Oh Goodie! My teacher is going to be on latter half of Larry King tonight.

[Auntie Bush]

She a psychic and will battle it out with Sylvia Brown. She's often said she was a fake. It was proved to be true when she said the boy who was kidnapped 4 years ago was dead. Randie somebody(?) has devoted his life to proving Psychics are fakes. My teacher Rosemary Altea is going to try and show there are real Psychics. I've seen her in action too many times to doubt her. She's nailed many for me and I just wondered...How the hell did she know that? Watch! It ought to be interesting! I hope not just for a laugh.

[orleans]

1. your teacher? teacher for what? or was this a grade school teacher? n/t

[Auntie Bush]

2. I've been studying with her for 5 1/2 years. ..

We are learning to be healers and learning to take control of our lives.

[illinoisprogressive]

3. this will be fun

[Auntie Bush]

4. I hope she doesn't get creamed...she's an honest person.

She's given me many readings.

She has a new book coming out in April...so I hope she is not just pushing her book.

Watch it! She's good! Coming on latter half of the hour.

[TlalocW]

5. Not a teacher of common sense

There are no such things as psychics. If she's truly psychic, she can take James Randi's test and win a million dollars if she passes it.

It doesn't matter if you've seen her in action a lot of times, or she's nailed you so many times - if you're not familiar with the various tricks and theories behind presenting yourself as a psychic, you won't catch on. This isn't meant to be insulting - Uri Geller fooled scientists with simple (and poorly done) magic tricks, but the scientists wanted to believe so they did.

This is a subject near and dear to my heart, and I'm very blunt about it. Describe to me just what your teacher does to you to nail you - is it a reading like Browne does? Something else?

TlalocW

[cosmik debris]

6. James Randi has offered a Million Dollars for any one who

can prove that psychics are real. Sylvia Brown has always been too busy to accept the challenge. I'm sure your teacher will be too busy too.

[Suich]

7. Sylvia Brown is on the Montel Williams Show on a regular basis.

I wish sometime they would show, say, 20 predictions she made, then tell us how many were true. I'm not holding my breath, though!

I'll be watching your teacher!

:hi:

[PresidentObama]

8. I've seen how much money my mom has dished out....

...at Barnes and Noble for that Sylvia Brown crap. She gets ALL her books.

It kinda annoys me. Because honestly, I've never believed in psychics. They just seem so phony, and especially her.

Say, didn't that Hornbeck kids parents have a psychic who told them there kid was dead?

:crazy: Uh-oh....

[Auntie Bush]

9. Yes, Sylvia was the psychic that told them that Sean H. was dead.,,Big mistake!

[PresidentObama]

11. Sylvia is a scam.

How bad would you feel if you told a mother their son was dead, and you did it for profit and publicity? What a bunch of lies.

Nuts!!

[Auntie Bush]

10. Tell your Mother to read Rosemary's books which are much better. n/t

[PresidentObama]

12. Anything to get her off the Sylvia addiction.

She watches her on Montel too.

It's like watching professional wrestling. It's fake, but you can't tell the fans that. They'll claim you're the crazy one!

[Auntie Bush]

14. Most people believe it's fake. I did too...but after 3 years of working with

her...I became a believer! When I started I was an Athiest...now I'm a believer.

[TlalocW]

16. I'm kind of surprise Sylvia did that

From a purely cynicaly point of view...

The death of a loved one isn't going to go over well with the parents or the viewing public. Plus if you say the child is still alive, but he or she isn't, chances are it will take years to find the body (if they even do). If the body is found, it will probably be difficult to tell when the child was killed, and the psychic has an "out." "Well, he was alive when I made the reading."

Sloppy, Sylvia. Sloppy.

TlalocW

[TlalocW]

13. More than likely, here's how she "knew that"

If it's like most psychic readings, it started out with what's called "cold reading," where she throws out various vague suggestions - you've had to recover from a disappointment recently, you've suffered a loss recently, someone dear to you is going through a hard time. These are things that could apply to anyone, and note that they're all negative things because no one goes to a psychic because life is all wine and roses - they're worried about loved ones, money, romance, upset over a death, etc.

