Lovely.. just lovely.. Kerry pulls YET another fast one..

[Professor Hoodoo]

You know, I've said I wouldn't do much for Kerry in the General, but now it's official.

I just heard about the latest slimy maneuver, this time here in DC. Tonight was the Gertrude Stein Democratic Club Dinner. The group voted for their endorsement in the DC Caucus for this Saturday. While, yes, Dean supporters were the greatest collection (followed by Kusinich, as I understand), there was no clear majority, so the Club made no endorsement for the Caucus.

Note, no one got it, so there was no one getting any gain out of this.

Then, after the dinner was over, the big whopping 20 Kerry supporters snuck back in after everyone left. Then a crony on the Board used an obscure by-law to reconviene and they voted the endorsement to Kerry.

Yep, a tiny minority stole another vote (Florida anyone?). One that wasn't even going to any competitor, and thus hurting them. As a result, the GS is now in a shambles of internal recimination (I guess the Kerry people didn't get that memo about "ABB" and "We're all in this together"...as I expected, that's only to bludgeon Dean/Clark people with.). So much for party building.

We won the DC Primary fair and square. We would have won even if the others hadn't cut out on Terry Mac's orders. We did while doing crazy things like putting back up opponenets signs that fell down the lamp posts.

Meanwhile sleazy Kerry steals votes in backroom tricks. I'm sorry, but character counts, and anyone who condones this stuff has all the character of Dorian Grey's painting. And this isn't a "rumor", it happened hours ago. No one can claim it's just Rove stirring things up.

I am officially done. Good job, John! I wasn't going to make any more donations to DFA until I saw what happened. Instead, I just kicked off a chunk of change...money that won't be available for any Dem Congressional candiadtes. I will only be making donations to DFA, or any 527 that comes out of it. So everyone thank Johnny Boy for cutting off that stream of revenue.

Congrats on driving away someone who took the initiative to surround the White House with campaign signs. Maybe one of those trust fund kiddies on your paid staff can come up with ideas like that for you.

All you enablers may now feel free to pull out all the "disloyal", "politics ain't beanbag", and other rationalizations you like. It just is a testament to the content of your characters, not an indictment of anything else.

Enjoy.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/2/10/43630/8746


:eyes:

[helleborient]

1. More nastiness...yep, Kerry is good at the bloodsport...

I'll continue to work against him pulling our party into the cesspool of Republican-style politics.

[KoKo]

4. This was posted before and locked because it's "heresay" and not

verifiable.

[drfemoe]

26. It IS verifiable ..

It will take some legwork, but it can be confirmed or proven false.

http://www.steindemocrats.org/

Agenda (2/9/04)

For its monthly meeting the Gertrude Stein Democratic Club will hear from Candidates for Delegates to the Democratic National Convention. All interested parties who have filed their Declaration of Candidacy with the D.C. Democratic State Committee by Friday, February 6th, and meet all requirements for Delegate will be allowed to speak for 2 minutes. Candidates should address their remarks on how they would serve the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered citizens of D.C. as a representative to the Convention held in Boston the week of July 26-29, 04. The National Stonewall Democrats will hold its convention preceding July 23-25th, Providence, RI

The Stein Club that evening will also hold an Endorsement Election for Democratic Presidential Candidate. All Presidential Candidates will be on the Ballot. A representative from each Candidates Campaign will be allowed to speak for 2 minutes. The representative must be named in writing and submitted to [e-mail] no later than Friday, February 6th. All members of the Gertrude Stein Democratic Club in good standing will be allowed to vote. Only 1 Candidate who shall receive 60% of votes cast will be endorsed.

....
Someone can contact them to verify. It is verifiable.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. Tehn why not send it to a news organization and request that they do so

[Cheswick2.0]

27. eye witness isn't verifiable?

?

[KoKo]

30. Hey, don't get mad at me! It was posted before and locked, I only told

you what the mods said. I think it was yesterday when it was posted.

The story is true for all I know, just passing along the info to the poster. :shrug:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. I'm supposed to believe this????

:mad:

B.S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is there so much Kerry bashing here at DU???

