How many would support Al Gore if he ran as an Independent?

[RestoreGore]

You know, if he ran outside this toxic beltway with no support from it in a truly Jeffersonian fashion, throwing caution to the wind, speaking truth about all sides, and not putting any party before country. From what I am reading he is very popular here and also on other "progressive blogs" that claim they would give him tons of time and money. But is that only based on "Party", as in running as a Democrat in this system? Or would you stand by him because of who he is out of principle no matter what? And please, with all due respect, don't come at me with the "a vote for anyone else in any other party is a vote for a Republican," because where Mr. Gore is concerned and based again on what I am reading on these blogs regarding his popularity, he should be able to beat ANYONE in ANY party. And really, isn't principle and putting our country first really what this should be all about?So to those who continue to beg him to do that, how many of you would be willing to support him if he really wanted to but saw no other way to bring down this status quo but to run against it all?

[Ken Burch]

1. Al wouldn't do it.

And it'd be against DU rules to back him here if he did. You know that, RG. Or you oughta know it.

[RestoreGore]

2. Suspend reality for a second...

I asked what if. I didn't say whether or not he would do it because neither you or I really know that, I asked what would you do if he did. And I didn't break any sacred rules by asking it either. Don't come at me with that either, because to me that only looks like a defense mechanism. I am asking a sincere question based on the circumstances this world faces, and the FACT that Democrats aa well as Repunlicans have contributed to it. Should he feel he had no other recourse but to do that to really make a change, would you support HIM? It is a simple question, but if you can't owe won't answer it, I suppose I then have my answer that the ideals of Thomas Jefferson are indeed dead.

[BushOut06]

4. But why would he do that?

I'm sorry, but Ken Burch is right. Why would he do such a thing? If Al Gore wanted to run, which he could do very easily, he would run as a Democrat. Chances are, he'd win. If he didn't win, he would support the Democratic nominee.

Your premise just isn't based in reality. Al Gore is no Lieberman. He's not going to turn his back on his party. Him running as an independent would only draw significant numbers of voters away from the Democratic candidate - but not enough to win the general election, thereby assuring the GOP of a landslide victory, giving them an imaginary "mandate".

[RestoreGore]

7. Because Many People Out Here Are Fed Up With It ALL

And it doesn't matter whether it is Democratic or Republican. Do you have any idea how many people out here are disillusioned with politics on BOTH sides? I'm talking based on principle here, but I can see that is totally lost here.

[Ken Burch]

28. We understand disillusionment, in fact, if you hadn't noticed it

A lot of us feel it ourselves. Still it's just not realistic to think that Gore, if he chose to run, would decide that the only way to tap into that disillusionment would be to stand as an Independent. Also, even if Gore were to suddenly decide to put his lifetime Democratic allegiance aside and choose such a choice, he would do so knowing he was committing political suicide.

And standing outside the Democratic party is NOT the only way to fight for principle. It's really arrogant for you to imply that it is.

[RestoreGore]

33. Arrogant?

Tell that to Thomas Jefferson.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to Heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all."

