Dumb move by Hillary in SC

[elizm]

Black Hillary Backers In South Carolina Tried To Block Obama Invite
By Eric Kleefeld | bio

This is interesting: It looks as if two of Hillary Clinton's most powerful black supporters in South Carolina are playing hardball with Barack Obama.

State Senators Robert Ford and Darrell Jackson, who have both endorsed Hillary, attempted to block an invitation for Obama to give a speech at the South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus annual fundraiser — and tried to use their clout as members of the caucus to arrange a speaking engagement for Hillary instead, The Associated Press reports.

Making this power-play particularly notable, the speaking slot is generally offered to a black person — so if they'd succeeded in shuffling out Obama and putting in Hillary, it would have been perceived as a major snub to African Americans. The event's organizers, however, ultimately agreed to go ahead with the invitaiton to Obama after Jackson and Ford backed down.

Ford has previously stated in no uncertain terms his opposition to the party nominating a black person for President: "Every Democratic candidate running on that ticket would lose because he's black and he's at the top of the ticket — we'd lose the House, the Senate and the governors and everything." The Hillary camp has denounced Ford's remarks.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/mar/07/black_hillary_backers_in_south_carolina_tried_to_block_obama_invite

[Tellurian]

1. DUPE!

Big D beat you to it!

and further the post has been debunked!

[bigdarryl]

4. how was it debunked. even if she had nothing to do with it she supports the cast of characters

who are supporting her.

[Miss Chybil]

2. Ok. So your headline says, "Dumb Move by Hillary..."

But the body of your post says Robert Ford and Darrell Jackson "attempted to block and invitation for Obama." Somehow that doesn't seem quite right.

[elizm]

6. Maybe you don't know the story...

These two people were HIRED by Hillary. They work as 'consultants' on her campaign...to the tune of about $250,000.

[gratuitous]

8. Link?

I read the story at TPM Cafe, and it doesn't indicate that the two South Carolina state senators are paid consultants for the Clinton campaign, or what their salary is. Do you have a link or other information to back up your assertion? Because the TPM story seems to indicate that it's two overzealous folks acting on their own.

[elizm]

13. HERE is your link!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/16/clinton.campaign.ap/index.html

You know, I live in South Carolina. I think I know a little more about this story than say...some others here.

[gratuitous]

19. Hmmm

First, no need to bite my head off; I merely asked a question.

Second, it appears from the story that (1) the contract isn't signed yet; (2) it runs from now until January 2008, a period of no more than 10 months; (3) it's for $10,000 a month, so the value is only $100,000, not $250,000; (4) the issue seems to be some heavy-handed political maneuvering in South Carolina (that is to say local) politics, and I'm not sure how closely involved the candidate is in such things; and (5) Jackson has had a long-standing relationship with the Clintons, so his advocacy on their behalf would appear to be motivated by things other than money.

But that's just my impression; far be it from me to defuse a burgeoning "scandal."

[elizm]

21. If you notice the date on the link...

It was February 16th! The contract HAS been signed and the deal was given to BOTH of them...so it IS closer to 250,000. Why is it that people on this board want to look the other way? This happened here in South Carolina, and it was all over the news here at the time of Barack's visit. Some of us are trying to provide people with the facts, but it seems some here just refuse to accept the facts.

[Miss Chybil]

33. You know, I'm leaning towards Obama myself

but I'm really tired of the incessant Hillary bashing. Show me Hillary made this "dumb move" and I might take it more seriously. Even then, were I a business owner and I wanted to open a store in Town X on corner Y, I surely would do things to discourage my competitor from opening a store on the same corner - possibly by convincing the people who live on corner Y to not invite my competitor to dinner. It's called competition - and politics.

[sendero]

64. Explain to me..

... how Obama is responsible for what a mere supporter says, but HRC is not responsible for what PAID CAMPAIGN STAFF do.

Please explain how shining a light on what is happening is "bashing".

You sound like a Bush supporter complaining that folks who claim he lied us into war are "bashing" or "haters". Guess what, the truth is a total defense against slander.

[Miss Chybil]

80. I never said Obama was responsible for anythng anybody said.

I really don't get into the "he said, she said, they should've said" bullshit. We have a long time to go before the election. Petty campaign squabbles really don't interest me, I'm a big picture person. Next year, I'll look at the big picture and decide who I want to vote for. I have a feeling a few other people in this country are going to do the same thing.

[MGKrebs]

76. The Clinton campaign has paid staff?

Who'd a thunk it?

[Carolina]

56. I live in SC, too

Ford is a buffoon and Jackson has a closet full of skeletons. Ford once spoke (if that's what you can call it) to a minority organization that I'm a member of and all he did was ask the assembled group to support his campaign, to give him some money. By the time he finished, everyone looked around as if to say: who invited this jackass here ...