[Padraig18]

6. Maybe because it's TRUE?

Ya think, maybe? :eyes:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

10. Lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Kerry did not do this. Was JK in DC when this occured???
Was he in the room??? Is there any proof that HE was behind it???

:puke:

[Padraig18]

14. Oh horseshit!

When has the fact that Howard Dean wasn't personally involved ever mattered when it was time to stir shit about some penny-ante pice of nit-picking bullshit? Never, that's when!

'A man is known by the company he keeps', Senator.

[helleborient]

15. Has he disavowed support for this tactic?

We're waiting....

[RichV]

42. Why would he even be aware of this?

I doubt he has finger on the pulse of this one little organization. It's not you're talking about the AFL-CIO here.

[Ficus]

11. he is winning

or so it seems at the moment.

[shance]

25. looks more like cheating to me

sorry.

Look I want as many good candidates as we can have.

I dont enjoy being a one trick pony but right now thats the way it is because Kerry continues to disappoint and deceive.

[RichV]

3. Um.. what does Kerry have to do with this?

I don't see how he was involved.

[meegbear]

20. THANK YOU!!!

Jeez Louise.

[MoonAndSun]

5. All I can do is shake my head,

why do the Kerry voters feel they have to do this type of thing??

[MaineDem]

7. Don't believe everything you read

:eyes:

[Mass_Liberal]

8. that infuriates me

Jesus Christ that's foul!!

[TheDonkey]

9. So Kerry was the one who snuck in there... yea didn't think so.

:wtf:

[clarknyc]

12. If this account is true

Kerry should denounce this action done in his campaign's name.

[RedSox02]

13. Doesn't Kerry have to be there to "pull it off"?

I am sick of this. I never bashed Dean, I never really bashed anybody. Except maybe Sharpton because he has a Republican running his campaign. I have defended Dean in debates even though he was not the guy I was supporting. Yet time and time again I have to read posts bashing one candidate or the other.

[redqueen]

16. How long before they're disavowed by Kerry?

He needs to get on the ball, if he doesn't disavow these tactics and this 'endorsement' then that really does reflect directly on him.

[Maddy McCall]

17. Folks, this is "my cousin's best friend's wife's sister's beautician said"

hearsay. Don't believe it. Blogs are NOT reputable sources.

[Ficus]

18. were they all skull and bonesmen too?

[RedSox02]

23. LOL! That cracked me up!

Good one! Skull & Bones references crack me up.

[oasis]

19. Where in the link does it say that KERRY is, in any way, involved?

[Casablanca]

21. Well said. The Kerry campaign is about politics-as-usual ...

Not raising the game.

[Robb]

22. Every campaign is going to have a few people like this

...I'm afraid, willing to do whatever it takes beyond any semblance of character to "help" their candidate. I have no doubt they thought they were being very clever.

I don't think we should condemn Kerry because of a few of his supporters. I think it should be a call to all campaigns to keep it clean.

[ConcernedCanuk]

24. Hmmm - makes a difference if you read the responses

.
.

From the same link:

Read the post from ... by DCFD Rudi on Tue Feb 10th, 2004 at 15:19:12 GMT < Parent > .....

A few quotes:

As a person who was at the Stein meeting... (4.00 / 3)

...I feel compelled to state my case.

Full disclosure: I'm a Dean supporter and not a member of the Stein Democrats.

/snip/

Then the vote: 61 votes were cast, with 29 going to Kerry, 20 to Dean, 6 to Clark, 3 to Edwards, 2 to Kucinich, and 1 to Sharpton. Kerry failed to win the require 60 percent for endorsement, all was going as expected....

....until somebody cited a club by-law that stated that a second ballot be cast if no candidate in a single-candidate outcome race achieved a plurality, then a second ballot may be cast by motion.

/snip/

Eventually, a second vote was cast, with Kerry winning endorsement by a single vote. So the first GLBT endorsement for Kerry came from the DC Stein.

The Dean folk, the Clark people and a couple of Stein exec board members tried to put off the vote, either by calling the meeting to recess or adjourning for the night. But the Kerry folk stood firm. They did not, as John mentioned "sneak back in," as the meeting had not officially ended.

more

so, - it's just another taking things out of context again :shrug:

ain't politics grand ??