Letter To Francis Hopkinson, Paris Mar. 13, 1789
~~~
I think it is arrogant of you to tell me how to think.

[Ken Burch]

106. I'm not telling you how to think.

But I do believe you're being presumptious to suggest that only those who would support an independent Gore candidacy would be acting from a point of principle.

You should work for electoral reform first. Without that, any independent candidacy is doomed.
The Electoral College ensures this.

[Zhade]

136. I agree that Gore wouldn't run as an indie when he could run as a Dem.

But here's an interesting question - what if the party held him back from running and anointed another candidate?

I'm not saying that would happen either, but certain factions of the party don't want Gore to run again, I'm sure.

[blm]

139. I'd say more like ONE faction of the party.

And I hope he tells them to Bug off.

[Capn Sunshine]

144. The One with three letters who supports one with three letters

DLC and HRC.

[LiberalFighter]

130. It would be an uphill campaign

Time and money wasted in getting his name on the ballot per state laws would start him in the hole.

Then there is the financial disadvantage of obtaining funding. Even though he was a VP and a major player in the Democratic Party the major funders which are still critical would be leery of financially supporting him as an Independent candidate.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. Yep. Gore saw what Nader cost him (and all of us)

He would never do it.
Neither would Kerry, or Dean, or most real Democrats.

[RestoreGore]

48. But that's not the question I asked

And is being a real Democrat to you mean even voting for a Democratic Bush over someone who has principles? Just how far do you believe our loyalty to party should exceed our loyalty to country?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

63. Loyalty to the Democratic Party

IS loyalty to the country at this point in time.
Sorry but, that's how bad the GOP is.

[mtnester]

51. I believe he is simply too loyal to the Democratic Party

and believes so much in it, he would never do that...

Now, if he were to announce he was running as a Dem, I believe he would shoot straight up and pass every other candidate in polling immediately.

I hope he and his team of friends are at the very least doing some quiet polling.

[The Wielding Truth]

99. Well, slap me with a noodle. I'd vote for him as an indy.

[tbyg52]

102. Only if we had instant runoff voting

Or if he was *way* ahead in the polls as an independent. Otherwise it would be just shooting ourselves in the foot.

Besides, I don't think he'd ever do it, so this conversation is academic. I only read this thread because third-party candidates have done *so* much damage lately--look at 2000, look at LIEberman, look at Texas just last election.

[Ken Burch]

104. I don't doubt that you would. And I won't tell you not to.

But until the electoral system is changed, non-party presidential campaigns are pointless, at least if the objective is to elect a non-party president.

[OKNancy]

3. I wouldn't

If he didn't jump in and do the right thing in the Democratic party then he would be no better than Lieberman in my eyes. And as mentioned above, he wouldn't do such a thing because, unlike Lieberman, he has guts and honor. Oh, and he is a Democrat.

[RestoreGore]

5. Interesting

Thanks for telling me how you really feel about this good man. And you know that would never be done by him if he felt he had no other choice for the same reasons Lieberman did it, so that is totally unfair to him. But I see now that this is truly all about a party mentality and not about what is best for this country now. So let Hillary Clinton raise MILLIONS and have the corporate status quo no one really wants to stand and up continue that status quo.

[rock]

12. It is about party

Maybe not all about party, but that is what our Democracy has become. Have you noticed that we have essentially (only) two parties: the minimum number that is plural? Again, the system tends to insure that.

[RestoreGore]

35. And that is actually scary...

because from some of the replies here, it leads me to presume that if Bush was a Democrat he would still be in the WHite House anyway simply because he was a Democrat and Democrats who only look at the letter would have voted for him even with all he has done. Again, scary.

[Tactical Progressive]

156. What's scary is the ridiculous notion of a party-splitting 'independent' candidacy

What is it about you people who just don't want to understand how politics works in this country?

You gave us eight years of Bush with your "not a dimes's worth of difference" between Bush-Cheney and Al Gore bullshit, which has so far resulted in over 20,000 dead and crippled Americans in Iraq, who knows how many Iraqis, not to mention all the rest of the damage that Bush and Cheney have done to this country, like another four trillion dollars in debt and at least two right-wing Supreme Court justices who are going to be with us for thirty years each. And a thousand other depravities we don't even know about.

And as sneering liberals just block out from their own minds what they and their strident lack of political acumen has done to this world, as if it was everybody else's fault but theirs, they honestly have the gall to lecture us on who's an appropriate progressive and who's not.

And as if all that isn't enough, the irony of so many sanctimonious leftists who put us in this hellhole, now swarming around - wait for it - 'Republicrat' Al Gore himself, original DLC demon, as the one true savior of progressive ideology. Yeah, the guy who you 'held your nose and voted for' if you even did that, is now amazingly the only truly progressive candidate. The irony chart has exceeded all available memory.

We leftists are progressives by ideology. We vote Democratic to align and focus our disparate but similar goals. Grow the fuck up, Democrat-hating progressives. How many more Reagan-Bush-Cheneys do you need to understand what political power means? How many more years do you think the country can take of that while you sit around screaming and bitching about and towards people who are better progressives than you, now proven beyond refutability in the real world?

Your unreliability along these lines is why you quite rightly have no credibility whatsoever in the political debate.

I'm for Hillary Clinton. She's a great progressive. If somehow Al Gore ends up with the Democratic nomination I'm for him, who btw I decided to vote for President in 2000 back in 1992. Neither of them would ever consider running against the Democratic party, and if they did they wouldn't have my vote. If you respect either one of them, or any other Democrat, why don't you take a clue from them and deal with American politics the way it is, not the way you want it to be.

[Ganja Ninja]

6. Not gonna happen n/t

[RestoreGore]

8. But you didn't answer the question

Well, thanks for proving that it is only about party and not about supporting the man. And should he not run, people will follow anyone they place there, even Hillary Clinton and continue to whine about it. They say we get the government we deserve, so no wonder he has no intentions of running. I say, good for him.

[Ganja Ninja]

18. It's about not splitting the liberal vote.

Al Gore would know that and that's why it ain't gonna happen. I would rather vote for Hillary or any Democrat then endure another 4 years of a GOP presidency. I'm quite sure Mr. Gore feels the same.

[OneBlueSky]

9. yeah, I would . . . but it'll never happen . . . nor would I want it to . . . n/t

.

[Meshuga]

10. Gore would run as a Democrat

Because he is a Democrat and well liked within the party.

If Gore enters the race he will have my support for the nomination.

In any other scenario I will vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who is running as an independent.

[bklyncowgirl]

11. Possibly--it depends on the circumstances

First, the Democratic nominee would have to be absolutely awful.

Second, there would have to be a counterbalancing conservative third party candidate.

