Why is Impeachment off of the table?

[harveyc]

Can the pot call the kettle black?

How many in Congress said Saddam had WMD's and was seeking nuclear weapons even before Shrub ran for President?

How many in Congress voted for the 1998 Iraq Liberation Act to remove Saddam?

How many in Congress supported the UN resolutions against Saddam?

How many in Congress voted for the 2002 Iraq Authorization?

How many in Congress said they were lied to even though they are on record prior to their vote stating Saddam had WMD's and was seeking nuclear weapons?

Let's focus on what we can do to end the Iraqi war and get our soldiers out of Iraq.

Binding resolutions and defunding the war by Congress can do this.

73 US soldiers have been killed in Iraq since the 110th Congress took office. Congress has done NOTHING to end the Iraqi War nor the loss of our soldier's lives.

[davidwparker]

1. I think they are building to it. That is, investigations.

[harveyc]

2. Congress investigating whom? Themselves? ... n/t

[davidwparker]

4. Conyers and Waxman are both startup up there hearings.

We'll see what happens.

Sometimes we jump to wrong conclusions because we're not in the know. Example: People were down on Fitzpatrick because no charges were brought against Cheney, Rove, and *. Now, we see the trial unfolding and it promises to be the humdinger that we were wanting. Give things some time.

Merry Fitzmas!

[harveyc]

7. Time = more US soldiers killed in Iraq ... n/t

[davidwparker]

11. we're still a nation of laws. there needs to be investigation, indictment,

trial.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

20. So do you have a plan of action?

If Conyers and Waxman are too busy schilling for the PNAC to bring the troops home, what are we the people to do? I await only marching orders.

[Wizard777]

3. Pelosi went to Iraq and met with Maliki, You go Girl! n/t

[enough already]

8. Impeachment is a purely political act

Investigations are an excuse for not having the balls to do it. Schedule the vote and get it done now.

[davidwparker]

12. or we can get the pitch forks and torches out, encircle the White House,

drag * into the street and lynch him right there. just like in banana republics.

I prefer to follow the Constitution.

[enough already]

14. Weak straw man

Show me exactly where in the constitution it says you need 'investigations' before impeaching. I'll wait....forever.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

19. Shouldn't we be trying Pelosi for war crimes?

She is an accesory in all this for refusing to put impeachment on the agenda, no?

[Le Taz Hot]

22. Sounds good to me.

I'll get the rope.

Seriously, you look at the enormous amount of election fraud in the 2000 and 2004 and you DON'T think we're ALREADY a banana republic?

[davidwparker]

32. I was waiting for someone to post to the lynching part. :-))

And about voting ... Yes. I think we're a lot of things after the past 6 years. I've learned a lot about our real history and what we've done around the world (like Confessions of an Economic Hitman)

We have serious problems. Hopefully, we can get it together.

[bdrube]

5. Read My Lips: 2/3 Vote in the Senate

That's what it takes to convict on impeachment.  Heck we can't
even get 60 to vote to end the minimum wage fillibuster.

[harveyc]

6. Great point!!! ... n/t

[enough already]

9. Using this logic....

....I guess we shouldn't have voted for the minimum wage increase in the House. I mean, if we can't beat the filibuster, why did we waste our time voting in the House in the first place? All this investigation talk is utter bullshit. He's a liar and a fucking war criminal and he needs to be impeached NOW.

[barb162]

13. you'll have to keep repeating yourself on this

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

18. But that doesn't matter

This is the internet, and on the internet, reality bends to your messageboard political demands or its revolution, baby.

[kansasblue]

10. This is the right way....show we can govern first.

Earn the country's respect.... Then impeach.

[harveyc]

15. The Repugs would have a field day ...

with any hearings / investigations on the Iraqi war, for all the public to see.

The prior statements, on record, about Saddam / Iraq, about WMD's and nuclear capabilities, and the UN resolutions before Shrub are mind boggling!

IMO, a BIG mistake.

[Vidar]

16. Wouldn't want to rile the ruling class.

[oasis]

17. The Libby trial will reveal a ton of abuses by the Bush Administration. The American

public will be more receptive to an impeachment after it has digested an unbelieveble mass of information.

[conscious evolution]

21. And if Libby is not enough

there is Waxman and his coming revelations.
And Leahy and his coming revelations.
And Rockefeller.
And others.

What we are seeing is a methodical,albeit seemingly slow,concerted effort to reveal the extent of the crimes of bushco.

Thank of it like cooking popcorn.Put some kernals in an oiled pan.Apply heat.After a while a kernal will pop.Then another.And another.And then two or three at once.Next thing you know the kernals are coming so fast you can't keep track of them.
At that point youjust apply the salt,sit back,and enjoy.

[oasis]

26. That's what I plan to do--"apply the salt, sit back, and enjoy".

:bounce:

[Le Taz Hot]

23. That's what we said about Iran-Contra.

The investigation was half-assed and Daddy Bush pardoned the few that were convicted. And guess who is making up the Dictatortot's advisors and cabinet. Yep. The SAME people.

We need to quit being so naive and understand that it's the predator class protecting the predator class.

[oasis]

27. I'm saying that outcry for impeachment could emanate from the Libby trial since

many of the witnesses (Cheney, Rove) will be cross-examined and their misdeeds on will be exposed.The American public will demand accountability.

Bush may pardon Libby, Ari Fleishcer et. al, but that won't save his ass from an ultimate vote of impeachment.

