Dean Says He Favors Edwards Over Kerry

[rodbarnett]

WASHINGTON (AP) - It's not surprising that John Edwards says he would be a tougher opponent for President Bush than Democratic front-runner John Kerry. It raises eyebrows when Howard Dean says the same thing.

With the race's fourth major candidate, Wesley Clark, quitting the race, Edwards and Dean are ganging up on Kerry, winner of 12 of the 14 nominating contests so far. Dean told CBS News in an interview that will air Wednesday night that he believes Edwards would be the better candidate in the general election, even though Kerry has the advantage right now.

"My fear is that he actually won't be the strongest Democratic candidate," Dean told the network.

Asked about Dean's comment, Edwards told reporters: "I agree with that. I think that he is a very wise man. ... The truth is that this campaign to bring about change is working with independents and voters that we will have to get in order to win the general election."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040211/D80L8V0G0.html

[AP]

1. I'm starting to like this Dean fellow.

[Fleshdancer]

2. yeah right

:eyes:

[DemPopulist]

4. "A very wise man" indeed

}(

[RetroLounge]

5. Knew you would...

I saw Edwards on TV last night, and he's my #2 with a bullet.

[joshcryer]

15. Amazing, first good thing you said about him...

...honest truth.

[AP]

25. Everything I've said about him...

...has been my honest opinion.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

42. Can't argue with that

You have been nothing if not honest!

[DjTj]

56. That's the way to your heart isn't it AP?

...just say something nice about Edwards

[edzontar]

75. Oh please--- spare us all.

nt

[killbotfactory]

3. Dean's not the only one

Edwards > Kerry

[Sean Reynolds]

6. I do too.

[AP]

7. Let's just make sure we all jump on this bandwagon last.

[dawn]

8. Of course, I agree with him too.

But I also think Dean would be stronger than Kerry. Same with Kucinich. But apparently I'm out of touch with the mainstream.

[DesignGirl]

69. Many think the same

I am here in southern Virginia with many republicans. They are wanting someone new and talking about not liking Bush. The problem is they do not like Kerry. He is still seen as a wealthy condensending politician. They seem to like Edwards and Dean.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

9. Just call me the...

"Anti-Dean"!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

:puke:

:eyes:

[oasis]

10. Dean will be to Edwards what Gore was to Dean: poison.

[AP]

11. Explain the logic?

[oasis]

17. Desperate loser endorsement.

[AP]

21. Dean still stands for something more powerful than Gore.

Dean still has the veneeer of anti-establishment populism to trade on. Gore is still a loser in many people's eyes.

[oasis]

30. We'll see how it pans out in light of Dean's sour-grapes comments.

[Uzybone]

88. LMAO

ridiculous. Dean stands for something greater than Gore??? What an effing joke. Dean can hardly get 10% of DEMOCRATS to vote for him. Let alone independents and disillusioned GOPers.

[AP]

90. Admittedly, being better than Gore is a low bar. However, Dean has cleared

it.

[zls44]

13. Did Dean not diss Gore?

"I will support the Democratic nominee no matter who it is, I just fear it will again be the lesser of two evils."

"Again" Howard? As in what, last election? Isn't Al Gore a supporter?

Look, I like Dean behind Kerry, but when he says something like this questioning one of his big-name supporters, I wonder.

[oasis]

23. "it will AGAIN be the lesser of two evils" yeeeeearrrggg.

[spooky3]

40. He didn't give a date in the linked article.

How do you know he is referring to 2000 vs. 1980, 1984, 1988, (or earlier years) for example?

Sadly, recent history is full of examples where the Dems did not run the strongest candidates/campaigns.

[oasis]

47. Another unclear statement from Dean, or just another gaffe? This

is another example of why he's not ready for the big time.

[KaraokeKarlton]

65. Did you forget about Kerry dissing Gore TWICE?

First he basically told voters to "get over it" about the 2000 election and THEN he made the comment that "The guy that claimed to invent the internet didn't do so well". Apparently Kerry thinks Bush actually won the election. :shrug:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. He just killed Edwards' campaign. eom

[AP]

29. How?

[MessiahRp]

39. Absolutely

It seems to me that Dean is just playing the sore loser. The pissed off former frontrunner who has gotten his ass handed to him by Kerry and is now looking for any way he can to be spiteful towards him.

And hey for all you Dean people that were about to say, "Well Kerry played dirty" or "Kerry launched negative on us" let's be real. When Kerry was out getting treatment for Prostate Cancer, Dean was off playing dirty against him.

