Political Insider: Carville's comments re Gore is an attempt to hurt Obama's fundraising.

[Pirate Smile]

The Gore Game

Until April 1st, there's only one game that matters in the battle for the Democratic Presidential nomination -- the donor's game. The contest to put up the biggest first quarter fundraising number possible is intense and is prone to misinformation and stunts.

Hence, James Carville talks talks and talks some more about Al Gore getting into the race. Let's boil this down to reality:

* Carville supports Hillary Clinton
* Obama is making a hard and fast play for Hollywood money
* An Al Gore entry into the race is the only thing preventing Obama from running the table on that money in this quarter.

End of story. Gore is not running. (Admittedly, I know nothing ... but neither does Carville.)

-- Dan Conley

http://politicalinsider.com/2007/01/the_gore_game.html

edit to add - This makes sense to me. Carville is all about Hillary so his comments about Gore have seemed suspect to me. He is a political consultant. Everything he does is about helping his candidate (including his attacking Dean), that is his job.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

1. Carville Is An Asswipe

I certainly hope that Gore runs, but the fact Carville is even mentioning his name makes me wonder, and also makes me want to puke.

[jobycom]

6. He ended the Reagan/Bush era, he still has my love for that.

[Jim Sagle]

56. Ross Perot did that. Snakeman just went along for the ride - and grabbed the credit.

[ShockediSay]

59. Add McAuliffe to the Clinton "team"

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2007/01/20070126_b_main.asp

and guess what - McAuliffe is running Ms Clinton's campaign

anti Dean (Carville) anti Obama (rest of bunch, esp McAuliffe)
thinking they have a lock on the Big Bucks (spell that K Street)

and right there are a half dozen reasons at least, why I'd rather
see Hilary go down quickly

[blm]

2. Gore and Kerry should have a sitdown.

That would give Tonya Harding and her thugs some worrie$$$$.

[paulk]

14. calling Hillary Tonya Harding is a smear worthy of Karl Rove

tell me, how does smearing a Dem candidate like this fit into your fight against corruption?

[sandnsea]

19. She's corrupt, that's how

Dammit, Paul, they just ARE. Hillary does NOT want to win this primary on the issues, she is winning it on strategy RIGHT NOW. She's going to knock everybody out of the race before there even IS a race. That's how they operate. I wish to fucking hell people would wake up to them.

[blm]

31. Exactly - I WANTED Kerry on stage debating Hillary and everyone else. Hillary

and her henchmen pulled many tricks that haven't even been aired yet on DU.

Hillary is RUNNING just like George Bush did demanding that donors not give to other candidates and arrogant in her inevitability, and she's ACTING like Tonya Harding, insecure in her own abilities when it comes time to perform against others with better debate chops and policy positions than hers.

[sandnsea]

33. Gore, Feingold, Clark - SomeBody...

We're not going to have any debate on the issues at all if she has her way.

[blm]

30. It's OK for Hillary's team to snipe at good Dems but it's not OK to notice they're

doing it and be mad about it, eh?

Further - I seriously believe the Clintons have every intention of covering up for Bush2 the same way Bush1 let off the hook.

For the 'good of the country' they will move past any investigations of the many crimes of office. A complete REPEA of 1993.

And if you believe Clinton did the right thing there and the right thing in covering up CIA drugrunning in 1996, then that is YOUR conscience. Try talking to a 9-11 family who KNOWS that the roots of 9-11 can be tracked to BCCI. Try telling it to Gary Webb and the hundreds of thousands of folks in black communities all over the country that were targeted spots for the IranContra connected figures dumping their cheap cocaine under official protection by our government.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0511-29.htm

[paulk]

54. how do you know it's Hillary's team?

I'm sorry, all I've seen so far is a bunch of conjecture and conspiracy mongering. Repetition does not make your argument any stronger for me.

I don't accept your premise that Clinton 1 covered up for GHW Bush, so much as he found other things more important to focus on. You make it sound like it's all part of some giant plan.

I doubt very much, after the investigations we'll be saying these next two years, that the public will let anyone who is elected let the Bush junta off the hook.


