why the negative attitudes about the DLC/New Democrats....

[k_jerome]

my chosen candidate is a DLC member, as is one of the most beloved Presidents ever. It also appears that Al Gore, John Edwards and John Kerry are or were as well. It seems to be used as an insult, but I am not ashamed.

[xultar]

1. It is an insult but I don't care. A (D) is a (D) @ this point. As long as no (R)

wins I'm fuckin happy.

[Mass]

2. Read what their blogger writes and what Al From says when it comes

to liberals, and you will understand better.

They have been blasting netroots, Dean, and whoever is somewhat liberal. May be this pleases you, I do not know, but this is far from something even remotely progressive in language.

[k_jerome]

7. I have seen Dean blasted from all sides from conservatives and...

liberals alike. Everyone gets blasted from all sides.

[Dr Fate]

34. Really? Which Liberal groups tried to oust Dean as chairman after our 1st victory in years?

Stop playing dumb- no one is buying it.

[k_jerome]

54. i said blasted by liberals wise Old whi...Democrat. nt.

[Dr Fate]

56. So In other words you have no solid examples of DEM Liberal groups attacking Dean like the DLC does.

Again with the semantics tricks as opposed to answering any questions.

I'll bite- show us the Liberal Democratic Party Groups who "blast" Dean in the same manner that Bullmoose & the DLC "blasts" them.

Please make sure it is "blasting" per your own semantics- and not some other type of attack. ;)


If you have none, then we can know you made it up.

[k_jerome]

57. i'm sorry, didn't you coin that moniker for yourself? just using it...

Old Democrat.

[Dr Fate]

58. Better to be called "Old Democrat" by you than to make things up like you are doing.

I'm not even sure what you are talking about anymore- "Old Democrat"- sure- whatever.

You either have examples of DEM Liberal groups "blasting" Dean like the DLC "blasts" him, or you dont.

I say you dont. But you knew that when you fist made it up.

[k_jerome]

62. i say you are a wise and Old Democrat....

and always see you enlightening others and providing concrete evidence. otherwise, you would not demand it of those that disagree with you. right?

later wise Old Democrat.

[Dr Fate]

64. Thanks. And I say you are unable to back up your original statement.

You know- the one where you made up something to suggest that Liberal Democrats attack Dean as much as the DLC chumps do.

"later" indeed.

I would bow out now if I was such a shitty debater too.

Too bad you cant back up your arguments, I dont make them unless I can do so- you cant show me where I failed to ever back up my arguments when challenged- all you can do is make stuff up and make personal insults that no one gets.

[k_jerome]

65. i asked for some sources earlier and did not get any...

i didn't whine and harp on it for an hour. i guess wise old democrats just whine more. to get their way.

[Dr Fate]

67. You asked me for sources? Sources For what?

I dont believe you- are you sure you are not making more things up? Seems like all you do.

[k_jerome]

68. i said i asked for sources and didn't get them..

and did not whine like you wise old Democrat.

[Dr Fate]

69. I'm not whining- I'm demonstrating that you made shit up about Dean attacks.

I'm also demonstrating that you prefer attempts at insults & sematics tricks (not very effective ones, I might add)as opposed to backing up your false accusations.

Hey- if other folks cant back up their accusations, that does not save you from the fact that you cant either. Clearly you cant.

I dont have that problem, the fact that others may argue like you does not mean I myself am not correct in calling you on your made up BS.

[k_jerome]

70. you are demonstrating your ability to whine until...

you get your way, wise Old Democrat.

[Dr Fate]

72. You mean allowing you a chance to back up your OWN arguments is "getting my way?"

i was giving you an opportunity for you to get YOUR way- to further expound on how it is not just the DLC who "blasts" Dean in the manner they do.

Too bad you dont have the ability to back up your own made up BS.

If you are going to make things up, you should at least try to come up with something half-way factual to make it seem like truth- can you even do that???

