Is Wisconsin the right place for the "Osama" ad?

[genius]

It is on target. Dean doesn't have a chance against Bush. But I'm not sure that the people of Wisconsin want to hear that. Kerry would be better there with an ad constrasting Kerry's liberal positions with Dean's conservative ones. An ad like the military/foreign policy one I just heard over the Internet (the picture wasn't working) would work better in a place with lots of military bases.

I expect Kucinich to do really well in Wisconsin because of the issues and, who knows, Kucinich might beat out Dean there.

[MoonAndSun]

1. You're kidding right, use the Osama ads!!!

:wtf:

[Constitution]

13. He or she isn't suggesting using them but not using them in Wisconsin.

Genius points out that these ads would not help Kerry there. There may be some confusion about what the ads are and for where they are intended. I don't know much about them but I also heard they focussed on Dean's lack of experience.

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. Whoever uses that scummy ad should be driven out of the party!

That ad is pure SLIME! :grr:

[MsUnderstood]

7. What Ad?

Do you have a link to view or a transcript? Who is the AD FOR?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. transcript:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/16/politics/main588924.shtml

[PROGRESSIVE1]

3. Finnally, someone who understands why Kerry is a STRONG....

candidate!

[Professor Hoodoo]

9. Oops. Never mind..

n/t

[Malikshah]

4. Proof positive

of the problem with this board.

Enjoy 4 more years + with this attitude.

[ShimokitaJer]

5. I think you're confused

The ads in question ran back in Iowa, but the sources of funding and ties to the Kerry campaign are only coming to light right now.

Furthermore, the condemnation of the ads as extreme and unfair was pretty universal among Dems back when they happened. It isn't a good thing that Kerry is associated with them.

[demnan]

6. Sure run them

alienate everyone. Bush needs another four years.

[Padraig18]

10. Anyone who runs that ad is SCUM!

I will NEVER vote for ANY candidate that is proven to have ties to that scum-sucking, bottom-feeding ad! :grr:

[Snivi Yllom]

27. it's the DAISY ad of 2004 so far

I imagine there will be worse ones.

It's sort of Willie Hortonish too.

[formernaderite]

33. I feel bad, I initially thought it was Gephardt...

...that Torricelli fronting for Kerry earn the credit is beyond disappointing. In fact, I later thought that possibly republicans were behind it. Am I totally shocked...no. This has been a season of diasppointments with the DNC machine once again.

[Mass_Liberal]

11. your post sickens me

you are honestly saying that you support the "osama" ad? That's fucking crazy. That ad is malevolent trash.


:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Constitution]

26. Genius pointed out it was accurate but was opposing it. Read.

You probably don't need a defender. But don't let the Dean people trick you again. They set people up and then pounce and pretend you've said something you have not said. Just ignore them. Dean's already lost.

[Constitution]

12. I haven't heard the ad but I understand it talks about Dean's inexperience

Are their two ads that are going under this name? What I've heard about his ad is not offensive but just accurate in terms of Dean's inability to win.

[HFishbine]

19. Take a look and tell us what you think

http://progressivevalues.com/images/flash/movie2.wmv

[Constitution]

14. Genius, apparently the Dean people tricked you. It wasn't a Kerry ad.

I heard similar things to what you posted. I heard that it emphasized Dean's lack of experience. You said you couldn't see it. Perhaps the visuals make it worse than the words.

[Mass_Liberal]

21. watch the ad

the dude just gave you a link!

[Lefta Dissenter]

15. All I can say is,

if you want any votes from Clark supporters, then you'd better watch your step. We're mighty sensitive around here, and we don't look very highly on negative, slimy campaigning. We're just coming away from a campaign that was run completely on the high road, and we're not about to resort to rolling in the gutter with anyone!

(and by 'you,' I mean the general campaigning populace, not the original poster)

[ewagner]

20. Nerves around here are a bit frayed

It wouldn't take much (sleeze) for me to campaign against the sleezor.

[Spirochete]

16. You want to run the Osama ad?

Boy, were you ever misnamed!