--------------------------------


Don't make claims on my conscience. You have no idea what I've seen or done in my life. It's a really bad idea to personalize this, either with me or with the other posters on this board. All you will end up doing is making people angry with you, and angry people usually aren't willing to listen.



------------------------------

And if it is her "team", well, that's politics. I don't expect politician's to be choirboys. Kerry tried to stay above this sort of thing, and it hurt him.

[Zenlitened]

3. Hmmm... another one of these "stories" secreted by the rightwing and its dupes...

... in which Democrats are depicted as both the slimer and the slimee.

An interesting twist on their customary swiftboating technique. Now they script themselves out of the story entirely, and get twice the sleaze for the same low price. Democrats backstabbing. Democrats in palace intrigue. Democrats bad bad bad bad bad.

:eyes:

It's going to be a looooooooong primary.

[paulk]

16. fascinating, isn't it?

The Republicans put out a bowl filled with shit

and Democrats obligingly start flinging it at each other

[Pirate Smile]

17. Dan Conley isn't RW. He is a Democrat but, hey, if you don't agree with

it, it must be RW.

He may be wrong. But that doesn't mean he has to be a rightwinger or their dupe.

The over-reaction to this little blurb surprises me.

[Zenlitened]

39. No, I honestly do think he's being a dupe, playing the "Hillary Is Behind It All" game.

It just seems pointless to me -- pointless for the Democratic candidates, at any rate. I swear, if I was employed by the GOP to do opposition research, I'd make DU the first site I check every day.

Personally, I don't know who I'm going to support in the primary. It seems a long way off, and I'm willing to listen to pitches from all the Dems currently in the race or being mentioned as possibilities. And I hope DU will be a source of information, not just an echo chamber for accusations, innuendos and outright smears of Democratic candidates.

But then, I wasn't here for the last presidential primary. So maybe my optimism is a bit misplaced. :shrug:

[Pirate Smile]

41. I wasn't here either then and I'm beginning to think that made it easier to

put the Primary Wars behind me.

I expect battles(out-front and behind-the-scenes) between all the candidates.

I also expect disinformation.

I don't believe everything I read but I don't automatically dismiss everything either.


This information didn't come from DU.

It came from the Political Insider which is a new addition to the Political Wire - Taegan Goddard's Political Wire - a left leaning website describes itself as "All the political news, buzz, gossip and polls in one place!"

http://politicalwire.com/

Political Wire added Political Insider within the past six months - described as "Political Insider rounds up the latest buzz from the halls of government, press gaggles and campaign war rooms. "

[sandnsea]

21. It'll be over in a month

If the CA primary gets moved up and Obama is cut off from the money.

[crispini]

24. If the CA primary moves up, it's over.

Are they seriously considering that? Nobody would have a chance except those Dems with megabucks from the start. That would become the ultimate corporatist coronation.

[crispini]

25. Democrats are just as good as backstabbing and palace intrigue as Republicans

Ask me to tell you the story about my ex-county chair sometime. :eyes:

[stranger]

4. if you want a dem victory-stop stirring upintra party strife- if you are a closet repub-keep it up!

"By their fruits ye shall know them"

(by their posts on DU ye shall also know them.) :)

[Pirate Smile]

7. LOL, what a load of crap and Welcome to DU. I'm a closet Republican. You caught me.

:)

edit to add - If you think anyone who posts anything that isn't completely flattering to Hillary is a troll then you are a fool and not helping Hillary at all.

I actually even said that Carville is just doing his job.

Do you not believe maneuvering goes on behind all campaigns? Stop being so ridiculously sensitive.

[stranger]

13. hey pirate:

hey pirate-you said that-not me.

I am not for Hillary. Franly I dont think any woman can win in 08 due to the hysterical "national security/war on terror climate bush has created.

However, i can also see how destructive your post is to the party unity and to the eventual nominee.

I will support the nominee regardless-and you should do the same if you are a dem and stop stirring crap that has no discernible value other than to stir animosity.

write what you will-most can discern these see pellucid attempts to create divisions.

