OK...Who here is brave enough to admit they really just can't stand Hillary?

[Flabbergasted]

even if they like Bill?


I'll admit my shameful weakness....

:cry:


:yourock:

[L84TEA]

1. I will support my Party no matter who they pick out of the current runners. NT

[Flabbergasted]

31. I hereby promise to support Adam Smith and capitalism even if I kill everyone....nt

[Psephos]

Me. She seems to have no problem saying anything needed to get the job.

I can deal with the idea that she's not a naturally warm person, but I can't deal with the idea that she tries to fake it. Someone wants it that bad is a sign that they're in it for the wrong reasons. Don't know about Obama yet, but talent is not a problem in the 2008 field. :-)

Peace

[paulk]

7. she's not a naturally warm person

kind of like Gore was a cardboard cut out with no sense of humor.

and Kerry was an eletist snob.

have you ever met her, btw?

have you ever stopped to question whether your perceptions of her may have been formed by a hostile media?

[Flabbergasted]

13. goverments are run by policy not personality...nt

[mzteris]

22. excellent observation!

:hi:

[Psephos]

40. I can sum up your post in fewer words: you like Hillary and I don't.

If you believe I have to meet each candidate personally before I size them up and pass judgment, then I don't think further discussion will prove fruitful.

[paulk]

48. I've never said I "liked" Hillary

and you did not address my post.

What I'm saying is that you have made a judgment of her personality that is based on what the RW media wants you to believe.

Think about it. In the last election, the MSM turned an elitist, draft dodging, cokehead alcoholic who'd never accomplished anything in his life without his Dad's pals holding his britches up for him into a war hero courageously leading the nation, and turned a genuine war hero of great civic accomplishment into a flip flopping snob who cheated to get his medals.

The media is not on our side, and they will do everything in their power to help the Republicans win. Please don't assist them by buying into the shit they're selling about HRC's personality. Or any other Democratic candidate's personality.

[Psephos]

60. You sound like a Scientologist trying to keep one of the supplicants from straying

"What I'm saying is that you have made a judgment of her personality that is based on what the RW media wants you to believe."

Apparently it never occurred to you that I might be able to think for myself, although you have no trouble granting that privilege to yourself.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Psephos]

74. If you made a fair point, it was lost in your unprovoked insult

I noticed that you've posted over a dozen times in the past three days on threads that had something to do with HRC. Every one of them was in response to someone who doesn't like her. Your M.O. is to say that those who find fault with her have obviously been duped by the MSM. I also saw that I am not the only person who took your condescending assumptions to be an insult.

Your multi-day pursuit across threads of those who don't share your opinion about HRC reminds me of Eric Hoffer's description of the True Believer's techniques for dealing with apostates. The True Believer can't imagine that other reasonable people might look at the same information and draw different conclusions. It goes right to the heart of what makes a True Believer's "truth" seem valid: it is so "true" on its face that only the feeble-minded or the swindled could possibly believe differently.

I'm generally interested in civil discussion, but not with people who post unprovoked insults to me when I state an opinion different from theirs, and then dissemble about their own motives. So I think the ignore will be a benefit to us both.

Which, umm, means we have finally reached common ground. Cool. :-)

[AdHocSolver]

75. My perception of Hillary is that she is a lightning rod for strong opinions about her.

Therefore, if she is so divisive even among Democrats, she would not play well to independents and moderate Republicans whose votes would be needed in 2008 by any nominee to win the presidency. Any Democratic candidate will have to win by a significant margin to overcome the dirty tricks the Republicans will certainly use like they did in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. No Democrat will be able to win in a close race and that means Hillary Clinton would not win in 2008.

The Democratic party leadership shut down the Democratic primary campaign early in 2004 on the assumption that "anybody can beat Bush" and, of all the candidates, "Kerry is the most electable," and we will do best if "everyone unites around our appointed candidate." The short primary campaign cost the Democratic party a lot of free publicity that a longer primary campaign would have supplied, and the closeness of the voting allowed the Republicans to steal another election. (I won't even get into the fact that Kerry never contested the Ohio vote irregularities.)

By studying history, we can definitively deduce that Hillary couldn't win a presidential race, and therefore we should look for a better candidate, that is, someone who has a chance to WIN.

