Heads up to candidates who have called Wes Clark a Republican....

[Rowdyboy]

Right now is not a good time to ask for my vote. Your accusations and behavior toward a good Democrat and his supporters was totally inappropriate. Words mean things and hurt. That accusation was totally uncalled for.

I will vote for the Democratic nominee whoever it may be; unlike some, I'm committed to the party and reliably vote Democratic-every election. I don't have to be bribed to win my support.

For now, leave us alone; let us lick our wounds. This has been an extremely painful experience for many of us. Show some patience and tact. We are loyal Democrats and we'll come around when we're good and ready and not a minute before.

I've edited this thread several times to remove inflamatory words that were in the original draft (which would have been locked). Hopefully this will pass muster.

[bicentennial_baby]

1. Word

Freakin vultures, I tell ya!

[Kahuna]

14. Hey Baby!

You wise beyond your years!

:yourock:

[liberalnurse]

2. Here you go my fellow democrat......

:pals:

Clark is an outsider......they won't let an outsider become one of the boys anymore.......

Make no mistake, the DLC/DNC are the promoters of eating our young.

[DancingBear]

6. Long ago

I heard those charges from Dean supporters and laughed.

How wrong I was.

[Maddy McCall]

27. Wait. Seems I remember a "Clark is ill" thread...

which was a calculated smear intended to make DUers question if he was healthy enough to govern as president.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=86201

Now we are "pals" because he's out of the race? Sorry, but your overture rings hollow to me and others who remember the vitriol from a couple of months ago. In my opinion, the DLC/DNC are not our enemies.

How can some folks here so easily appeal to us now that Clark is out, when only a couple of weeks ago, they were calling him and his supporters Republicans.

Just because Clark is gone does NOT mean that we now have anything in common or will consider supporting the candidates who were the ugliest toward Clark and us.

:eyes:

[OKNancy]

32. Oh GOD--- that's the thread that made me post

the pin-up picture of Clark on Christmas Day.

[Maddy McCall]

36. Please, share with me!

I adored the Advocate's cover. He looked youthful and fine (bestill my heart!) in that photo. ;-)

[HuskerDem]

33. Thanks for posting that

Now I know who's grave to go dance on when the opportunity is manifest.

[HuskerDem]

34. UFO

I'm getting my dancing shoes on.

[mmonk]

3. It certainly

makes it harder to garnish support. I still make my decision on the issues though and my knowledge and belief system.

[mmonk]

20. That is

garner support (not garnish, my bad).

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. He could never nail down the

parsley vote.

;(

[Rowdyboy]

23. You people are so bad!

I needed a good laugh and you gave me two! :thumbsup:

[mmonk]

29. Do pickles make a good garnish?

I don't want sour grapes.

[bitchkitty]

4. Why so circuitous? Why not just say Dean?

And why not admit that it was a legitimate question, given some of Wes Clark's own remarks. From what I remember of your contributions to this board, you would not have voted for Dean in any case.

[maddezmom]

5. one reason

it wasn't just Dean.

[funky_bug]

8. How ya doin' today, maddez?

Did you get any sleep last night?

Chin up, okay? We'll get through this... and if CERTAIN people keep throwing shit our way, we'll have some fun racking up a few slams.

[funky_bug]

7. Nice - more salt?

Look, this is tough. We had FAITH and a belief in our candidate, and now we're wounded. You want to rub salt in our wounds? Not a good idea.

The Dean people haven't been the worst of the vultures... hell, the Edwards camp started in on us yesterday before one single flippin' vote was counted. But make no doubt about - there are a lot of Clark supporters who WILL be casting a vote for someone, and that is apparantly NOT a well kept secret.

I can pretty much say with certainty that all of us will always be Wes Clark Democrats, but we're not ready to join anyone's bandwagon today.

Y'all might want to back the f up and let us heal.

[Kahuna]

17. No bandwagon for me until the nominee is selected.

That's the best I can do.

[bitchkitty]

44. Sorry to be so insensitive, but after

what transpired on this board in the past weeks, I can't empathize with anyone else's pain. I just plain do not give a shit anymore, and I'm beginning to realize that this is not where I belong. This board, or this country. I guess I took it all to heart, and that was a mistake. A heart can be broken just so many times before the damage is irreparable. I've apologized to rowdyboy via PM, but I don't think that I should endure censure by anyone who saw what was happening here, and let it happen.

[Rowdyboy]

9. Entirely untrue....

For a long time Dean was my second choice. Then he began the relentless name-calling and, yes, he did drop way down my personal list. In the last year I have posted exactly 3 negative comments about Dean, all on the night following his partisan charges on Clark. Feel free to search for more; I'll be happy to apologize if you can find them.