And for those of you from the Dean camp who believe Kerry supporters are sheep because they think the media is telling you who to vote for, regardless of how long they did that for Dean... Just remember Howard Dean threatened that his supporters will not support anyone but him. If you agree with that and do that, you then, are the sheep. Because the entire message of all these campaigns is to beat Bush and if you sit there and say, "my guy didn't win, I won't vote for the Democrat now", then you are as much the problem as the Republicans who blindly vote to the right, or non-voters who think voting is useless.

Dean will be trounced out soon, he's looking to grab onto anyone but Kerry because he hates the guy. Oh well, that's between them.

What bothers me is that some Dean supporters actually would rather be sheep than oust Bush, which means they never supported the message to begin with.

Rp

[WI_DEM]

52. so why is the media not giving Kerry the type of scrutiny

that Dean got day in and day out for months? It seems clear that Kerry is the corporate media's choice.

[Cuban_Liberal]

12. Again, Dr. Dean is correct.

:)

[LuminousX]

38. What could Edwards do with a multimillion dollar cash infusion?

[spooky3]

14. I've always believed Dean & Edwards have more in common

than they have differences. Maybe it's about "ganging up" but maybe it's something more than that.

[AP]

18. What Dean promised his supporters, Edwards can deliver with his

policies.

"You've got the power"? Edwards's college for everyone, tax code, concern for the working man -- that's how you deliver the power.

Furthermore, demographically, Edwards is a gift from god.

[SangamonTaylor]

51. they both want to change how DC operates

much like Clark.

Edwards has always said he's been in DC just long enough to know exactly what's wrong with it.

[BL_Zebub]

16. Dr Dean is right as usual

Though Edwards voted for the same detestable parts of the Bush agenda that Kerry did, at least he does not have the "Massachussettes Liberal" label on him, nor is he conncected with Skull & Bones or PNAC, or funded (to my knowledge) by FAUX News.

Edwards message of "one America" sounds great, but I'm concerned with his lack of experience. In any event, with Clark out of the running, Edwards is now the Devil's #2 candidate.

[joshcryer]

19. With Clark dropping out, Edwards is my second choice.

Edwards over Kerry any day.

[Mass_Liberal]

20. he's right

blantantly right. Hmmmm. Dean/Edwards anybody? How about Edwards/Dean?

[mohc]

55. As far as the balance theory goes...

...it works out well.

One executive, one legislator.

One northerner, one southerner.

One anti-IWR, one pro-IWR.

They also have very different styles, but both are inspirational. Dean can get a crowd fired up, Edwards can get a crowd moved with hope.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. Hey, I agree with Dean!`

What do you know!

[xultar]

24. WTF!!!!!!!! That doesn't make any effin sense! Edwards is way more

conservative than Kerry. Dean said that there were Rethuglicans in the race for sure Clark who else was he talking about Kerry? If he considers Kerry a rethuglican what is Edwards?

:shrug:

[AP]

28. Surface: appears more conservative than Kerry. Core: is most progressive

candidate, next to Kucinich, running in this election.

[dawn]

44. Exactly. he is very progressive at the core.

He's anti-NAFTA! How is that conservative?

[GreenArrow]

59. His stand on IWR is conservative

His vote for the Patriot Act is conservative.
His position on the death penalty is conservative.
His foreign policy and defense positions are conservative.
His position on the drug war is conservative.

Even Dick Nixon supported the Endangered Species act. Plenty of Liberatarian Conservatives are in favor of ending the drug war. I can find an occasional point of agreement with even the worst of Republicans; who would have ever thought Bob Barr, for example, would be working for the ACLU? Or that Alan Simpson would be pro-choice? I'm willing to accept that Edwards is liberal on some issues, but it is the totality of his positions on all issues that I'll grade him on, and he comes up for the most part a lot more conservative than I like.

[AP]

62. The single issue we should all confront: creeping fascism by the corporat-

ocracy.

Edwards is a living symbol of the battle against that.

- He didn't ask for the Patriot Act. He sat on the committe that turned it into something that wouldn't destroy the consitution, and he helped insert the sunset provision.

- I can't wait for the day when a liberal democrat can say they're against the death penalty and win a national election with the Republicans calling you soft on crime. If anyone is going to transition us to that world, it's Edwards

- His foriegn policy is that we have to stop making life better for the undemocratic leaders of foreign countries. We have to start building up wealthy middle classes around the world. He has said that about Iraq and about Afghanistan particularly. This is the definition of liberal internationalism. An up/down vote on the IWR is NOT the measure of a candidate's foreign policy (see discussion above about death penalty).