Now a person could unwittingly gave her feedback - for instance, stiffen when the last suggestion is given (friend having a hard time) or even verbally, "Yes, that's true." She would then continue down that path, throwing out more suggestions. "I'm seeing a female." 50-50 shot. If the friend the person is thinking of is female - score 1 for her. If not, she could offer a suggestion like, "A female is connected to the problem though." Probably a good chance of that. If the answer is yes, she can back-validate it... "That's what I thought because I'm seeing an image of a male, and he's looking angrily/worrisome/pensively at a woman." If a female just isn't connected in any way, she can say, "It might be some other friend. Think hard," and you might or might not come up with someone else having a problem.

If that particular line eventually goes nowhere, she can start down a different line. Maybe throw out some names in hopes that they're important to that person, etc.

Now, if that person is intelligent and creative, he or she will be able to make all kinds of connections. If the psychic is off - say she says, "You've changed careers lately," and the person hasn't but is thinking about it, he or she will make an excuse for the psychic. "Maybe his timing is just off." That person wants the psychic to succeed.

The fact of the matter is for every "hit," there are going to be dozens of misses, where the psychic suggested something, and you couldn't connect it to anything. You're going to forget about all of those - unless you record the session and listen to it carefully - because you're going to be too excited about all the supposed hits.

In the end, the psychic will probably try to sum things up and make you feel better (unlike Browne who told the parents the kid was dead).

Now stuff like that can be very attractive - here apparently is someone with mystical powers that can help me get control of my life, but everyone is trying to get control of their lives in some aspect - mentally, physically, emotionally, financially. We're all in the same boat so to speak, and there are some people who recognize this and decide to take advantage of it in a not good way - psychics, faith-healers, etc. But honestly, you don't need their bull. You are more than likely an intelligent and creative person, and these people are - whether they know they're fakes or have fooled themselves into thinking that they have real powers - are going to hold you back.

Record a session sometime - whether yours or someone else's - and go through it after it's over. Make a column for hits, misses, and since she's given you readings and is a friend, maybe another one for, "Already knew that." You'll be surprised at the results.

TlalocW

[LaBanty]

15. Wow! Very Good.

You always hear about how they are debunked, but I never understood they generally work by process of elimination. It makes sense, when you look at it this way.

I also wasn't aware someone could score a million bucks taking a test to prove their psychic abilities, but no one actually has. Amazing.

[TlalocW]

18. Randi is the most famous one offering that

There are a few others. Go on YouTube.com and look for James Randi - you're going to see demonstrations of "psychic surgery," like they do in the Phillipines; you're going to see him catching a televangelist using a radio receiver in his ear to supposedly get information from God (God sounded a lot like his wife) about the people attending his healing sermon, etc.

It's not just a simple test and not just for psychics but dowsers, telepathists, etc. The problem with most experiments done by scientists that believe in psychic powers is that there are little controls on the experiment. THe psychic is allowed to do his own thing, and they look for anything that happens and give credit to the psychic, after it happens. For instance, a psychic would probably never tell a tester that he can burn out light bulbs with his mind (unless he could somehow gimmick the bulbs), but if during a test, a lightbulb in the lab burns out, he'll take credit for it (his mind generates so much power, it overloaded the bulb). All Randi asks is for an uncontrolled demonstration of the powers - say a dowser prove that his stick will dip over a piece of gold (some dowsers dowse for gold) when placed under a paper cup. THen they come to a mutually agreed set of circumstances that will prove the dowser's power (the piece of gold is placed under 1 of 10 cups when the dowser isn't looking), and the dowser has to find the gold a statistically significant amount of times, and he'll win the million dollars. That's it.

Sometime when you have some time and money to kill, go to a psychic fair and do what I've done. Pick out a palm reader, fork over the 20+ dollars it will cost to have him read your palm and then put on your best poker face and just respond with a flat, "Okay," to whatever he says. There's a pretty good chance you're going to fluster him because they rely on a constant stream of feedback (palm reading is just cold reading with "rules" about what the lines on your hand supposedly mean). I was lucky in that he told me he couldn't "read" me so he gave me my money back... which I then spent going to a special presentation of a woman who could talk to an angel she called Tidbit and "proved" it by blindfolding herself and answering questions (with input from Tidbit) we had written on pieces of paper that she had on a lectern in front of her. Of course, she was just looking down the side of her nose out of the blindfold, but she had people crying over the answers she gave them.