Third, Gore would have to make a convincing case for splitting the party.

None of these things are impossible but are highly unlikely. Al Gore is nothing if not a loyal Democrat. I've read that he's the guy who talked Howard Dean off the ledge when Dean considered a third party run on 04. Finally, Gore knows better than anyone that a strong progressive 3rd party candidate means throwing the elections to the Republicans.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. I never heard

that Dean considered a third-party run. I doubt it very much. He's a very loyal Democrat.

[NYCGirl]

52. Pg 25 of Dean's book, "You Have the Power"

"Why am I doing this?" I wondered aloud. "Why am I a Democrat?"

I paced in my darkened hotel room in Milwaukee, making tracks in the carpet, my cell phone gripped tightly against my ear. “Why should I be a Democrat after all this?”

(A couple of pages follow, describing their friendship and Dean’s admiration for Al Gore.)

Gore’s words follow:

“This isn’t about whether or not Howard Dean ends up being president of the United States. It’s about the future of the country.”

No one else could have reached me then. No one else knew what it felt like to have things come crashing down around you when you were so close to winning. Only Al Gore could have know what it felt like to have been the leading candidate and be dethroned in the final hour. Al Gore had had the presidency in his grasp.

He was the one person in America who had the right to tell me whatever he damn well wanted. And only he could have been so right.

[Pirate Smile]

68. Perfect answer from a perfect quote, NYCGirl. He would never do it because this isn't about

symbolism or making a statement. It is about who will make the decisions regarding the future.

The only way Gore would ever run is as a Democrat. The only way he could ever win is as a Democrat. He IS a Democrat.

Whoever wins the Democratic nomination will get his support 100% because it isn't about personalities or rivalries, it is about the future of the US and the world.

I sure as hell hope he runs but if he doesn't, I'll figure out who to personally support in the caucus and then will support whoever wins the nomination - just like Al did in 2004.

[RestoreGore]

117. I posted this based on PRINCIPLE

I never stated what you are assuming this post was about. It is BECAUSE it would be about the future of this country that I suggested the hypothesis of his running as a FREE MAN unencumbered by ANY party politics supported only by real people who support HIM and this Constitution based on what he can offer, not because of what letter is next to his name. Democratic principles are not indicative of any one party in a REAL Democracy. And I could bet if that ever happened, people who are disillusioned and who haven't voted in a while might just be inclined to have some hope for this system, providing DIEBOLD didn't still run it.

Unfortunately, however, my sincere intention here has been skewed by people who place party over principle, and would then rather continue to support the same status quo waste of money thirty second sound bite backbiting popularity contest that passes for an election in this country now. I want to see the kind of government that Thomas Jefferson envisioned, being run by men and women of PRINCIPLE who do not have to sell their souls to lobbyists, corporate benefactors, networks, consultants, and powerbrokers on both sides in order to be accepted into the beltway club. I believe as Thomas Jefferson did about this, so I suppose he would be tarred and feathered here as well for being a free thinker and not conforming just because he felt he had to. I am actually a Democrat because I thought free thinking and putting the moral principle first was admired by this party as a whole, but I guess I was wrong.

[bklyncowgirl]

78. I believe that Dean related the story in his post campeign book.

He said that he briefly considered bolting the party but decided that it would be a very bad thing to do since he would almost certainly fail and would hand the election over to George Bush.

Al Gore was the person he credits with convincing him that he would harm the country if he tried a third party run. Dean then endoresed Kerry and worked hard for the campeign.

I don't have a copy of the book but I remember reading an excerpt. I bet Madfloridian would have it.

Edited to note that NYC Girl had the actual quote including page number. Next time I'll read the rest of the thread.

Sorry

[NYCGirl]

79. I posted the information (and 4 or so paragraphs from the book) above:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3078991&mesg_id=3079813

[bklyncowgirl]

81. And I just edited my post to note that you did so.

That's what I get for just jumping to my responses and not reading the thread. Thanks for letting me know I wasn't going nuts.

[NYCGirl]

83. And thank you. Sometimes (I know I do) we get too zealous in trying to help,

and just dive in.

[MonkeyFunk]

13. It wouldn't happen

but if, hypothetically, it did, I would not vote for him.

Third-party runs just ensure the winner is from the opposite side of the political spectrum.

[donheld]

14. NO! bad idea

why should he when he can run as a Democratic candidate?

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Dumb question...

A-- he keeps saying he's not running, ever, at all.

B-- NO third party candidate is going to win an election. That's just the way it is. Gore knows perfectly well what Perot, Nader, Anderson and others did and he doesn't look like he'd go through all that just to be a spoiler. He knows damn well that he wouldn't get many Republican votes and just split the Democrats.

And, to answer your question specifically, it would depend on who else is running, wouldn't it?

[SquireJons]

103. Well put, particularly the headline n/t

[liberalnurse]

17. I will never support an independent candidate.

The power is in the "collective" or the Party. An independent ticket only serves to prove a weak philosophical point....which is an "empty principle".

[Cameron27]

145. Correct...

Why not skip the middle man, and just vote republican. My money and my support will remain with Democratic candidates.

[demnan]

19. Al is a Democrat

and so am I

[RestoreGore]

36. Actually, Mr. Gore has said he is an American first

And so am I.

[Apollo11]

20. Al Gore has ruled out running as an independent

Al Gore has always supported the Democratic ticket his whole life (unlike Hillary - who supported Goldwater in 1964). He respects the primaries process and so he will always support the Dem ticket.

He has been absolutely clear on this point every time it has been raised with him.

Al Gore on Larry King Live - June 2006

KING: Will you support no matter who the Democrat is?

GORE: I'm certain.

KING: Will you support Hillary?

GORE: I'm certain I'd support the nominee.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/13/lkl.01.html

So if Al Gore is not the Democratic nominee in 2008, he will work hard to support the nominee (even if it is Hillary). Just like he worked hard to help John Kerry in 2004 - speaking at the National Convention and rallies in Hawaii and other states (even tho he had endorsed Dean in the primaries).

The only way we will get Al Gore as our President is if we can create the conditions for him to enter the race and get endorsed as the nominee by the Democratic National Convention in Denver, August 25-28, 2008.

However, right now it is too soon for Al Gore to announce himself as a candidate (on this point I agree with the article in the latest Rolling Stone - see www.rollingstone.com). My feeling is that he should make his decision in September and maybe wait to announce on November 4th - exactly one year before election day!

By the way -- I see RestoreGore is not immune from the temptations of speculating about 2008! ;-)

Let's all find ways to show our support for Al Gore! :)

In Gore We Trust
www.algore.com
www.algore.org
www.draftgore.com - Sign the petition!
www.draftgore2008.org
www.patriotsforgore.com

[RestoreGore]

32. Then I suppose people really don't want change