[Psephos]

39. self delete - wrong subthread

[hijinx87]

2. I am a hillary supporter

and I am not ashamed to admit it. if the primaries were held
tomorrow, I would vote for her. the entire primary season is
yet before us, however. I am also impressed by edwards' newest
incarnation.

but hillary has more cajones than anyone else in the field.

[Flabbergasted]

5. If you consider financing from the elite cajones I guess you're right...

[hijinx87]

6. financing is financing

it is a necessary part of the equation.

if you want to fault her, you have to fault the rest
of the candidates.

[Flabbergasted]

12. I don't think Murdoch is financing anyone else from the dems.....

She has vastly more financing than Obama or Edwards combined....

[hijinx87]

36. great. fantastic

she has more than enough integrity to deal with it.

[Flabbergasted]

38. Integration with Murdoch the media mogul who helped put bitch in the whitehouse

[hijinx87]

43. horseshit

money is money.

[Mojambo]

3. I think she's a delightful woman

I just don't think she'd make a very good president.

I'll be brave enough to say that I didn't think much of Bill Clinton's performance as president either. His heart was in the right place (as is Hillary's) but their policies are bad, IMO.

[bigluckyfeet]

47. Hillary Needs to

Stay home and bake Bill some cookies.

[The Wielding Truth]

4. She bought into BushCo's lies on Iraq. That's when she lost me.

She's gonna have to fight against corp.greed to win me back.

[L84TEA]

9. oh... her and a boat load of others...

I am not going to damn her for that... I don't think we should. On one hand, no one should believe a greedy repug... but on another hand... you can't stack the blame on her.

By the way, I am an Edwards supporter.. but again, I will support who ever my party decides is the front runner.

[Flabbergasted]

14. She openly supports the war...and she never apologized...

[The Wielding Truth]

23. Candidates have to win my vote. I blame all those who couldn't see

through the slimy corporate Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Tenet-Bush Snowjob.

It's not just Iraq where she has let * have his way. I haven't heard her speak up against signing statements or illegal wiretaps, or even the torture.

Maybe I missed it?

[mtnsnake]

8. Not me, Rush. ya fat f*ck.

:evilgrin:

[Missy M]

10. I am a Hillary supporter....

and she is not only a fine candidate but will make a fine president.

[JDPriestly]

73. Where DOES she stand on wiretaps, mail reading, signing statements,

habeas corpus, bankruptcy "reform," "free" trade, faith-based give-aways, separation of church and state just for starts?

[hijinx87]

11. this thread has a depressingly low number of responses.

especially since she is well up on the rest of the field.

[Flabbergasted]

17. Due to merely media exposure. Thats it.....There's nothing else....

[hijinx87]

37. I disagree

she has been a candidate forever.

we DUers just don't seem to like her, despite the fact
that she can win.

[SanFranciscoValues]

15. And what exactly is so bad about her?

She is an accomplished woman who has worked tirelessly for this country. She may not be very charismatic, and I may not always agree with her, but there is no doubt in my mind that she would make an effective and competent leader, something that this country sorely needs right now. And I actually support Obama or Gore (even though Gore prbly isn't running) over Hillary, but I am not about to bash her because she doesn't come off as very eloquent or because she doesn't always vote the way I think she should. Overall I think that she is a great leader : )

[Flabbergasted]

18. How many years do you want the Bush and Clinton family running the country?

It's not good for our democracy!

[blm]

24. What Dem do you think Bush2 wants to take office if a Dem is bound to win?

Clue: What Dem covered up for Bush1 when he took office and continued the coverup throughout as more crimes of office emerged?

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0511-29.htm

See also - BET documentary American Gangster re CIA drugrunning story that broke in 1996.

[LoZoccolo]

16. Here are some!

[we can do it]

19. Not Me -I Like Bill, I Like Hill

[MrSlayer]

20. Hi. My name is MrSlayer and I can't stand Hillary Clinton.

I don't like her blowing in the wind, follow the polls, stand for absolutely nothing mentality. I don't like her corporatism or her refusal to denounce the war. I hate the completely ludicrous grandstanding on meaningless issues like video games and flag burning while voting for terrible things like the bankruptcy bill. No, I don't like her at all and I'll do everything possible to make sure she doesn't get the nomination.

[Flabbergasted]

21. Thank You! And Precisely and Emphatically what Hills about n/t

[AJH032]

66. you make no sense

First, if she stands for absolutely nothing, how could she be corporate? Isn't that standing for something?

