If you had to pick 1 choice that would best serve the future well-being of the world

[mtnsnake]

Poll question: If you had to pick 1 choice that would best serve the future well-being of the world

...along with making you feel satisfied personally, which ONE of the following 3 choices would you pick if you could make it happen? Imagine that these 3 choices are the ONLY alternatives that exist and that whatever one you pick is the one that would happen.

[halobeam]

1. This is a thought provoking poll....

nice job.

I do wish there was a bit more specifics as to maybe who would be the Republican in office, in choice 2... If it was Jeb.. I would probably have voted for choice 1.

but I voted for choice 2 because I think the accountability and imprisonment of a president and vice president would keep at bay the HORRORS that a president "could" in the future, inflict. I looked at this, as whats best for the country in the long run..

I'd rather have the most dire consequences for a crooked administration acted upon, than a Dem in the house in '08. I think it would benefit (our whole country) to show them, this kind of illegal, and dictatorial type of government will NOT be tolerated by the people of our country.

Seems a better chance at a cleaner government.

[mtnsnake]

2. Thank you for such an honest and thoughtful post

I was thinking about putting more specifics in the choices, such as what you were wondering about in terms of who the Republican president would be in choice #2, but just couldn't fit many more words in each choice, and in the end I decided that the choices needed to stay difficult in order to make you think about each one before voting.

I voted as you did, BTW. I also picked choice #2. I had a hard time deciding to do so because I really really want a Democrat in office in 2008, but my desire to see justice brought to Bush and Cheney for their crimes against humanity ended up getting the best of me. In the short term, we lose another election, but in the long term, the world becomes a safer place because justice was done, and future leaders will think twice about ever committing such crimes at the drop of a hat.

[LWolf]

3. Not enough information.

My imagination is too fertile to restrict it to a starved environment in which there are only 3 choices; at the least, the choices need to be fleshed out.

Choice # 3 is out; there is nothing there to attract me.

Choice #1 is the most likely to happen. I don't see that history will condone him for his crimes, though. This one just isn't realistic. Whether or not it would "satisfy" me would depend on the Democrat that wins office in '08. I could let the impeachment issue go if the right Democrat is nominated and elected. Slim chance, looking at the current anointed "front runners."

I would be the most satisfied with choice #2, if the democratic candidate lost to a progressive 3rd party. That's not likely to happen in '08 either, but as long as we're limiting choices, that's the one I'll go for.

[mtnsnake]

6. By "condoned", I meant "pardoned" or "let off the hook"

That's exactly what happens if he isn't held accountable.

Sorry about there not being enough information in the choices for your liking. However, if I put more information in them, the choices would've become too easy to choose from.

BTW, according to what you said in your post, I think you made the proper choice. It doesn't mean that it's the perfect choice by any means, though, or that you wouldn't have preferred it to have some additional info that made it a better choice for you, I realize that. :)

[LWolf]

8. Well, at least it got me thinking, lol.

I don't want Bush let off of any hook. It's small comfort to know that the historical record won't, since he'll be dead by then. Still, that record lasts longer than one human life.

[mtnsnake]

10. Same here. Even after I made up the choices, it was hard for me to decide

which way I'd vote. I finally went with my heart and voted #2. I almost felt a little guilty about sacrificing a Democratic presidential win in 2008 to see Bush and Cheney go to prison for life, but I tempered my guilt with the satisfaction of knowing that never again can anyone be let off the hook like they have...for the future well being of us all.

I don't think any of the answers are necessarily wrong answers, btw, and I'm not surprised in the least that choice #1 would get the most votes, even though I didn't take that choice myself.

[sce56]

4. You obviously want to focus the debate I refuse to participate without real choices!

I would vote for Impeach Incarcerate and elect a Democratic candidate!

Also Draft Gore!

[mtnsnake]

5. I don't expect everyone to vote in this poll

I realize the choices are not for everyone, they weren't even that suitable for me, yet I made them up.

I would vote for Impeach Incarcerate and elect a Democratic candidate!

Of course you would. We all would. That would be the easy choice.

[dkofos]

7. I voted for #2

I really don't care who is the next prez if *ush & cheney are made to pay for their crimes.

The next prez, regardless of party will not try to pull the same shit.

[mtnsnake]

9. Same here. I voted #2, also. Mrs mtnsnake preferred #1, although she couldn't vote

because I already had. I asked her why she would choose #1, and she said she's not as vindicative as I am. lol

That, and she said that she wants to get a fresh start without any Republican ties in the WH.

[AZBlue]

49. I went with Mrs. mtnsnake

It was a hard choice, but I looked at repairing the damage that's been done and I don't think any Republican will do that, impeachment or no impeachment. So, I had to go with a Dem victory next year.

Great poll!

