NYT: Antiwar Anger at ’02 Iraq Vote Follows Clinton (Yesterday: "There are others to choose from.")

[DeepModem Mom]

Antiwar Anger at ’02 Vote on Iraq Follows Clinton
By PATRICK HEALY
Published: February 18, 2007

One of the most important decisions that Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton made about her bid for the presidency came late last year when she ended a debate in her camp over whether she should repudiate her 2002 vote authorizing military action in Iraq.

Several advisers, friends and donors said in interviews that they had urged her to call her vote a mistake in order to appease antiwar Democrats, who play a critical role in the nominating process. Yet Mrs. Clinton herself, backed by another faction, never wanted to apologize — even if she viewed the war as a mistake — arguing that an apology would be a gimmick.

In the end, she settled on language that was similar to Senator John Kerry’s when he was the Democratic nominee in 2004: that if she had known in 2002 what she knows now about Iraqi weaponry, she would never have voted for the Senate resolution authorizing force.

Yet antiwar anger has festered, and yesterday morning Mrs. Clinton rolled out a new response to those demanding contrition: She said she was willing to lose support from voters rather make an apology she did not believe in.

“If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to chose from,” Mrs. Clinton told an audience in Dover, N.H., a veiled reference to two rivals for the nomination, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.

Her decision not to apologize is regarded so seriously within her campaign that some advisers believe it will be remembered as a turning point in the race: either ultimately galvanizing voters against her (if she loses the nomination), or highlighting her resolve and her willingness to buck Democratic conventional wisdom (if she wins)....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/18/us/politics/18clinton.html

[MissWaverly]

1. hope everyone gets to see this

since I believe that this is going to be critical to her campaign.

[BayCityProgressive]

2. hope she loses

or goes to Iraq herself.

[PresidentObama]

5. Thats uncalled for.

You want to send Senator Clinton to Iraq because she voted to give authority for the President to go to war? I didn't agree with her vote, but thats harsh. Very harsh. We shouldn't send ANYONE over to Iraq, and we should have them home.

I'm not a Hillary supporter, but that was very uncalled for. And laughable!

[Cocoa]

3. Hillary's not apologizing looks better to me than Edwards's apologizing

for what it's worth, which is not much since I don't support either of them.

[EndElectoral]

21. Edward's apolgizing looks a lot better to me than Hillary's GW type stubborness!

[Joe Bacon]

4. This is why I will support and vote for Senator Obama.

I got a problem with someone who cannot admit that they made a mistake.

[Pirate Smile]

6. I don't care if she apologizes or that Edwards did.

What I think is important is their judgment when it mattered.

It isn't like President's get to make decisions in a vacuum with perfectly crystal clear facts and all the evidence proving one thing.

Things are muddled and confused and conflicting. There is political pressure and "conventional wisdom" also entering the arena. There are long term implications to weigh.

Have they shown that they make good, sound judgments in those circumstances?

Isn't good judgment the most important trait needed in a President?

It is to me and I don't think it is any "angry" response. It feels quite calm and rational.

[BayCityProgressive]

9. I agree

bad judgement=bad president.

[Pirate Smile]

10. I'll vote for her if she wins the nomination.

I think she would be much better then any of the Republicans but I do think that you judge people based on past performance.

I agree with her - there are no do-overs - especially not on what many Senators have called the most important vote of their careers.

[Adelante]

12. This is what I say, too

Apologies are meaningless. It's judgment which matters.

[hezekkia]

19. what i dont get...

is all the people who are cooing over John Edwards because he apologized. He's basically saying he admits he had poor judgment on the major issue of his term in office.

[glitch]

7. "resolve" no longer carries the respect it used to.

Thanks to baby bush the word now defines as petty willfulness.
I prefer "flip floppers" who are open to input as things change, mature enough to acknowledge mistakes and smart enough to realize when they've made one.

[MissWaverly]

8. I agree a leader has to be flexible

and able to deal with criticism, look at FDR, he tried every approach to defeat the depression and was severely criticized for it, but he just kept trying new ideas
to jumpstart a failed economy. It's not expected to always make the right decision
but how do you deal with the consequences of that decision.

[calimary]

11. Man, that's for sure! "Resolve" is the one thing bush people and

purportedly objective pundits point to - and look what that fabulous "resolve" has done for us.

"Resolve" isn't what it used to be.

[roguevalley]

13. apologies aren't meaningless or the call wouldn't be there from

serious decent people in the public. if she thinks apologizing for what she herself says is a mistake is a gimmic, then she's even less worthy of my vote than I previously guessed.

the vote was a test of character, a chance for people to show that they would side with justice and truth and our national historical character even when faced with backlash. Many did. She didn't. Yet she expects us to be able to believe that faced with difficulties again, she would make the right choice? No thank you. You had a chance to show character. You didn't believe bush anymore than we did and you took the easier route. Others didn't. They have my respect. She never will.

[calimary]

20. Indeed. At least Edwards has the guts and maturity to recognize

he voted wrong, AND to apologize openly for it. It takes courage to acknowledge mistakes. If there's any doubt, let's look again at the test case in the Oval Office now - he-who-never-admits-he's-fucked-up. To dance around it with coy, ever-changing verbiage just doesn't do it for me.

I WILL support her if she winds up as our nominee. Of course. But it's not a prospect I'm looking forward to.