TlalocW

[Auntie Bush]

19. That's a real scam Randi has going. It's a long story and

has been discussed/hashed out over and over on Larry King for years.

I don't remember the details...just that the rules are so ludicrist...no one could possibly prove anything one way or the other. Besides, when someone tried to take him up on it...he said he didn't have the money because no one could prove they were psychic...hence he didn't need to produce the money. It's a scam to get publicity.

[TlalocW]

21. Lies

The money is held in an account. Before it went up to a million (given to him by a donor), it was $10,000 of his own money, and he carried a check for that amount everywhere he went.

The tests are not ludicrous. They're as simple as the test I described in another post that mentioned the dowser. The psychic people attack Randi because he actually wants a clear statement of what a performer can do, and he and assistants design what they think the simplest test is for the performer's claim. In the case of the dowser, they asked him to prove to them that he could sense gold underneath a paper cup. The dowser knew where the gold was to begin with and could produce the desired results. They then got his agreement that the test they proposed (10 cups, one piece of gold) was fair. They even had him dowse the area of the floor where the cups would be to verify to himself that there was no gold in the ground. He tried 10 times. Each time the gold being randomly put underneath another cup. He failed.

And that is even a sloppy protocol because Randi was in the room when the dowser would try. It wasn't double-blinded, which is the most proper way to do these experiments - in other words, neither the performer or the person running the experiment knows where the piece of gold was. Randi could very well have reacted some way when the performer passed over the correct cup. What should have been done was someone should have selected the cup to put the gold under, done so, then left the room and let another observer come in with the dowser. Neither of them would know where the gold was so there would be no inadvertent signalling.

Anyway, the dowser, like every other performer who fails, started whining and making excuses that the test was too hard or unfair even though he had "proved" he could do it. My favorite excuse is that Randi himself is such a powerful psychic that he can muck up any test with his mind.

TlalocW

[Auntie Bush]

17. What you say is very true. Except I knew they worked just as you stated

so I have always been very careful not to give any information. She still tells me things she had no way of knowing as I'm very close mouthed. It isn't just readings for instance I would think of a question to ask her in the next class and low and behold...the while next lesson was an answer to my question. This has happened many, many times. She knows too damn much...not to be really psychic.

[TlalocW]

20. I hate to be a killjoy but...

That's what you remember not necessarily what happened. The human mind is always trying to make connections between things, but it's not perfect. The fact that you're studying something, come up with a question about it, and the next lesson covers what you were wondering about is not psychic. It's happened to me plenty of times...

We learn the past tense verb form in Spanish class. I can now say, "I ran," "I ate," "I slept," in Spanish. Cool! I'm happy with my progress and leave class. But wait! How do I say, "He ran?" How do I say, "We ran?" How do I say, "They ran?"

Well, lo and behold, I learned the answers the next day. Was my teacher psychic, or did the answers to my questions just happen to be the next logical thing to study about? Being the jerk skeptic that I am, I don't believe my teacher is psychic.

Now, you believe in it. Is there any chance that you might have even told your teacher something like, "Wow, I was wondering about that!" and she smiled knowingly or said, "Yes... I know."

TlalocW

[Auntie Bush]

23. Not so, The questions had nothing to do with any previous lesson

or any future lesson. They were just random thoughts/questions and she'd explain it in the next lesson.

Say you were taking a science course and studying about the universe. While you were at home you saw a closeup photo of a star...Then you came to class and the teacher gave a lesson about that particular star...you'd be pretty impressed...especially if she did that repeatedly.

[TlalocW]

24. No, I wouldn't

Life is made of many wonderful coincidences. Please... I gave an idealized account of an experience I had when I studied Spanish. Give an example of your experience - not a hypothetical one.