[Pirate Smile]

20. There is going to be a campaign between the candidates. They are

going to be going at each other. They are trying to maneuver things to their advantage.

If Carville said what he said for these reasons, that is just part of how the race is run. I just thought people who want Gore to run should know this.

People are going to freak when we actually get into the heavy campaigning if they can't handle this kind of minor stuff.

Politics is competitive. Only one will win. This isn't a garden party.

Every post of political intra-party chatter and gossip is not a Republican operation.

I have always said I will support whoever wins the nomination.

People should lay off calling people Republicans if they post about the campaign between the candidates. That is ridiculous.

[AtomicKitten]

8. welcome to DU

and your post was spot on

[Pirate Smile]

11. AK - people getting their hopes raised on Gore running should be

aware that Carville may have another reason for making the statement he made.

I, of course, hope Gore runs but I want a realistic view of it.

[AtomicKitten]

12. I understand where you are coming from,

but the intraparty CTs de jour on DU are such an epic waste of brain cells. It's all speculative and usually propagated on blogs on the internetz by those stirring up trouble for ulterior motives, i.e., on behalf of this candidate or that.

Carville showed his true colors a while back and I pay little or no attention to him. I feel confident we have strong candidates that don't require a message board-led jihad based on speculation on their behalf. I do agree that this kind of intraparty strife is detrimental to the wellbeing of the battle we have before us with the GOP. In other words, I'll save my righteous outrage for something real and worthwhile.

I mean no disrespect to you personally; I'm just a bit flabbergasted at the direction DU is taking.

[Pirate Smile]

15. No kidding. I'm now a Republican.

I've been unsure who to support in the caucus. It depends on who all runs but I will support whoever wins in the general but the heavy handed tactics are really going to alienate a lot of people.

You can still be a Democrat and not necessarily be automatically for Hillary in the Primaries. When people act like that isn't possible :mad:

[AtomicKitten]

18. Hey, I'm holding out for Gore.

Still not convinced he's not running. Otherwise, Obama is looking good. Anyone that didn't vote 'yes' on the IWR for me in the primary, please.

Don't worry about anybody being damaged by the primary machinations. They knew what they were getting into when they threw their hat in the ring. It'll toughen them up to go up against the GOP Wrecking Machine.

Step back a bit and try to view it as a sporting event. Try not to take it so personally. Politics is not for the faint of heart. When you get to the point where you can appreciate a smooth move and can say "good one," then you will be ready for the rough and tumble of the process without danger of it causing irreparable harm to your wellbeing. :)

[Pirate Smile]

42. I'm not worried about the candidates being damaged. They are big

boys and girls.

The thread has been educational. I won't bother going into the details.

We are actually on exactly the same wavelength regarding who we like in the primaries (and why) and what we will do in the general - I think we both already knew that.

[AtomicKitten]

43. I don't think the thread was educational.

None of us learned anything we already didn't know. It was pretty much another opportunity to bash Hillary and those around her by those that love to do it.

My comments are derived from the fact that the OP is blog material, speculative musings on the internetz that is red meat for people that already have a POV that this particular stuff fuels. I often point to George Clooney talking about not liking blogs because they do more harm than good, and this thread is certainly case in point. Many, many people at DU point to blogs as their link for completely unsubstantiated material. I for one would prefer folks just start a thread discussing why they don't like Hillary or whomever the target de jour is rather than using this kind of blog sourcing, hinting that it is factual when it is, in fact, completely speculative.

Although I don't support HRC in the primary, I don't hate her. I don't think she has evil minions out to unscrupulously annihilate her opponents. Oh, there are plenty of reindeer games going on by those jockeying for position in this crowded field, but nothing out of the ordinary in the course of an election. People here get so completely emotionally wrapped up in the process and that is precisely why flame wars occur.

Today another thread set out to subtly hamstring General Clark misquoting comments another person made. It's the DU game, day after day, thread after thread.

