Chris Matthews nailed it on exactly what Americans want in our next president...

[jenmito]

And by this exchange yesterday on Hardball, it looks like America wants Wesley Clark!:

MATTHEWS: I’ll tell you, there is a hunger for somebody to come in this race. I feel it. The people aren’t happy with the list they’re looking at.

O’BEIRNE: I think John Edwards and Barack Obama are pretty much...

MATTHEWS: Well, Rudy’s going up so high. People want him to be a hero.

O’BEIRNE: Now, that...

MATTHEWS: They want a man to be a hero. They’re determined to find a hero. This country desperately needs a hero to be our next president. We don’t want a middle-ground mediocrity. We want the next president to be sharp, smart and courageous. We want a great person, male or female, to be the next president. And They’re still looking over those lists.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17404847/

RUN, WES! WE'RE LOOKING FOR YOU!

[SharonRB]

1. Gore/Clark!

[Donnachaidh]

3. GMTA!!!

:bounce:

[demosincebirth]

7. Thats the winning combo.

[ourbluenation]

45. That's the ticket.

[Donnachaidh]

2. GORE/CLARK

I'd vote for them! :bounce:

[FrenchieCat]

4. Naw....CM wants Guiliani....cause CM has no idea as to what a hero

looks like, and what true heroes do.

CM only knows about make believe heros that are pumped up by the media.

[jenmito]

8. I don't think CM wants Clark...

But he described Wes Clark to a "T" without realizing it.

[AX10]

21. Those "heros" are always Repugs of course.

[jenmito]

23. I agree that Matthews believes that...

I was talking about what he unwittingly did was describe Clark, though.

[A Simple Game]

25. Chris Matthews may not know what a hero looks like, but

he knows what Rudy looks like in a dress and curly blond wig.

No more flight suits with a fake package, Chris likes what he sees Rudy in.

[Colobo]

5. The best candidate, in my view, is already running

The man that will energize and lead over a generation: Barack Obama!

[jenmito]

9. I'd vote for him in a second...

if Clark didn't get in the race. But Clark is the one with the most experience in the field most needed at this time. I'd LOVE to see Clark/Obama. I've said that before. :hi:

[Bitwit1234]

6. Damn how did he read my mind.

I have said to my son over and over. The same thing. Hillary, Edwards, Obama and the rest of the democratic field are ok. But we need someone to come forward that will knock the socks off everybody.

I know most of you were too young to remember the Kennedy boys. BUT THAT'S WHAT WE NEED a JFK or an RFK.

[PATRICK]

18. And the Kennedys

were still squeakers when it came to vote tallies against the establishment. Maybe something is not right about that charisma assessment. It took ruthless and energetic politicking to overcome--- Dick Nixon????

You pick a charismatic presence such as edwards and Obama already are and Guiliani who is a joke and the press will go sour on the whole thing except for Guiliani. There are no godlike legends of charismatic heroism out there. Tweety is having more fascist daydreams apparently. Some sort of GOP Kerry cloned with Arnold but with the brain of a Reagan and the aristocratic credentials of a Bush and on and on and yeeechhh.

Better yet what does America want in a TV journalist? Olberman.

[fuzzyball]

48. You could'nt be more wrong...JFK was the best president...EVER!!

You are most likely too young to remember the JFK era.
You are right though in that in 1960 JFK won by a squeaker.
Some even say that Mayor Daley's machine massaged enough votes
for JFK to squeak by in Illinois. But that was because JFK was
a relative unknown to the country.

Once JFK bcame president, he charmed the pants off the country.
So much so that his reign was called Camelot!
Every one came to love JFK after they were exposed to him. His news
conferences are the best I have ever witnessed since. He was witty
as heck and quick on his feet. He looked "presidential". His young
family was also a big boost. When he was assasinated, the whole
country mourned his untimely death for weeks. I was barely out of my
teens but I still remember exactly where I was when I heard the news.

Without a doubt JFK would have been re-elected in a landslide in his 2nd
term.

Bobby was also on the way to be elected by a wide margin until the
Jordanian Arab shot him. Bobby was the main reason LBJ stepped aside.