TlalocW

[Auntie Bush]

25. Here's one...

Our lesson for the week of 9-ll was to list and think about all the things we'd do and say to our loved ones if we knew we were going to die the next day. Well 9-11 was on a Tuesday, If my memory serves me correctly and our class met on Wednesday and we came to class with all those answers everyone was now discussing. It was such an appropriate lesson. We asked her if she knew we were going to be attacked. She was honest enough to say no.

However, she did say something told her not to deposit the money she
had just earned over the weekend at a big event she just held. She never kept money at home because .........and felt very uncomfortable doing so. Well low and behold...the bank she used was downed in the attack and she'd have had no money if she had deposited it. Both those examples are pretty good coincidences. However, coincidences don't really PROVE anything to me...they just open the door to acceptance and believing.

My beloved son was killed....... and she was a wonderful help...since I wasn't a believer and she made me into one though it took several years. I'm really a skeptic. I don't want to discuss the specific incidences as they are personal and difficult to discuss. It's late but should I think of something worthwhile that can be told briefly...I'll email you.

Deal?

[TlalocW]

26. Here's the thing...

All these examples you're giving me of her powers are making the facts fit AFTER the event. She tells you she just happened to feel a certain way after an event. That's not proof of anything. If she could stand up and say, "Next week/month/year... this, this, and this will happen," and those things came true, then I would be impressed. Anyone could say that they felt that week was going to be bad after it's already happened. It's pretty easy to predict the past.

It's like a person who doesn't like to fly getting on an airplane. He doesn't like it, and he's certain that something is going to happen. So halfway through the flight, maybe there's some turbulence or a downdraft, and the plane ride gets a little bumpy. That person may think he's had a psychic experience, but what he's forgotten is that he gets queasy everytime he has to take a plane somewhere. If nothing happens, he forgets about it and is just glad the trip is over. This particular time, he feels verified and wrongly gives the credit to his being psychic by making the facts fit after the event.

Has your teacher ever felt bad about the bank before? Probably, yes. We all get upset with the places we do business at. Maybe something happened there the week before - a teller made a mistake, which if it hadn't been caught would have cost your teacher money. She could have been dreading going to the bank and having to deal with that same teller. Or, it just might be possible she's lying about that feeling.

I'm sorry about your son, and if she did help you that's great, but you have to understand - I'm a magician on the side; I've studied the abuse of "magical thinking," for most of my life as kind of a dedicated hobby; I've convinced people that I'm psychic, and I've busted others for passing off simple tricks as real supernatural powers. I'm open to the possibility that these powers exist, but it's not very likely, and everything you've told me doesn't make me think she's doing anything supernatural or even anything original.

This episode of Penn and Teller's show, "Bullshit," gives great examples of the "cold reading," I described in another post. This is one of the reasons I'm so vocal about stuff like this.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1483600049592664356&q=penn+teller&hl=en

TlalocW

[Auntie Bush]

29. Sorry, I didn't explain that very well. She didn't give the lesson

after the fact.

"All these examples you're giving me of her powers are making the facts fit AFTER the event."

I tried to say...we got that lesson the Wed. before the attack and brought our answers to class on the following Wed. which was the day after the attack. It was eerie an seemed like she had a preminition...however she admitted it was just a coincidence. She didn't have to admit that and could have really capitalized of the fact. I believe that shows sincerity and truthfulness.

As far as the bank goes...she had no problems with them but did have problems keeping the cash at home. That "little voice" kept telling her not to deposit the money. She actually had a little argument with the "voice" in her head. I forgot to tell you that the voice said she shouldn't deposit it because she would have NO money if she did. She laughed at the thought because she has PLENTY of money, but the voice won out and she kept the money at home and it came in handy till the bank got function again.

I wish you were in our class. I used to challenge her on everything when I started, but now that I'm a believer as I've seen and heard so much with my own eyes and ears...I don't have so many new questions. We need some good skeptics like you to keep the answers flowing. It's hard to believe all that she says so it's nice for reinforcement.