That is the strange world of the DLC- THEY can make up anything they want- anyone who calls them on it is the one who is trying to "get their way."

In the world of reality, it is the person who makes things up that is trying to "get their way"- not the one who exposes that tactic.

I sure hope you guys debate Republicans (Do you all even have anything major to Debate with them?) better than you debate us DEMS.

[k_jerome]

73. you don't debate, wise old Democrat...

you whine until the other person gives in. your whining ability is overwhelming.

[Dr Fate]

76. You wish-I successfully proved you could not back up your false suggestion...

...Remember- you originally tried to make the suggestion that Liberals "blast" Dean as much as the DLC does.

You failed to debate that point or to "get your way."

As I said, I sure hope you guys are better at debating Republicans than you are here- they are not going to let you make stuff up either.

Good Night Mr. Benchley- or whoever you are.

[k_jerome]

77. you prove everyone wrong...

i see from counting all the references to your sources in this thread. good night wise Old Democrat. it is getting late.

[Dr Fate]

84. No- but I did indeed prove YOU wrong. Soundly. LOL- you cant even hold your own in your own thread.

I did not even ask you for "references to your sources"- I simply asked you to clarify what you meant by providing an example of Liberals "blasting" Dean in the same way the DLC always does.

One would think that in all of your many responses you could have come up with something-anything-but you couldnt do it because you made it up.

A request for the "references to your sources" would have come later, unless you made a claim that was generally known to be true. No one on this thread asked me to reference my statements-probably becuase there is not much doubt that I was correct, if they had I could have done it- something you are unable to do.


Good night indeed- I dont blame you for bowing out- even if it is long after you should have.

[k_jerome]

85. you debate yourself well....

must be a wise real Old Democrat

but your skull thingy is hip and takes a few years away i guess.

[Dr Fate]

87. LOL! Still cant back up your own arguments? Bottom line, I am right and you are wrong.

I am correct to say that you cant back up your statement.

You are obviously incorrect in that you cant seem to back up your own suggestions in your own thread- a pathetic performance indeed.

I hope they arent paying you much- or that they have a refund option.

[k_jerome]

89. bottom line....go through the thread and pick out the parts...

where you put words in my mouth...something i have seen you do before. thats why i don't play your games wise Old Democrat.

[Dr Fate]

91. Pick out the parts? How about I take your suggestion as a whole, as you meant it.

The only games that are being played are the ones by you- that include semantics, backtracking on what you said and attempting to intimidate with lame insults (you failed @ that part)

Do all you guys take the same class or what?

You started a thread asking why folks dontlike the DLC, when folks replied that they dont like them for what they did to Dean, you made the suggestion that Liberals "blast" Dean too.

Your statement didnt measure up to facts in the context of your thread then and it does not now.

[k_jerome]

92. your tactics of adding words to what is said...

and then whining about being ignored are quaint, wise Old Democrat. keep whining.

[Dr Fate]

Ignored? LOL! With over 20 responses you can hardly say you are ignoring me.

Rather, you just cant back up your own false suggestion that Liberals "blast" Dean like the DLC does.

You are not ignoring me-you wish you had that option, you simply just dont have any facts on your side.

[k_jerome]

95. i love basking in your whining, wise Old Democrat...

evolve the argument further...you taken several steps on both sides all by yourself. go 'head with your scary skull self.

[Dr Fate]

98. Bask away- just know that next time you make something up...

...you should do it when I'm not around.

[k_jerome]

99. ease up there, wise Old Democrat....

don't want to see that skull burst into flames and come face to face with Ghost Whiner.

[k_jerome]

86. by the way...

this part is when you went off and started debating yourself wise old Democrat...

"I simply asked you to clarify what you meant by providing an example of Liberals "blasting" Dean in the same way the DLC always does."

i never said anything about the DLC in that context, you did...and from your other discussions, i see you do this quite often. wise Old Democrat.

[Dr Fate]

88. Could be- but I exposed your bullshit , make-up-the-facts tactics regardless.

Unless you can show us otherwise...

