Democrats Against Hillary?

[Kevin Spidel]

I do not intend this as flame bait.

But I just posted this on my personal blog: http://spidel.net/blog/?p=1030

You can read more in that link...

But I am curious.. after this interview of Hagel in Truthout: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012907A.shtml

Can you imagine Hillary v. Hagel in 2008. How does Hillary give us ANYTHING positive to build on and attract voters to the party? Help me understand?


*on edit: yes I know the full Hagel platform, and I did not make this mean to sound a one issue post... but more about consistency and using the Iraq war as a mainstream issue.

[WI_DEM]

1. it's unlikely Hagel will get his parties nomination, but if he does

on every other issue but Iraq he is a very strong conservative including on stem cell research and choice.

[Kevin Spidel]

3. I agree...

but there are many dems who are voting straight war issue.

this hagel factor AND hillary now in.. just makes us rethink, seriously, about the nomination and general election viability.

I honestly think... as democrats... we really need to firewall her!

[dmallind]

8. Single issue voting is almost alwasy short sighted

Letting single issue voting - especially on an issue which should be essentially moot by the next inauguration as far as real practical effect goes - determine whether a moderate Dem or a wingnut James Dobson mouthpiece gets the WH is flat out insane.

[Greyhound]

12. Right, because as we all know, over half of the population has government

property within their lower abdomen. Why should this be an issue important enough to base your decision on?:sarcasm:

[AtomicKitten]

2. wow - just wow

[Kevin Spidel]

5. awww.. gimmie more...

wow to what? the thread? the blog post? the hagel interview? the hillary bashing? the what? gimmie something :) pleeeeeeze!

[AtomicKitten]

25. Hagel has voted all along with * and is a fave of the evangelical wingnuts

I repeat, wow!

[dmallind]

4. Well let's see

If you see an anti-choice theocracy as negative there's a pretty simple opportunity there.

Hagel has THE most lock-step record vote with Bush. He disagrees on one subject and one subject alone. Just because that happens to be something a lot of Dems agree with Hagel on (for different reasons usually) does NOT mean Hagel isn't just Bush with Brains but without the personal vendetta against Iraq and Iran, because that's about what he is. Hagel would be easy to defeat based on his singularly conservative and wingnut voting record on.....well everything but this specific war of choice.

[eddiemunster]

6. Hillary

This weekend Hillary kept repeating that she was fooled by GW into voting yes on his Iraq invasion. So essentially...Hillary was fooled by a moron. Inspiring...

Kucinich-08

[Kevin Spidel]

7. "Hillary was fooled by a moron"...

Your quote is dead on. And most American's will feel the same.

[SaveElmer]

24. It's a ridiculous throw away line...

Folks use when they haven't looked at the facts...

[oasis]

22. Hillary hesitates to outright call Bush a liar. I do give her credit for not

falling all over herself to greet him at the recent SOTU as did a few other Democrats. :think:

[Bitwit1234]

9. Do you really know what Hillary stands for OR

what the press says she stands for. Hillary Clinton is doing a fantastic job of overcoming all the negative press she has received for the last 16 years from the republican press.

Example.....they had an article on Think Progress (Ithink it was) were some of the people at the Iowa campaign stop that said she had a wonderful warm pleasing personality. They said according to all the TV and newspapers she had been painted as a cold fish and THAT IT WAS 100% WRONG.

And as for her voting to go to war. I am so damn sick of that I don't know what to do. The president of the United States laid out (supposed) evidence that Saddam was a threat. Why would congress not believe him, over half the country did. NOW THEY KNOW HE WAS LYING. But at the time they didn't, so what's the big deal. She says ..now...this minute...that if she had known she wouldn't have voted that's all she can say. She won't get the nomination - somebody who is unelectible like Kunich will probably get it. Not that he isn't a good man. But he is like Walter Mondale the people don't want him. That's the trouble with the democrats they tear down all the candidates and each other worst than the republicans do. No wonder they all say democrats are unorganizated.