- What is his position on the drug war?

[GreenArrow]

66. well, you are certainly tireless and articulate in your defense

of him, and I have to respect you for that. We just see him differently.

The Democrats will never win a national election while saying the death penalty is wrong, if they don't start arguing the point. Someone has to start sometime; should Democrats wait until Republicans start arguing against the death penalty? The Democrats need to stop letting the Republicans determine what is or isn't "soft on crime."

One of the more heinous and craven things I've ever witnessed in politics was Bill Clinton rushing back to Arkansas to oversee the execution of mentally retarded Ricky Rector. How can the public be bothered to change their view of the death penalty when their nominal leaders encourage their lust for it? Life is cheap, when used for political gain, I guess.

I'll respond further directly.

[AP]

70. In the face of creeping fascism, you really want to turn this election...

...into a referendum on the death penalty?

What if FDR's presidency were turned into a referendum on race and he got the boot and Republicans crept in in the wake? We could have racial equality in a fascist state? Where's the victory in that?

[GreenArrow]

77. unfortunately,

I see Edwards as a supporter, witting or not, of the burgeoning fascism. He's on the kinder, gentler end of it, but he's going along with it.

There is really only one issue at stake in the upcoming election: will the iron fist be naked, or will it wear a velvet glove.

[AP]

81. How in the world can you support that argument?

Please explain the logic.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

84. He thinks that the Marijuana raids on cancer patients is A-OK, gets an "F"

on drug policy from the granite staters.

http://www.granitestaters.com/guide/edwards.html

F John Edwards

….. Responding to a question at his August 24 town hall meeting in Keene Central Square Park about his whether, as president, he would stop Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) raids on seriously ill medical marijuana patients, Sen. Edwards reiterated his position that he would not end the raids. When five GSMM members attempted to enter the park with signs protesting Edwards' position favoring the raids, several campaign staff members stopped them, telling the protesters they could not bring signs into the public park. Edwards' campaign workers held signs in front of picketers once they entered, attempting to block view of the picketers' signs from voters and journalists in the park.

-snip-

Responding to questions from Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana on July 7, 2003 on C-SPAN, Edwards stated his intention to set up a commission to study the therapeutic benefits of medical marijuana. When asked if he would jail seriously ill patients while his commission studies medical marijuana, Edwards responded "what'd you just say, there are raids?" However, when asked a week later on July 15, 2003 whether he would continue the current policy of jailing sick patients, he responded "the government has a responsibility to enforce the laws," echoing a comment he made six weeks earlier.

-snip-

In a February 2003 letter to a constituent, he stated, "I cannot endorse the medical use of marijuana while a significant number of medical professionals continue to oppose this practice." However, he did promise, "I will continue to follow this issue closely, and I will actively consider the views of opponents and proponents of medical marijuana use." (Download the letter here.)

What Edwards' statements mean: His campaign's actions raise serious doubts about how an Edwards administration would treat civil liberties. Edwards has also consistently downplayed his own stance, or exaggerated others' messages in attempts to mitigate the heartlessness of his medical marijuana position.

*All current members of the House and Senate running for president have voted for District of Columbia appropriations bills that included anti-medical marijuana provisions, but there was never a separate vote on any such amendment.

[AP]

86. He and Ku got the two highest grades by the medical marijuana people last

week.

[GreenArrow]

63. I keep hearing this

and maybe there is something to it. But it is still one of the things that troubles me about John Edwards. If he's really so liberal, isn't it dishonest for him to take positions that aren't really in keeping with his own heartfelt beliefs? Why not continue working as a lawyer, defending liberal causes, an area in which he could affect as many or more changes than he would be able to as a Senator?

That sense of duality, of two-facedness, is what really kills Edwards for me. I just don't know where he stands; maybe he is more liberal than he lets on, and takes conservative and moderate positions to secure votes, or maybe he is as conservative as he seems. Maybe he is more conservative than he seems and just throws out the occasional bone to liberal minded voters in order to play both ends against the middle? Maybe that's what makes for a successful politician? I just wish I could be certain that he holds his positions out of principle rather than expediency.

Whatever the case, he has taken way too many conservative positions for my taste.

[AP]

68. Why stop being a lawyer?

Because he has all these tremendous skills, convictions, and biography which allows him to help more Americans than one client at a time.

