Politics and Cynicism - my thoughts as a Kucinich supporter

[tinanator]

I was just considering a post about the incompatiblity of Hope and Cynicism, when I saw the other thread title. Whatever leads people to desperate notions of a write in pledge of fidelity certainly doesnt fit under the ABB tent. Right now the only thing holding back a landslide victory for Dennis Kucinich is the embedded cynicism that is sometimes susceptible to the evermorphing "electability" taint fostered by any given interested party at any time towards any candidate. A deeply rooted post Reagan America view of socioeconomic responsibility warped by the same Bush Wallstreet mindfuck we now decry/recognize more widely as the great Satan, but not so much for the illegal and unjust murder of TENS OF THOUSANDS HUMAN BEINGS to further petrochemical interests, but because we want "our guy" in his spot. So dont talk about the War, its not important, not a winning issue. Look at the medals on this guy! He'll save us. Pay some attention to the men behind the curtain. It's not too late.
Back Kucinich with everything you have, it is in everyones best interest, here and abroad. Forget the Horse Race, the Coronation ceremonies. Try to focus on the real political issues that make Politics necessary. Serve yourself and others by backing the Kucinich message all the way. You cant lose.

[goodhue]

1. right on!

[IrateCitizen]

11. Goodhue, I love your DK graphic!

Being originally from the Pittsburgh area -- another city with a high concentration of Polish descendants -- I can attest to Dennis's "pillars of civilization"!

I smile everytime I see one of your posts now, just because of that pic.

[Desertrose]

2. I know..it could be that simple

just back Dennis...it makes no sense that we continue to believe all that others tell us...the media, the right...why??

"Back Kucinich with everything you have, it is in everyones best interest, here and abroad. Forget the Horse Race, the Coronation ceremonies. Try to focus on the real political issues that make Politics necessary. Serve yourself and others by backing the Kucinich message all the way. You cant lose."


thanks tinanator
Peace &HOPE
DR

[redqueen]

3. Great post

:toast:

[mountebank]

4. I'll second that. What is electability?

Has a defensible definition of electability ever been provided? I have yet to see it here on DU. But it is depressingly difficult - even here - to expose the ignorance and fear lurking behind the term.

[IrateCitizen]

6. "Electability" is basing your decisions on what others think

That's it, at its essence. And, sadly, it is a hallmark attitude of the American experience.

Each and every day we base our decisions on what others think -- what kind of car we drive, what brand of clothes we wear, etc.

"Electability" in politics is just a natural extention of this same twisted philosophy.

[Mairead]

22. Actually, IC, it's even worse: basing them on what you THINK they think

So anyone who does that is not only surrendering their power, but surrendering it to a propagandistic construct, a figment of the imagination implanted by the corporatocracy!

[Iverson]

28. How about this?

Electachoosability is based upon a guess about whether others will think still others will call a candidate electable.

[Mairead]

33. YOWZAH!

:) :) :)

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

17. Ouch!

Brutal! I love it. :)

[loftycity]

5. That was a good one...

[corporatewhore]

7. kucinich can unite liberals and conservatives on one issue

Free trade nobody and i mean nobody is happy when their jobs go to india lou dobbs is speaking out against freetrade doesnt this mean something to anybody

[redqueen]

8. Nope

The 8-ball says he can't win against bush, and no one questions the 8-ball!

[rucky]

9. Idealism + Fear = Cynicism

Cynics are idealists who have set high standards for society, yet have no expectations for society to live up to those standards - and fear making the emotional investment necessary to bring about change. They don't eschew the ideal, they just see it as a lost cause. The elements of fear & hopelessness are shrowded in the "virtues" of realism & logic. But it is truly unrealistic & illogical to expect change & accept the current "reality" at the same time.

The only difference between a cynic and an idealist is hope. I sway back & forth between the two modes quite often, but leaders like Dennis Kucinich help keep me on track.

Starting a business has taught me one thing. It's easy to tear things down. It's harder to build things up - especially if you're trying to do it on your own. But letting yourself believe that an idea can become a reality makes it all the easier to achieve that goal. It's not just the first step - it's the most important one.

[redqueen]

12. " letting yourself believe that an idea can become a reality "

Yeah, that 'hope' thing, right? Imagine, if it ever caught on...
I agree with you that it's the most important step.

Wonderful post.