Anyway, whatever their connections -- real, perceived or somehwere in the middle -- to HRC's campaign, they are out for themselves.

[mtnsnake]

3. How is this a dumb move by Hillary if she didn't even make the move herself?

You're reaching for the stars.

[elizm]

5. Becasue she HIRED these two guys!!!!!!!!! n/t

[mtnsnake]

9. That's about the lamest reason I've ever heard

You claimed she made the move herself and you were wrong.

[wyldwolf]

10. didn't Obama hire those guys who made those stock deals?

[Kahuna]

17. What does that have to do with dirty campaign tricks?

nt

[wyldwolf]

25. if we make a candidate responsible for what his/her people do...

... it applies to anything.

[Kahuna]

39. They work for her campaign. The issue is about a CAMPAIGN dirty trick..

You are hi-jacking the thread by inserting Obama's stock deal, which has NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH to do with THIS subject. Get it now? She should either fire them or suffer the wrath of primary voters. Her choice. She's already losing the support of black voters. I guarantee you this will not hurt. So keep defending the indefensible. Obama supporters will thank you for it in the long run.

[wyldwolf]

46. and the stock brokers work for Obama.

:shrug:

The situation may be a campaign dirty trick, but the issue is are candidates responsible for what the people who work for them do?

[Kahuna]

51. Okay, since you want to play dense, play by yourself.

nt

[wyldwolf]

55. the only one playing dense is you.

[MGKrebs]

77. What dirty trick? They work for the campaign, they tried to get her the gig.

It didn't work out. :shrug:

[zulchzulu]

49. Do you understand the elements of a blind trust?

Granted, this story is off topic...but if you followed the Obama story, the money used by the stockbroker for the stocks in question were from a blind trust. Boiled down, that means that the person who owns the blind trust does not know where the investments are going...

[wyldwolf]

50. of course I do.

Do you not understand that the two Clinton staffers were working on their own, as well?

[zulchzulu]

63. I already stated that...

Read:

Reply #52: Exsqueeze me, but it's not Senator Clinton's fault...

[MGKrebs]

75. But he dumped it because it wasn't blind enough.

That was the reason given. So it wasn't REALLY a blind trust.

[Kahuna]

16. They work for her. What part of that don't you get.? They are paid

consultants. She should fire them at once.

[blm]

72. This was a CAMPAIGN MOVE by CAMPAIGN HIRES. They would only do this if HRC campaign

wanted them to do it.

It is absurd for people to even TRY pretending her campaign is separate from this move.

[wyldwolf]

7. Let me see if I understand this

Two people hired by Hillary do something and it is her fault.

People hired by Obama (his stock brokers) do something and it wasn't his fault.

:shrug:

[mtnsnake]

11. If you hire me & I steal your money, it's your fault & you should go to jail, not me!!

Dont ya see?

[elizm]

12. Now who is reaching for the stars? n/t

[mtnsnake]

14. How about this one then

"Officer, yes I was speeding 40 miles over the limit, but the salesman who sold me this Ferrari...well it's his fault!" (snicker)

[elizm]

22. Whatever...

Keep your head in the sand if that is what you wish to do.

[snowbear]

15. Wyldwolf.. for someone whose first choice isn't Mrs. Clinton-

You sure go around bashing anyone BUT her these days.

I honestly can't tell who is more obnoxious. Her campaign staff, or her small (but always present) band of internet supporters here.

"No evidence of ethical impropriety"

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703070008

[mtnsnake]

23. Amazing

Because Wyldwolf defends someone by telling the truth, Wyldwolf's the obnoxious one? Figure that.

[snowbear]

24. Wyldwolf isn't the only Hillary supporter here Mtn...

Hell -- there has to be what -- at least 5 or 6 of you!

But seriously.. I just happen to think it's obnoxious when someone like you insinuates that Senator Obama should be jailed because of a stock deal that you've only heard about since this morning.

One thing we can agree on. It's going to be a LOOOOooOOooong primary season..

[Colobo]

27. It's amazing

There are a couple of Hillarites here that simply seem to dislike/hate Obama with passion, and are looking for any possible way to put him down. It's like they are so afraid of him.

I'm a proud Obama supporter, but I try not to get involved in Hillary bashing threads (Southern Talk, Libby statement, etc.). My support for Obama is solid by itself and it doesn't need to be fueled by attacking Hillary or Edwards or any other candidate.

[mtnsnake]

34. I'm one of those proud Obama supporters

who just happens to defend Hillary from the relentless, unfair accusations made about her here 24/7. I also happen to like her, too, obviously, but Obama has been my favorite for a long time. That's on record.

[Colobo]

37. I know

I'm not referring to you, actually. :)

I mean, why bash other candidates when you can focus on supporting yours and letting others know why that person has what it takes to be president?