I was simply asking a question based on the support level for Mr. Gore here. I also don't recall ever stating that elections were not important to me, however, I HAVE stated that the current corporate owned, military industrial complex, media propagandist system you all want Mr. Gore to run in that he even stated he has fallen out of love with is not good enough for him in my view, and it certainly is not something I can support. So by making conditions right as you stated, what do you mean by that? Because if all you mean by it is getting some delegates to a convention to draft him into that current corporate owned, military industrial complex, media propagandist system, you are doing nothing in changing a damn thing because that doesn't happen anymore exactly because we live in a corporate owned, military industrial complex, media propagandist system. And I know that from experience. It has to be SWEPT CLEAN first, and you don't do that by becoming one of them, which again led me to this hypothetical question because from what I see it ain't about to change in the next year either.

[Vinca]

21. I would support him if he ran as a Democrat.

If he ran as an Independent it would split the party and hand the election to the 'pukes. Sorry if I'm violating your "principle" rule, but it's the truth. I'm not willing to endure years more of war, years more of corporate coddling, years more of no health care and years more of doing nothing about global warming, job outsourcing and border security. Split the vote and that's what we'll have. You know it and I know it and all the principles in the world won't change it. Vote your heart in the primaries, your head in the general election.

[ms liberty]

22. I would support him, even if he ran as a Communist...

But we all know that Al Gore would never run as anything but a Democrat.

[Le Taz Hot]

23. I support or don't support the person.

This goose-stepping to the party line shit has got to stop. It leaves us settling for people like John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. I'd support Gore in a heartbeat. He'd get TONS of support from the "nutroots" and I believe a whole lot of support from people who don't necessarily vote for Democrats -- much like the support Howard Dean got.

[wyldwolf]

24. not even for a second. I would support a Democrat who is the polar opposite of my leanings...

...than support an independent who thinks more like I do.

[catgirl]

25. Ridiculous

Sure, just when the dems kick ass in the midterm elections.
Al Gore is no Lieberman and he'll win the primaries as a dem.

Silly question.

[RestoreGore]

31. It's not a silly question

If it was to you then why did you respond? Again, I wasn't directing this in regards to putting PARTY first because I don't do that. I have voted for Democrats in my life because I saw them as the best candidate, not because they had a D next to their names. I voted for Al Gore because of the man he is as well, and would vote for him anytime any day anywhere no matter what party he represented or even if he represented NO party because of who he is, providing it was NOT in this BS toxic beltway that it seems so many still support even for all of their defensiveness when such a question is asked about really standing up to it. What is to silly about having principles and wishing to live them?

How many years have Democrats been talking about universal healthcare? Where is it? All the people ever hear from both sides are candidates always "talking" about it during election cycles, then nothing... then four years later, back to the same soundbites... then nothing... nothing but excuses and more being taken from us. How long do you ( in general) expect people out here to hold on and vote for people on either side when they only feel used?

We couldn't even get a minimum wage through clean even with a Democratic majority that "kicked ass" in the midterms (more than likely because people are just fed up with the war) NOW because the Republicans sideswiped it! What the hell was that all about? We have been fighting, working, and voting for years for the American dream they say they will help deliver to us... WHERE IS IT? Oh wait, now 2008 will be the year... then 2012... Then we will be told again to "be patient" and that the war will end soon. HOW much longer are we supposed to wait and support people who are just placed there as vehicles of the elitists who really run this government to blow smoke up our butts?

I also talk to people out here in the real world every day who are simply FED UP with government in general. So I fielded a hypothetical question because in all honesty the scenario I described would genuinely EXCITE ME about a process I no longer have faith in. It would make me feel as though the spirit of the Founding Fathers was alive again. I'm tired of having no other choice, of being forced to go a certain way, and of being made to think that I am some sort of traitor for wanting to live my principles and see them emulated in my government and hold people in government responsible for not doing that accountable on ALL sides. If that is silly to you, so be it. I simply thought that others felt that way as well and that the popularity surrounding the constant and redundant begging for Al Gore to run came from the heart rather than just wanting to have his name because of his movie on a ticket just to "win." I now know better. So thank you all for your responses.

The next year will be very tellng to me regarding what the Democrats are REALLY going to do in order to distunquish themselves in this corporate run system. Will they continue supporting the status quo and only giving us "investigations" that will once again lead to nowhere just for show to set up 2008, or are we going to really see some ass being kicked, some oaths finally being upheld, and some real progress on issues being made besides using this war now as an issue for their next election? I hope so, because if I don't see it, I may just for the first time in my life have a huge quandary to deal with.

[New Earth]

41. I guess I am th eonly one here who sees what you are saying.

If he did run as an independent, I think I would vote for him. I want him to be President so bad. Especially if I did not like the Dem candidate, like Hilary :/

I am SO tired of hearing that a third party candidate will always give a win to the Republicans. So we are to have 2 parties forever and ever and ever? That is bullshit. The only way it is going to change, is to LET it change. It wouldn't be perfect overnight, but I think eventually it would even out, especially if someone as popular and well liked as Gore ran as a third party. I hope he runs as a Dem, if he runs at all, but if he ran as an independent I would still support him, unless for some reason the Dem candidate was my ideal.

[RestoreGore]

46. Well, in this hypothesis

I see it as the only way to really sweep this system clean and get a fresh start by really putting our country first, and really the only way I would be happy to see him run again, unless of course, we have that enlightenment we so drastically need in this country. I couldn't stomach seeing him being involved with all of the same people who actually helped bring us to this point, and in ANY WAY divert from his work on this climate crisis. And as you say, we need to think about getting over this party mentality in general that actually gave us Bush in the first place because of Republicans who also only vote for the letter instead of the person. Political parties in general in my view tend to stifle progress when you reach the point that the good ole boys run them.

[Bridget Burke]

60. So, "Democrats & Republicans are just the same"

Let me guess. You voted for Nader in 2000?

I voted for Gore. And for Kerry in 2004. I'd love to vote for Gore again in 2008. But I'm quite sure that, if he decides to run, he will do so as a Democrat.

[RestoreGore]

67. Is Bush Still In the White House?