[k_jerome]

90. you exposed your tactics...

of steadily adding words to what people type, even though it is easy to go back and see you doing it. arrogance, or maybe just a wise Old Democrat.

[Dr Fate]

93. I'll gladly let the reader of this thread (if there are any) be the judge.

I think most people know exactly what you are doing- hard to miss since all you DLC defenders use the exact same tactics when on message boards.

[k_jerome]

94. i think you are a wise Old Democrat...

as you have said. i bow to your self debate prowess, scary skull dude.

[Dr Fate]

96. Thanks- I wish I could say the same about you.

You cant even hold your ground in your own thread.

Wise would be to have your arguments ready before you make wild, questonable statements- but I am in error to expect a DLC sympathizer to understand winning strategy.

[k_jerome]

97. but, who can predict how you will modify their statements...

in your self debate, wise Old Democrat. that is your prowess. it is formidable. and your skull is scary.

[endarkenment]

100. Dr_Fate pwned k_jerome. nt.

[rman]

103. Dean was not blasted by those who oppose the war -

a majority of the American people and a few progressive politicians.

But the DLC took a front-row seat.

[PATRICK]

105. We could carefully parse

this anti-DLC debate again, the organizational characters and advisers, particularly offensive members and some elected officials, the money roots, the business centrist, conservative revolution affirming ideology, the traditional hardline US foreign policy stances.

What makes it clearer besides From frothing against the people actually revivifying the party and threatening their turf is that when you think of ANY fault, gaffe, doubt, disagreement with any of the aforementioned candidates, even Bill(outside of sex), the three little letters come to mind. The money, the centrism, the movement away from liberals or traditional core groups, gratuitous attacks even. The sense of pre-emptive attack because netroots proved their soul twisting flight to big money was a faithless mistake and so too their judgment about the American people, populism, and higher ideals surrendered to the successful GOP.

The haves who are always had, the dominators that get clobbered, the centrists that bend to the right, the crafters of messages to the swing vote 2% who don't really care, the failures who never step down, never learn and define the future as a myth of false bi-partisanship. The embarrassed to be FDR Democrats wing of the Democratic Party. truly offensive members see more like trolls than DINOs and since Rinos have practically been driven out by the Bushies what are they? The wraiths of Eisenhower Republicans?

Going deeper into the money and the Third Way and the losing, the sinking into Tweedle-dum-dee-dum gridlock as a happy state, the giving up on populism and upward trust in big business and a somewhat warped or fantastic globalization viewpoint, could really explain things about the more thoughtful and progressive take on the whole "centrist" party faction that does give support and community to many candidates not really tied to that lukewarm faith. Who could be?

In reality for most DUers, it is the instinct I mentioned. When it comes to elitism and losing, anti-populism and unrealistic thinking about policy and politics, establishment blindness, big money, untrustworthiness, humongous mistakes, deference to power, fear of rocking the boat or any other sign of political weak-mindedness, spite, or most of the things we dislike in our party it is laid at the doorstep of the DLC. The DLC organizational leadership clings to Clinton like a liferaft, never too happy with any display of populism or great personal leadership of course. they feed off the success of democrats the most when those Dems think they owed it all to this group. Having Dean and a new wave around is a bigger threat to them than GOP fraud that routinely takes the "business" rubes to the cleaners.

Hillary is one of the top pol leaders of the organization and has chastised some for divisive behavior. With her candidacy the prematurely senile and bitter third way people will come back with arrogance fueled by resentment. It will help divide the party, push down the grass roots, replace Dean, get everything mostly wrong, and allow the cancers to grow and the crises to bloom and the world to get the impression it can get by with second best or less.

Ordinarily one could mitigate criticism by carefully defining what one doesn't like about the DLC and certain individuals, actions or results. However, they neither have coalesced with the new activists and roots and progressives nor faded into the lesser role they have more than earned at the hands of the GOP and next the Democrats themselves. Liberals are more open handed and compromising than the odd
value/policy compromisers themselves but they will be forced to do what the DLC seems dedicated to suppress. To LEAD into the future.