[PATRICK]

52. I was very much around then.

And what I have learned since speaks not a bit against the Kennedys as great leaders and public servants. What you say is part of the way the MSM rules politics- even in less extreme times. Keeping a candidate unknown. Tagging him constantly as inexperienced with a "Catholic" problem. Propping up the scary and powerful Nixon out of the deference to what he could do to you(and Dick didn't know why he was hated!) and making what was an unequal charade a weighted serious advantage to the "experienced" GOP continuation of power. I couldn't see a bit of that then. During his administration when legislation got bogged down, the magazines one KNEW were conservative business props, were minutely critical and ever ready to fail the presidency they otherwise could not touch because of its direct appeal to the people.

This is all before the vast right wing attempted coup against Clinton and before the corporate serious established press passed wholesale into similarly propping extremism so long as it squatted in the right places and would punish and reward to the end of framing the game. Many things of the past are tarnished or ugly or explicable in the dark absurdity of the Bush WH. The good then survives through it all while public institutions look ever more feeble, fraudulent and betrayed. Kennedy would have the benefit of the internet grass roots, but the more savage persecution by radicalized and out of bounds GOP and MSM assault. For which the Nixon McCarthy era was but prologue to an imperial farce. Nixon floated a bit too far above his usual gutter instincts with a sincere belief in his own press releases. He was not as intrinsically bad or moronically daring as our current horrors. Yet it is he that the mainstream press that hates him keeps reinvigorating with timid sympathy as if they would rehabilitate the sows ear had not their purse factory been threatened with exposure. Easier to keep slurring the people's choice than stand up for a tagged criminal failure. But they do both quietly and in "historical context" in which they take themselves and their performance to the hidden wings.

Against the intelligent dynamism of real great Democrats the not so neutral stodginess of corporate MSM values will have unjust difficulty in getting to the actual accomplishment and the actual votes. Some people dare to be amazed that Kennedy did not swamp Nixon. The fact that those are few and that discussion never flies in the MSM is every bit as revealing as the Gore 2000 victory blackout. For the simple reason that the press has betrayed the nation consistently by its nature and given the dark side of the coin the intellectual and power legitimacy it cannot deserve and should never be granted by the sane.

I resent the fact that what is and was admirable about JFK was under false, institutionally inhibiting assault back then and under cowardly personal attack now. I totally remove myself from both of these and hope we can win back truly good leaders against the machinery of despair from now on. Back then Conservatives, even the emerging Goldwater type, had a persuasive legitimacy. It's descent to drolling fascist hysteria and crisis has shown its true trajectory, a trajectory JFK nailed accurately. I hope he is equally right about the true direction of the Democrats.

[AX10]

54. This should be made into it's own thread.

[ProudDad]

57. Bobby would have been great

He, like Al Gore, had a bump put in front of his meteoric rise. He did some contemplation about what was really important and became something of a populist/socialist.

That's why THE CIA killed him under orders from the "powers that be"...

Sirhan Sirhan was the patsy...

[pscot]

10. Wes Clark

That'll work for me.

[Ninja Jordan]

11. He describes Obama to a tee.

He is Bobby incarnate.

[aquart]

13. Bobby WHO?

Please don't say Bobby Kennedy because I had no use for that man.

[Ninja Jordan]

14. Wow, just wow.

[Art_from_Ark]

27. No kidding

If Bobby Kennedy had lived and been elected President in 1968, the Vietnam War would have ended sooner and the Great Society would have been expanded, among other things. And the US would have been a much better country for it.

[ProudDad]

58. The WORLD would have been better off!

No Nixon, no ray-gun, no bush/bush

The bullet that killed Bobby was one of the two most unfortunate bullets in history right next to the one that DIDN'T KILL ray-gun...

[chaumont58]

12. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but Tweety can't nail anything

He was a POS yesterday. He is a POS today and he will be a POS tomorrow.

[jenmito]

22. He did it unintentianally...

I don't think for a SECOND that HE was thinking of Wesley Clark.

[Tellurian]

41. You got that right!

Where were Chris Matthews astute comments when Bush was debating Gore?
He kept his paid mouth shut and didn't say boo against Bush from fear of losing his job.

Now, he's telling you the candidate to pick that meets his RW paycheck!
And did anyone notice the word "man" for a hero, comment?