[dionysus]

28. OH SNAP

ding ding ding! hammer hits nail, squarely!!! :)

[mtnsnake]

30. Ya got da wrong guy, larissa

But seriously.. I just happen to think it's obnoxious when someone like you insinuates that Senator Obama should be jailed because of a stock deal that you've only heard about since this morning.

That had to be someone else who said that. Obama is my favorite.

Wyldwolf isn't the only Hillary supporter here Mtn...Hell -- there has to be what -- at least 5 or 6 of you!

Yeah, but if it's only 2000 of them against 5 or 6 of us...welll, they don't stand a chance, larissa. :smoke:

[snowbear]

36. LOL....

"That had to be someone else who said that." Obama is my favorite.

I'll give you credit for this.. You can fib with the best of 'em!!

[mtnsnake]

38. It's true.

If you don't believe me, ask one of the strongest Hillary supporters around...Tellurian. Tellurian and I have had more than one friendly debate over her favorite, Hillary, and my favorite, Obama.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

29. what's worse... "juvenile detractors"...

or arrogant sanctimonious douchebags?

[wyldwolf]

31. I would say juvenile sanctimonious douchebags

...like that "god" of antiquity - Dionysus.

[snowbear]

32. Two questions Wyldwolf..

1. Who are the juvenile detractors you speak of?

2. You didn't find it obnoxious that one of the Hillary supporters here suggested Senator Obama should be jailed??!!??

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

41. two answers

1. They must be the counterparts to the obnoxious small (but always present) band of internet Clinton supporters here you mentioned.

2. I don't think he was serious

[Dr Fate]

42. The DLC version of "nutroots" are the sole reason why I cant stand Hillary or the DLC.

If it were not for them, I could probably be fooled into thinking that the DLC & Hill are on my side- or at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

All they ever did was trash Liberals and the anti-war movement- now they all pretend like Hillary has always opposed the war and has always been on my side.

[dionysus]

44. hush now

you "far-left" "fringist"!!! ;)

[Dr Fate]

45. Yea- I'm one of those "wackos" who didnt trust Bush. I'm "far left" because I knew he was lying.

As opposed to the calm, clear-eyed, patriotic DLCers who swallowed every lie he & the media told like it was sweet milk.

They all pretend like they never supported Bush's war- and they wonder why no one trusts them.

[dionysus]

48. b-b-b-b-but!

they had "intelligence!(tm)" we weren't privy to.... oh wait.... DU and a bunch of House members and a few courageous senatons knew it was bullshit from the start, the "fringe leftist fairy" must have left a mint under their pillows! ;)

[Greyhound]

61. Amazing how quickly, and coincidentally they do those 180's

at the same time, and synchronized with the candidates reversals, it's almost like they were following directions of some kind...:eyes:

[Kahuna]

18. Her fault? Maybe not. Probably not. But she should fire them.

Don't you think?

[Dr Fate]

43. At the least she should demand that they cease these tactics- but she wont.

n/t

[MGKrebs]

79. What tactics? Trying to get her speaking gigs?

[Dr Fate]

81. No-ordering her paid employees to keep others from getting speaking engagements. n/t

n/t

[Colobo]

20. Ford is a tool

[NDP]

40. Ford is a member

[DemDogs]

78. Hillary paid for him - now she's got him

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[blm]

83. Of course he's a tool, and that is what Clinton campaign WANTS to hire - TOOLS.

They are running this campaign modeled after Bush's 2000 campaign, not like Bill's 1992 run.

[zulchzulu]

47. Exsqueeze me, but it's not Senator Clinton's fault...

If these supporters want to be jackasses, it's not Senator Clinton's fault. If her campaign was involved in the decision, that would be another story.

No candidate has control over all their supporters. Granted, these people will be a major part of the South Carolina contingent for her campaign. But if they decide to try to squeeze out another candidate from speaking...yes, it looks bad and is not a good move, but...it is not Senator Clinton's fault.

Now that the story is out, it might be a good idea for the Clinton campaign team to make a call to them and tell them they are a reflection of the campaign and should be advised to chill out a bit. That's what I would do...

[Kahuna]

52. They're not "supporters." They're employees. There's a big difference.

nt

[mtnsnake]

54. Tell that to the OP'er. She's the one who called them powerful supporters. nt

[elizm]

60. Excuse me..

Can you show me where I called them powerful supporters? The article said they were powerful supporters but that does not negate the fact (That we have all been trying to make clear0....that they are EMPLOYEES of Hillary's campaign.

[mtnsnake]

66. My apologies. It was the OP that said they were powerful supporters, not you

Sorry about that.

[PresidentObama]

53. Well said, I agree.

And even if it was Clinton's fault, and it isn't, it obviously backfired. This like a lot of things is being overexaggerated because some people want to attack Hillary for anything. Just like Obama wasn't in control of Geffen when he made that stupid response, Clinton can't leash up her supporters and tell them what to do.

