WHERE WE WENT WRONG

[NanceGreggs]

Over the past six-plus years, I have truly tried to figure out why the message of the Democrats fails to make more of an impact on the citizenry.

I have watched in disbelief as our nation has become totally misled by the Republicans and their agenda – their lies, their corruption, their talking points based on spin and rhetoric, without a modicum of reality or truth.

After much consideration, I think I have perhaps found the root of our problems …

Maybe we’re not selfish enough. We actually care about the plight of others, our own fellow citizens. We think that in a nation as rich as ours, there should be no homelessness, nor children going to bed hungry. Why can’t we just say, “I’ve got mine, and that’s all that matters”?

Maybe we don’t laugh enough. We fail to see the humor in Rush Limbaugh making fun of the afflicted, or in Bush looking under his desk for those pesky WMDs that were never found while people were dying in the conflict started by that little ‘joke’. Why can’t we just laugh at the sick, the ailing, and the dead?

Maybe we don’t lie enough. We don’t fabricate news stories out of whole cloth about madrassa educations that never happened, or luxurious plane accommodations that were never requested. Why can’t we just make up facts that are detrimental to our opponents, and then deny our actions when we get caught?

Maybe we’re not self-centered enough. We don’t see an unemployed mother feeding her kids with financial assistance as a welfare queen. We don’t accept that public education is a waste of taxpayers’ dollars, because some of us can afford to send our own kids to private schools. We don’t think people should die for lack of health care. Why can’t we just not trouble our beautiful minds, and simply dismiss the misfortune of others as not being worth our time?

Maybe we’re not oblivious enough. We see injustice being done, we hear lies being told, we see corruption being covered-up at the highest levels of our government, and we ask questions – and demand answers. Why can’t we just bury our heads in the sand, and pretend that everything is as it should be, all evidence to the contrary?

Maybe we’re not irresponsible enough. When our taxpayer dollars go missing, or disappear into the pockets of administration cronies, we actually want an accounting of where the money went, and why there was no oversight in relation to its expenditure. Why can’t we just look the other way, and tell ourselves that this blatant theft isn’t happening?

Maybe we’re not hypocritical enough. When we talk about Supporting the Troops, we think that means looking after their needs on the battlefield, and their care when they return from combat. Why can’t we just buy bumperstickers, and say we’ve done our part?

Maybe we’re not gullible enough. We don’t take the word of the ever-changing military-spokesperson-de-jour at face value; we don’t accept Cheney’s assurance that every disaster is Iraq is actually a success. Why can’t we just believe in the people who have been consistently dishonest, and ignore the truth when it rears its ugly head?

Maybe we’re not silent enough. We speak up when we see injustice being done. We march, we protest, we sign petitions and we encourage others to speak out as well. Why can’t we just go to the country club for dinner, and discuss the trials and tribulations of Paris Hilton instead?

Maybe we’re not ignorant enough. We actually want the facts behind the story; we are not willing to accept ‘move along now, nothing to see here’ as an appropriate answer to every question that is asked. Why can’t we just go shopping, and act like having the right designer footwear is more important than our government telling the truth?

Maybe we’re not short-sighted enough. We look at the impact that the outsourcing of American jobs, the deterioration of our infrastructure, the eroding of our educational system, and our national debt will have on future generations. Why can’t we just enjoy what we have right now, and be content with letting our children and grandchildren figure a way out of the mess we’ve created?

Maybe we’re not unpatriotic enough. We fight back when our freedoms are eroded, when our Constitution is ignored, when the rights of others are trampled upon, dismissed as inconsequential, or outright denied. Why can’t we just worry about our our own skins in the here and now, and slink off in silence as our rights fall by the wayside? Why can’t we just accept the new reality: that our nation now tortures and wages war on innocent civilians, even children, and quash the compulsion to speak out?

Maybe we’re not malleable enough. We insist on pointing out the hypocrisy of so-called religious leaders, who spew a combination of hatred, intolerance and self-serving political rhetoric from the pulpit. Why can’t we just praise Jesus, and ignore the fact that decent people don’t do what is being done in our name, no less in the name of God?