[Solo_in_MD]

3. Some here consider DLC types to be DINOs

[k_jerome]

4. DINO's? Bill Clinton? nt.

[Solo_in_MD]

17. I don't but others here do, see post #5

[frylock]

52. NAFTA

[blm]

5. Depends on if you're DLC and maintain progressive positions or swallow whole DLC hook. line sinker

I never minded that Kerry was a member - I was glad that there was a lefty there to pull back against those pulling rightward. Imagine how far right they would be with NO contributing left opinions.

[k_jerome]

10. so, it is the individual candidate...

why is the organization given a bad rap?

[blm]

22. Because they have pulled TOO far right and pushed the left AWAY and

they have done it with CALLOUSNESS.

[k_jerome]

25. i have heard this...please provide examples. nt.

[Dr Fate]

51. self delete

n/t

[sandnsea]

6. More flamebait

That's all your threads are as far as I'm concerned.

[k_jerome]

11. go play elsewhere then. nt.

[paulk]

40. she's right

I'm really beginning to wonder what you're doing on this board.

All your posts seemed to be aimed at stirring up shit.

[k_jerome]

46. wahhh. you can go to another thread, ya know. nt.

[paulk]

53. I don't think you're really a Hillary supporter

you seem to be on a mission to piss off as many people on this board as you can.

I wonder why?


----------------------


you're doing a great job of it, btw.

[k_jerome]

55. i see you doing most of the whining in this thread....

most others seem to be calm.

[paulk]

60. you love love these little tit for tat squabbles, don't you?

you've engaged in so many today...

is that how you get your rocks off, k_jerome?

anonymous internet baiting?

well, fuck you.

I don't have the time to waste on assholes like you.

you're on ignore

which I don't think is going to matter much, really

'cause I don't think you'll be around here much longer.

----------------

[k_jerome]

63. you should start a thread, and tell everyone who you...

have on ignore and why you think they shouldn't be around.

[Vincardog]

8. Why don't the Corporatist just sign up with the republicants?

We do not need them to corrupt our party and replace respect for the working person and the environment with lust for the all mighty Corporate profit.

That is why.

[k_jerome]

14. last I looked, Al Gore was far from a corporatist. nt.

[Arugula Latte]

16. Gore was more of a corporatist before 2000.

He has gotten steadily more liberal in the past few years.

[Vincardog]

20. Did you want to know why the hostility exists or did you want to start a fight?

[k_jerome]

23. i'm gonna question the basis for the hostility, whether you agree..

i should or not. and you gave no indication of why the hostility exists, just did more to perpetuate it.

[durrrty libby]

9. I too would like an explanation.

I'd like to hear from reasonable people, if that is not too much to ask

I tune out and don't read screaming meemies

[Arugula Latte]

12. Their message of corporatism and capitulation to the right has cost our party dearly.

If we had had more politicans had not bought the DLC bullshit and had stood up against the onslaught of policies that have screwed the middle class and poor in this country we would not have endured the horrors of '94 to 2006.

[k_jerome]

18. please elaborate on the "bullshit" you speak of. nt.

[rman]

104. Where were you 6 months ago, a year ago, 2 years ago?

Not paying attention at all or just a short attention span?
We've been over this so many times.

[Captain Hilts]

13. It's the all-or-nothing-at-all approach to politics.

Not all that practical.

I wonder how many voted for Nader.

[k_jerome]

15. the DLC has that approach? nt.

[Captain Hilts]

31. No its detractors do.

To be frank, I wish Prez Clinton hadn't done things like "welfare reform" or "reinvent government as we know it." I think they've had an overall negative effect on our country.

But I understand you have to make deals and compromise. Sometimes you have to take half a loaf and wait for the other half.

[sampsonblk]

50. No, its that anti-coward approach

Or do you like seeing our party bullied into wars and other things that harm the country?

