'Dr' This and 'Dr' That ...... is it me or do the bushies overuse this title?

[Stinky The Clown]

I work with quite a few phDs. I'm related to two of them. Not medical doctors, but rather, advanced degreed persons in various specialties.

They are, indeed, 'Doctors'. But none of them use the term in their everyday lives. Sure, they could. but they don't.

To my tin ear, it sounds just plain pretentious. That's not to take anything away from them. They worked hard and they earned their advanced degrees.

KindaSleazy holds a doctorate in Russian studies or some such.

I have no idea what Kissinger's doctorate is for.

The recently ousted Army Secretary holds a phD in metalurgy - he's an engineer. But we're told to call him 'Doctor' Harvey.

Many other examples.

What do you think? Is this nomral and I'm oversensitive or is it pretentious for these people to insist on the title?

Seems self-agrandizing to me.

[rzemanfl]

1. When I refer to Bushies it is "Asshole" this and "Asshole" that so

maybe it evens out?

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. I think that they wouldn't normally do it, but they need every ounce of credibility they can get

and they know they need it: hence, the constant usage of "doctor".

The country is clearly no longer willing to buy their bullshit at face value, so they up the ante with "doctor".

[SaveElmer]

3. I think Dr. is appropriate and natural...

In an academic environment...

Out in the everyday world, it does sound a bit pretentious!

[Moochy]

4. She taught at Stanford

I used to work with someone who said she was in her class at Stanford in the 90's.

Professor Rice probably was used to being called "Doctor" there.


edited to add:

And we are talking about STANFORD here...
I think Pretension 101 is a General Education requirement. :evilgrin: ( Go UCB!! )

[Stinky The Clown]

5. A real good friend of mine just retired from a professorship at Cornell

No slouch school, there. He's also a phD.

He's always been 'Mike' to me. He's Professor ____ to his students. Nobody I know calls him Doctor. But then, maybe that's not true when he's in academic circles. I oughtta ask him. It just never occured to me before.

[brer cat]

8. There are two PhD's in my family.

No one calls them Dr. personally or at work, but both do speaking engagements, and I suspect they are referred to as Dr. at those times. In the case of Rice and Kissinger, I would suspect ego has a lot to do with it, and the need for the administration to pump up their credentials.

Kindasleezy works fine for me, and it fits either one.

[HereSince1628]

6. My diploma says "and all the rights and privileges thereto appertaining

Unfortunately within our culture the privileges of the title "Dr." is one of those.

Most people who have a PHD don't really make a big deal out of having one. It's mostly the insecure that do. When I was teaching at Bemidji, the Chairman of the Department _didn't_ have one and required everyone who DID have one to go by Mr. or Ms. so as not to embarrass his er, shall I say, lack of having the tassel end on his mortarboard sewn to his cap (yet another minor (silly?) privilege concerning distinctions made in academic regalia). Now, _that_ seemed to me to be pretentious use of authority, certainly a bigger deal than an appellation.

"doctor" actually derives from the Latin docere which means "to teach."
(doctor of philosophy translates as one who teaches others to love wisdom--clearly a contradiction of terms for the NeoCon manipulators of truthiness)

In my own mind if you aren't or haven't been a teacher, you shouldn't use a title that says you do/have.

US Physicians in regular practice don't REALLY teach anymore, since the mid 1800's formal training is required rather than an apprenticeship under a mentoring physician I always thought it pretentious for most MD's to actually use the term "Dr." And I'm not alone...calling every physician "doctor" is not a universal practice in western culture but let a US nurse call a physician "Mr." or "Ms." and watch them get disciplined.

Condi, despite her evil soul, follows a common practice in the US.

[Divernan]

7. In the U.S., people w/Ph.D.s AND class, do not refer to themselves as "Doctor".

I was in a doctoral program for 7 years (ABD) & then went to law school and earned a J.D.
The people I knew who used the "Doctor" title were ones who had a good deal of social insecurity and/or were not familiar with the etiquette of academia. The worst offenders were people with a Ph.D. in Education - I remember one whose thesis was some simplistic thing about kids' fairy tales. If you called yourself "Doctor", the understanding was that you were a medical doctor. Ph.D.s who teach want to be called "Professor".

My older brother had a Ph.D. in engineering from Purdue. For 8 years he worked as a volunteer paramedic. When he died, his fellow volunteers were quite surprised to learn of his academic credentials. He had never told any of them - just said, "Call me Dave." And as he said, anyone of average intelligence, with enough time and money, can earn a Ph.D. It does not mean that you're brilliant, or that you have any more insight or understanding, EXCEPT in the very narrow specialization of you graduate studies. This is illustrated by Rice, whose ph.d. was in cold war Russia. In other words, it's like having a Ph.D. in a dead language. She doesn't know jack about the post cold war world/diplomacy.

I have found that in Europe, lawyers are often referred to as Doctor, so I just bite my lip and bear it when some of my European friends refer to me with that title.

And the Army Secretary should be referred to with the title of Secretary, or Mr. Secretary.

[catnhatnh]

9. Seems to me there MUST be at least one brainiac...

...in the White House press corp that holds a Phd...though I checked and couldn't find one for either David Gregory or Helen Thomas...I think we at DU should buy one for Gregory at a good diploma mill-picture the scene at the press conference...

President (pointing to Gregory): "Stretch?"

Helen Thomas "Mr President, my colleague holds a Phd. You must refer to him as "Doctor".