[oasis]

28. "the meeting had not officially ended."????? oooooookay.

[seaglass]

29. Unfortunately when you refute a thread like this, it dies.

Those who use tactics of half-truths don't usually stick around, it doesn't serve their purpose.

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[helleborient]

33. What really happened...from someone who was there...

This is one of the responses on DailyKos and has ring of truth...not real flattering for anyone involved, I would say...


As a person who was at the Stein meeting...

...I feel compelled to state my case.
Full disclosure: I'm a Dean supporter and not a member of the Stein Democrats.

The meeting had great turnout - more than triple the average Stein meeting - and people wre passionate. We sensed decent, if not overwhelming, support for Dean as we handed out stickers and literature on the way in. The club had a 60 percent threshold for endorsement, so we figured that the most likely outcome would be a "no endorse" result.

The candidate representatives spoke for their allotted two minutes, the Dean rep giving a passionate treatise on "electability." The Kerry rep (the candidate's official GLBT coordinator) spoke for about four minutes without any warning or censure for running over time (all other reps were told "time" - perhaps it was just an oversight), and cited Kerry's long record of supporting (note: not sponsoring) GLBT-friendly legislation. The Edwards and Clark reps gave great, even-keeled speechs about their candidates, and Kucinich's representative was received warmly. Sharpton's rep was a no-show.

Then the club members started speaking. The Dean folk reiterated the "electability" issue and the fact that Dean has shaped the party platform (the "scream vs. echo" idiom). The Kerry people went with the "he's already won" and "he's the only one who is truly electable" themes. There were a few who supported others, but they were few, most calling for unity behind whomever wins the Dem nomination.

Then the defections began. Some folks who were solid Dean supporters said that, while their hearts were with Dean, their heads were with Kerry, and that they'd be casting their Stein club vote with Kerry. It was a tangible blow to the Dean folk in attendance (both club members and non-club observers), but a dose of the new reality.

Then the vote: 61 votes were cast, with 29 going to Kerry, 20 to Dean, 6 to Clark, 3 to Edwards, 2 to Kucinich, and 1 to Sharpton. Kerry failed to win the require 60 percent for endorsement, all was going as expected....

....until somebody cited a club by-law that stated that a second ballot be cast if no candidate in a single-candidate outcome race achieved a plurality, then a second ballot may be cast by motion. The debate started: people wanting to adjourn and go with a non-endorsement, people wanting to recess and pick up next week, people wanting the second vote now. Frustrated people left, many of them Dean supporters. The Kerry crowd stayed put, moving with passion for a second ballot. Some people brought up the fact that this by-law was not pointed out before the meeting; other club members pointed out that, as members, they should be familiar with the by-laws.

As a long-time Stein member said to me, "organizationally speaking, it was somewhat messy."

And that is an extreme understatement.

The president of the Stein tried to keep things in check, but he was lost. The big issue was that, while the group seemed to be modeled around Robert's Rules of Order, the president and his cabinet were not familiar with all of the aspects of said rules. Those who were more familiar fell in either of two camps: they tried to get the meeting to adhere to the rules, or they took advantage of the confusion to warp and twist the rules.

(Note/editorial: any group worth its salt that intends to follow Robert's Rules should have a copy on-hand at all times to resolve such disputes.)

Additionally, newer members felt a bit intimidated by the veteran members. Many of the veteran Stein Dems are passionate and loud people, whereas the newbies seemed less intent on rocking the boat. So when the rules became an issue, it turned into a "motion-amendment-motion-second-point of order-motion-second-point of order" melee. It got ugly and dragged on for over an hour.

Eventually, a second vote was cast, with Kerry winning endorsement by a single vote. So the first GLBT endorsement for Kerry came from the DC Stein.

The Dean folk, the Clark people and a couple of Stein exec board members tried to put off the vote, either by calling the meeting to recess or adjourning for the night. But the Kerry folk stood firm. They did not, as John mentioned "sneak back in," as the meeting had not officially ended. Some of the Dean-supporting Stein members did leave after the endorsement results were announced and the meeting began to disintegrate - probably more out of frustration that the meeting was already overly long.