Secondly, why do you lie and say she voted for the bankruptcy bill when she did not?

[MrSlayer]

67. Ah but she didn't vote against it either did she?

Not voting against it is the same as voting for it as I see it. She also spoke out in support of it. That's typical of her. Speak in favor of a truly shitty bill but try to protect yourself by not voting at all which helps it pass. She votes as a corporatist so she stands for something that is terrible for the people while never actually acknowleging that her loyalties lie there.

[AJH032]

68. really?

not voting against it is the same as voting for it?

So tell me, if Hillary is the nominee, would you vote for her? After all, not voting against the Republican nominee is the same as voting for the Republican nominee, is it not?

[MrSlayer]

69. Hmm vote for a Republican or a Republican lite.

Voting for her is basically the same as voting for a Republican so it really doesn't matter. If she wins the nomination we all lose.

[unlawflcombatnt]

71. My sentiments exactly

I couldn't have put it better.

[bdrube]

25. Won't Vote For Her -- No Matter What

I'm sorry, I simply will not vote for Hillary.  If she
receives the nomination, I'll go 3rd Party in November.  

Nothing against a woman being President, we just need FRESH
leadership in this country and that means no more Bushes OR
Clintons.

[mtnsnake]

26. The republicans will be much obliged to you.

Maybe you should consider posting at GreenUnderground.com

[Flabbergasted]

29. So people are just way too stupid in general and we should give up educating them....

[paulk]

56. "educating" them?

to do what?

vote 3rd party?

if that's your goal, why are you posting on this site?

[Jane Austin]

27. I just can't stand her being shoved down our throats.

Hey, Media! Let us weigh this ourselves.

thanks.

[cadmium]

55. Good point. Whether I like her or not is secondary to

not wanting her foisted on us as inevitable before even a single primary. Make no mistake about it she is being foisted on us by the media. I'm not ready to let her video feeds into my home either--I played it a couple minutes and I got a creepy feeling like listening to George Bush tell the people of Iraq that he has no quarrel with them -- before the bombing started

[LaBanty]

28. I don't like her, but I don't hate her, either

I like her better than Edwards and less than Obama. I like her better than her husband, which isn't saying a lot. I like her better than Kerry or Gore. Hillary is really tough, and she's experienced. But, what always comes across with her is that she is all about her own survival, and will screw anybody over that stands in her way, and will say and do anything necessary to come out on top. I would say there are some trust issues that will never really be resolved.

I put Hillary on par with an upset stomach, pending throwing up, which is still better than a full blown case of the flu and diarrhea.

[Not Me]

30. I like Hillary...but I don't think she is the best person

I voted for Hillary for Senate when I lived in NY, and I think she has done a good job for her constituents.
I don't like her stand on the war, her waffling on gay rights and her triangulation positioning.

[zulchzulu]

35. Door#1: "Can't stand her" Door#2: Will not vote for her in the primaries

I'm picking Door #2. So far...and that's over a friggin' year away. I haven't even decided where I'm going on vacation this summer yet.

[Generator]

32. The silent majority?

Just let the voters decide, that's all I ask. I have faith in them.

[Flabbergasted]

34. A defeated people will always choose the path in front of them

[Punkingal]

33. I admit it....

And it feels good to finally admit it. I think she has the attitude that the Presidency somehow is her right and privilege, and I don't agree. She became the Senator from New York because that was just a stepping stone to run for the White House, which she has always intended to do. She is an elitist, and she is completely calculating in all her actions.

As for her being cold, I met her in January, 1992, in New Hampshire, and she was not friendly. Now, if my husband was running for President, and someone drove from upstate New York to check him out, as my husband and I did, I would have at least mustered up a little warmth for them, but she didn't do that with us. The Big Dog was very warm and friendly, but not her.

Having said all this, I will vote for her if she gets the nomination, because she would still be better than any Republican.

[Codeblue]

41. I don't like her

I just get a bad feeling about her. I'm one of those people that, generally speaking, can form a very good impression of someone's character rather easily. Granted, its not always right, but most of the time it is.

Now, having said that, I feel either one of two ways about her. One, I feel like she is one of the spineless Dems who is unwilling to take a stand on anything and is responsible for getting us into this mess with her spineless attitude. Who is the real Hillary? Who knows? Her political ambitions completely outwiegh her actual beliefs, unless she actually doesn't have any.