I am not criticizing you per se, I am shaking my head at the sourcing. If this is what we have to look forward to in the primary season, I am finding myself less and less interested in less and less interesting discussions here at DU.

[Pirate Smile]

48. The point of the thread IMO was that people shouldn't pin their hopes on a

Gore run based on Carville's comment.

I learned everything is going to be a RW smear, no matter the source or whether the information is even a smear (trying to get funding for yourself and limit it for your opponent seems like basic campaign strategy to me).

Everyone seems to be overreacting to everything - on all sides.

[mtnsnake]

28. Stranger nails it.

Welcome to DU!

[jobycom]

5. Thoughts

First, the Clintons were very popular in Hollywood. Second, if Obama isn't getting the money that people are waiting to give to Gore, then Hillary isn't, either. Third, Hillary, as the first serious female contender for the White House, would clean up in Hollywood irregardless of Obama's popularity. Fourth, Carville is more likely to know something than "politicalinsider." He knows the donors, and knows the system, so he knows whether Gore is feeling them out or not. If Gore plans to run, he would be trying to tie up donors for when he steps in. Carville would be aware if he's doing that now. That's not to say that Carville would tell us the truth about what's happening, just that he would have an informed opinion about whether Gore is running.

[ripple]

9. The other side is certainly working the 'divide and conquer'

tactic, but I'm a bit skeptical that our side is doing the same. If that's Carville's strategy, wouldn't it also be likely to pull at least some votes from Hillary?

Also, I don't know how significant this is, but on NPR's Talk of the Nation, Donna Brazille made it sound like Gore might indeed mix things up by running. Since she ran his 2000 campaign, that definitely caught my interest.

I'm still with Obama for the long haul, but I have a lot of respect for Gore and if he chooses to run, I wish him well.

[oasis]

10. If Gore maintains a high profile, he'll be the crown jewel in Hillary's cabinet.

That's what Carville is working on.

[Imagevision]

22. Carville is reliable Bill Clinton tool...doing what he does best...

[crispini]

23. Oooo. Sniff, sniff.....

Yep, the stinky ring of Carville. I'd buy it. PeeeYEW.

[hijinx87]

26. I think howard dean exploded that mindset

in 2004 with his grassroots, internet based funding model.

[zulchzulu]

27. Carville is a main reason why there isn't a President Kerry

http://phoenixwoman.blogspot.com/2006/11/woodward-james-carville-democrats.html

Trust Carville at your peril. Trust anyone who pays him a dime at your peril.

[mtnsnake]

29. Kerry is the reason why there isn't a President Kerry. nt

[SaveElmer]

32. Bingo...nt

[PresidentObama]

37. Hillary is the reason there won't be another President Clinton.

BINGO!

;-) Two can play at this game, I can be a smart ass too.

[zulchzulu]

36. So Carville gets a free pass? Hmmm... I see...

Imagine Carville giving away the secret plans of the presidential candidate of your choice on Election eve to his wife, who then tells basically The Enemy the plans she just got...plans that would probably have overturned the Ohio results in your candidate's favor...and thus winning the election.

You apparently would find it in your heart that being a traitor is not so bad. Good for you...

If these were the days of cowboys and indians, Carville's skeleton would be hanging from a tree.

[blm]

46. Terry McAuliffe's failure to secure election process in 4yrs he was charged to do it

is the reason. Not to mention the way he oversaw the collapse of the party infrastructure in so many crucial states all over the country through his sheer neglect, costing Dem elections in 2000, 2002 and 2004.

[SaveElmer]

34. Another conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up...

Republicans don't even have to say anything anymore...

Reminds me of the Twilight Episode "The Monsters are Due on Maple Street," where aliens just got neighbors to destroy each other with few well placed electrical anomolies...

Here a few well placed rumors and Democrats are at each others throats!