:toast:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. I know what you mean, rucky

When I left academia and went into the business of free-lance translating, I had to fight my own self-doubts and the well-meaning warnings of nearly everyone I knew (except the people who were themselves self-employed, all of whom said "Go for it"). They told me that I should take any old academic job no matter how bad. They searched the want ads for jobs for me. They told me that I had to have at least a part-time job. All the conventional wisdom told me not to go for self-employment.

I didn't listen, and I'm really, really glad.

Conventional wisdom isn't necessarily wisdom, but it's always conventional.

[Kanary]

19. Ya got me with that one

"Cynics are idealists who have set high standards for society, yet have no expectations for society to live
up to those standards - and fear making the emotional investment necessary to bring about change."

I used to be that pure idealist. I used to believe in the best of everyone.

After seeing enough of the ugliness, and being constantly marginalized and put down because of my views on what women need, what people in my situation of poverty need, what is necessary for interpersonal peace and seeing the lengths to which even good people will go to hurt another in order to gain power I have come to that place of not being able to even believe in the possibility anymore......so I guess that means I have no expectations left that society will even *begin* to live up to much of any standards.

I have a lot of elderly friends, and I can tell you this is the very thing that causes people to age and lose that joy in life. Being constantly put down in one way or another. One hopes to meet people who are capable of those ideas, but after enough times of painfully experiencing the opposite, hope *does* get lost.

It's tragic what we do to each other.

It's one thing that I would hope Dennis' Department of Peace would help to overcome.

Imagine... even peace at DU.

What a unique concept.

Kanary

[mmm]

10. Yes, back the Kucinich message all the way!

The Kucinich message is the correct message.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

13. But but but... his poll numbers! and his lack of money!!

Those are important, how else am I to decide who is best? I can't look at the issues, because that is an unfair way to judge candidates!

TWL

[redqueen]

15. LOL... judging based on the issues is unfair...

love it! :)

[no name no slogan]

18. You forgot about how funny-looking he is!

The American people will NEVER vote for somebody who's not photogenic. After all, Abraham Lincoln never won a presidential-- oh never mind.

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. If opposing the war were a winning issue

Dean or Kucinich would be winning. But they aren't.

[justinpower]

21. Are you implying DK is a single issue candidate?

I havent been here long but I have seen plenty of your posts and I know you stay informed. The reality is that if the media covered Dennis, he would have a much better shot. There is NO way to mince it. That is just a fact. As to why the media marginalizes him is an issue all its own, but lets not pretend the people are rejecting his issues. The people havent met him yet.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

23. well said justinpower

The people are not rejecting ideas that they have not been exposed to. That would be impossible. The media is rejecting the notion of allowing people to be exposed to those ideas is more like it.

TWL

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. Virtually everone here on DU is quite aware of DK's positions

Yet he doesn't have the support of even a plurality here.

[Iverson]

26. non-sequitur

A review of numbers is merely the beginning of a thought. tinanator's original post was more than a complete sentence, exploring cause and effect. A willingness to shut off analysis as soon as possible - or even to stop before one starts - tends to support the argument rather than refute it.

Perhaps you can offer your own insights on whether you agree or not that this is a phenomenon at work: "the embedded cynicism that is sometimes susceptible to the evermorphing "electability" taint fostered by any given interested party at any time towards any candidate."

It could take a whole paragraph, though.

[plurality]

30. look again pal, he's got this plurality

[tinanator]

32. reality of plurality

http://www.NYSIRV.org

[tinanator]

34. Im sorry

but everyone really needs to read that above link
aka
http://www.nysirv.org/

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. If the media gave him more coverage

more people would be aware of how far out of the mainstream he is. That wouldn't help his prospects that much.

[Iverson]

27. Let's explore this.

Does this mean that it's perfectly OK for the New York Times and broadcast news media to pre-emptively pretend he doesn't exist? Does this mean that he and Sharpton should be excluded from candidate debates?

Is it wrong, then, in retrospect to have covered Lieberman, Gephardt, and Clark? These ideas need to be more fully explained and developed.

[LWolf]

29. Ok.

You've convinced me. ;-)

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[stickdog]

35. Yes, how can you possibly lose by ensuring Kerry's victory?

I mean, even Kucinich's press secretary knows supporting Dennis is win-win!

It's just like the way Nader voters helped us all win big in 2000!

[tinanator]

36. I love you

I love you, so much :)

[rucky]

37. Show me a race where Kerry's beaten Dean by a margin smaller than

DK's raw numbers.

Try another theory.

[tinanator]

38. shameless kick

Im too lazy to retype all this somewhere else, AND I dont believe it deserves to be surrounded by locked threads on the last page :P