The second way is that she is power hungry. I think we all know how power hungry people end up. There are a multitude of examples we can use. However, while she may be better than Bush, I think they're similarities will be quite surprising should she get the office.

[election_2004]

42. I don't like either of them

Bill Clinton perpetuated "New Democratic" hostility toward LGBT people, irresponsible trade policies, and embracing "indecency" standards.

Hillary Clinton simply ran for an easy U.S. Senate vacancy in a state she'd never lived in before solely for the purpose of running for president.

[Digit]

44. I don't care for her

I think she cares more for her own political ambition than what she can do for the country.

[NaturalHigh]

45. I will gladly admit it...

and I will NOT vote for her.

[Demi_Babe]

46. I like her

[McCamy Taylor]

49. I have never met her. How would I know if I like her? Jeez.

I hope you guys are not using some wierd criteria like how well you think you know and "like" the candidates to select them. If you are, I can see how we got saddled with scumbags like Reagan and W.

[MasonJar]

50. I am brave enough to admit that I really do like Hillary. If Al Gore does

not run, Hill has my vote.

[mnhtnbb]

51. Hillary lost me when she insulted women who choose to

focus time on raising kids and contributing to community. In spite of that, I donated to her first Senate campaign. But I think that's where she should stay.

Where would we be without stay-at-home Mom's volunteer political activities? All Hillary could think of was her mother's Republican style of baking cookies and serving tea.


Add her war-mongering, corporatist sucking up, her failed attempt at health care (sucking up to managed care) and yeah, my hand is raised--I can't stand her.

[TheFarseer]

52. I can't stand her either

I won't support her in the primary or general election - that is the only democratic candidate I will say that about unless Zell Miller or Leiberman is running.

[mitchum]

53. I don't like either of them

[lesab]

54. Not me....

I am sorry, but she is such a politician. I wish I could feel good about her and her views but I don't. I thought that I would be one of the first people in line to vote for a woman but NOT HER. She is totally clueless about the war and about normal regular people and their everyday lives and concerns. I will only vote for her if I have to hold my nose. Please don't make me do it......I want to vote for Gore or Obama or some other good guy. I don't want to vote for someone who doesn't stand up and fight for what is right. Backbone people ...backbone.

[kimsterdemster]

57. Blech...

She makes my skin crawl, of all the days she can go YAK it up, she had to pick the day of the anti-war march, taking away from the T.V coverage, BBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCCCCCC!!!:puke:

Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton..........


Can we please get the person who we voted for in 2000 in the White House where he should be!!!!!!!

Gore/Clark, Gore/Boxer, Gore/Obama, Gore/Feingold, Gore/Kucinich, Gore/HRC, if she just has to be on the ticket, but she has to say I was wrong to vote for the war!

I don't get why people like her :shrug:

[fujiyama]

58. Me

I find her to be a pandering politician, coming off insincere with no real beliefs or principals. I don't find her charismatic. I find her speaking style grating.

I actually think she's the opposite of Bill in many ways.

I'll still hold my nose and vote for her if she gets the nomination, but no one should expect me or millions of others to be enthusiastic about it.

[Luckyduck]

59. Hillary is NOT A LEADER

She is a FOLLOWER of Bush. Why would the Democratic Party want to put her up as our candidate?

[natrat]

61. hillary is a conservative plant of some sort- i detest her as a canidate

[WCGreen]

63. After she squandered the one opportunity in my life time to put forth

a national health care system, yea, I've had enough of her careful calculating bullshit...

[meldroc]

64. There are far better candidates than Hilary.

Right now, it seems that the MSM are pushing for her pretty hard - they're swiftboating Obama and Edwards, while making it look like she's doing no wrong.

Too much of a DINO for me. Not as bad as Liebermann, but I'd rather have Edwards, Obama or Kucinich.

[AJH032]

65. I wouldn't describe any Democrat that way

admittedly, I do not very much like Edwards, but I wouldn't say I can't stand him. I know the point of your thread was for people who "can't stand" Hillary, but I thought I'd chime in.

[unlawflcombatnt]

70. I admit it too

I don't like her. She's a free-trading one-world globalist who is still supporting the war in Iraq. And she's a politician who's never found a fence to narrow for her to stand on.

[Zorra]

72. I think she's awesome. n/t

[windbreeze]

76. I am and I don't care for him either..

personal opinion only, of course...
wb