[snowbear]

19. I like New Dems, Old Dems, Big Dems, Little Dems...

~~~~All Dems!

~~ Dem all okay in my book!! ~~

Well. Except for maybe Zell "lost his marbles" Miller..

[SaveElmer]

21. The DLC is the bogeyman of the left...the catch all thing they can blame...

When something doesn't go the way they want...

It's the left's version of "Terra, Terra, Terra"!!!

[JAbuchan08]

29. Gee, I wonder where we would be if all we sensible centrists

had listened to the left at the beginning... hmm... let me think.... I know where we wouldn't be. Iraq. DLC is so scared of being weighed down by the "loony left" that they refuse to side with them on the issues that matter. Like Iraq. It's a mess, but the DLC (generally) refuse to put their necks on the line and call for us to get out. Which is the only option. We could stay there a hundred years and they would still wait us out. Out. Now.

Oh, btw. The DLC, or a DLC mindset, is what RUINED John Kerry, and to a lesser extent Al Gore. Everyone was so scared of going against the "conventional wisdom" as defined by the Republican spin machine that Both these candidates were confined. They torpedoed a relatively conservative guy in Howard Dean as well, because he was going against the tide, so maybe they are not "conservatives." What they are though is a bunch of losers. Losers who advised Clinton to split the differences on every issue, effectively turning Clinton into a big fat belgian breakfeast cake (a waffle).

[saltpoint]

24. After (by then) 8 years of cretinous xenophobia and

administrative incompetence, my plan is to vote for the blue team.

I don't give a damn who the Republicans nominate.

I'm supporting our ticket, whether the candidates represent my first choice or not.

[LoZoccolo]

26. I recall it all started in the Summer of 2003 when the Dean campaign was having it's ascendency.

The campaign wasn't named by name if I recall correctly, but the DLC was critical of the idea that the primary candidate might end up representing the views of activists in the Democratic Party, which (as you can see from hanging out here) does not overlap well with the views of people in general, or even members of the Democratic Party.

I was part of the Dean campaign at the time and was quite miffed by the DLC statement myself (I thought it was much less than tactful), but as time went on I started to realize that it was the case that the heavy amount of activist involvement in the Dean campaign was creating an atmosphere where people were making whatever they wanted of the campaign of that particular candidate. I think he got painted by his supporters as whatever they wanted him to be and thus the campaign had trouble defining him. It's not a good idea, for instance, to let just anyone come into a meetup and start writing their own version of what they think a campaign letter should look like. A viable candidate then puts their entire candidacy in the hands of potentially unskilled people, or worse, real lunatics and turkeys.

It's a real problem: I think that people getting involved in politics is great, but how do you then cast a wide net for volunteers without them being opportunistic and splattering themselves all over you. I understand Dean's slogan with which he began his campaign, "you have the power", but how do you keep, for instance, the socially inept and fanatical from seizing it away from you and running all over for it?

That was the first I'd heard of all this. I imagine at least part of it now is done just because people see everyone else doing it. The myth of the DLC precedes the actual DLC now.

[k_jerome]

28. actual explanation without buzz words. novel. thanks. nt.

[madfloridian]

32. See, you hit the nail on the head. "socially inept and fanatical"

When you look at the average people in the party who begged our Democrats not to vote for war, who called, who marched...only to be called "anti-war fringe". When you refer to people like that as:

"socially inept and fanatical"

And you turn Al From and Will Marshall and Marshall Wittman loose with such similar ugly rhetoric....you get people starting to investigate a group that in effect tells most in the party they are not welcome.

See...you and most of the DLC supporters here are insulting to others most of the time. You talk down to us, as though we do not have innate intelligence, as though we can not tell an invasion from a hole in the wall.

I think Hillary has made a huge mistake aligning her with them so strongly. She as a person is ok by me, but considering all the people around her who do nothing but attack other good Democrats...I will have to think twice. McAuliffe's book was devastating to Kerry, Carville, and Begala openly attack Dean with impunity. Harold Ford, who treated Dean and us in a humiliating way on Imus is now chairman of the DLC.