[elfin]

15. Thanks - Tweety is not on here at his usual time

6 PM Central - it's all tornadoes all the time. Hope Keith isn't blown away by this constant coverage - and re-coverage - and re-coverage of the same awful news.

[bigtree]

16. Matthews is always trying to tell us what we should want

He should listen more

[NDP]

17. Chris Matthews is a speculative, butt-kisser. Whatever seems popular, he backs at that time. Who

cares what he thinks?

[fooj]

19. "People WANT him to be a hero"

If only "wishing" made it so...:spray:

[jenmito]

24. Wesley Clark is a hero...

IMO. :D

[fooj]

35. Yes, he is. It takes courage to speak out against these war criminals.

[INdemo]

20. That would be Gore or Feingold?

[zulchzulu]

26. Bullshit! Tweety and others like to destroy heroes who run for President

I remember that there was one in 2004 that he went along with destroying...

The MSM are nothing but pirahnas and sharks. They put the blood in the water and the rest is history.

If you think they wouldn't love to nibble on the character assassination carcass of Wesley Clark, you have a lot to learn.

[Dinger]

28. Since He's Not Allowed To Utter The Name WES CLARK, This Was The Best He Could Do

Nobody in the field fits this description like Wes Clark, nobody.
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[jenmito]

32. I don't think he was even thinking of Wes Clark...

but he described him perfectly. :)

[venable]

29. What in the world makes this sound like he is talking about Clark?

are the initiated speaking in code now?

Maybe he was thinking of nobody in particular.

This presumption is more than a little obsessive, I have to say.


I like Clark, and I'm sure he would make a great president, but there is absolutely nothing in these words that suggests Matthews was thinking of Clark.

[jenmito]

31. I DON'T think HE thinks he's talking about Clark...

I guess you missed my point. What he described, in MY opinion, fit the description of Wes Clark. I don't think for a second he thought he was describing Clark. Relax...

[venable]

33. i was not responding to your post, but the one above it

[spooky3]

30. Children need heroes.

The rest of us want smart, competent, progressive leaders.

[anitar1]

34. Hero is so overused , it has worn out. There are no hero

politicians, imho.

[JNelson6563]

36. I think Gore is a hero

He is to me. :toast:

[Chemical Bill]

37. Fuck Tweety. n/t

[peabody71]

38. Common Gore it's almost a responsibility.

[DrDan]

39. you don't think Newt or Mitt fit this description

[Larry in KC]

40. We need to define a HERO

I posted this in another thread about this, but, hey...

1. It applies here quite well.

2. It took me quite a while to write it, so...

We’re running in circles here because we’re all reading different connotations into the word. So, why not go to the dictionary as a place to start?

Straight from Merriam-Webster:

(Definition 1.a. has to do with mythological figures)
1.b. An illustrious warrior.
1.c. A man admired for his achievements and noble qualities.
1.d. One that shows great courage.

2. a. (About literary characters)
2.b. The central figure in an event, period, or movement

3. (About the sandwich)

4. An object of extreme adoration or devotion.

So, leaving aside jokes about Hercules, sandwiches, or Moby-Dick, we’re left with five definitions that may apply. #2.b. is a little difficult, too; maybe it can only be applied in historical hindsight.

I think the real difficulty, though, is in separating definitions #1.b., c., and d. from #4, that “object of extreme adoration or devotion”. That seems to be where hero-worship as a negative comes into play. Almost every kid, and many adults, have “heroes” of this kind, often someone adored because he or she does one thing well, which may have nothing to do with nobility (they might throw a ball well, or sing with gusto, or just look unique in an appealing way). To look at them as heroes is often destructive, because many other aspects of their lives might not deserve respect at all, let alone adoration or devotion. A great many of us get jaded by this, assuming that anyone who is looked on as a hero is unworthy, and maybe the more unworthy for all the lionizing they receive.

So does that mean no one is worthy of the term? Well, we’re all human, and that term also has its connotations, mostly about how we’re flawed creatures. Watching political figures, we very often have to weigh the good and acceptable traits or actions we see in them against the not-so-good or even bad ones, to come up with a sort of average. We all talk about sometimes having to vote for the lesser of two evils. I’ve often defended politicians whom I desperately wished didn’t have this negative trait or that unseemly action in their history. I think we all have.