[Constitution]

24. You can't read. Genius never said he/she wanted to run it.

Genius was suggesting it not be run.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShimokitaJer]

28. The ad was run by "Americans for Jobs, Healthcare and Progressive Values"

an organization apparently organized for the sole purpose of running it and two other anti-Dean ads in Iowa. The deadline for revealing the organization's sources of funding just passed and, despite considerable foot dragging on the part of the sole remaining member of the organization, they were made public.

Among the donors are several unions with ties to Gephardt, but also conspicuous was Bob Torricelli, who has conducted fundraising for Kerry despite the fact that he has been censured by the Senate for shady donor relations in the past and Kerry's claim that he shuns such fundraising techniques. The FEC has called the legality of Torricelli's contribution to this organization "fuzzy."

Here's a hint for all you Kerry supporters out there. The right way to get past this is for Kerry to denounce Torricelli and separate himself from Torricelli's fundraising. You will NOT gain voters to your side by any of the following techniques:

1) denying involvement -- Torricelli's involvement and Kerry's ties to Torricelli are now matters of public record. The only way to deny involvement is for Kerry to denounce Torricelli, which he has thus far failed to do

2) claims that the ads "weren't that bad" -- the reaction to the ads has already been seen. They were compared to the tactics used by the Republicans against Max Cleland in 2002 (tactics that were denounced by Kerry) and it was the general consensus that these went beyond simply "going negative" and entered the realm of openly offensive dirty politics. Changing your minds about it now that Kerry's involvement has been shown will reinforce the image of Kerry as a slimy and opportunistic campaigner.

3) assuming the problem will go away -- good luck with that. Kerry's main appeal has been his perceived strengths against Bush. Involvement in shady backdoor attack ads cuts directly to the type of deceptions for which people have come to despise Bush. Kerry has pretended to have a clean campaign, and this will shatter that myth.

Suggestions that the ads be used again are not only inappropriate, but show a fundamental lack of understanding of the reaction to these ads. I can only assume the suggestion was made in ignorance by the original poster, but to see it repeated by other Kerry supporters is disgusting.

Take my advice and pull the band-aid off now.

[Snivi Yllom]

30. well its safe to say it's not from the Dean HQ

Any guesses on who this ad was designed to benefit?

[quinnox]

18. It's not necessary - Kerry will win handily

Thre is no reason to go negative on Dean anymore, he is a non-entity at this point. As far as Kerry campaign goes, Dean no longer exists.

And if Dean continues to be a sore loser, watch his poll numbers slide even further until it is a struggle for him to even beat Sharpton in primaries. I feel sorry for Dean, he is destroying any political career he might have had. Time for Dean to withdraw gracefully, like General Clark or if not then to stop acting like a spoiled child who didn't get his toy.

[HFishbine]

22. Yes run it!

It would be a big help to Dean.

[Constitution]

23. Genius, I just read an article. The visuals you didn't see made it bad.

It apparently showed Osama's eyes as it was talking about Dean's lack of experience. It would have been better if it had shown a mountain full of skiers.

[dolo amber]

25. Well.

That's the dumbest ad I've ever seen.

Is it just me, or did El Shrubbo have "no foreign policy experience" prior to being installed as our fearless leader? And what kind of horseshit *progressive* organization is paying for a fear-mongering "WE LIVE IN A DANGEROUS WORLD" (cue dramatic music) ad anydamnway?

Christ, this entire political process just makes me sicker and sicker. My 13 yr old and her melodramatic teen aged friends are more mature than the people who are running this country. :eyes:

[Snivi Yllom]

29. The RNC HQ is the right place for this ad

This is trashy and fear mongering at its worse and is beneath us.

[DU GrovelBot]

31. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

RUN C:\GROVELBOT.EXE
 
This week is our first quarter 2004 fund drive.
Please take a moment to donate to DU. Thank you
for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[corporatewhore]

32. Hey iam a DK fan myself but the ad was worthy of Karl for awhile i thought

he was behind it then i thought it was geppy but it turns out to be kerry

[Cheswick2.0]

34. I hope Kerry does run his Osama/Dean add

Classic Kerry