President (looking confused) "Uh...Doctor Stretch?"....

[nealmhughes]

10. No Ph.D. I know refers to themselves as such. Their students may out of respect, but not when they

answer the phone themselves unless they just love the sound of it! Every Ph.D. with whom I have worked under or with has been their first name if around my age and a good relationship or Prof. X or Dr. X for the really respected ones.

In academia, calling someone Dr. Y is so commonplace that I frequently call elder people I really respect "Dr. Smith" instead of "Mrs. Smith" by mistake!
I know a butt load of Ph.Ds and all of them are Joe or Joan at the bar, except for those who intimidate me!

Americans, except for medical people usually don't make a big deal out of their "Dr." prefix status, in their social settings. They are Joe or Joan Smith when introducing themselves, and on their magazine labels! But if a class were changing and I ran into my good friend and colleague Joan Smith who was headed for lunch, I would probably call out "Dr. Smith!" to get her attention, then switch to Joan once we were together.

But I do love it when a bunch of academics are having a serious intellectual discussion over the merits of this week's keg of Bass or stout over last week's and all the undergrads are also in and you get to greet everyone as "Dr. Smith, Professor Danielson, Dr. Brown, Professor Stein," etc.! It is always good for laughs, and if ever in a jam, a good name dropping starting with "My good friend Doctor Brown will vouch for me for the bail" comes in handy!

[Clark2008]

11. I defer to the AP Stylebook.

"Dr." is only used for medical doctors. Everyone else is CoCo Channel, phD.

[juajen]

12. My brother, PHd in Mathematics, didn't use his title; however,

his students and other personnel at the colleges he taught always used it out of respect.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. In my experience, the less prestigious the college, the more likely

the professors are to be called "doctor."

In the Ivy League, it is considered pretentious to refer to one's self or other academics as "doctor."

[QC]

14. You never refer to yourself by your title,

particularly when dealing with colleagues. I am proud of my Ph.D. but I would never call myself by my title, and it makes my toes curl when I hear other people do it.

One colleague of mine does it, but then he has an Ed.D. and probably feels insecure.

[Eurobabe]

15. Ph.D = piled high and deep

those who are so insecure that they need to be referred to as Dr. So and So, get over your bad old selves!! Where I came from, even someone holding a doctorate was called Pofessor S and So. A Dr. is a medical doctor.

Plain and simple.

The ego in academia-land is unfreakingbelievable, I know I WORKED in academe for many years. Most of the Ph.Ds there were insecure little rodents.

[snowbear]

16. I've never heard the ugly thugly party call Howard Dean by "Dr. Dean"

...EVER.

Why is that?

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

17. When he was A.G., John Asscroft had everyone call him "General"

And then there's Dr. Laura Schlessinger, the radio shrink whose doctorate is in physiology. Aaron Sorkin did a great job of skewering her in an episode of the West Wing.

[Zodiak]

18. I just got my Ph.D.

(and yes, I am using the possessive "my" when referring to it)

I come from a family where no one went to college....no one.

My mother is so proud that I am Dr. Zodiak, now. It makes her cry because she knows how hard it was for us through the years. She raised me on her own and with very little money, and now her little boy has grown up to be a scientist.

If being called "Dr." by some makes me sound pretentious, I'll take it. What little negative attention I get because of academic convention is far outweighed by my mother's pride.

I have been in academic institutions in many parts of the country. In the South, Ph.Ds in the sciences are referred to as "Dr." by all students (generally). In the North, it is far more relaxed. I am not aware of how the title is used in the West. The use of the title has very little to do with insecurity and more to do with the level of local conservatism and tradition.

Of course, all of this is my experience alone and nothing more.

[sutz12]

19. Typical RW hypocrisy....

They lambaste academia constantly, but fawn all over their "doctorates."

[ncteechur]

20. Generally, drs don't refer to themselves as dr but others do out

of respect if they know the person is a doctor and they are using formal register. For example, I don't refer to myself as doctor and I don't correct others who don't call me doctor. People I am familiar with call me by my first name. I end my letters with my signature and my degree and I have Dr. ___ ___ on my office door. Some of my subordinates call me Dr. and some don't because many knew me prior to receiving my degree.

I think it would be terrible to insist that they now call me Dr.

Although I don't like her, I would probably refer to Condi Rice as Dr. Rice or Sec Rice.

(Although I have a list of other names I'd like to call her)

[spooky3]

21. According to Miss Manners

one does not introduce oneself by title ("I'm John Smith, or "I'm Condoleeza Rice, rather than "I'm Mr. Smith", "I'm Dr. Rice") but that does not release others from using proper titles, e.g., if you've just met the person it isn't correct to start in with his/her first name unless you've been invited to do so. In her view people with non-medical doctorates should not use the terms socially. I get that this means you don't put your title on your wedding invitations or use it at a cocktail party. But I am not sure about when you are in a professional setting. It would seem appropriate to use titles in many of those situations. That doesn't mean someone has an ego problem; it's just professional.

There is another angle that I am not sure accounts for what you've described in the OP, but women are often called "Mary" when their male counterparts are called "Dr. Jones" or "Professor Doe" or even "Mr. Smith." This is sexist and disrespectful--not friendly--and it happens a lot, even with students or others who are younger. This may also be an issue for people of color. So, sometimes you will see women and possibly others who have traditionally experienced discrimination (and others around them who are aware of this problem) being more concerned about the use of titles that they have earned than others might be.