We’re not all equal, though, and it’s naïve to pretend we are. There really are those who are admired for their achievements and noble qualities, there really are those who show great courage, and in fact, there really are still a few illustrious warriors.


Wes Clark is my personal hero. I’ve only really had two in my adult life, Clark and Gandhi (and I think it says something that after many years, this general could join the pacifist in my “hero gallery”). Unlike any other political figure I’ve ever watched, an amazing thing happens with Clark. Almost without exception, each time I learn a new fact about him, from his fascinating biography, about the many times he’s had the courage to speak truth to power, about his views on issues past, present, and future and how he’s developed them, it’s something more to admire. By contrast, the few tiny items I would have to put on the other side of the ledger are almost laughably small. I’ve lived a long time, and I’ve become jaded, too, so I’m continually being surprised by that mere fact.

I don’t think many people can truthfully say that about the candidate they espouse, for any election. I haven’t been able to, about any other, for my whole political life. Some people really are extraordinary, though. In this case, I admire Wes Clark for his achievements and noble qualities, and for showing great courage, and even for being an illustrious warrior (although I may define that last term differently from others).

Wes Clark is my hero, then. He is A hero, and I believe they’re exceedingly rare. How wonderful it would be to have a true hero as our president.

[ProudDad]

59. Hell, Clark can even string together

an intelligable sentence in the English language.

I also recently heard him talk about Diplomacy vs. Military force. As the son of a career Naval officer who saw the aftermath of Hiroshima in '45 and decided that war sucked, I think Clark's "got it". He seems to understand that the use of military force is the last, last, last, last, last resort and an admission of utter failure.

I like him for that.

On Edit: I DO think that "hero" is a bullshit concept. The courage to say and do the right things, that I admire but hero...superficial BS.

[loyalsister]

42. What a creepy word!

It implies we are all children or adults so influenced by video games and comic books that we need a President who speaks to us daily to update us on his superpower of deciviness and direction and how he "saved the conference" or made an instant decision to hold one.

What idiocy to apply to the office of presidency! It demeans voters.

[Doctor_J]

43. Matthews is going to spend the next 18 months ramming "Rudy the hero"

down our throats. He's also the one who thinks that the draft-dodging, coke-addled drunk who lieves in the White House is a hero. Matthews is an enemy of America.

[kerstin]

44. I must agree.

Matthews' lack of either moral or intellectual depth, in combination with his unprecedented air time, make him one. (An enemy, that is -- not a hero.)

Undoubtedly who he is describing is Gore. But of course Matthews will, once again, dutifully and obsequiously peddle the pretend hero (in this case, Giuliani), facts be damned.

[AX10]

46. Chris and the other pundits will crown Rudy the next emperor.

[ARRESTBOSCHAVILANOW]

49. WE LIVE IN AN EMPIRE...see what I mean...

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=3&topic_id=55982&mesg_id=55982&page=

[CreekDog]

47. be careful about Matthews

He's like a broken clock, only not that accurate.

;)

[sandnsea]

50. America wants CHANGE

Not Rudy. Not Wes. Not one more tired politician that is going to give us more of the same, that got us here in the first place. America is ready to turn the page to the next generation. Obama.

[FrenchieCat]

51. It's better if you speak for yourself at this point,

instead of speaking for all of America.

In reference to your point about Obama, we shall see. Until then,

Just like I wish for Tweety.....we can only speak for ourselves.

[jen4clark]

63. Not this American.

Maybe by 2012 we'll know more about Obama and he'll know more about FP. For now, it's not his time. And I'll add that's in my humble opinion, as I would never presume to speak for America.

[sandnsea]

64. You don't want change?

Then I guess you're going to be voting for whatever Republican in 2008??

[mitchum]

53. That's because Matthews is a simpering damsel looking for a "savior"

[Geek_Girl]

55. BS! He's just pushing Rudy

If that fascist wins, we are totally screwed as a country.

[jenmito]

61. I AGREE WITH YOU...

I meant he unwittingly described Wesley Clark.

[dkofos]

56. What a crock of shit

[Forkboy]

60. If you're looking to him for anything then you're in big trouble

Just sayin'.

[The Gunslinger]

62. I still am thinking Jeb will jump in "to save the day"

Especially if Gore enters.