At any rate, it wasn't an ideal outcome, it made somewhat of a mockery of a club that wants to be seen as legitimate, and if anything, the "victory" for Kerry is hollow, at best.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. So they followed their rules and you call that 'illegitimate'?

:wtf:

[helleborient]

35. That's what the person from daily Kos said, who was there, not me...

I said it didn't seem to reflect well on anyone.

[cindyw]

39. So the point is that Kerry people stood their round while the Dean people

backed off. I think this reflects well on how Kerry supporters will fight in the GE.

I for one will not back off beating Bush until there is no hope left. Even if it means supporting Dean or Edwards. I may have a preference, but my goal is clear. I can only hope these people will fight this hard against Bush.

[NashVegas]

43. So, Really, They Weren't Cheating

They were just manipulative, loophole-exploiting assholes.

I'm glad that's been cleared up.

[bowens43]

36. So you're saying Kerry was there and that he

orchestrated this? I don't believe it for a minute. Show some proof that Kerry was involved or apologize. Desperation is an ugly thing.

[drfemoe]

37. All it shows is that the

Dean/Kerry divide is more pervasive than just at DU.

[oasis]

40. I believe the primary results are a better indication of the "divide".

[Kahuna]

38. When Kerry nails the nomination these types of

threads will be forbidden on DU. Guess they have to get it out of their systems. :shrug:

[Iverson]

41. Gertrude Stein dinner, eh?

"Let me recite what history teaches. History teaches."

http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/ifitoldnew.html

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. What evidence do you have the Kerry himself had anything to do with this?

Or anyone with an official capacity on his campaign?

[brentspeak]

45. The "Kerry is the antiChrist" rhetoric is getting out of hand

I have no way myself of verifying whether this story is true or not. And there's some things about Kerry that bother me (mostly his allowing Bob Torricelli to raise funds for him). But this is getting to the point where some out there are willingly doing the GOP's dirty work and slagging Kerry with just the barest of rumors. The time is coming when we will all have to close ranks, or else watch our country be irretrievably lost under Bush/Oil Can Cheney.

Karl Rove must be hugging himself silly over all this.

Brentspeak

[Exgeneral]

46. This jives pretty well with the precinct numbers scam in WA and ME

That's why you don't see after all this time "100% of precincts reporting"

Dem party workers in both states were observed altering results to favor JK ad give him more delegates per on ground workers for the Dean campaign..

Recounts were underway, but seem to have dropped off the radar.

"Kerry Romps" indeed.

[TreasonousBastard]

47. Speaking of fast ones...

reading the entire thread at Kos, one comes up with an entirely different impression.

As some have posted in this thread, this is not exactly what happened, and it is an account by someone who was not there. And by someone known to the Kos denizens as one who is not particularly partial to Kerry. Seems to really dislike him, in fact.

What appears to have happened, if the account of someone who was actually there is to be believed, is fairly typical of town meetings, club meetings, PTA meetings, and meetings of every sort that I have ever seen where things are getting hot and emotional.

[Monte Carlo]

48. So what is the big deal?

Character? I'd say it's about strategy. Washington can be a brutal place, and pointing that fact out to everyone you meet isn't going to change it. Sometimes running for President means getting down and dirty, meaning powerbrokering.

The Democratic Party in this country is feeling a strong desire for unity in the election, and among all the candidates still in the run, Kerry has won all but one state. Media or no media, people maybe, just maybe, have their own reasons for voting for him.

[Moderator]

49. Locking......

1. If you start a thread in this forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether a thread topic is inflammatory. Extremely inflammatory or inappropriate topics will be deleted rather than locked, and the thread's author will receive a warning.

2. Criticism of Democratic primary candidates, their policy positions, and their campaigns is permitted. However, extreme and inflammatory attacks against Democratic primary candidates are not permitted. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether an attack is extreme and inflammatory. Inappropriate attacks include, but are not limited to, the following: Attacks involving swear words, long strings of negative words, comparisons to Hitler or Bush, unflattering graphics, etc.


DU Moderator