CLARK: If we could change people’s mind without using the military, we’ll all be a lot more secure

[FrenchieCat]

I believe that this quote is one of my favorite that I have heard in reference to why we need more diplomacy and less bellicose pronouncements as of yesterday.

As the leading nation in this world, this posture would go a long way to calming the world down.

It's not telling us what we don't know, but reminding us of what we should know, but that this administration and some of our candidates have forgotten.

Bush has made it alright for the United States to talk a lot of shit at and about other nations. When will we get a leader that talks "TO" and listens to other nations...which is how it should have always been? :shrug:

More from Wes Clark....
"in terms of the economy there’s a lot of ordinary Americans out there working really really hard and not getting much for it compared to what the top level people are getting in this economy and I think in term of the War in Iraq, that adding 21,000 troops that it’s a political problem, it’s going to take diplomatic and political work, we need to talk to the countries in the region. This administration threatens Iran but it won’t talk to Iran. And Alan, my point is this: why will the most powerful country in the world not deign to speak to a country like Iran? You could…you’ve got all the trump cards you need on Iran, but can’t you at least…can’t we at least talk to them?

I think that the…the…the statements about Iran continue to ratchet up the pressure and uh, lay the groundwork for taking action. And I think it’s very dangerous."

http://securingamerica.com/node/2163

[blm]

1. Why does media ignore the voices of reason on this?

Oh yeah....media owners WANT war with Iran, too. They make so much BIG money off their parent defense-industry companies.

[xultar]

2. I truly believe the fuckers are scared of Clark. They know he could have won

in 2004.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Considering the 2004 media silence on Clark, in particular after Iowa,

I'm amazed he was still able to come in 3rd in New Hampshire, and go on to win an actual primary that wasn't his home state. Others had robocalls from sports heros and such....and with less press than a mouse on vacation, Clark certainly won that state....and came in 2nd in some important southwest states behind Kerry.

The fascinating part is to understand that IF Clark had some free media like the others, just think of what he could do.

[xultar]

15. ZING!!! BANG!!!! BOOM!!!! Exactly.

[blm]

9. McAuliffe wouldn't let anyone win 2004 and why he never bothered to secure election process.

for the entire four years he was charged with the duty to do so.

Be glad that Clark wasn't put through what happened to Kerry from our party's 'elite' assholes. He's relatively unscathed for now, until they train their radar on him. Now, it suits their needs to ignore him.

[FrenchieCat]

10. Clark has some very revealing podcast about the election machines

and lack of election security and such right on his site..... http://securingamerica.com/taxonomy/term/22

August 28, 2006
ClarkCast 023 - Election Integrity Summary
(Click to listen or download)
In this edition of the ClarkCast, we summarize the highlights of this months discussion of election integrity in the US. General Clark and our noted experts point out the problems with the current election system, look to potential future problems, and remind us of the importance of free and fair elections to a modern democracy. We hope these interviews and discussions have helped motivate you take action in your state to protect the security of our elections. Listen, then share your thoughts with the Clark Community at http://securingamerica.com/ccn.



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August 20, 2006
ClarkCast 022 - The Security Of Our Elections, Part II
(Click to listen or download)
In this edition of the ClarkCast, we finish our two-part series on the importance of election security. In a roundtable format, Clark supporter MSinLA probes deeper into the current state of US elections with Dr. David Dill, Mark Crispin Miller, and California State Senator Debra Bowen -- candidate for California Secretary of State. Listen, then share your thoughts with the Clark Community at http://securingamerica.com/ccn.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

August 15, 2006
ClarkCast 021 - The Security Of Our Elections
(Click to listen or download)
In the first of a two-part series, Clark supporter MSinLA interviews noted experts on the topic of elections and election security. In discussing a broad range of potential voting inaccuracies, these interviews tell us much about our current system and how it might be subverted.


With the 2006 mid-term elections less than three months away, the integrity of our voting process is a crucial matter. We hope these interviews will motivate you to take action in your state to protect the integrity of our election system. Listen, then share your thoughts with the Clark Community at http://securingamerica.com/ccn.