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[talkinghead]

12. Think about this...

A Republican president would probably be the best thing. Government seemed to operate reasonably well during Clinton's presidency when there was a Republican congress. Compare that to the last six years when Republicans have had both. When one party controls both of the elected branches they seem to only increase government intrusion into our lives.

[Tellurian]

13. The Best thing is a Republican instead of a Democratic president?

So, you think it better for us to view this Republican president from the parapets of own panopticons, as we while away the hours in the courtyard of a subjugated population on the verge of collapse. In modern times, every Republican administration has secretly done more harm to the future of our populous vis vis their PNAC agenda than any one Democratic president ever could.

[Greyhound]

15. Your proposition would be correct, if it were true, however it is not.

We have done nearly as badly as the Re:puke: executives and legislatures. The issue has never been about which team wins, for they have switched back and forth through our history, it is about the philosophy that the teams promote that matters.

[mtnsnake]

16. lol, I love how you did that smiley thing for the repuke symbol. Good one!

:toast:

[Tellurian]

39. Well, yes- my position is diabolically correct...

The fact that you disagree, is of no deference to me.

[ProudDad]

43. You forget about the Supreme Court

It's always been a tool of the capitalist masters but now it's just one appointment away from being a tool of the new fascists (if it's not too late already).

It would be even worse with a couple more puke appointments. It's still very important not to let the right-wing get another bite of the apple...

[Greyhound]

14. #2, as distasteful as it may be. The rule of law must take precedence

over the spectator sport of who's team get the big win.

[mtnsnake]

17. Well said, hound. nt

[LeftishBrit]

18. (1) as another Republican president could be truly disastrous for the world

[mtnsnake]

19. Yes it could

Although I think the bigger deterrant to ever ending up with another abusing crook like Bush would be to see he and Cheney locked up for life, it's definitely arguable as to which choice would be the best for the future well-being of the world. One option takes into account the short term and the second takes into account the long term.

Thank you for your post.

[pat_k]

20. Tying impeachment to '08 is impeachophobic propaganda

Impeachophobics try to tie impeachment to '08 to distract from the reality of the crisis we face right now. (i.e., America is a War Criminal nation that spies on it's own citizens, and will remain so as long as Congress refuses to impeach.)

Members of Congress are sworn to defend the Constitution. Impeachment is the weapon we gave them to defend us against attacks from within the halls of power. When duty demands action, outcome expectations are irrelevant.

Impeachment is the only way we can confront the truth as a nation and move forward with any semblance of honesty. Even if we have to impeach "in absentia" after they are out of office, we must come to terms with the grim reality. Impeachment is our only means of redemption. It is the means by which can declare our intent to once again assert our will and enforce our common contract, renounce the inhuman acts carried out in our name, and rejoin the world community.

Not that it matters, but failing to impeach Bush and Cheney is more likely to be a path to Democratic defeat than victory in '08. Impeachment is not just the right thing to do, it's the winning thing to do. The fight to impeach Bush and Cheney, whatever the outcome, is an unprecedented opportunity for the Democratic leadership to demonstrate strength and conviction, and to define the Democratic Party as the Party of the People's Government and the Constitution. That is, fighting to impeach effectively deals with the Number 1 and Number 2 problems plaguing the Party (i.e., the perception that Dems are weak and their inability to define overarching principles that inspire.

[mtnsnake]

22. I'm an impeachiafficionadio

Hey, I'm glad you're as passionate about seeing them impeached as I am. It's my number one priority to see justice brought to Bush and/or Cheney by means of impeachment. That much should be obvious.

[omega minimo]

23. "Should be obvious"

:crazy:

[pat_k]

31. Perhaps a new poll

Strip out immobilizing and pervasive rationalizations and see how DUer's come down.

Setting aside outcome expectations and feared consequences,

I personally want the leadership to keep impeachment 'off the table.'

I personally want the leadership to impeach Bush and Cheney.

I don't know what I personally want the leadership to do about impeachment.

[mtnsnake]

32. If I had it to do over I wouldn't change a thing

although I understand where you're coming from.

I'm real happy with the way this poll went. It was intended to be a FUN thing by virtue of its tough choices, whether rational or not...or whether or not I inadvertently arrived at some conclusion that wasn't intended.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I think your poll idea is interesting. Feel free to post it.

[omega minimo]

24. well your version of what I was saying got an affirmative

he's "tying impeachment to '08" in a negative way (3 "choices" that are all the same) and somehow he's FOR impeachment and that "should be obvious"? :wow:


"It is the means by which can declare our intent to once again assert our will and enforce our common contract, renounce the inhuman acts carried out in our name, and rejoin the world community."

"The fight to impeach Bush and Cheney, whatever the outcome, is an unprecedented opportunity for the Democratic leadership to demonstrate strength and conviction, and to define the Democratic Party as the Party of the People's Government and the Constitution."