If we gripe here about words used against us, then those of you who refuse to see what they are doing....verbally attack us here.

I have so many links, so many posts, so many journals. But it is useless.

But you said it...and you said it well. The person who are being reasonable to just had a post making fun of Kerry. It was rude and it was in very poor taste.

For three years I have been called names and called a kool-aid drinker for supporting Dean's campaign.

You said well:

socially inept and fanatical

That is what the DLC and its supporters think of the majority of the people at this forum. I have threads from 2002 and 2003 with every detail of why. But the OP doesn't really want to know. Not really, so why bother.

[LoZoccolo]

38. Hello, I was there, hello.

Yeah, there were fanatics, people doing stuff like putting abrasive poems in their customized campaign letters. Did Dean write stuff like that? No. So why would Dean want to be represented that way? It is not a good idea to let just anyone come along and define you. You want people to vote for your candidate, not against what they saw some random person from the campaign do.

And hello, I was a Dean campaigner. I still think Dean's a cool guy. Do I call myself socially inept and fanatical? No. So why are you assuming I'm talking about you? Just because I'm willing to take responsibility for trying to learn something about what went wrong doesn't mean I'm personally attacking every last person in the Dean campaign.

For three years I have been called names and called a kool-aid drinker for supporting Dean's campaign.

If I were to venture a guess, I think that might be because he hasn't even been running for President for just shy of those three years.

[madfloridian]

42. Don't dig the insult hole deeper.

Hillary's campaign people go on TV and insult others. Hello? Hello?

DLC supporters come here to put many of us down.

I was stunned at first when it happened, now I am just angry.

[Dr Fate]

49. The fact that we have been 100% correct never stopped the "far-left nutroots" DLC insults- did it?

You are in the right.

The DLC KNOWS that they have been wrong about their support of all things Bush- that is what makes their attempt to smear the "far left nutroots" and take the credit that much more important. Cant have the people who showed morals & fact based leadership getting any credit or power, can we?

But you knew that already. ;)

[LoZoccolo]

59. "their support of all things Bush"

See that's where you lose me.

[Dr Fate]

66. I'm not trying to find you. You guys love to hang your hats on semantics. no?

You know as well as I do that the DLC supported the war and joined Bush/media in attacking the anti-war left.

The war is all encompassing and directly affects every issue. EVERY ISSUE that involves money & power- which is all of them. Not knowing that supporting the war was support for all things Bush before the polls changed demonstrates a lack of intelligence or a lack of leadership or both on the part of the DLC and others.

If I had said "many things Bush" or "support of Bush on the major, all encompassing issues" my point would stand as it does now.

Sematics on my part or your part does not change the DLC's failed leadership and breach of trust on Iraq- THE major, all encompassing issue of our lifetime.

[LoZoccolo]

61. "Hillary's campaign people go on TV and insult others."

And?

[Dr Fate]

71. "And?" That is why hardly no one outside of the media & DLC likes her. n/t

n/t

[Dr Fate]

43. "Socially inept and fanatical" You mean like the idiots who trusted Bush and supported his war?

AKA the DLC????

I might add factually & morally inept to boot.

It is to laugh how the DLC types as well as conservatives in general think they have a one up on everyone, considering how they were all 100% wrong on the major issues of the day.

[OKNancy]

27. Because a lot of people think the DLC is more powerful

than it really is. It is a group of centrist Democrats who think Democrats should go for the middle and the middle class which make up the majority of the electorate. Not everyone's cup of tea, but certainly not the boogieman some claim.

[k_jerome]

30. it seems to have a varied membership, not just "centrists". nt.

[madfloridian]

33. Wait until they stop the Democrats from enacting...

real healthcare that counts. Wait until the New Dems start blocking an exit from Iraq...oh, I forgot they already have.

They don't want the voice of the people in the party at all, period. Yes, they do have the power because they have the money.