[ripple]

57. SaveElmer???

Do you still believe Senator Obama should denounce an internet ad created by people who have nothing to do with his campaign????

Sorry to single you out, but considering the other thread you started, it strikes me as a fair question. :shrug:

[Colobo]

58. Good call...

[SaveElmer]

65. I never did...

Simply providing an example of the type of slanderous smears Hillary is subject to daily around here...judging by the responses I got people thought I was being unfair...expecting him to answer for people he had no control over, posting something negative before researching it first, taking it out of context...

Well now you know a little bit of how some of us feel when BigDarryl posts the Madrassa story (Obama got slammed there too) for example, or the ridiculous "Southern accent" story, and the dozens of other daily right wing smears that pass for "evidence" around here...

No slur to scurrilous, no source too right wing, and no conspiracy theory too wild when it comes to Hillary...

Drudge, Fox, Washington Times all reputable news sources when it comes to Hillary criticism...

Right from Drudges twisted mind to DU...

[ripple]

70. Please correct me if I'm wrong,

but your OP in that thread was a serious assertion that Obama should denounce the YouTube ad. My disagreement wasn’t about you posting an example of an internet smear against Hillary. Instead, I objected to the fact that you were asking Obama to be held accountable for something that, even by your own admission, his campaign had nothing to do with.

I agree with you that there are some smears posted here on DU that are over the top and often generated by biased, right wing sources. I think sometimes it really boils down to the intentions of the poster. I, for one, appreciate seeing examples of media bias (the madrassa story, CNN's Osama/Obama crap), but I tend to cringe when I see opinion pieces that are clearly agenda-driven posted here as fact, for no apparent reason other than to attack a candidate’s character.

Hillary certainly isn't the only candidate being unfairly attacked here, but I think her "front-runner" status makes her particularly vulnerable. Not to mention her high unfavorability ratings, even among democratic voters. Not that those factors excuse bad behavior, but they might help to at least explain it.

I tend to think posters like the one you mentioned should not only refrain from linking to dubious sources, but they should also refrain from repeating information from such sources as fact. Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen. I have a feeling that some of the venom we're seeing on DU might be a pretty damned good indication of how nasty the race itself is likely to become.

I do understand and share your frustration, though. Looks like we're in for a long ride. :hi:

[SaveElmer]

71. No it wasn't...

I do not think Obama, or any candidate should be held accountable for despicable tactics done in their name without their approval...

Just wanted to post something to provoke the same reaction that those few of us here at DU that support Hillary are mocked for, in response to the same type of slurs against her...

Sometimes its hard to convey how that feels without a little example...if you look through my posts on DU you will see that I rarely even criticize other candidates (I do on occasion), let alone engage in the type of slander directed at Hillary by many (not all) here...

[ripple]

73. Thanks for the clarification

If you were merely trying to generate outrage, you should have just told us that Obama has taken up heroin to replace his ciggies, or that he was once Madeleine Albright's young lover. :P

Kidding, kidding.

[SaveElmer]

74. ...

:-)

Well didn't want to go way overboard...

[Learn2Swim]

67. ..

nice. :)

[ProSense]

59. Jackson is paid $10,000 a month by the Clinton campaign

Exclusive | 2 S.C. lawmakers linked to Jackson back Clinton

House members, from Charleston and Florence, have business ties with state senator
By AARON GOULD SHEININ
[e-mail]

Two additional state lawmakers with financial ties to a local firm hired by U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton’s campaign have endorsed the New York Democrat’s bid for the White House.

Sunrise Communications of Columbia is owned by state Sen. Darrell Jackson, D-Richland, and is being paid $10,000 a month to work for the Clinton campaign.

Reps. David Mack, D-Charleston, and Terry Alexander, D-Florence, operate Sunrise of Charleston and Sunrise of the Pee Dee, respectively.

Jackson endorsed Clinton last week. The following day, the firm’s contract with Clinton’s campaign was revealed, leaving Jackson and Clinton to respond to charges the endorsement was financially motivated.

more...

[Learn2Swim]

68. yes

Hillary Clinton is teh sleeze.

Trying to block Obama from giving a speech at the South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus, because of possible black voters perception, and flying in the face of the fact that Barack Obama is in fact a black man>? WOW.

A little stupid, a little sleezy.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

62. Buy political operatives & disavow actions when it blows back, same old shit.

[rocktivity]

69. Hillary hired them, and they acted on her behalf. That makes it her responsibility.

And she clearly doesn't command enough leadership over her staff if they're pulling stunts like this without her knowlegede or consent.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Clarkie1]

82. This Ford character talks like a real jerk!

What an asinine thing to say!