It will also serve, as Watergate did, to educate the public about the government and the process. The false choices in the "impeachophobic propaganda" poll are part of the dumbing down and pacifying of an already-sheeplefied public.

Thanks for all your work on this pat_k :yourock:

[mtnsnake]

25. Her version was in English

as opposed to your version, which was in a mutant form of hieroglyphics.

Perhaps you should take a lesson or two from pat_k. Hope that helps...

[omega minimo]

26. You're using English

and saying nothing.

Still have not explained how-- despite your poll equating impeachment with Democratic '08 failure-- it "should be obvious" that you favor impeachment :crazy:

You didn't comprehend-- oh I see, you chose to play "douchebag" from the start. That was "my mistake." Thinking you had any credibility to lose.

:puke:

[mtnsnake]

27. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

*yawn*

[AshevilleGuy]

21. I suppose #1, but I fear we will get

#1 with a republican victory in 2008. No, I am not saying that impeachment would cause a repuke win; I just think that Rudy is going to be a helluva lot tougher than we expect. Gore could beat him, but probably not the others.

[TwilightGardener]

28. Nope

He's running on a platform of 9/11, Terra, War, and crime-fighting. Does that grab you, pull you in , make you feel good? No? Me neither. And 9/11 will be sufficiently far enough away by 2008 that it will start to lose its stranglehold on the public. I think we ought to stand Obama up, with his beautiful young family, his class, brains, and optimism, next to this nasty old wanker and his whore-wife #3, and see what happens.

[TwilightGardener]

29. Oh and I voted #1--anything else is unthinkable.

[Learn2Swim]

30. thats a tough one...

but I had to go with #1. :dem:

[IndianaGreen]

33. None of the above!

Justice demands the fair trial, conviction, and execution of Bush, Cheney, and all the other war criminals. If you don't like the death penalty, ship them to The Hague where they will also get a fair trial, but there is no death penalty.

Justice also demands that war reparations be paid to Iraq, and compensation be paid to the millions of Iraqis hurt by the US invasion and occupation.

Justice also demands a formal apology to all US servicemembers and their families for this war of choice, and full compensation and support for the pain and suffering they have endured.

[PresidentObama]

34. I'd go with number one.

As much as we should convict Bush, and impeach him...his term is almost over. And if we replace him with another GOP President, this country will continue to fall apart. We need to win in 08' and if we had to give up impeachment to do so, so be it!! America can't take eight more years of the same old, same old. Our country will only continue to crumble if we do so.

Number three would be my second choice. Lieberman besides the Iraq issue is very much Democratic. But if we had him in the WH, the war would only continue and get more grime.

President Lieberman :scared:

[Kahuna]

35. I say, deal with bushco after he leaves office and doesn't have the

priviledges and protections of the oval office. Throw his but in GITMO and see how he likes it.

[ProudDad]

36. What a stupid poll

Thanks for the laugh...

[mtnsnake]

40. If it's stupid, I guess it has something in common with most of your posts then, pop

Thanks for the laugh...

My pleasure...

[sandrakae]

37. These choices suck.

What about:
Impeachment and conviction for both Bush and Cheney and a Democratic President in 2008.

[mtnsnake]

38. Can't say as I disagree. lol

I never made any claims as to the nature of the choices, sandra! :evilgrin:

[ProudDad]

41. Ah, but then the snake

couldn't press his/her actual point:

'Anyone who's against whomever the DLC is pushing for POTUS wants bush to get off scott free'...

or

'Anyone who's for impeachment is for electing a puke president in '08'"

very poor logic, thus -- stupid poll...

Just flame bait....

[mtnsnake]

44. Stop your crying, pop, & either vote or get off the pot.

Nobody cares about your delusional thoughts.

[ProudDad]

45. See, more flame bait

those DLCers. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[mtnsnake]

47. It's only flame bait to you or anyone else who steps in and tries to make it so.

those DLCers. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

haha, so that's why you're so pissed off and whiney...because you think I'm DLC or something. Sorry, pop, hate to disappoint you, but I'm not simply to be labeled as DLC, even though I don't run around blowing fuses about the DLC 24/7 like you do. I'm a Democrat.

BTW, you should do something about those eyes of yours. Cataract problem is it?

[Nikki Stone1]

42. Impeachment and imprisonment will save our Constitution. A Democratic win might not

This country has to punish imperial/facist behavior, regardless of party.

[ProudDad]

46. I'd still like to see both

just to try to get some of our Civil Rights back.

I think the American empire is on its last legs but it will do a lot more harm on the way down with the pukes in charge than with Dems.

[blm]

48. I'm with you there.

Had Bush1 stayed in office in 1993 there would have been a greater chance for more prosecutions in IranContra as it went to trial, because media would've made it impossible for Bush to have his pardons let alone get away with them, and the Dem congress and senate would have stayed on Bush's ass on many fronts with the outstanding matters left in IranContra, BCCI and Iraqgate.