All of that being said, I think our biggest problem is that we just don’t hate enough. We don’t hate gay Americans enough to ridicule them and deprive them of their rights. We don’t hate Muslims enough to see them all as terrorists. We don’t hate Jews, or Buddhists, or any non-Christians enough to belittle their beliefs. We don’t hate the poor, the homeless, the down-and-out enough to dismiss them as lazy outcasts who have no place in our society, and no right to look to the better-off for a helping hand.

Why can’t we just hate everyone who is different, less fortunate, not exactly like us – or who we, in our own minds, think we are? We’d be a lot more popular if we could.

But then, we have to consider that being popular has its price – the loss of our traditional American values, the loss of our decency as human beings, and ultimately the loss of our very souls.

Maybe we're just destined to be less popular, and will have to be satisfied with being much better people instead.

[madrchsod]

1. i was raised to reject everything that they stand for

and i try everyday to maintain these standards and if i did`t i would dishonor my parents. some people are raised with the values you have just written and i feel sorry for them. to live one`s life in constant fear and hatred of the unknown certainly is a life not worth living.

once again nancy you bring clarity to why we are not afraid of the dark.

[NanceGreggs]

2. Thanks, madrchsod.

I, too, have my parents to thank for raising me to have better values than the average Republican seems to have.

I now put them into three categories -- GOP voters/supporters, as well as Republicans in office:

I choose not to see the truth.
I see the truth, but choose to convince myself it is a lie.
I know the truth, but will go to my grave denying that I ever knew it.

It pretty much all adds up to the same thing ...

[Usrename]

15. Aha, the truth, well done!

"He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened." - Winston Churchill

[TomInTib]

3. Maybe we're not tough enough.

And that is a f***ing fact.

When someone squares off at you and puts up his fists, you cannot talk to him. You kick him in the nuts, right quick-like, and then you kick him in the face when his knees hit the ground.

You shoot your enemy in the back because he is your enemy.

[NanceGreggs]

11. You're right ...

... I think sometimes we are not tough enough, not ruthless enough in our approach, not mean enough to hit back even harder when we get hit.

I don't fear the enemy. What I fear is that in my zeal to defeat him, I will adopt his most dishonourable tactics as my own, and thus become what it is I most despised about him.

I want to win, but not if winning means becoming what it was I was fighting against in the first place.

I don't want a particular party to be victorious in the end -- I want the truth to be the victor, and hope that my party has been on the side of that truth all along.

[TomInTib]

18. You don't have to become what you are fighting.

You have to be a lot badder than that to win a hard fight.

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. You can't always get what you want.

In modern politics voters get two choices:
dishonorable tactics and horrible governance
honorable tactics and good governance

Dishonorable always wins, therefore horrible governance does too.

Democrats have a choice - unpleasant tactics or losing (and the antisocial society that the winners will create).

[ldf]

38. i think the distinction is that

WE can do it with the truth.

and we don't have to be malicious or vengeful when we do it.

but we DO have to have the courage to speak it, which our elected dems seem reluctant, no, AFRAID, to do.

i think the reality of what the republicans have done, and are doing, would be horrific enough for the average american, who is distracted by american idol, anna nicole (whom i loved for her basic humanity, and her grit to take what she had, and use it), terra terra terra.

IF we successfully got it past the filters the rightwing media throws up.

we don't have to become coulter, to get the point across.

you, nance, are a light in this darkness.

:loveya:

[emanymton]

13. NOT My Enemy! GOP Types Are Many Things, But Enemy Is Not

one of them. I may not agree with GOP types on any subject. Regardless, they are not my enemy.

I refuse to become like the people with whom I disagree. I will not become my enemy to defeat him.

[TomInTib]

19. "I will not become my enemy to defeat him"

I will.

That's the reason that I am alive today.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. Agreed.