[TlalocW]

30. No, it's still not convincing

You claim she admitted the lesson was a coincidence - good for her, but there's still that whole implication of her somehow having a glimpse that something was going to happen to her bank that she is claiming, but that's what she's fitting in after the event. From what I gather, that story wasn't told until after the attacks. She didn't talk about the problems and the voice and the warnings to the class BEFORE the attacks. Anyone can make some sort of knowing statement of an event AFTER an event has already occurred. You would not want me in your class - I've out-performed "psychics" before via cold reading, prediction of cards, and writing down BEFOREHAND what people were going to order in a restaurant.

I put a link to Penn and Teller's, "Bullshit," episode about talking to the dead in another post. I watched it after posting it while I puttered around on the computer because I hadn't seen it for a while. As it turns out, Rosemary Altea is featured on the tape, and I hate to say this, but after watching it - there is no doubt in my mind that she is exploiting people's grief to make a buck, just like Sylvia Browne. What she did was nothing more than cold reading, and not very good cold reading - no psychic ability whatsoever.

I really suggest you watch it.

TlalocW

[orleans]

22. ah psychics....and "psychics" (my boring story)

my grandmother told me that she was psychic--before she got married and had kids (she was a "reader"). when i was a teenager she told me a couple instances where she was able to locate a woman's missing daughter (the daughter was probably around twenty) and my grandmother told the girl's mom she could see her daughter on a boat, like a ship, looking out over the railing and she was fine and happy, and the mom would hear from her daughter soon.

the woman returned to my grandmother and told her that the daughter had run off and gotten married and what my grandmother "saw" was the girl on her honeymoon--she had been on a big ship.

another time a man had told her he was trying to get a patent on a machine but it was missing something (--to make it work...something like that) and she drew him a picture of what he needed. he told her later that the pic she had drawn was just what was needed and he was able to patent it.

(when i started doing research on our family genealogy i discovered that man was her own father--my great grandfather--and he had invented a couple bread making machines--i found them at the government patent office!)

my grandmother also told me that as she got older, and had children, her "psychic" abilities began to fade--her life had refocused apparently.

my mother had a talent but it might have been more of a super perception about people rather than psychic ability.

and when i was a young teenager i used to have dreams about my friends and they would come true. (that was scary and weird--but when i got into my early twenties i stopped having those types of dreams)

so--because of my grandmother's stories, my mother's ability to read people & situations & the dreams i used to have i grew up believing some people were psychic. but i also grew up knowing that a lot of people are not.

when i was a teenager i went to a couple "psychics"--for fun and to see what these people were like. and everything i was told was completely wrong.

[Auntie Bush]

28. That proves what Rosemary was trying to tell the audience is true.

That some people have a little ability, very few have true ability and most have NONE and are a total fake and to be VERY careful who you trust. She always told us that Sylvia was a fake...in so many words.

I never paid a penny for her readings...she would just make a prophetic statement now and then to different class members. She has a policy not to give us readings or everyone would want to take classes and then quit after they got a reading. I find her very truthful and by now a "friend" and doubt if she would ever mislead or deliberately lie to us.

I'm very aware of "cold" reading techniques and watch for them very carefully.

[orleans]

31. your teacher sounded very interesting. love that accent! (check your p.m.)

i remember asking my grandmother how she "saw" things and she told me it was as if she was looking at a moving picture running across her forehead. and i know that while she might have sat down and tried to concentrate or contact the spirit world, that's not how it would always happen. sometimes it would just come to her in the midst of her doing something such as walking into her bedroom.

with my mom: she would just get a "feeling" about people (the last time she saw her brother she thought "i'm never going to see you again" and she didn't--he died shortly thereafter. the same with a man she saw/met at a relative's house and i guess he died within a day or two)

and me--mostly dreams when i was younger.

my grandmother's side of the family was really into the psychic realm. they would get together and have seances and do table liftings (where everyone puts two fingers from each hand under a table and you see if the spirits can raise it. i was told a huge dining room table started to float up a staircase with only one relative holding four fingers under the table!)

[blitzen]

27. I'm watching it now...Larry King is senile....

Thinks the guy arrested has long hair and matches Sylvia Brown's description of the suspect as having "dreadlocks."

Your teacher seems cool and decent....although, I confess, I totally agree with Randi on the issue.