[glitch]

26. It does make me want to work harder in the primaries for the "others to choose from"

which works for me :evilgrin:

[LibDemAlways]

14. I don't think she'll be able to overcome that vote.

Her steadfast refusal to apologize for it, to admit that it was a colossal mistake, may well cost her the nomination.

[PassingFair]

31. One can only hope!

AND VOTE...

[Demeter]

15. A GIMMICK!!!!!!

Please excuse my outrage; there is NO excuse for Hillary!

[heidler1]

16. Hillary's pig headed refusal to admit she was wrong just makes me suspicious that

like Bush, she too, never has made a mistake. To me the telling fact about putting our troops on the ground in harms way was/is the religious way that Muslims are raised with a willingness to die for a cause. This was apparent from reading history. The Russians suckered into this hell hole and finally went home. The only successful way to make war with them is like Clinton did in Bosnia. Keep bombing them till they give up. Sure you can't get their oil that way, but we won't get this way either.

[Major Hogwash]

17. If she would not have run for the Senate in 2000, Gore would have been in the White House.

Because the right-wingers that hated the Clintons used the fact that Hillary wanted to be a Senator to attack all Democrats, especially Al Gore.

[PresidentObama]

18. First off, Gore didn't lose. Second off, don't blame Hillary.

This is stupid. Someone above made the statement we should send Hillary into Iraq, and now this??

I know some of you don't like her. And she's clearly not my first choice, but give me a break guys. She isn't to blame for what happened in 2000. Especially since the state she ran in, Gore carried. Gore won, the Supreme Court is the only reason Bush is President right now. Period. Nothing to do with Hillary.

[election_2004]

22. For me, the IWR isn't a litmus test

Quite frankly, how a presidential candidate voted or didn't vote or would have voted is irrelevant to my decision.

I oppose Hillary Clinton as an individual candidate because she pulled strings to "clear the field" (via her strong-armed cronies) for Moynihan's U.S. Senate vacancy solely with the intention of using that seat to run for president.

Why else do you think the MSM painted Kerry as "the underdog" throughout the 2004 presidential election, in spite of the shitpile Bush had left behind him during his first three years in office?

They've been setting the stage for a "Hillary vs. the Right-Wing" showdown ever since January 2001.

[Major Hogwash]

32. Touche.

I agree with that analysis totally.

[Major Hogwash]

30. Then you probably weren't paying attention very closely in 2000.

Because the right-wingers bashed Hillary and Gore in the same breath during the entire 2000 campaign. And yes, Gore did lose.
If he hadn't have lost, he would have been in the White House in 2001!!

And we wouldn't be bogged down fighting an unwinnable war in Iraq like we are today, 6 years later.

Deal with the reality of the situation and try not to get too emotional over it by making ludicrous claims that Gore didn't lose.
Gore conceded, he lost.

Hillary doesn't care about you, or about me, or about anyone but herself!
After nearly 20 years of screwing up this country by either the Bushs or the Clintons, I'm ready for a change.

[sampsonblk]

23. Yes, that's Major Hogwash-nt

nt

[Major Hogwash]

33. Reality hurts those who are asleep the most.

Because when they wake up from their dreamy, little dreams, they find that not everything is what they thought it was and then wonder why.

[cut.your.crap]

24. Hill is going to run out of steam...

by the end of the summer. By then, things will be so out of control with the war, gas will be $3.50+ a gallon again and they will finally admit the economy is in the crapper.
At this point, Democrat or Republican, most Americans will feel so much anger, so much betrayal, we will no longer support any elected officials (assuming we have a functional brain) and a yet to be determined outsider will run as ending politics as usual.
Most people I know in my blue collar world refer to Democrats as "same as Republicans, with a hipper line of bullsh*t" and I tend to agree with them.

[AtomicKitten]

25. she's is no more (or less) responsible

for her 'yes' vote on the IWR than the other 27 Senators

[Major Hogwash]

34. And yet she agrees with Bush's positions about ramping up a war with Iran.

How many times has Hillary gone out of her way to agree with Bush's position to "warn" Iran?
At least a dozen times in the last 2 months.
It's incredible.
As if she didn't learn from her mistake last time.

[AtomicKitten]

36. That is major hogwash.

[MadHound]

27. Yes Hillary, there are others to choose from

And you unwillingness to admit your very own mistakes vis-a-vis the IWR make those alternatives the only real viable option. Your willingness to take the anti-war left to task for their termitity in criticizing your decisions say one thing, you are unwilling to listen to, or compromise with a large segment of the Democratic party. This aloof stubborness makes you unfit for any office, much less the highest office in the land.

Yes, Hillary, there are others, and I urge everybody to vote for them.

[Colobo]

29. Yep, other candidates

that happen to be much better than her. :)

[ima_sinnic]

28. so it's Hill's way or the highway--my my--shades of gwb

well, you get what you vote for. if you want someone who will NOT respond to your impassioned pleas NOT to pursue a suicidal course of war and occupation, whose own ego is more important than the security, welfare, and well-being of We The People, whose allegiance is to the corporate predators and their overwhelming greed, then choose the repuke, or choose Hillary.

[PassingFair]

35. We need a viable anti-Iraq war candidate STAT!

Or we will have her crammed down our throats.

Mr. Gore.....paging Mr. Gore!

[AtomicKitten]

37. I hope he's listening

and I hope he does America a solid by running.

[Colobo]

38. We already have him

His name is Barack Obama.