We won in 2006 because the Republicans were given enough rope by our triangulation and wimpiness in 2000 and 2004 to hang themselves, not because we learned to adopt winning tactics.

If we had the winning tactics there would have been no 9-11, no Iraq war, no Halliburton hospitals.

The means are justified by the ends.

Eff the high road.

[emanymton]

27. OK. ... But Then How Will You Tell The Difference Between

you and your enemy?

[lumberjack_jeff]

29. Two possible answers:

a) We are in power, the enemy is not. If the rules suck, you have to get into power to change the rules.
b) Because we represent working folks, civil rights, individual liberty and open government. It is possible to be the party of prudent, rational governance while adopting winning tactics.

I hate the rules that allow decent people to be destroyed. I hate the rules that allow, heck, encourage politicians to pander to voters most base instincts. I hate the reality that if you lie convincingly, you win.

Nevertheless those rules are the reality. We lose by pretending they're not.

[TankLV]

33. Ummm - because we don't LIE or CHEAT or STEAL?

There is nothing that says we have to sit still and take it.

FIGHT!

And FIGHT TO WIN!

[lyonn]

21. That may be the Dems problem, we don't want to disagree

The repubs have become an enemy. They have shown no respect for the opposition, us. They are destroying America. That I can not tolerate in my mind. Some don't know what is really happening in our courts and with the constitution due to busy, busy lives. So, we Must make loud noises about that other party, to explain and use hearings in congress to allow witness to testify, under oath, what has happened in all department of our govt. But especially when it has to do with going to war and the judicial system.

[TankLV]

32. And we will continue to lose and they will continue to win with your attitude...

You don't bring a knife to a gunfight...

And once you turn the other cheek too many times, soon you run out of cheeks.

Remember, the term "meek" when it was written meant "industrious", not "timid" and "complacent" and "waiting" and "quiet" like it does today...

The INDUSTRIOUS shall inherit the earth!

[emanymton]

37. Nice Game Of Semantics, GOP Are Losing With This Attitude ...

The threat is real, no question. One can defeat the GOP without becoming them. The 'New Democratic' party are trying to emulate the GOP and what has it gotten the people?

Fight the GOP with every fiber but they still are not the 'enemy.'

[tech3149]

4. Well said Nancy

I know where I went wrong. Back on Nov 22 1963 as a kid in grade school I heard that the president had been shot (the one that offered the best hope for the future). I watched over the years as no plausible explanation was made for the events of that day. I felt helpless because I didn't have access to the information that would help me make sense of it all. It wasn't just making sense of that event, but the real details and background information of everything that was going on in the world. I didn't have the facts or the time to find them so I couldn't make informed decisions. So I got on with my life and built my career and loved my wife and did the best I could for myself without hurting others. On March 19, 2003 I finally understood that wasn't good enough. I had trusted that the powers that be had enough sense to care for the little people with the "bread and circus" that makes us feel we have some say in our lives.

I went wrong because I didn't listen to that voice in my head that told me things weren't right.

I went wrong when I had evidence that told me things were not right and just said "What can I do, I'm nobody?"

I went right when I said "enough of this shit" and said it's got to stop

I went right when I committed to making sure the evil bastards could not go on unchecked.

I am truly sorry that I let myself be turned off from political engagement for so long. It will take decades to pay my penance for not doing my duty.

Being right is not enough. Apologies are not enough. The only thing that may be enough is a lifelong commitment to be sure it never gets this bad again, and doing the work every day to make it so.

[NanceGreggs]

9. May I suggest ...

... you post this as its own thread?

What you have said is truly eloquent, and rings true with so many of us.

We all remember the day, the moment, the very incident that woke us up and made us vow to get involved in hopes of making things better.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with all us - you have probably touched more people than you know.

[lyonn]

22. I agree with Nance, this needs it's own post

What you state applies to many of us. It appears that the Reagan admin. was the beginning of the serious dirty dealing in politics. Reagan was probably our first puppet president. We were not prepared as a people to believe or deal with our Presidency becoming all powerful. We now see the destruction of our constitution. But, I don't think it is too late to change things, If, we get someone running the country that really understands and cares.