[Dr Fate]

39. Easy to think that- since they are on TV disagreeing with the fact based DEMs all the time.

Thus, leaving the media to say "Democrats are divided on this that or the other" every other day. That in itself is indeed pretty powerful.

We will agree that they dont have power in membership numbers- but they do seem to have lots of media access to foster the impression that DEMS are divided.

[endarkenment]

35. Globalization is undemocratic and unprogressive.

The DLC/New Dem theme of right-of-center reformist half measures and free trade fundamentalism is a disaster for working people here and elsewhere. It is not in my interest to support the corporate greedhead wing of the Democratic Party, consequently I don't. Should I suddenly discover that I have control over vast accumulations of capital, I might change my mind. Meanwhile, as just another poor working stiff, I'll vote for Democratic candidates who are looking out for my economic interests first, thanks.

For example: where are they are universal healthcare? They prefer mandated private health insurance purchase programs that lock in profits for the health insurance industry. This is a corrupt give-away to corporate america. Healthcare should not be run for profit.

The progressive solution is in fact universal single payer health insurance: medicare for everyone. Every major industrial democracy except ours has universal health care and delivers superior results at lower costs to their citizens.

[brentspeak]

36. As an organization, the DLC is accurately described as "GOP-Lite"

Take a look at the DLC website, and the website of its think tank, the Progressive Policy Insititute: both advocate free-trade policies, both offer weasel words about supporting the Iraq War's mission.

The DLC is a neo-liberal, good-for-nothing, corporate tool.

On the other hand, there are some decent Democrats who are current or former DLC members: John Kerry, John Edwards, and Al Gore among them. They joined the DLC simply to gain membership in a powerful political organization; but their own policy positions aren't in sync with the DLC's pathetic policy positions at all.

[Dr Fate]

37. Has something to do with their unquestioning support for Bush & his war.

Until the polls started to reflect the the same morals and facts that the "net-roots" and "crazy, out-of-touch-Micheal Moore crowd" was privy to all along. Sorry, but leadership means being right from the beginning like the Liberals were-even when the polls are not on our side,not after the fact.

It also might have something to do with how the DLC tried to label the active DEM base as "nut-roots" and "anti-defense" even though we were right and the DLC was 100% wrong on the war. Check the text from the old Boosemoose Blogs if you want the dirty details on how the DLC smeared the fact based, moral anti-war crowd in favor of Bush and his war.

Hillary gave lip service and a few bucks to Lamont, sure- but over all the DLC supported Lieberman over the Democratic Primary choice-to the point where Bullmoose (a major DLC policy strategists) even now works for Lieberman.

I was actually ready to bury the hatchet with the DLC until they pulled that Dean stunt- they really just dont know when to quit.

[endarkenment]

41. Oh and I forgot: unrelenting misguided counter productive attacks on the DNC.

No party loyalty over at the DLC. For example, right after our victory in november the DLC sent out its minions to attack Dean and his 50 state strategy, which they hate not because it doesn't work (it did work) but because it weakens their power to control the agenda by controlling the funds and targeting only their candidates for national support.

So why should I support an unofficial Democratic (sort of) organization that cannot be bothered to support the official Democratic organization?

[brentspeak]

44. Well said

[Dr Fate]

45. One of their major policy men "Bullmoose" now works for Lieberman (R?).

You are correct to suggest that party loyalty w/i the DLC leaves much to be desired.

I was ready to bury the hatchet w/ them and start fresh- until the whole Dean coup attempt. I think that fiasco proved, once and for all how out of touch the DLC media/cock-tail party circuit is with the activists and State & local parties.

[ima_sinnic]

47. read all about them here, they are little more than Demo PNACers

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1463

rightweb chooses to include the DLC in a list of organizations that includes AEI, PNAC, and Richard Mellon Scaife. That pretty much says it all for me, and when you read about their tactics for hamstringing progressives, ever since the 80s, you gotta hate 'em.