If they do not move to impeach him and his thugs, and still allow Republicans to sideswipe them on minimum wage and other issues, what else can one think by their own inactions but that they on some level want him there for some purpose? And I don't know for sure if you were responding to me, but I voted for Al Gore in 2000... and again, not because is a Democrat, but because of the man he is. That is actually the point I am trying to make now which some seem to be missing.

[Bridget Burke]

69. Well you've missed the point that others have been making.

Gore would not run as an Independent.

[RestoreGore]

71. Oh I get it alright

And also that people don't even want to answer the question I posed about supporting him IF he ever did. All they want to do is call people traitors for exercising their freedom of thought.

[SquireJons]

108. I don't think you do.

The issue here is not whether you can exercise your freedom of thought. The issue is whether your thought has merit, which it clearly does not. Of course individual citizens are free to follow the dictates of their conscience. And that, of course, would include Al Gore. If he decided to split the Democrats in 2008 and allow the republicans to retain the White House, he has that right. But fortunately for the country, he's not that much of an idiot (unlike Nader).

If Gore ran as an independent, there is only one possible outcome (President McCain!?), and you seem to be advocating it. Gore himself would tell you that you're full of shit for even suggesting it, if he weren't being diplomatic, but regardless of what he would say, that's what he would mean.

[Tactical Progressive]

157. You know, we all understand how you feel

We understand because we feel the same way.

But when you ask this essential question, commonly asked by people who respect ideology but not politics:

"What is so silly about having principles and wishing to live them?"

The answer is that, without the politics to make them happen, 'wishing to live your principles' in your head translates into >>> everybody being forced to live Bush-Cheney-Scalia-Delay principles in the real world.

You're missing the connection between our progressive principles and the real world: the Democratic party. And even if that Democratic party is only three inches forward, that's better than the alternative of three feet back. Look how easy it is for them to destroy things in just a few short years.

Learn to like, or at least respect, politics, and not just your principles.

[elocs]

26. No, I would not support Gore if he ran as an independent.

I am a Democrat and I vote for Democrats. If Gore were the Democratic nominee I would joyfully vote for him. If Gore were to run as an independent, the result would be the election of the Republican candidate. Gore would not take enough votes from the Republican nominee to win. I suspend reality when I am watching movies or tv, not for real life.

[blondeatlast]

27. Sorry--as much as I'd like to see him in the WH, he wouldn't have a chance.

We must take back this country from the NeoCons.

[More Than A Feeling]

29. In the following scenario, I would:

If a strong candidate who mostly had appeal to GOPers were also running as an independent or third party candidate, and I would have to hold my nose and keep a vomit bag close by to vote for the Democratic nominee. Then both parties would split, and the odds of Gore actually getting elected as an independent would increase substantially.

[crispini]

55. Been there, done that, it didn't work.

We had a similar scenario with four gubernatorial candidates down here in the last election.

Rick Perry, the Republican's Republican.
Carole Strayhorn, a Republican who decided to run as a moderate Independent.
Kinky Friedman, a maverick Libertarian type with some attraction to Democrats, running as an Independent.
Chris Bell, the Democrat, a moderate-leaning Dem.

Who won?
*drumroll*

The Republican's Republican. Welcome to four more years of shitty government.

The fact of the matter is that the Republicans are far better at voting "lockstep" for their party than we are. They are a much more top-down, strong-power, authoritarian type of party. They are better organized -- especially these days, with the rise of the religious right, which wasn't quite so true in Poppy Bush's day (I'm thinking of Perot now).

I dunno, if the field, as you posit, was Hillary - Gore (I) - Giuliani (I) - and, oh, let's say Brownback for shits and grins .... ok, in that case, I'd probably give some serious consideration for voting for Gore. Interesting hypothetical! :rofl:

[RestoreGore]

56. Neither did a draft n/t

[enough already]

30. Won't happen, but....

....if the choice is Hillary, Random Puke, or Al, I'm going Al.

[frogcycle]

34. i would immediately become an independent

actually, if he did it, which i doubt, i expect he'd run under some sort of 3d party banner. I'd join that party, no questions asked, if he did. two words: Leadership (he has it) and Loyalty (I have it)

I am loyal to those I respect, NOT to a "party" that is an aggregation of people, many good, some not so good.

[RestoreGore]

37. Thank you, I agree n/t

[New Earth]

43. I wish there were more like you

if more people thought like that, A THIRD PARTY WOULD WIN!!

[RestoreGore]

50. Actually, our country would win...

If we put principles first regardless of our political stance. All of the partisan political backbiting ( based on of course, the root of all of it, money) only inhibits that, so I surely think it is time to try something new.

[rinsd]

38. Al Gore will run as a Democrat or he will not run.

If he were to run as an independent, I would not support him.

Also if he were to run as an independent he would likely lose and split the center and left vote giving a Republican the White House.

[RestoreGore]

49. That's hogwash

Then all of the love here for him is then really not for HIM or his work. Thanks for making that clear. And again, your logic is skewed. If you believe he could win in a "landslide" as a Democrat, why wouldn't he do so no matter how he ran? I then hope he doesn't run. Who needs this shit from people demanding of him what THEY want him to do?

[rinsd]

66. Hogwash? WTF are you talking about?

"Then all of the love here for him is then really not for HIM or his work."

Even if every registered DUer was completely in love with Gore that is all of 100K people.

And yes if he were to abandon the Democratic party in order to do an independent run many would turn against him. We're Democrats and believe in the Democratic party as the best means of acheiving many of our shared goals and beliefs.

"Thanks for making that clear."

I made nothing clear. I simply stated my opinion.

"And again, your logic is skewed."

My logic is skewed? You're getting bent out of shape over a hypothetical that is so unlikely that the question istself is laughable.

And this is your logic; DUers love Gore. Democrats love Gore. Therefore if Gore leaves the Democratic Party to run against it DUers and Democrats will still love Gore.

"If you believe he could win in a "landslide" as a Democrat, why wouldn't he do so no matter how he ran? "

I believe most of the Dem field should win. While I think Gore would certainly garner support I don't think it would be enough to win vs. a Democrat and Republican. And by splitting the vote (even if he beats the Democratic candidate) means a Republican plurality is likely.

[RestoreGore]

70. So you can't believe in Democratic principles unless you belong to a party?

I too am a registered Democrat, but at this point I'm still waiting to see those principles fulfilled and am running out of patience. And I am not getting bent out of shape at all, I'm simply repsonding to you because yes, I do believe that if you are loyal to someone you stick with them. I could never comprehend people who simply vote based on partyline regardless of party, especially if that party goes against their principles.

[paulk]

39. all he would do is split the vote

and help elect a Republican.

so I wouldn't vote for him under the circumstance you lay out...

in fact I find your reasoning somewhat absurd

[RestoreGore]

42. That 's a copout

Then I suppose all the remarks being made here about him "winning in a landslide" are just bs being thrown out here?