Edit: You were going back further than Reagan and there has not been satisfactory explaination for what happened to Kennedy, first Pres. I voted for. Johnson was a huge dissappointment and his presidency went from bad to worse when it came to Vietnam. But all the bad stuff, CIA, etc., seem to culminate in Reagan's presidency.

[SharonAnn]

30. Don'e forget Nixon: the Enemies List, The Plumbers, Watergate, etc.

[proud patriot]

5. I'm humbled

:patriot:

[omega minimo]

6. Balderdash

"I have watched in disbelief as our nation has become totally misled by the Republicans and their agenda – their lies, their corruption, their talking points based on spin and rhetoric, without a modicum of reality or truth."

This has been going on for six and twenty years since Reagan and the Greed Decade inflicted your laundry list of ills, aka "Reaganism" (www.ThomHartmann.com) on the nation and the planet.

There is no firm demarcation since that time-- Reaganism has infected most of the nation and its priorities over a quarter century-- most of the nation who consider themselves on the "right" side are just another grey shade of Republican Lite.

Democrats have to fuss and fight over a "Democratic Wing" or "What is a Moderate?" or "Where do Progressives fit in?" Where is the line that you draw between "Democrats" and the "citizenry"? Who passes the litmus test that your list presents?

[NanceGreggs]

8. I am not talking about past history ...

... I am talking about the here and now.

The line I have drawn is the line between those of us who care about each other and the country as a whole, and those who have excused themselves from the necessity of doing so by adopting the present administration's ideology: Keep your head down, your mouth shut, take what you can get for yourself, and screw the rest.

[omega minimo]

10. Thinking this started six years ago is a dangerous mistake

What you outlined is the legacy of Reaganism-- the "past history" that continues to this "here and now."

[NanceGreggs]

12. I'm pretty sure THIS administration started six-plus years ago ...

... and THAT is what I was commenting on.

This was not meant to be an overview of the Republican party's influence, nor its idealogy, since its inception.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

34. dragging your problems to another thread and making personal attacks break DU Rules

[omega minimo]

35. You’re right

You called the piece “WHERE WE WENT WRONG” not “WHEN WE WENT WRONG.” It’s a brilliant piece as usual, and another reversal/comparison between Us and Them.

It begins with “Over the past six-plus years... I have watched in disbelief as our nation has become totally misled by the Republicans and their agenda – their lies, their corruption, their talking points based on spin and rhetoric, without a modicum of reality or truth” and a detailed list of behaviors resulting from their corruption and lies. What you state so clearly and well HAS BEEN going on for 6 AND TWENTY years.

"This was not meant to be an overview of the Republican party's influence, nor its idealogy, since its inception." That strawman deflects but doesn’t consider the real history of the list you’ve drawn up. Inception? No. Reaganism? Yes.

Thom Hartmann talks about it frequently-- the “past history” of 26+ years of Reaganism. And the truth of what I’m saying is also echoed in other posts on this thread, including yours.

tech3149
4. “I know where I went wrong...... It wasn't just making sense of that event, but the real details and background information of everything that was going on in the world. I didn't have the facts or the time to find them so I couldn't make informed decisions. So I got on with my life and built my career and loved my wife and did the best I could for myself without hurting others.”

“I went wrong because I didn't listen to that voice in my head that told me things weren't right. I went wrong when I had evidence that told me things were not right and just said "What can I do, I'm nobody?" “


That’s a really honest and eloquent statement. And while a lot of people were doing those things, this downward trend and the list of bad attributes you outlined were being perpetrated with a :) and “Morning In America” propaganda.

As you say:

NanceGreggs
9. ”What you have said is truly eloquent, and rings true with so many of us.
We all remember the day, the moment, the very incident that woke us up and made us vow to get involved in hopes of making things better.”