This is not intended as an anti-Dean thread. Others also questioned Clark's party affiliation. I will vote for the Democratic nominee-be he Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, Sharpton or Dean. I am a Democrat-not a Clark-Democrat. My vote is "transferable". My point is, now is not the right time to solicit my vote.

And no, it was not a legitimate question. It was a cheap shot, unworthy of a serious candidate for president.

But that, like everything else, is just my opinion.

I do suggest, however, that supporters of the remaining candidates watch what they say, because you people represent your various candidates-many represent them poorly by attacking when reasoning would work far better.

[Kahuna]

16. That Dean name-calling was uncalled for and unseemly.

Dean is the master of his own fate, as we all are.

[Mass_Liberal]

25. I agree

I felt so bad that Dean was alienating Clarkies. I felt bad enough that I started numerous threads apologizing for Dean.

And now, I am scared to death that Dean will have alienated Clark voters that otherwise would gladly have voted for him (after Clark dropped out).


Ugh. All I can say to you now, is that if Clark and Dean are both destroyed, then everyone will be able to say, outsider candidates are no good, jump on the DNC bandwagon. And that my friends, will suck.

[OKNancy]

35. Hey, there were some Dean people who

posted every ill-founded smear...but certainly not the only ones.
I don't recall the Kerry people being that nasty. Also, Dean himself called Clark a Republican, but at least he didn't call him crazy or a stalking horse for the Clintons, or put up by the Stephens Group ( which I now read that there was a lot of animosity toward Clark in the Stephens Company when Clark started bashing Bush..and they were glad to get rid of him)

I think former bashers of Clark and his supporters need to cool it and not post "oh I'm so sorry" I don't believe it for a minute.

[Renew Deal]

10. Dean, Kerry's NH manager, Lieberman

But Dean was the most recent.

[LiberalBushFan]

11. well now that we've started on names

Kerry, first on his NH fliers

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. That is an absolutely false charge.

The flyers did not say that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=188951

[Maddy McCall]

19. I still will not vote for Dean in any case...

won't have too. Stick a fork in him...he's been done a LOOOONG time.

[ShaneGR]

12. John Edwards never called Clark a Republican

Lieberman did. And I believe Dean did, but he calls everyone Republicans, and cockroaches.

[mmonk]

13. I don't believe anyone

accused Edwards.

[Kahuna]

15. Snarf!

:7

[Maddy McCall]

18. You were a lot more diplomatic than I intended to be, but here's my...

statement on the present conditions:

Last night, those same supporters posted 10 "I feel your pain" threads. I don't really read sincerity in those threads, and people who do are, in my opinion, naive. I have a feeling that those "sympathetic" posters (supporters of the candidate that was VERY ugly to my man) had a discussion going on off the board (either through PM or through their alternate "underground" website) and had made a decision to attempt to court us to attract us to their camp, and then to prod us to be a part of their "nobody but candidate X" "write in" campaign.

While some people on DU are extremely fickle and change candidates with the wind, based on how candidates' supporters treat them, I choose and support the candidate I feel has the most to offer my party and my nation. It has NOTHING to do with attacks or niceties from this or that supporter.

Rowdy, I am like you: I am committed to the party and I also reliably vote Democratic in every election. I won't support a candidate who will bring ruin to our party. I won't be bribed into supporting a candidate based on sugar-coated threads from his supporters. This is NOT the first Democratic presidential race in which I have invested my energies in a candidate and have been disappointed by the outcome. I am a seasoned Democrat and I have the scar material (AND THE MEMORY OF PREVIOUS PRIMARY SEASONS, unlike some of the people who say they will go third party or write in a candidate who is not our nominee) to prove it.

And I remember who McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Hart, Muskie,Tsongas, and Brown were--I didn't educate myself on Democratic Party history during this election cycle. And I become very agitated with people here who claim to be "experts" on this primary season, who know next to nothing about our Party history, and then who turn around and insult those of us who have been here for decades as "establishment" Democrats because we reject their candidate. All of this will remain etched in my memory, but won't influence my choice of candidates. However, it does determine whom I respect and whom I do not (and, frankly, at whom I laugh) at this website.

Whomever I decide, I will support him as enthusiastically as I supported Clark. I am not stuck in the rut (or the trap) of considering myself ONLY a Clark Democrat. I am not a part of a faction, I am not part of a sub-party. I am a true Democrat and I will vote for the nominee. Anyone who considers doing anything else is not a Democrat and has NONE of my respect.

[Kahuna]

22. Wonderful post, JChild.

I hope that some of our younger posters will consider the wisdom of what you have posted.

Wisdom is not something one can will for oneself. Wisdom comes with age. If one cuts off their nose to spite their face, they will soon realize how precious that nose was.

If we as Democrats refuse to support the eventual nominee we will end up with bush and then end up wishing that we had participated in the process instead of sitting it out because we feel shunned.