[Greyhound]

15. I think you are conflating The Democratic Party with the citizens within

the democratic party. It is The Democratic Party, in conjunction with the corporate media, that tears down progressive candidates, just like they did to Mondale and McGovern before him.

And BTW, everybody I've ever talked to that follows government and politics at all, knew the so-called evidence was utter bullshit from the very beginning. To suppose that those in the sausage factory didn't is naive beyond plausibility.

[wyldwolf]

10. What is getting so glaring about posts like this is the OP seldom mentions who he/she backs in '08

[Kevin Spidel]

11. Edwards... straight and honest...

I am a 100% John Edwards supporter.

I am a poverty and health care voter.

[wyldwolf]

14. what exactly has Edwards done on poverty and health care while in office?

he talks a good game. But what have been his actions?

[wyldwolf]

16. crickets chirping....

[Kevin Spidel]

18. excuse me for allowing myself to respond to another thread...

before you calling me out that I did not respond in the 30 seconds you allowed me to....

Edwards, to me, is the only one addressing issues of poverty in a meaningful way. He was the only candidate in the running who helped build up the minimum wage coalition in the neighborhoods which passed as initiatives in several states this last election that truly needed it. he is working with acorn to build these sustainable organizing bases of support for long term organizing around the issues of poverty and non-privileged communities.

he is the ONLY one dealing with my generations "pearl harbor" which was not 9/11... but Katrina!

sorry... i am with him 100%. this is about us as a party and what we are saying out priorities are with a candidate like Hillary as our potential nominee.


ok.. i need to get back to work.

[wyldwolf]

19. Show me something he did while a Senator that made a difference

[Kevin Spidel]

21. i am on the road for work now... but until i get back to a pc...

this will do for now:
http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Edwards.htm

[wyldwolf]

23. skipping down to your pet issues - poverty and healthcare....

I don't see anything he said or did that earns the reputation you want to give him.

[eddiemunster]

John's new teepee...

Quite the modest little cottage that Edward's is having built as we speak. LOL...

[SaveElmer]

13. Honestly...

Some Democrats have bought into the baseless meme that Hillary is unelectable, or that she is "like fingernails on a chalkboard" to average Democrats...this is simply not the case.

What we have are a bunch of coward Democrats afraid of what the Republicans are going to do...

Say what you want about polls this far out, but what they do say is that Hillary is popular with the Democratic rank-and-file, she is a very credible candidate not only to get the nomination, but to defeat any Republican put up against her...

Instead of rubbing your hands together, whining about Hillary, go out and work for who you want to be the nominee....and once that nominee is chosen stop the whining, bitching and moaning and get to work...

This is not directed at the OP directly but those whose sentiment matches the blog entry.

[Kevin Spidel]

17. huh? .... "baseless"

your argument is:

there is a "baseless meme"

so that means you have some facts? i mean without facts, it would also be "baseless" right?

so then when you bring up facts.. as in "numbers" you preface it with "Say what you want about polls"

then you point out the facts show she is strong with "rank-and-file" Democrats. Which was exactly my point. My fear is that popularity is indeed strong, but it is the cross over vote I am afraid she will not garner.

Which current polls show:
http://rasmussenreports.com/Political%20Tracking/Presidential%20Match-Ups/presidentClintonvMcCainvGiuliani.htm

http://strategicvision.biz/political/results.htm

McCain victory over Hillary.

Listen, I am working hard for MY candidate, John Edwards. This is not about your views and your opinion. But your argument on how my claim is "baseless" just warrants me wondering what is "factual" about your response?

[SaveElmer]

20. Last Three released polls...

From Newsweek, Time, and WP all show Hillary leading McCain, and Newsweek and WP have her beating Guiliani as well...

Rasmussen poll you cite is more than 2 months old...and nevertheless shows a very close race...

Here are the latest...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16840614/site/newsweek/

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1582130,00.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=2810376&page=1

[Moderator]

26. Locking

Flamebait.