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August 8, 2006
ClarkCast 020 - Election Integrity
(Click to listen or download)
On the heels of the Connecticut Democratic Primary, General Clark brings the issues of the 2006 elections into sharp focus. He talks about the value of voting and, most importantly, how critical it will be to assure that these elections are conducted with integrity. Listen, then share your thoughts with the Clark Community at http://securingamerica.com/ccn.

[xultar]

16. Yet. People here still call him a Republic

[FrenchieCat]

4. Because many don't want Americans to be "secure"....

and peddle "fear" instead which is exhausting.....and drives us to be less productive....because we are stuck in the 20th century of the same ol' same ol'....instead of having arrived in the 21st century with some real innovative solutions to some old problems.

Many in this administration and the status quo folks don't understand that to change others we must work on ourselves.

[jen4clark]

21. Exactly right, blm!

Not to mention, having President Clark leading this nation, those who benefit from the corporate press and media monopoly would be knocked down a few pegs. If We The People don't wise up soon and elect someone who will expose and stand up to the powers behind the curtain, I honestly feel the decline we're witnessing now will continue until there is nothing left of this country that our founding fathers would recognize.

That General Clark had those podcasts made last summer regarding election fraud, with Clarkie ms in la interviewing Mark Crispin Miller, CA Sec. of State (then Senator) Debra Bowen, and Dr. David Dill says a lot about what this man knows. He will not stand by and allow an election to be stolen again.

If anyone's interested in reading the transcripts to those interviews -- dial-uppers or whatever -- here are the links to ms in la's blogs where she transcribed them. Elsewhere in this thread I know Frenchie Cat posted links to the podcasts.

Mark Crispin Miller on Elections --Transcript
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/7997

Dr. David Dill on Elections - ClarkCast Transcript
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/8023

Senator Debra Bowen on Elections- ClarkCast Transcript
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/8043

[The Count]

3. Good to hear on the economy from someone who actually lived it and is not

just posturing to corner "a niche".

[Adelante]

5. His domestic policies are really creative

It's a shame nobody ever hears about them.

[FrenchieCat]

19. Here's one review on his '04 tax plan.....

which was really a good one!

http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2004/02/18/opinion/myers.html

[FrenchieCat]

20. Clark rebuilt his car engine, when he could'nt afford to

do otherwise when he was in his late 40s....

[sutz12]

7. Kind of an oxymoron of a statement...

You never really change peoples' minds with military action. You can destroy or suppress, but you don't really change peoples' minds. You only do that by persuasion and communication, neither of which can be used effectively when the military is in the way. Violence only furthers the desire for payback. Given that the Shi'as and Sunnis have been back loading payback for centuries, more violence doesn't seem likely to help anything other than lengthening the lists of vengeful acts desired.

He's right about the grandstanding towards Iran. It does nothing but inflame and elicit more violence.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Unfortunately since we have "Morons" running the government....

what he says is a concept that few hear these days. :(

Considering that he was talking to a Fox audience, it was probably a brand new idea to them! :)

[The2ndWheel]

11. "As the leading nation in this world"

Yeah, but how did that happen? Militarily.

The only reason nations lower on the list listen to anything we say is because of...our military.

The reason we have all the luxuries we have? Yeah, you got it, the military.

America wouldn't exist with expansion, conquest, and empire.

[FrenchieCat]

12. I disagree.......

Maybe it is partially how we got there....
But I don't think that is how we can remain there.

That's the difference with using old ideas in a 21st Century world.

and why we are failing miserably......

You should read Clark's "Winning Modern Wars" book, if you haven't. That's what it is partially about.....

[Pithy Cherub]

13. That is a quote for the Ages!

I am embarrassed to say I had not seen it before.:blush: Thank you very much for continuing to educate!

[FrenchieCat]

14. He just said it on Tuesday.......

when he was taking Sean Hannity and the Fox audience to "school" once again.

[venable]

17. i agree with him

and, if you don't mind me mentioning a similar thing from my guy: 'It's about time that Americans became patriotic about somethng other than war'. - John Edwards.