If I had to guess, I'd say that when his son died, he realized how short life can be, so he decided that he had to get busy real fast, and this is what he's doing.

Bill Clinton said that the fact that his father died before he was born made him feel the same way -- that life was short and if you really wanted to help people you had to work hard and reach for the skies.

I don't know what Edwards is such a mystery to people.

You know, his wife is very liberal and was friends with Howard Dean's brother in college. They were in all the same Democratic organizations together. You just have to listen to these people talk. She said that Edwards decided to run for the senate because they had to "take out" Faircloth. Do you remember how awful he was?

Why would Edwards BE conservative, anyway? He has nothing to gain. He takes no PAC money. A NC bank lobbyists said in the paper recently that Edwards never returns their calls. What's the big mystery? They guy feels like he got where he is because he grew up in an America whith an expanding middle class (where wealth spread down and out, not up) and because of a committment to the public infrastructure (including public education). He wants all Americans to have the same opportunity.

He has finger precisely on the problem with America today -- creeping corporatocray/fascism, fasciliated by an unfair tax code and the devaluation of labor.

There's really nothing more liberal than that today.

You know, FDR wasn't that great on race (although his wife was). Saying that Edwards isn't a liberal because he doesn't meet a single issue litmus test (or because he just smells funny) is sort of like saying FDR wasn't liberal because he wasn't great on race. FDR was exactly what America needed and he put up a defense against fascism and the corporatocracy that lasted 40 years (and created a lot of wealth for a lot of people) and which the Republicans are having a hard time tearing down.

Edwards is so clearly the FDR for today, and hopefully Americans will realize it now so that we don't have to go through a Great Depression first.

[flpoljunkie]

76. "Edwards is so clearly the FDR for today..." Would FDR vote as Edwards?

--voting for the egregious bankruptcy bills in 2001, giveaways to the banks and credit card companies, voting against increasing the renewable energy standards, voting to weaken the Safe Water Drinking Act, voting to continue factory farming (i.e. hog farms) and voting to limit the liability of the nuclear industry.

His lifetime rating from PIRG is 74%, versus John Kerry's 94%. PIRG rates Congress on environmental, consumer, and good government issues.

These do not seem like positions FDR would have taken. Edwards votes do not match his populist rhetoric of today. Absent an epiphany on his part, his populist campaign seems a bit hypocritical.

[AP]

78. Pssst. The bankruptcy bill didn't pass thanks to poison pills Edwards

helped get into it. Bush loves MBNA. Ask yourself why the Republicans, controlling three branches of gov't, haven't given them what they want?

Look to Edwards for your answer.

Pssst. Environmental policy is at odds with jobs. It's a single issue that hides a bigger issue. Edwards's environmental record won't look so good because he goes much farther than other candidates to make sure that people who work for a living have good jobs.

Edwards has voted against Bush more than anyone running. If you look at the big picture (and not the single issues) he's probably the most liberal guy running, and, amazingly, he's from NC!

[AP]

80. Gore had a great environmental record and was not only terrible on class

issues for Dem, he was loved by Wall St.


So, don't look to single issue litmust tests to tell you who's the most liberal candidate.

[flpoljunkie]

83. There was no poison pill in it the first time he voted for it in March.

.

[AP]

85. The bill wasn't what MBNA wanted and it isn't law today. How'd they do

that with the Republicans in control of everything?

[flpoljunkie]

87. I would wager that John Edwards is now taking Kerry's position that you

do not have to choose between the environment and jobs.

[AP]

91. That doesn't change the fact that the league of converavation voters can

love you, and Wall St can love you, and you could be bad for middle class jobs.

That's the problem with single issue litmus tests. They don't tell the whole story.

Evidence: Gore.

[GreenArrow]

33. you're right

Edwards is more conservative than Kerry...maybe that's why Dean prefers him?

[AP]

36. Kucinich likes Edwards too. Maybe they all know something the avg.

DU'er doesn't.

[Cheswick2.0]

46. nah

with Dean it is more likely he is looking at full of s**t/not full of s**t more than conservative/liberal. Dean himself is a mix of Liberal/moderate and conservative.

[Sean Reynolds]

34. Its because Dean found out Kerry was behind the bin Laden ad.

[joshcryer]

35. Agreed...

[AP]

37. He explained why he did. Why don't people want to accept his word?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sean Reynolds]

43. If it were a lie, Kerry would come out an denounce it.

Has he?