[paulk]

57. yes, all the remarks made around here about him

"winning in a landslide" are bullshit. If you rely on DU to make your political prognostications for you, I predict you are going to end up disappointed. DU, as a whole, is consistantly wrong in it's polls and picks vis a vis elections...

Just because the same left that trashed Gore in 2000 now find him desirable is no reason to think the rest of the country will have changed it's mind.


Why is it a "copout" to want to win an election? Al Gore, running as an independent, would have no better chance of winning than any third party candidate would in our electoral system. I find your way of looking at things - supporting a candidate who cannot win - a copout.

[RestoreGore]

62. Believe me, I don't rely on DU or any site to do that for me

Not really into prognotstication as a rule either, and I can think for myself. And once more, this was simply a hypothetical, and actually, I find your response and responses like it to not be indicative of what Democracy should really be all about. But again, go ahead and follow the partyline pick and then whine when nothing changes and ths status quo remains intact. Then don't wonder why there are so many disllusioned Americans in this country and those who wish to seek something more than the SOS.

[paulk]

76. then why did you cite DU?

I assumed you were trying to say something by referencing DU....

What do you think democracy is about? I think democracy is about political representation - and, in our system, that means getting elected. You can talk about hypotheticals all day, and the way you wish things were, but in the end that's all it amounts to - talk.

Your line here:

"go ahead and follow the partyline pick and then whine when nothing changes" seems especially ironic, considering that you're advocating for Gore. Are you trying to say there's no real difference between the parties? That Gore would have been the same as GW Bush?

What, exactly, is your point?

[New Earth]

44. that just doesn't make sense to me.

if the SAME people that would vote for him as a Dem would vote for him as an Independent, then he WOULD STILL WIN.

[RestoreGore]

47. There you go

And since as he rightfully claims this political system is TOXIC why should he be forced to run as part of that, if he TRULY in HIS heart wants to do this? Why people who claim to support him as a MAN wouldn't support him regardless is beyond me, especially regarding him REALLY standing up for his words and living his principles. But hopefully, he also sees that it apparently is not about support for him as a man for the most part to many on these Internet groups, but simply a few sites pumping up his name to get it out heree to be "competition" with the candidates they don't like. I don't know, but to me this should go so much deeper than just a contest between names. Perhaps that is what he will then discuss regarding his book The Assault On Reason coming out in May. His hero is also Thomas Jefferson, BTW.

[More Than A Feeling]

53. It's a classic prisoner's dilemma

All of us are so afraid that if a certain chunk of us would be inclined to support Gore the man jump to him, the rest would not and the vote would be split. Therefore, very few would actually make the jump. I suspect Gore either knows this already or would be able to figure it out, and that is why he wouldn't run on an independent ticket.

[RestoreGore]

54. Well, I suspect you are right...

And why he more than likely may not run at all then, because he simply cannot in this stage of his life compromise his principles and not live his conscience in doing what he truly believes is now more important for this planet.

[paulk]

59. except that will never happen

because the same people who would vote for him as a Dem wouldn't necessarily vote for him as an independent.

[RestoreGore]

65. Which is exactly making the point...

That putting party before country at times is not in its best interests.

[paulk]

74. that's only a point if one accepts your premise to begin with

which I don't.

[Milo_Bloom]

45. He wouldn't, but I would vote for him on any ticket.

[oasis]

58. Gore's no traitor to the party. I dare anyone to ask him to defect.(eom)

:spank:

[RestoreGore]

64. Oy vey n/t

[oasis]

77. Ask him in person to betray Dems and Al will give you an "inconvenient boot".

:kick:

[RestoreGore]

122. Why are you twisting my words?

Who said anything about betraying anyone? And he isn't as rude as some people here should an adult ask him a question in a civil manner, especially regarding this Democracy.

[oasis]

126. It's not in Gore's character to be disloyal. He would wince at the thought of

a Republican winning the WH as a result of votes being siphoned off from his old party.

Especially after what happened in 2000.

Yup, Al would see it as a betrayal, and so would every member of the Democratic Party.

[RestoreGore]

131. Right.That's why Bush still "won" In 2004

Let's just continue to allow people to run who will then betray our country instead. Sounds like a plan to me. And you know what, you don't KNOW for SURE that a Republican would win in this scenario (that is of course unless the Democratic Party allows them to steal it again.) There are MILLIONS of people in this country who do not vote now BECAUSE they are sick and tired of the current set up. How do you know this scenario wouldn't actually bring all of those disillusioned people out of the woodwork? Those who put party before country always use that same line to make those who consider country more important feel guilty for daring to think for themselves, and it is entirely unfair to me. I have voted Democratic all of my life because I have seen their candidates many times as just being the best of two evils, until of course, Al Gore came along. Is that any way for people to have to vote in this country? I'm tired of voting AGAINST someone. I want to vote FOR someone, and I want to do it knowing I am NOT voting in a corrupted system backed by corporate donors who write policy and wage wars in my name, which I do everytime I vote for those representing parties that enable such things.
And I do believe there will come a time when the great majority of Americans WILL get totally fed up with this system as it is run and not vote in greater numbers unless it changes drastically. Again, I am a registered Democrat, but that doesn't mean I put the party before what I believe is best for my country when the party is not doing what is best for my country. That isn't a betrayal, that is loving my country, and right now I don't see anything happening in Congress even with a Democratic majority that makes me believe much will change in the next year. I hope to be surprised, but at this point I'm not holding my breath.

[saltpoint]

61. I think Al Gore would only consider running as a Democrat,

but to play along, I'd consider voting for him under certain conditions.

If the GOP nominates Kiss-ass McCain, Mobster Giuliani, or Nitwit Mitt Romney, it's at least possible that Brownback or someone even worse would split the GOP and run an independent ultra-conservative, prayer-in-the-schools, kill-the-gays campaign on the far, far Right. It would split the GOP vote and theoretically give us the election.

But if our candidate veers too far center-right and were to be a pro-Iraq nominee, or perceived as too pro-Iraq by the more liberal base, an independent run by Gore or Kucinich might be plausible. That would split OUR vote as well, and make the election a 4-way dogfight.

In a case like that I could give a peace candidate a vote, but would prefer we nominate someone already committed to negotiated peace in the Middle East. I don't want our vote split. I want THEIR vote split.

[MODemocrat]

72. I would not support anyone but a Democratic Candidate

Why should we even believe Al Gore will run anyway? He doesn't even know what he wants to do.:shrug:

[catgirl]

73. Why would you only support a democrat?

Al Gore will never run as an Independent, but IF
he did...I would vote for him because he is the best
candidate.