Edwards stump speech is basically what the General says so well here: Edwards point is that if we go to the world with AIDS medicine, poverty ending programs, making a real move to end the tragedies in places like Darfur, ie show the world our better angels....that is how America becomes secure. The world will come to us, not against us.

Good for Clark. very well put.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Yes.....Darfur is a tragedy....as was Rwanda......

I guess that the U.S. is willing to use its military for things other than what it should be used for.....to stop the killing instead of increasing it.

"The United States, however, wouldn't invade Rwanda, although Clark pushed his mentor, General John Shalikashvili, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, to push for an intervention. Shalikashvili declined after Clark told him twenty thousand troops would be required, and as Clark says now, "I watched as we stood by as eight hundred thousand people were hacked to death by machete."
http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2003/030801_mfe_clark_4.html

I give Richardson Kudos in his work on Darfur as well! :thumbsup:

http://www.eamedia.org/2005/nr05/01.php
US FORCES SHOULD INTERVENE IN DARFUR, SUDAN – GEN. WESLEY CLARK
Almaty, Kazakhstan, April 23 – The United States should intervene militarily to stop the killing in the Darfur province of Sudan, General Wesley Clark told a media conference in Kazakhstan.

“US forces with a mandate and adequate cover should go in and stop the ethnic cleansing and genocide in Darfur,” he said in answer to a question. “It has gone on long enough. Enough is enough. It must stop.”

http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/USATODAY/2004/07/06/501055?extID=10026
Out of time in Darfur
By Wesley Clark and John Prendergast | Jul 06 '04

For the past year, the international community has shamefully acquiesced to the crimes against humanity occurring daily in the Sudanese province of Darfur.

"Janjaweed" militias, Arabs backed by the Sudanese government, are continuing to conduct mop-up operations against non-Arab villagers in a massive ethnic-cleansing campaign in the region. The current conflict flared early last year when two rebel groups in Darfur attacked government forces. The swelling crisis could leave hundreds of thousands dead in the coming months.

Wes Clark's involvement in attempting to get something done about it.
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/4018.html
We are waking up finally, but for many, it will be too late.

http://www.eamedia.org/2005/nr05/01.php
US FORCES SHOULD INTERVENE IN DARFUR, SUDAN – GEN. WESLEY CLARK
Almaty, Kazakhstan, April 23 – The United States should intervene militarily to stop the killing in the Darfur province of Sudan, General Wesley Clark told a media conference in Kazakhstan.

“US forces with a mandate and adequate cover should go in and stop the ethnic cleansing and genocide in Darfur,” he said in answer to a question. “It has gone on long enough. Enough is enough. It must stop.”

http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/USATODAY/2004/07/06/501055?extID=10026
Out of time in Darfur
By Wesley Clark and John Prendergast | Jul 06 '04

For the past year, the international community has shamefully acquiesced to the crimes against humanity occurring daily in the Sudanese province of Darfur.

"Janjaweed" militias, Arabs backed by the Sudanese government, are continuing to conduct mop-up operations against non-Arab villagers in a massive ethnic-cleansing campaign in the region. The current conflict flared early last year when two rebel groups in Darfur attacked government forces. The swelling crisis could leave hundreds of thousands dead in the coming months.

[venable]

22. Hear, Hear

agree.

The big question, or the question that seems to paralyze people, is exactly what is to be done in Darfur.

Since people don't know the answer to that, they do nothing, and the killing continues.

Clark has the answer - you go in. I would guess thought with other forces, all Arab, to diminish the sense that it is part of the US war on Islam.

I was in Sudan 22 years ago, as a journalist, and the war in the south was vicious, and this one-sided. At the time, you couldn't get down there except through UNHCR flights, and any travel, even aid related, was as treacherous as any place I've ever been. (I've not been to Iraq - passed on that as I am now a father)

Which is simply to say that the West has done nothing for a long time.

It is the saddest place I've ever been.

I wish Clark would be given the resources to go in. How? Don't know.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Yes go in with other forces.....and via the U.N. banner

But w/t Americans as well, as a signal that we are willing to risk our own for peace there.

Peacekeepers is the job description--

Richardson apparently negotiated a "cease fire there" although I'll have to read more on what the conditions are.....