[Rowdyboy]

24. One advantage of getting older is increased perspective

This being my ninth active presidential election, I think I'm a little more astute than I was in 1972 and 1976. I've seen the damage that throwing away a vote can do-I don't make mistakes like that anymore. Everyone else, however, is welcome to learn at their own speed.

Just don't come bitching when Chief Justice Scalia and Justices Miguel Estrada, Charles Pickering and Roy Moore (of 10 commandments fame) join Clarence Thomas in overturning the election of 2008.

[Mass_Liberal]

28. that's not fair

re: paragraph 1

I wrote one of those threads because Clark was my #2, and I was sad that he dropped out. I was totally sincere, and you have no evidence to the contrary. I honsestly like Clark. I didn't court votes or any of that shit. I just wanted to say that I was sad.

[Anwen]

37. jchild,

It may be hard to read sincerity on a computer screen, but I know I'm not the only one who felt pain for you guys last night. I actually cried during Clark's speech, after hearing that he was going to drop out. Clark was a close second on my list after Dean, and I know in reality Dean most likely isn't going to make it. I will cry too when that happens.

Sincerity isn't easily evident in text form. So it's not fair to say that our support threads for you guys were just a crude attempt to get you guys to cross-over to the other side. You guys are obviously capable of making your own decisions -- Clark was in my opinion one of the very best decisions you could make.

I can see your point if you saw those threads written by people that bashed your candidate, but the ones I saw last night were by people who greatly admire Clark.

[Maddy McCall]

39. Thank you

I appreciate your words and your sincerity. My statement was not aimed at people like you who have never bashed Clark, but to those who have--the same ones who offered the olive branch last night.

However, there were numerous threads last night by people who bashed Clark from the day he entered the race--from people who have proponed a third party and write-in "revolution."

Those are the people to whom I am speaking. Not you. Thanks for your comments.

[Capn Sunshine]

41. Well , I DON'T Feel your pain

as the closed minded message indicates the political "love it or leave it" viewpoint, and make NO concession to anybody else. I expect no less of a message from the people who aren't comnfortable with the messenger OR the message.

When someone votes republican, I feel entitled to call him one. Certainly the outrageous behavior by certain candidates supporters on this BB are exemplary of the things I will not soon forget either. And to those who would question MY party credentials, My great Grand dad worked for the Dems. My Grand dad worked for the dems. They educated me on the ways of the world early and often, and I have worked within and for the Democratic Party at a national and state level for 34 years.

I don't need someone else to tell me when someone is "establishment" and when they aren't. I have plenty of scars on my head and bullet holes in my ass from my encounters with the "establishment" in the past thank you very much and one thing I have learned in all that time is no matter WHAT, if you don't like something, you stand up. Sure that makes you a better target, but you stand up.

In case any of you have forgotten, WAR is a scam and there are always alternatives. But I don't need pontification because someone isn't prepared to hear the truth , and if one does not recognize an Established, entrenched set of interests who have battled for the last ten years not to change anything, and have voted against the common interest every time it really counted, and didn't stand up and say NO when we needed them to, and just recently kicked both MY candidate AND Wesley Clark's candidacy to the curb through a concentrated media carpet bombing and elective system shenanigans I can't help any of you.

[Bread and Circus]

26. Here's another heads up...I am not voting for any candidate that

called Wes Clark a Republican.

That means I am writing in Clark come 11/2004.

[HuskerDem]

30. That's the DAMN truth

except for the Democrat part. I was a left Indy before Clark, as soon as my insignificant primary is over and I exercise my right to vote for Clark back to an Independent I will go.

I've voted for every Dem candidate for Prez since I came of age and I'm sure not going to buck that trend this election BUT: You don't own me, Democratic party. I'm sick of being taken for granted.

[DU GrovelBot]

31. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

RUN C:\GROVELBOT.EXE
 
This week is our first quarter 2004 fund drive.
Please take a moment to donate to DU. Thank you
for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[PatGund]

40. I wonder.....

......how much damage Edwards and Edwards supporters did to themselves and their campaign with utter lies and bullshit they spewed against Clark.

I had no problems with Dean, even when some of his supporters were a bit rabid. And no problems with Kerry, even though I find him lackluster. But I deeply loathe and despise Edwards at the moment, and the only way he will ever get a vote from me is if by some ill chance, he actually gets the nomination.

[TexasSissy]

42. Here, here, Rowdboy! Needed to be said!

Sniff sniff.


Signed,
fellow Clarkie

[John_H]

43. Revenge is not the issue. Dean couldn't beat bush if bush withdrew.

That's why Dean deserves no support from clark supporters.

[arewethereyet]

45. never heard it from me and good luck finding the right guy for you

whoever it happens to be.