The Ticking Time Bomb Theory, destroyed by me

[krispos42]

Pay attention one and all, including lurkers and Freepers.

A common justification for allowing the US Government to torture people is the "Ticking Time Bomb Theory", which apparantly became popular from the Fox televison series "24". It goes something like this:

Terrorists have planted a nuclear, biological, chemical, or radiological weapon someplace in a city on a timer. I guess they couldn't get one of those Iraqi suicide bombers to just stand there and press a button. But whatever...

The Feds capture either one of the people who planted the bomb, or one of the people involved in the planning who presumebly know where the bomb was going to be planted. With time running out and the terrorist clamming up, presumebly under those pesky "Constitutional rights", the Feds grab pistols, clubs, knives, power tools, car batteries, jumper cables, rubber hoses, etc., to force the accused into revealing where the bomb is so the Fed can disarm it.

And the Feds need to have the power to both ignore Miranda AND civil rights in order to save lives. Because if they can't do that, they would just have to bring the accused in and call his lawyer. And while the lawyer is advising the accused to clam up....

:nuke:

All because those damn liberals, you know, made them follow the Constitution.

And this torture theory extends to a lot of people, because, after all, if you have a wiff of something that JUST MIGHT BE A TERROR PLOT, well, you have to find out, don't you?

Bullshit.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, the improbable timing of the situation above happens. We find out there's a bomb someplace in, say, Omaha, and we finally catch up to the terrorists in the hour between pressing 'start' on the timer and the mushroom cloud. We happen, of course, to know when the timer is going to go off.

So, do you really think that the federal agents, faced with KNOWING (somehow) they have x minutes before the bomb goes off, will simply treat the captured suspect like a normal criminal? Regardless of what the law is?

No, those agents will do whatever is necessary to get this critical piece of information and disarm the bomb, regardless of whether or not it is the law. These dedicated federal agents will, if necessary, throw their careers down the toilet and face going to jail if it means saving the city from an NBCR weapon. So they will not be stopped by the Constitution and the law in this case.

And let's say that, after this is all over and assuming the NBCR weapon was disabled (otherwise, it's just a bit moot), the agents that tortured the suspect turned in their badges and guns and plead guilty to, or were convicted by a jury of, violating civil and Miranda rights and were sentenced to a couple of decades in prison.

What does the President do?

HE PARDONS THEM IMMEDIATELY!!!!

As soon as the judge's gavel slams down on the bench, the President signs a pardon and messengers it over to the courthouse ASAP, and the agents are freed. Immediately. Not any of this 'last day in office' crap, either. Before the agents get back to the prison, they are freed.

Then he gives them a Medal of Freedom, to boot.

What we are doing is making sure that torture does not become a routine part of our interrogations and investigations, the way a just and moral country SHOULD BE.

[On the Road]

1. Right -- I Think the Ticking Time Bomb is a Ridiculous Justification

Personally, I doubt whether there was ever been such a situation in the prosecution of terrorism. If anyone comes up with that excuse, I think they give an example of where it has been needed.

I would go so far as to allow that justication, and only that justification, for engaging in torture as long it's banned in all other situations. As you point out, it would be done anyway.

[TheWraith]

2. Two other counterarguments.

One: If such a situation actually happened--and it doesn't--no jury in the country would likely convict the individual(s) involved on torture charges.

Two: If you really need to know something a prisoner knows this minute, there are narco-interrogation methods that are much faster and more effective than torture. Back in the '50s, the CIA discovered that if you inject a stimulant into one arm, and a barbituate into the other, then when the two drugs simultaneously hit the heart and brain it tends to make the subject crack like a ripe peanut.

[krispos42]

3. Oh, that would take too much time...

So much faster to just knee-cap somebody!

Remember, this is how they see things:

[angstlessk]

4. That is exactly what I have been saying since they wanted to

'legalize' torture. I say, that the individual detective, CIA, FBI agent will know how critical any given case is and would act accordingly...they WOULD be willing to break the law if lives were at stake, and would NOT just to interrogate any ole 'suspected' terrorist. THAT is why it should REMAIN ILLEGAL...so the temptation is not there just because the agent in charge is some sadistic ass whole who loves to torture for the sake of feeling like a big man!