[erpowers]

24. Think About Things

I think some people need to think about Gerald Ford. I think people fail to remember that Ford was not elected to the office of president nor was he ever the speaker of the house. I think some Democrats in Congress realize that if they push for impeachment Bush and Cheney could one up them. It is very possible that Bush and Cheney could do exactly what Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew did in 1973. It is very possible that Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew realized that they would both be impeached, but then decided to stop the Democrats from gaining the presidency. Everyone must remember that the Democrats were in the majority at that time.

On October 10, 1973 Spiro Agnew resigned as Vice President which allowed Richard Nixon to submit the names of people he wanted to replace Agnew. Ford was the person picked and on August 9, 1974 Richard Nixon resigned as President. Bush and Cheney could do the same thing. It is very possible that Pelosi and the other Democrats have realized what could happen. I think for the best case we could end up with Condi Rice as President and for the worse case we could end up with John McCain as President. I tend to think we would end up with John McCain as President. That would be bad in that McCain would continue the war and then have a very good chance of winning in 2008. Furthermore, dispite what is said by the media McCain himself says he is a hard right Republican. If the Democrats let McCain get the presidency he might just start a war with Iran.

I am not trying to insult anyone at DU by bring up Nixon and Ford, but I think we need to realize that impeaching Bush and getting Pelosi as President is not so cut and dry. It is very possible that we could end up with someone at least moderately worse than Bush. I think the idea of getting someone worse than Bush more likely the reason for Democrats taking impeachment off the table than Democrats being scared to confront the mistakes they made concerning Iraq.

[JPZenger]

25. Two Reasons

1. Cheney would be much worse.
2. There are far too few votes in the Senate who would even consider voting to remove him from office. A vote in the House would simply be distracting.

I read about one of many officials inside German intelligence during WWII who was cooperating with the Allies. He was asked about the possibility of assasinating Hitler. He said: "Why would you want to. He is screwing up the military situation so badly, he is the best ally that the allies have." The more Bush screws up, the better the Dems chances in 2008.

[pat_k]

28. Cutting funds is a useless demonstration of weakness. . .

. . .little better than their non-binding resolutions. Bush will just raid the budget or get the Saudi Royals to pony up.

It will be as effective as McCain's anti-torture amendment, passed by more than 90 Senators, and nullfied with a signing statement.

How many times do bushcheney have to demonstrate that they ONLY understand force?

There is NO other way. Only impeachment can stop them.

It is the irrational assumptions of their insular world that is keeping impeachment off the table. Those assumptions are almost NEVER challenged. That's the nature of assumptions: "Everybody knows," they "go without saying."

Any closed social system -- whether a department, an organization, a business sector, a political party, or a social world like the "beltway bubble"-- creates its own reality. Shared "insider" assumptions are rarely challenged or tested against reality. Unless challenged by outsiders, faulty assumptions beget faulty interpretations, which beget assumptions that diverge further and further from reality "outside."

The only way to keep the "created reality" you inhabit rooted in reality is to bring in outsiders and to take their challenges and observations VERY seriously or Get Out and spend a significant amount of time in another "world."

The insular world of the beltway does neither. They are ALWAYS surrounded by staffers and adherents who share in their collective insanity. The social pressures keep them in line (Dems in particular seem to fear doing anything that might get them dirty looks at the next cocktail party).

As politics has become increasingly professionalized, the beltway has become an increasingly closed and stable system. Within that closed system, the self-destructive assumptions behind the "created reality" of Democratic Party politics have been incredibly resistant to change.

Given the massive power and the number or outlets through which the "created reality" of the beltway is pounded into the public mind, injecting reality can seem like an uphill battle, but inject reality we must.

More . . http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2707095&mesg_id=2707670

[harveyc]

30. "Bush will just raid the budget or get the Saudi Royals to pony up."

That is a pretty wild hypothesis, since the Congress can also set US troop level caps, besides defunding the war.

Who's troops would fight this war, Saudi's?

[pat_k]

31. He'd just nullify legislative caps with another signing statement. . .

. . .he's done it to every other legislative attempt to reign him in.

You really think the person who nullified McCain's anti-torture amendment, passed with more than 90 of 100 Senators, would hesitate to nullify a deployment cap?

Even if they submitted to caps, what have you done to change the dynamics? We'd remain a war criminal nation that refuses to use any diplomatic levers -- they only know military force.

Bush, Cheney, and their like only know violence and force. They only respond to "violence" (force of impeachment).

Only impeachment can stop them.

[bluehighways911]

29. Great Points

But you are talking to people that don't put that kind of thought into it.

I guess they believe by spending two years trying to impeach, and probably failing.

America will be happy that is all they did.

Well yeah, did nothing on health care, jobs, global warming.

But that two year bs trial was well worth are Country digging a bigger hole.

[TankLV]

33. Because it's entering the pipeline and getting to where it's needed?

and gaining traction and speed...

Just my guess...

[RiverStone]

34. I'm for impeachment, but...

We'd remove Shrub far quicker if we picked up the "investigations" pace a little bit with the hopes of coming across such damning lies that he would be forced to resign - just like Nixon did.

If we look at how easily the rethugs in the Senate have stalled on the minimum wage increase, can you imagine how long it would take to get impeachment through? At this point, not before the Texas Idiot returns to Crawford. Believe me, I'd love someone in the House to enter Articles of Impeachment for a Vote - but the quickest way to get Shrub out - INVESTIGATE!