[flpoljunkie]

53. The link is not only not "unassailable", it is baseless and reflects badly

not on John Kerry, but on Howard Dean. It is a desperate move by a desperate candidate, and will not help Dean's dying candidacy.

[helleborient]

54. The embrace of Torricelli as a fundraiser is absolutely true...

Regardless of anything about the Osama ad.

John Kerry seems to be looking the other way at Torricelli's ethics abuses as long as he gets his hand on money, and any other shady politics Torricelli can help out with.

[Cheswick2.0]

48. the evidence is the connection between Torch and Kerry

it sticks.

[Duder]

26. Less baggage with Edwards

Kerry's the weakest link, imo.

Doc's right.

[DU GrovelBot]

31. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

RUN C:\GROVELBOT.EXE
 
This week is our first quarter 2004 fund drive.
Please take a moment to donate to DU. Thank you
for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[Padraig18]

32. So do I.

John Kerry is DEAD LAST among my Democratic choices for POTUS-- dead last!

[pacifictiger]

57. Kerry

has less than 50% of the dem vote so far which indicates the majority would vote for him if there were noone else. I don't know why Dean has become in the voice of the media more left than Kerry. Thats always been absolute nonsense, unless you use only the domestic partnership issue as your guide. I would agree that Edwards appears to be way closer to Dean on issues than Kerry. Interesting that Kerry was also the only one very early on in the debates complaining a lot that with so many in the field he didn't have enough time to say what he wanted to say.

[TheDonkey]

45. Dean is whoring himself for attention.

It is sick and pitiful.

After this stunt I am disgusted with Dean. I'm sure he's cemented his future career in the next administration as -zilch-.
I can't wait for him to drop out now. At least Edwards has more sense and civility then Dean ever could have.

[Sean Reynolds]

49. Good to see Dean expressing his opinion is whoring?

Can you say Kerry did the same thing with his Vietnam record?

[Cheswick2.0]

50. No, the whore in this race isn't Dean

:hi:

[SangamonTaylor]

58. who's the whore? where's a whore? besides the one in the WH...n/t

[adamrsilva]

60. Edwards/Dean?

.

[Rooktoven]

74. Man, I would love to see Edwards/Dean

It's casting a broad net....

[mlawson]

93. I'm afraid the DNC has other plans.

And has had them now, for many months. Electability has never been their top criterion, anyway. They *might* allow Edwards to run for VP, but they will NEVER allow Dean on the ticket.

Damn them.

[Killarney]

61. I agree about Edwards

I do tend to think he has the best chance in the general election.

However, I also understand the obvious motive for Dean saying this.
;)

[ShaneGR]

64. I will comment on Gov. Dean's comment

I agree

[HFishbine]

67. WHAT A GROSS MISREPRESENTATION OF THE FACTS

Saying, "My fear is that he actually won't be the strongest Democratic candidate," is a far cry from saying he prefers Edwards.

[mohc]

71. From the article above

"Dean told CBS News in an interview that will air Wednesday night that he believes Edwards would be the better candidate in the general election, even though Kerry has the advantage right now."

I suppose we can watch the interview tonight and see the exact words.

[Mass_Liberal]

72. true

n/t

[AP]

73. I guess we'll have to watch the interview to see if it lives up to

the billing: "Dean told CBS News in an interview that will air Wednesday night that he believes Edwards would be the better candidate in the general election, even though Kerry has the advantage right now."

Certainly that single quote wasn't the only thing he said. Furthermore, saying that Kerry would be the lesser of two evils isn't a very flattering assessment of that campaign.

[MAlibdem]

79. He ruled out being on the ticket with Kerry but not being on the ticket

with someone else. Seems Dr. Dean is playing politics, ad nauseum.

[Cheswick2.0]

82. What Dean said was

That he would advise Kerry to chose someone else because two new englanders on the ticket was not a good strategy to beat bush. Once again Dean makes sense!

[MAlibdem]

89. semantic fallicy (n/t)

[kiahzero]

92. "Guy in second Says He Favors Guy in third Over Guy in first"

... in other news, the sky is blue.

[spooky3]

94. technically, unless you are counting

superdelegates, I believe Edwards is now in second place.

[Freddie Stubbs]

95. Superdelegates certainly count

But if current trends continue, Edwards will pass Dean soon in the delegate count.

[spooky3]

96. if I understand correctly, superdelegates

are uncommitted.

[seaglass]

97. You're right and last I checked Dean had 70 more

uncommitted delegates than Edwards which puts Edwards technically in 2nd place.