So maybe the folks would rather look at the “past six years” and be proud of “waking up” and want to forget the complacency of the previous two decades? Or they were two young to notice, grew up in the Reaganism bubble and think it’s “past history.”

emanymton (re: Ronald Reagan)
14. ”Agree. RR Put A Pretty Face To Petty Greed, Graft and Grief.
“We are living through the logical extension of the RR legacy. This is the end game and the players are grabbing as much and as fast as they can before the tent comes crashing down.
“The sorry thing; the little crooks commit little crimes and go to jail. The big crooks commit bigger crimes and get away with it.
“Those of us left behind will have to clean up the mess. And the worst offender of the big rip off waltz off with their ill gotten gains.”

Yeah, emanymton gets it-- and sounds like someone who has watched it happen, who has witnessed the “past history” that led us here. Someone who refers to the “logical extension of the RR legacy” -- which you have nailed in your laundry list of How Not To Be. These voices creep out on DU, not often but sometimes in bunches-- those who have witnessed the encroachment of the “the line between those of us who care about each other and the country as a whole, and those who have excused themselves from the necessity of doing so.”

It is not only “this administration’s” ideology-- it has been in the works since 1980. The line that you present as clear is quite blurred, as over that time people have gone to sleep and woken up, been born and grown up in the Reaganism bubble. A LOT of people who would like to think they’re one of “Us” have been know to ”Keep your head down, your mouth shut, take what you can get for yourself, and screw the rest.”

NanceGreggs
12. ”I'm pretty sure THIS administration started six-plus years ago... and THAT is what I was commenting on.”

What you are commenting on, as emanymton said, is the “logical extension of the RR legacy.”

It might help if we could see that. It might help if we could acknowledge that some of us went to sleep for a time and it took Bushco. to wake us up and some of us have been diligently trying to stay off that Greed Is Good list since the “Reagan Era.” Knowing how we got here can HELP US NEVER let this happen again.

:thumbsup:


tech3149
4.  “....I went wrong because I didn't listen to that voice in my head that told me things weren't right.
I went wrong when I had evidence that told me things were not right and just said "What can I do, I'm nobody?"
I went right when I said "enough of this shit" and said it's got to stop
I went right when I committed to making sure the evil bastards could not go on unchecked.
“I am truly sorry that I let myself be turned off from political engagement for so long. It will take decades to pay my penance for not doing my duty.
Being right is not enough. Apologies are not enough. The only thing that may be enough is a lifelong commitment to be sure it never gets this bad again, and doing the work every day to make it so.”

[NanceGreggs]

36. I was speaking here in strictly present terms ...

... but I am not unaware of the past (unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember WAY past 26 political years ago!)

The particular problem I find with this administration is two-fold: (a) they have gone far beyond the 'conservative values' traditionally touted by their party. They used that meme as a stepping stone and then, once in power, turned it into something even true conservatives don't recognize -- but the true criminals amongst them do.

(b) They have been expert at packaging their most outrageous intent in a slick-and-glossy style that too many citizens find irresistable, and have marketed it well with the enabling assistance of the Fundies: Don't be merely uncomfortable around homosexuals - you're free to outright hate them, and we'll give you the appropriate Bible passages to prove you guiltless in your position. Don't see Muslims as merely people practicing a different faith -- see them as enemies intent on destroying you. That way, when we kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, you won't have to feel bad about it.

It's all been too slick, too Madison Avenue, too much a bargain you CAN'T refuse - and now even the staunchest Republicans are realizing they've been had. But buyer's remorse alone won't get them back their country, or their party - nor will it assauge the guilt that many will inevitably feel in future, as their fleecing as mindless sheep -- and its consequences -- is exposed.

The Democrats could have found their way into more hearts and minds if they'd offered more selfish pleasure without guilt fare on their menu. But in the end (hopefully), the public will realize that a balanced diet of real food may not be as tasty, but is so much more satisfying.