I would never vote for a republican, but to be so
exclusive as to ONLY vote for a dem is silly.

[oasis]

82. "To be so exclusive as to ONLY vote for a Dem is silly." Joe Lieberman's campaign

literature said exactly the same thing. :banghead:

[catgirl]

85. Exactly the same thing?

If there was a good Independent I'd vote
for him/her. Lieberman only ran as one
because he LOST in the dem. primaries.
Gore wouldn't have to go that route because
he's popular and he'll win.

[oasis]

86. "Essentially" the same, "Dump the Dem Party for x, y or z's agenda".

Same old sales pitch.

[catgirl]

133. "same old sales pitch"

maybe in the repug party. I haven't seen too many people
ditching the dem party and going elsewhere. Only
Lieberman because he's a loser.

[PresidentObama]

75. If Gore runs as Independent, and Hillary runs as Democrat.

I'd vote for Gore, easily.

Not to say I want nor think Hillary will get the nomination.

I hope Al Gore runs, and as a Democrat. Because America and the Democratic party could use his vision and leadership in these troubled times.

:patriot: Run Al, run! America needs you, kind sir!!

[Buzz Clik]

80. I'd vote for Gore as an Independent only if Nader ran as a Democrat

[Madspirit]

84. Only the well-fed..

Only white, well-fed, middle class, insured, heterosexuals can afford these kind of armchair politics. Those not personally affected, day-to-day, by who is in the White House, are the only ones who can afford to play these games. If someone split the vote again, I would NEVER forgive them.

I would spit on Nader if I ever ran into him. Then I would goad him into pulling the first punch. I'm a leftist not a pacifist. I would kind of like to smack him around a bit. A lot of people have DIED...yes, DEAD, belly-up, bought the farm, adios Baby...because of what he did to the vote.

Real Lives depend on who is in the White House. This isn't some kind of philosophical game.
Madspirit

[crispini]

87. Nothing to say except....

:patriot:

[Madspirit]

90. I like Gore

I was speaking about third party candidates. Gore would not do what was done to him.
Madspirit

[Madspirit]

91. ...another Texan...

I read your post above. Grrrr Carol and Kinky.
Madspirit *another Texan screwed by people splitting the vote*

[crispini]

92. Hi Austin!

:hi: Yeah, I knew Perry would win, and he did. Meh. That said, I do hope we find someone a little more fiesty than Chris Bell next time. :D

[MessiahRp]

88. If Hillary were the Democratic choice? I'd vote for Gore no matter what party

Look I'm 100% all for party loyalty and voting for candidates without a real shot just to make a statement about two party politics (the statement ultimately doesn't matter unless you count every principal you believe in being destroyed at the hands of the Republicans that got in thanks to your vote not going for their opponent) is stupid.

But Gore would have a legit shot to win and I honestly think Hillary would get crushed by Gore. He would carry the liberals and most of the moderates. She would carry a few moderates and angry at her party conservatives. The Republican would carry the crazy christian right wingers.

That being said, I think Gore would win. This would be voting for something real, not just making a symbolic statement that ultimately pisses away your values for the next four years.

Rp

[Ignacio Upton]

89. After seeing a third party candidate cost him his chance at the White House

It's VERY unlikely that he'll go indy.

[Orangepeel]

93. Maybe I'd ride a flying pig to the polling place.

If Gore ran as an independent, I'd kind of think he'd lost his mind, so it would be hard for me to vote for him. Gore is a loyal Democrat. He wouldn't do it.

[Vidar]

94. Not going to happen.

[mzmolly]

95. I adore Al Gore, he's my dream candidate, but I could not assist in the division

of liberal votes.

[here_is_to_hope]

96. Me! But I dont think he would do it.. n/t

[marlakay]

97. Vote for him no matter what

but he wouldn't do it like others have said.

[Hippo_Tron]

98. Depends on how well he polled, if he was polling significantly better than the Democrat

Then I would probably support him and encourage the Democrat to drop out of the race and get the party machinery behind Gore. If Gore was polling below the Democrat, then I would not support him and encourage him to get out of the race and not split the Democratic vote.

But this is a silly question. There's nothing to suggest that Gore thinks running as an independent would be more beneficial to the country than supporting the Democratic nominee.

[RestoreGore]

120. I never interjected what Mr. Gore thinks into this post.

And wouldn't do that.

[MrSlayer]

100. It would depend on who the major party candidates were.

Certain people could turn me off enough to go for Gore the Independent.

[SquireJons]

101. Right, and how about Gore/Lieberman in '08?

There's a dream Independent ticket, with Ralph Nader as Lieberman's new gay husband. While we're at it, why not just disband the Democratic party and rename the country "The Republican States of Enron Jesus?"

Sheesh... some people don't seem to have the sense that god gave them.

[marlakay]

105. God I forgot he ran with him

I am sure he would get attacked with that......

[SquireJons]

111. Me too, until I wrote it down.

Then I said, "holy crap" (and meant it). Don't you just wonder how Gore feels about his decision to select the biggest traitor to the Democratic party in several generations as his running mate? I'm sure he sees it as one of the biggest mistakes of his life. I certainly do.

[smoogatz]

107. If Jesus Christ showed up at my door and offered me a free time share

on Maui, I might develop an interest in visiting the tropics. And I might be forced to reconsider the few conclusions I've come to regarding the veracity of the New Testament. If it happens, I'll let you know how the whole thing turns out.

[aaronbees]

128. .....

:rofl:

Best post in the thread.

[Apollo11]

158. AMEN !!

Wait .. a pig just flew by my window ... ;-)

[Beam Me Up]

109. I would.

Al Gore is a great man and would make a great president, hands down. That's why "they" had no interest in allowing him into the oval office -- and I suspect would do anything to prevent him from ever getting there. But then my world view is shaped by the awareness that nothing is as it is presented in the corporate owned media. The awareness, for example, that 9/11, which has been the catalyst for everything from the 'patriot act' to the 'war on terror,' was orchestrated from within the national security state apparatus itself. In short, if you think the last six years of politics has been "politics as usual" you and I don't share anything resembling a common ground of understanding and there's really no point in discussing it further.

[w4rma]

110. Why would he run as an indy when he can win the Democratic primary? (nt)

[smoogatz]

116. Now there's an excellent question.

Why indeed? Lots of advantages to running within the party structure--especially where money and organization are concerned. If he ran as an indy, he'd likely split the center/left vote with the Dem candidate and hand the White House to McCain, or whoever. If he runs as a Dem, he wins the whole enchilada.

[RestoreGore]

119. You don't know that n/t

[w4rma]

121. Yes I do. (nt)

[RestoreGore]

123. Based on what? n/t

[w4rma]

125. An analysis of the situation. (nt)

[RestoreGore]

132. Wow, thanks for that indepth elaboration. n/t

[druidity33]

112. maybe

If the DNC refused to give him the nod... or if the Dem Party itself screwed him somehow. He would be our best candidate and i would be irate if he was willing to run and the Party wouldn't let him.

[Nictuku]

113. I would!

[citizen snips]

114. Al Gore is not going to run

democrat or independent.

[RestoreGore]

118. I really don't belieive so either

And I am OK with it should he not ever run again, because he is a great man doing a great thing now, and I support him in it 100% and understant what must be done. Too bad so many don't really appreciate that either. This was simply a hypothesis for a way for him to get around that toxic system if he really had it in his heart. In reality though, I don't think he does anymore, and frankly, I don't blame him one damn bit.

[cascadiance]

115. What if the ticket were Gore/Sanders?

That would be tempting for me! Bernie would be almost as good as Feingold as a running mate for him!

On the other hand, like others said, without instant runoff voting in place yet, we need to focus on winning first and then take those steps later.

[rhombus]

124. No. Gore is too wise for that

won't happen.

[leftstreet]

127. What's his platform?

:shrug:

If he ran as an FDR new dealer on single-payer health care, gutting free trade and bringing new jobs back home, corporate ass-whooping and environmental solutions, he'd probably win in an impressive landslide as an Indy. He'd do VERY well in the west and he'd bring a major chunk of non, and no longer, voters to US voting booths.

But if he ran as a (beltway faux Dem) indy tossing "we must insure our children" :cry: cookies to the latte liberals, he'd Perot-ette the Repub candidate into the WH.

But I'm sure he already knows that.

[liberalla]

129. I support Al Gore. Period.

If he wants to run as a Leprechaun, I'm with him! :bounce:

[Dervill Crow]

134. I would. Maybe. Probably. I don't know. Scary question. n/t

[northquest]

135. Support for Al Gore

I think if Al Gore gets into the race he will do it as a Democrat. If he does not run as a Democrat he will more then likely not run. The question then becomes how do people show there support for what both he and they stand for and how can he best lead us successfully outside the beltway....He is smart enough to not divide the Democratic Party,because this is a two party system like it or not.We do not want or need another right wing republican as our president. We do need leadership outside of Washington and someone to spearhead how we move forward. If Al Gore does not run in '08 I think he would do well to establish him self as that person. I will continue to support Al Gore and the causes he has taken on because he has made a huge positive impact on so many not only in the U.S but the World. Bob North (Organizer - Baltimore Draft Al Gore Meetup Group )

[RestoreGore]

137. Then I hope he doesn't run...

Because pundits claim that more money will be spent than has ever been spent on a campaign for 2008, and I think that is a travesty and a huge waste of money. Which is why I will not support any draft or give any money to such a movement when the money could be used to support organizations helping to solve this crisis now. That window on the tipping point closes the longer we spin our wheels on this crisis and only use it as an excuse for our own political agendas. It is obvious however, that that message of urgency is lost to many.

And imagine how many hungry children we could feed with the millions of dollars these people are raising just to look good on TV. Everyone in New Orleans could have a new home with that money! I honestly do not believe that Mr. Gore would allow millions to be pissed away on petty BS thirty second ads when this world is in crisis. When he could put that money to better use to save this planet now. That is why he started the Alliance for Climate Protection that no one here talks about. That is why he donated all of the proceeds from his book and movie to that organization. I do not see him pissing away millions of dollars on a popularity contest just to be "elected" by the military industrial complex as their spokesperson. I do not believe he is one of them and it would be disappointing to think he was, which was why I suggested this hypothetical. However, since it is apparent that he would not do this, then I hope he continues to be the environmental advocate, leader, and statesman this world needs to inspire the grassroots to the seachange we will need to see to save this planet.

[vote 4 democracy]

138. You're right. Gore is the man to lead us out of this disaster no matter what.

[RestoreGore]

141. Yes, absolutely. Lead us, but then we too must lead. n/t

[sueh]

140. Me, me, me, me!!!!

I want Al and I'd vote for him regardless of which party he's affiliated with.

[mod mom]

142. I support the candidate over the party. It's time we quit blind following of a label

(ie party) and look into the reality of the substance, otherwise we are no better the repukes. I am a Conyers/Feingold/Boxer/Kucinich Dem, an can't support those Dems who stray outside the foundation of the party.

I SUPPORT GORE!

[MaineDem]

143. I don't think I would...but it will never happen anyhow

I also think this thread is dangerously close to promoting a third-party candidate over a Democrat. Not kosher by DU rules.

[JCastillon]

146. Didn't he already run as an Independent in 2000 and lose?

Al Gore's obsession in trying to distance himself from Clinton in 2000 might as well have made him an Independent. His constant focus on pandering for votes instead of understanding the true democratic values is what cost him the election. He even picked LIeberman as his second mate - who how convenient is now an Independent.

Who is the real Al Gore? He changes so much I can't even keep track.

I've watched Wesley Clark for years now and maybe it's bias (because I do like the guy), but he has pretty much stuck to what he believes in and hasn't done a bunch of stupid stunts that ended up back firing on him (remember the kiss?)

Al, please stick with the one thing I think you are right on target with and that's waking up the world to the environmental disaster that is upon is. You do this very well and it's working.

[MasonJar]

147. Al would not do that. If he runs, it will be as a dem. If he were to run

as an independent, I probably would not vote for him. As a dem, he has my vote. He is my #1 choice with Hillary 2nd.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

148. Suppose bush declared himself a Democrat.

Would you still vote to impeach him? Just theoretically speaking, that is.

[RestoreGore]

154. Hell yes! n/t

[bluehighways911]

149. No Freakin Way

And I love Gore. As a Dem, I'd vote for him even ahead of Obama. Maybe.

But INDY. This is the worst idea I have ever heard. Why not let McCain run unopposed. Same Damn Thing.

Why would anyone waste any time on this?

Why am I wasting time on this?

You are not making the Gore Core look very good right now.

[Apollo11]

155. Check my post #20 above

Gore has promised to support the Democratic nominee (as he has always done).

Nothing posted here on DU can cancel out what Gore himself said on CNN.

Let's all find ways to show our support for Al Gore! :)

Read Rolling Stone magazine: WHY GORE SHOULD RUN -- AND HOW HE CAN WIN
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13248532/why_gore_should_run__and_how_he_can_win

Get ready for Al Gore's next book - The Assault on Reason - out in May!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/16/AR2006091600877.html

Visit the following pro-Gore websites:
www.algore.com
www.algore.org
www.draftgore.com - Sign the petition! :)
www.draftgore2008.org
www.patriotsforgore.com

:kick:

[hippiechick]

150. Even though he probably wouldn't do it, I'd support him ...

... and work my little hippie toosh off for him.

[napi21]

151. NOPE! I'm not convinced he would run any better campaign than he did

the last time. Don't give me the crap about he won. Had he not held out to only count specific Fl districts, and agreed to recount the whole State, he would have been shown the winner, but he, or his advisors wouldn't do that.

He listened way to much toa bunch of handlers and wasn't himself during that campaign, and although he's gotten much more outspoken recently, I think that's because he isn't campaigning. I think he'd fall right back into the "I've got to look good to all the voters" attitude if he ran again, and we don't need that.

[BlueIris]

152. If it comes down to Billary, Obama, Edwards or a partyless Gore...

um...I'd consider voting for him. Especially against Edwards or the good senator from Illinois. But that would be a really, really tough call for me.

[HeeBGBz]

153. I would

I'd be tempted to write him in if I had to.