[k_jerome]

48. i will read. thanks. nt.

[ulysses]

74. let's see...

corporate toadyism...craven abandonment of most progressive goals out of electoral fear during the Reagan years...mealymouthed inability to take and defend a stand without focus groups and triangulation...corporate toadyism...stop me if you've heard this before.

Y'know, as much as I hate to say that From and His Merry Band picked this fight 22 years ago, if the foo shits...

[Solon]

75. They seem to have a slavish devotion to "Free Trade"...

and come up with "Market-based" strategies to solve certain problems in this country, like Health Care, that seem to be worst than the problem itself.

I go into more details here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2623036#2623926

[Cleita]

78. Shouldn't Republicans stay in their own party?

I understand that they don't want to be associated with the corruption of the present GOP, but if they don't clean it up who will? This is the reason I'm not hot on Hillary. She really isn't one of us and neither was Bill. One of his mistakes was NAFTA and that comes from the business side of politics. Also, he and I assume she supports our outdated foreign policy of American domination at the expense of everyone else.

[k_jerome]

79. Gore too? Edwards? Kerry? are they in the wrong party as well? nt.

[Cleita]

80. Actually, Edwards was the only one of those guys I kind of

warmed up too. I really hated Kerry's corporate health care plan and Gore seems to have come home to the liberal side of his principles after that dip into business running everything that has been ruining our country step by step up till now that he adopted while he was in the Clinton administration. There are many real Democrats that I prefer to those three.

[k_jerome]

81. disagreements aside, you don't think these people are Democrats? nt.

[Cleita]

82. No. Their actions are very close to what my parents believed

in politically back in the fifties and sixties. They were Republicans. Of course, they wouldn't recognize their party today. They both died before Nixon made a mockery out of their party.

Well, their beliefs were that hard work would be rewarding and capitalism was king so you had to love the corporation. But even they believed in careful stewardship of our Treasury and people shouldn't be left to die in fields like feral cats without some social support.

[ProudDad]

83. They are democrats

in the great, time honored tradition of other corporatists-Democrats like Hamilton (not a democrat but one of the original corporatists), Wilson and Clinton...

Anything to further the capitalist world view...

Just for grins, I just read a couple of their position papers on the DLC website. There is food for thought there but one still has to accept a level of capitalist absolutism that I'm afraid is a dead end for the human race.

Oh, well... :shrug:

[rman]

102. DLC the organization isn't the same thing as any individual member of the DLC

Especially people who are no longer member of the DLC don't necessarily support the DLC's policies.

[rman]

101. Deja vue

It's as though the DLC has never been discussed here before.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

106. The DLC is a CANCER on the Democratic Party.

You disingenously wonder why real Dems have a problem with the monstrosity that is the DLC?

Let's start here, with one of the primary movers and shakers of the DLC:

"Marshall Wittmann is a senior fellow at the Progressive Policy Institute. Previously, he was Director of Communications for Senator John McCain (R-AZ). Mr. Wittmann has served in various positions with the Hudson Institute, Heritage Foundation, Christian Coalition, and in the administration of President George H. W. Bush."

Do you notice anything weird about that bio from the DLC website? Anything that might stand out to you? Huh? Did you also happen to notice that he was co-signator of a freaking PNAC document advocating military intervention on Iraq? As a Democrat, I want someone who is a fucking Democrat to be leading Democratic organizations, not some right-wing Republican masquerading in the part.

And what about that other DLC heavyweight, Al Fromm? You know, the guy that has done nothing but mock and undermine the anti-war effort by Democrats? The fellow who essentially called those of us who said no to the Iraqi invasion traitors? Now why on earth would I, as a Democrat, be uncomfortable with a organization whose spokesperson spews that type of crap? :shrug:


I will repeat it again: THE DLC IS A CANCER ON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

And yes, as a Democrat, you should be ashamed.