[Zenlitened]

40. Excellent analogy!

:thumbsup:

[Generator]

35. I love the replies on this thread!

Don't say anything bad about Hillary because she a Democrat. Well, so was Lieberman. Also, I thought that report about Obama was suspiciously close to Ms. Clinton's "chat." She knows how to play dirty. Kind of like a general no doubt-"just get 'er done. I don't need to know the details. " (It can't be traced to her in real provable way)

On the one hand her supporters will say-yes, that's great she can play hard ball against the Repukes(and as we all know, no people on earth are dirtier than them) well if she can play ball against the Republicans she can just as well play some dirty dodge ball against her Democratic opponents.

[blm]

47. Tonya Harding didn't know anything.

Did she?

[Generator]

51. She claimed innocence

but they got her for conspiracy to hinder prosecution. Very Libby-Rove-Cheney like the whole thing! (on a international skate level) No one ever believed her husband thought it all up without her help. We in Portland lived the saga (and still get Tonya updates) for years.

http://www.oregonlive.com/special/tonya/index.ssf?/special/tonya/timeline.frame

[blm]

52. Very McAuliffe - Begala-Carville - Clinton like, in this case.

.

[PresidentObama]

38. Why should we believe anything Carville says?

I mean, it's obvious he's working with HRC. Him, Begala, and McAuliffe.

After Carville basically asked for Dean to be hacked out of the DNC, and replaced by DLC Harold Ford Jr., I lost all respect for James.

Not that I had much for him anyway after he went and spilled the beans about the Kerry campaigns plans on election day in 04'

This is just getting tiresome. I'm sorry if I piss off the Hillary people. But her team is hacking away and hacking away at opponents, they are doing whatever they can to limit the money Obama can raise, and they are hiding their own insecurities about their candidate.

One of my fellow Kerrycrats above said something along the lines of them using Tonya Harding like methods. It's sick, but it's true. And honestly, I don't see how this is going to win over anybody. If we are going to get as low as Bush did in 2000, count me out of this!!

I'll vote for Hillary IF she wins the nomination (I don't think she will and so do MANY people) under one condition: Her team better cut the shit!!

It's politics, it's never clean. But if it's this dirty and filthy, count me out!

[KingofNewOrleans]

44. If that is Carville's strategy then

Gore should pull the old switcheroo and jump in the race.

[IndianaGreen]

45. Carville and Begala are the hatchet men for Team Hillary

Carville is also tainted by his marriage to one of Cheney's operatives.

[Pithy Cherub]

49. Laughter because most people don't get this is

a Hillary nightmare scenario. She HAS to try and head Obama off now as the strategists are rightfully seeking ways to stop all candidates in their tracks. Here is what most people are not getting:

There are anonymous leaks on fundraising, African American support, best staffing and endorsements now because that is what is REQUIRED in presidential politics.

Obama has upended Hillary's calculus badly. Edwards was never a threat to Hillary because his fundraising had been trial lawyers in 2004 and Hillary could claim some of that money in the race.

Hollywood money is the mother's milk of presidential campaigns in the beginning - hence Obama's two trips here on high profile events. The Saddleback Church event and his book tour and privately he met with top California money people. Hillary has not been here - but Bill Clinton relied heavily on California money.

Hillary' team leaks that Elizabeth Taylor rounded up $100,000.

Meanwhile, Obama sets his announcement date at February 10. In the BIG money sweepstakes, Obama drives a nail into the heart Hillary big money aspirations. That evening the triumvirate of Geffen, Katzenberg, and Spielberg hold a gala for Obama at $2200 a plate that will be a high profile FREE media event in California that will raise millions from some of the most powerful people in Hollywood. Note to the non-Hollywood crowd: Dreamworks was purchased by Paramount Studios, bringing Brad Grey into it as Spielberg was Hollywood's biggest get. NBC Universal is still gnashing their teeth they lost out on Dreamworks. Paramount will be the source of big money as they produced some little known movies like An Inconvenient Truth and Dreamgirls.

On Hardball yesterday, Tweety interviews big donor who won't commit at this point because Hollywood wants to send a message to Clinton that her stance on the war pissed them off. ( Notice carville stayed away from that).I live out here trust me - its true. Earlier in the week, it was confirmed on Hardball that Hillary was trying to "choke the baby in its cradle" by Mike Barnicle and others - meaning stop Obama's money before he gets a head of steam.