[omega minimo]

39. Indeed. And Reaganism smoothed the way

If the public had not been groomed for a generation or two to swallow it whole, the slick-and-glossy packaging and toxic product may not have been swallowed, but recognized for the outrageous fakery that it is.

For some of us, the writing on the wall was impossible to ignore. The packaging and fakery of the Reagan administration would predictably lead to the effect on the public, the demarcation of behavior, that you outlined so well. And it did.

"The particular problem I find with this administration is two-fold: (a) they have gone far beyond the 'conservative values' traditionally touted by their party. They used that meme as a stepping stone and then, once in power, turned it into something even true conservatives don't recognize -- but the true criminals amongst them do."

As did the Reaganites, and many echoes of that time are in our faces right now: similar crimes, similar lies, similar (no wait, the SAME!) cast of characters.

"They have been expert at packaging their most outrageous intent in a slick-and-glossy style that too many citizens find irresistable, and have marketed it well with the enabling assistance of the Fundies: Don't be merely uncomfortable around homosexuals - you're free to outright hate them" As The Band Plays on and AIDS blooms into a global epidemic;

"Don't see" welfare mothers "as merely people" trying to survive a cutthroat Republican economy, "-- see them as enemies intent on" taking your hardearned tax dollars and using them to wear fur coats and drive Cadillacs to the store to spend their food stamps. (Those toxic memes even helped a Democratic administration "End welfare as we know it.")

"The Democrats could have found their way into more hearts and minds if they'd offered more selfish pleasure without guilt fare on their menu."

What the Democrats could have done, while the way was paved for a mercenary administration, run by CEOs under another faux figurehead (and unelected) president.... what the Democrats could have done during the rise of Reaganism, was speak out and fight back. If they had pointed out that a diet of "selfish pleasure without guilt" was a scam to distract the American people while the commonwealth was sold out from under them, while the Trickle Down effect became the Trickle On effect.....

All of that led directly to the "strictly present terms" you focused on. Thank you for drawing up that list, Nance. Unfortunately, the efffect that the list illustrates was predicted by "those who were paying attention" (see "The Clothes Have No Emperor"). As someone said here, that effect was the "logical outcome" of prevous administrations (including 3 with Dubya's daddy in the WH).


(edit for "3"!!)

[emanymton]

14. Agree. RR Put A Pretty Face To Petty Greed, Graft and Grief.

§
.
We are living through the logical extension of the RR legacy. This is the end game and the players are grabbing as much and as fast as they can before the tent comes crashing down.

The sorry thing; the little crooks commit little crimes and go to jail. The big crooks commit bigger crimes and get away with it.

Those of us left behind will have to clean up the mess. And the worst offender of the big rip off waltz off with their ill gotten gains.
.
.
§

[JeffR]

7. Maybe we're just not vigilant enough

to get this on the Greatest Page much, much sooner.

[bonito]

16. My conscience is my friend

If I loose that I'm lost for good, worse off than being deaf and blind.

[emanymton]

17. Despair Not. 'The People' Are Rising Up Against GOP.

§
.
And their enablers. You fight this battle not alone. 'We the People' can and are taking back USA. The truth is winning.
.
§

[Joe Chi Minh]

20. You don't seem to have left much out of that psychopath's syndrome. At. All.

[opihimoimoi]

23. As usual....Well said...Signs of a malignant narcissist includes:Charming/Charismatic

and our GOP folks out there let themselves fall for the Bullies crap....

The main GOPers are bullies...eager to get wealthy/famous without really earning it...Notice the absence of GOODNESS in their programs....

Its all about controlling our asses to do THEIR BIDDING

[lyonn]

24. Excellent questions NanceGreggs

Which brings us to the 08 election, be it congressional or the presidential vote. Notice the outsiders that got our vote due to being what appeared honest and outspoken. Webb, etc. That should be a clue to those now running. Can we hope? There are Dems that should be in the running for president that are not and I wonder why? Is it purely money?

[kiteinthewind]

25. Always an inspiration, Nance! Recommended!

:hug: