OK, can someone explain "cloture" and why the minimum wage bill didn't pass the Senate?

[garybeck]

(edited because i'm evidently an idiot who doesn't know what cloture is and I took this CNN quote:

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, scheduled Wednesday's vote to point out the lack of support for a minimum wage bill without tax cuts."

to mean that the Democrats blocked the bill because they want tax cuts tied to it. So rather than raising hell, i'm asking for an explanation)

WTF?

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democrats' promise of a quick increase in the minimum wage ran aground Wednesday in the Senate, where lawmakers are insisting it include new tax breaks for restaurants and other businesses that rely on low-pay workers.

On a 54-43 vote, proponents lost an effort to advance a House-passed bill that would lift the pay floor from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour without any accompanying tax cut. Opponents of the tax cut needed 60 votes to prevail.

The vote sent a message to House and Senate Democrats

more:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/24/minimum.wage.ap/index.html

[Mass]

1. It is the other way around...

[happyslug]

10. No, he is right the vote was 54-48, when the Democrats needed 60

THis was a motion to close debate, NOT on the actual bill. To close debate (i.e. end a filibuster) you need 60 votes, ALL the Democrats (plus the Socialist) voted to close debate (As did a handful of Republicans) but 48 Republicans voted to keep the debate and thus the filibuster.

[ClassWarrior]

17. He's right on the numbers, but wrong on the blame.

NGU.

[sandnsea]

2. Which Democratic Senators?

I read the vote count and didn't notice any Democratic Senators voting against cloture. Do you not know there are more than 43 Republican Senators?

[tsuki]

8. All Democrats voted yea, except Carper (D-DE) & Johnson (D-SD)

who did not vote.

[tsuki]

3. The vote:

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00023

Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---54
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Casey (D-PA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---43
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)

Not Voting - 3
Brownback (R-KS)
Carper (D-DE)
Johnson (D-SD)

[The Wielding Truth]

18. Did it need 2/3 rd's ? They had majority?

[tsuki]

27. 60 votes for cloture. n/t

[The Wielding Truth]

28. Thanks. Then even with majority, Dems can't pass bills by themselves.

[patrice]

4. They voted against cloture and succeeded, because votes for cloture

fell short of the requisite 60. So debate, mainly about the proposed tax cuts I suppose, will continue until cloture is achieved. Then they'll vote, but we won't know whether the votes will be for or against minimum, since the two issues, minimum and tax cuts, have been mixed now, and if the bill succeeds at that point, it will go to conference, since, if it includes tax cuts, it will be different from the House version.

[garybeck]

13. pardon my ignorance, what does that mean? Doesn't this say it all:

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, scheduled Wednesday's vote to point out the lack of support for a minimum wage bill without tax cuts."

the CNN article doesn't mention "cloture" at all.... it just says that 54 senators voted against a bill that would raise the minimum wage without an associated tax cut....

correct me if I'm wrong?

[patrice]

19. I don't know why CNN would do that. The vote was about

whether to continue the debate or not, a vote on whether to vote on the bill now, if you will. It was not a vote for or against an increase in minimum wage.

[garybeck]

23. well man, CNN really messed that one up.

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, scheduled Wednesday's vote to point out the lack of support for a minimum wage bill without tax cuts."

read it here:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/24/minimum.wage.ap/index.html

the quote is under Reid's photo.

[ClassWarrior]

24. Yes. Amongst Rape-Publicans.

Duh.

:eyes:

NGU.

[patrice]

25. More media elitism really: "We're the experts. We don't have to be

careful about getting it right."

Thanks for giving us another lesson on why NOT to trust them!

[ClassWarrior]

22. I'd like to see that link...

...if there is one.

NGU.

[marmar]

5. I don't think any Democratic Senator voted against it....

IT just didn't have the 2/3 needed to pass.

[quinnox]

6. All the Democrats voted for it...

Yes it is a new direction after all.

[Burnsey_Koenig]

7. UHHHHH.....Did you even read this?

It does not say the dems voted against the minimum wage, they lost the vote 54 voted for the bill, 43 voted against it. This is in the Senate, so it looks like all the dems and 3 republicans voted for it. If you have proof that a dem voted against this bill, then by all means share the link that shows they voted against it.

[tsuki]

11. Five Republicans voted for: Senators Spector, Coleman, Collins,

Snowe & Warner.

[garybeck]

15. please tell me what this means

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, scheduled Wednesday's vote to point out the lack of support for a minimum wage bill without tax cuts."

[sinkingfeeling]

26. Did you read the whole thing? Here are two key sentences that explain it.

Opponents: Bill must include tax cuts for businesses that use low-pay workers

On a 54-43 vote, proponents lost an effort to advance a House-passed bill that would lift the pay floor from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour without any accompanying tax cut. Opponents of the tax cut needed 60 votes to prevail.

[movonne]

9. From what I saw, not a one of them voted against this...but they

didn't get enough to keep it from being but not enough...
..This is the way I understood this, I could be wrong..

[snowbear]

12. Why not just delete this thread gary?

And forget you ever posted it?

[sandnsea]

14. Why not come back and explain the kneejerk against Dems n/t

[quinnox]

16. Maybe they can block all the posters who replied

and post it again>

}(

[emulatorloo]

20. lol n/t

[SaveElmer]

21. It is not over by a long shot...

All this means is they have to slog through tons of amendments to get to a final vote...most will be defeated. I think the Dems will let a couple minor ones go through, and I suspect they will agree to a break for small businesses to let them accelerate depreciation on their taxes...a minor concession...it will then go to conference where I suspect t hey will agree on a version and it will pass...it may take a while, but I think they will get there...