Obama picked up Daley support in December in Hillary's hometown. The daleys are in one of the biggest financial markets in the US. Also there is Oprah, who has not weghed in with her own fundraising prowess on Obama's behalf. Meanwhile, Oscar winners that have lined up behind Obama are Matt damon, Halle Berry - who offered to pick up trash if it would get Obama elected, and George Clooney who really shares some common themes about Africa. And the rest of Black Hollywood has yet to weigh in: (known BIG donors) Russell Simmons, Bill Cosby, Denzel Washington, Spike Lee, Will & Jada Smith... Those will get covered in free media too should they go to Obama.

Let me describe Hollywood for you - its a small town that THRIVES on gossip. Word is that Gore can hobnob at all of the pre-Oscar events that don't get covered. there are house party screenings, lot parties, and private events where Gore can chat up whomever he wants all the way up to February 27th. Then the evening of the party, there are high profile party where even more money shows up for the after parties.

Wes Clark steps onto the stage with a national conference on terrorism while he has the friendship of George Soros and warren Buffet. Warren Buffet knows Bill gates and on it goes. Clark also would earn FREE California media at his conference while engaging in California while he is lecturing at UCLA which is in the heart of some of the most expensive real estate on the planet.

So sadly, it is not a rightwing smear - the money race is real because the media believes it is a sign of strength. It is relatively new that grassroots and netroots matter in that as 2004 was the first cycle that changed conventional wisdom. The old frame of how money is important is traditional thinking super imposed over a new reality in 2008. That's why edwards had to go to unions early because he is not yet real competitive in the California money race. One of the biggest California fundraisers on the planet is named Nancy Pelosi - where is the money that she gets going to - that is also important to watch.

Get your popcorn because what is going on behind the scenes is serious combat!

[blm]

50. Hillary's team have taken their tips from W's 2000 campaign and Tonya Harding's plans

to stop her biggest rivals during the TRIALS competition.

Making it an easier task to dominate the series of Dem debates.

[IndianaGreen]

55. A very informative post, Pithy Cherub

Obama's meeting in New York with George Soros was probably one of the events that made Team Hillary hit the alarm button and forced them to announce her Presidential intentions much earlier than they had anticipated.

Who will Al Gore endorse for President? Or better yet, why hasn't Gore endorsed the wife of his former running mate?

[RestoreGore]

53. Please, Mr. Gore

Don't allow these people to draw you back to the political poison. We have much work to do out here that we need you to lead us on. I truly wish he would come out and tell them all to shut the hell up. But then, he is too decent a man to do that, so I guess we will continue to see this rhetoric instead of serious discussions about the crisis he is devoting his life to now because it MUST be done, and by all of us.

[dsc]

57. I find it hard to believe that Obama would have that lock with or without Gore

Kucinich did well last time with Hollywood and I don't see why he wouldn't this time. Edwards, with his anti Iraq position would seem to be able to do well too.

[NashVegas]

58. Doubtful

When the time rolls around, Obama will step back in favor of Hilary. Everyone knows it.

[Bullet1987]

60. Pithy Cherub...

....Dreamgirls isn't a little known movie, other than that, I agree with you. California has been labeled the "gold mine" of donors. It's really a very pro-liberal state when it comes to that issue...it's very unlikely you'd have a Conservative raising the kinds of money Libs do there.

First, the Clintons were very popular in Hollywood. Second, if Obama isn't getting the money that people are waiting to give to Gore, then Hillary isn't, either. Third, Hillary, as the first serious female contender for the White House, would clean up in Hollywood irregardless of Obama's popularity. Fourth, Carville is more likely to know something than "politicalinsider." He knows the donors, and knows the system, so he knows whether Gore is feeling them out or not. If Gore plans to run, he would be trying to tie up donors for when he steps in. Carville would be aware if he's doing that now. That's not to say that Carville would tell us the truth about what's happening, just that he would have an informed opinion about whether Gore is running.

Or fifth, Carville could be full of sh*t.