marriage outright, with no equal rights provisions at all. IIRC, that was the problem with the Missouri amendment specifically, it was an outright ban which he clarified his opposition to the next day.

[dsc]

27. That is still banning marriage

Yes, he was willing to replace it with something but he still would ban it.

[sandnsea]

28. I haven't seen what he would consider

I understand your position on gay marriage.

I do see a difference between an outright gay relationship ban in a constitution - and a constitution that defines marriage and civil unions. The latter legitimizes gay couples, the former blatantly discriminates. I don't see that he has ever supported an amendment that out and out bans gay marriage, as was recommended to him by Bill Clinton. I think it matters.

I also wish he would have just said he supported civil unions and gay marriage, and that one or the other needed to be implemented in every state. That would have been more clear. If he had said it early in 2004, ripped the scab off so to speak, it might have been a nonissue by November.

[Infinite Hope]

24. ...

1)Just because he never supported bans outwardly doesn't mean he did only because Clinton told him to. As others have said, he's a grown man and has his own views.
2)Kerry has been on record expressing that his own Massachusetts Democratic Party not include a pro-gay-marriage position on their platform. He's made it clear he supports civil unions and not gay marriage. In the 2004 election, he talked about how he supported gay marriage bans as far back as Reagan. He does not support *federal* *constitutional* *amendments*.

[sandnsea]

26. *ANY* *constitutional* *amendments*

He has never supported a gay marriage ban *amendment*, outright, never, not once.

[Infinite Hope]

29. I've never heard him oppose them. I've heard him only support states rights on the issue.

It very likely was a political strategy, but not one that came at the hands of Clinton. Kerry choose that position because he knew it gave him the best chance. That's the issue. Not everything is a Clinton conspiracy.

Now, I'm done with this. Call Kerry's office and ask them for yourself whether Bill Clinton is responsible for Kerry's position (which he still maintains, which demonstrates clearly his personal views) on this issue. If you lack the confidence in your Clinton-Conspiracy to confront Kerry's office on it, then you continue to have a conversation with yourself here.

[sandnsea]

30. He didn't support Clinton's position

Did you read? I'm not opposing Kerry's position on gay marriage ban amendments, he opposes them, I oppose them. Clinton supports them. Clinton signed DOMA, hello?? Do you support state consitutional amendments to ban gay marriage? Bill does. Does Hillary?

[LostinVA]

5. HRC is quite progressive on most social issues

[Rebellious Republican]

6. She should ask Mary Cheney what her position is on the subject.

Would'nt that be a hoot.

:think:

[derby378]

9. I'll have a transcript of many of Hillary's comments later on tonight

Don't know if I was able to get the civil unions remark, but I'll see what I can do.

[Catchawave]

10. I agree with Hillary

:toast:

[ripple]

14. Are there any candidates that don't?

Or is she talking about a federal law recognizing civil unions?

Her husband's signing the DOMA was the largest blemish on his presidency, in my view.

[MH1]

15. How does she feel about Bill's signing DOMA?

Does anyone have a record of any public statements of hers about DOMA at that time? Of course, she wasn't in a position to go on record with a vote, but I'd be really interested in what she had to say about it - then, not now.

[flpoljunkie]

21. Good question. Too bad, if no one asked it.

[election_2004]

17. And so do most of the other Dem candidates....

Although I don't know Gravel's position...but does anyone expect him to win the nomination?

The only Dem primary candidate who was ambiguous and wishy-washy about supporting civil unions was Lieberman...and he's not running this time around.

[Tatiana]

18. So does Clark.

<snip>

The right wing says that the LGBT community wants special rights. But that is not true. Gay Americans want the same rights that all Americans enjoy Рrights to form personal, legal relationships that confer benefits and obligations. It is high time for the LGBT community to enjoy these rights as well.

The American people are fair-minded. They understand that two people who have been together for twenty-five years should be able to visit each other in a hospital. They understand that couples should be able to leave property to one another without crippling tax consequences. And they also know that the legal status of gays and lesbians has nothing to do with "protecting" traditional marriage.

Whether we call civil unions "marriage" is a decision best left to churches and state legislatures. The concept of marriage has always been thought of as a union between a man and a woman. Such deeply embedded traditions are not easily changed. As we debate and discuss this issue, we must be mindful that people of good will can disagree without demonizing each other.

This is why we need new leadership in Washington, leadership that will bring us together.

I know my position will not make everyone happy. I am sure some will think I go too far and others will argue that I do not go far enough. But I can assure the LGBT community that my heart is open to them and to their concerns. And when I am president, my door will always be open, too.

http://www.clark04.com/articles/013/

[MasonJar]

31. I believe a lot of DUers do not give Hillary the credit that she

deserves. She is actually pretty liberal. Much of the slam on Hill has come from the Freepers, who have excoriated her for years. I remember that she came out for a Palestinian state and the Pucks went ballistic. She and Bill both have had to endure almost insurmountable garbage from the right. One reason that I admire her is her verve in going forward with a career of service when it has been so ugly for the both of them. In my opinion we owe Hill and Bill and Gore and Kerry and many others a debt of immeasurable gratitude for not just taking off for the south of France. In their shoes I would have done just that. Serving one's country is a privilege, but sometimes in these times it goes way beyond endurance.