Death Penalty Reconsidered

[PurpleChez]

I am generally an unwavering opponent of the death penalty. But this morning, when I heard that that animal in Florida who buried the little girl alive in his backyard could get the death penalty I caught myself saying "good" out loud. I think the name is "Cooey," although I won't go online to check because everytime I re-encounter the story I have waking nightmares. Just this morning I heard a new detail ("clutching a stuffed dolphin") that I probably didn't need to hear. I'll never be one one those people who celebrate outside of prisons during executions, but I don't think I could muster up a protest for this guy. I mean...how much of a hypocrite does this make me?

[nuxvomica]

1. Not hypocritical, IMHO

I'm against the death penalty but there have been many occasions when my gut reaction has been to execute the monster. You can have such a strong emotional response and still believe that the law shouldn't indulge it.

[PurpleChez]

2. "You can have such a strong emotional response and still believe that the law shouldn't indulge it"

That is one of the best thoughts on the topic I've heard.

[nuxvomica]

4. I learned a lot about justice from Larry Talbot

When I was a kid, I loved the old Universal horror films and learned quite a bit from them. Larry Talbot was "The Wolf Man", a decent fellow who became a murderous werewolf when the wolfbane bloomed and the moon was full. Aware of this curse, he would arrange to lock himself up in dungeons or jail cells on moonlit nights. So like Mr. Talbot, we need to be aware of our more dangerous impulses and seek a justice system that holds them at bay.

[PurpleChez]

7. I was reading an article in a recent Nat. Geographic about Buddhism

that included a photo of a fellow meditating on the RR tracks leading to Auschwiz, along with his quote that we must recognize the capacity for evil in each of us. Seems the Wolfman may have been a great lay buddhist.

[FiveGoodMen]

Absolutely! Well put!

:applause:

[FiveGoodMen]

37. Absolutely! Well put!

:applause:

[catabryna]

5. Great way to explain it...

Because I, too, have had those feelings but still remain strongly against the death penalty.

[BoneDaddy]

9. iSelf delete

This topic is too disturbing.

[PurpleChez]

16. It is too disturbing

I hope you have better thoughts for the rest of the day.

[Orrex]

12. That's exactly right

We should not legislate or sentence out of fear; the process should be stripped of emotionalism as much as possible. Exposure to a tragedy does not in itself qualify one to pass laws about it.

[sharp_stick]

3. Not a hypocrite

It's obviously natural to feel hate and revulsion regarding a POS like Couey. I'm constantly amazed at the inhumanity of people like him. There is nothing inside of him that can be called human and in a purely clinical way he's a fascinating example of a true nutjob.

Like you I oppose the death penalty, but simply because I feel it's too easy to execute the wrong person. When it comes to Couey I really won't feel bad when he dies. I have a hard enough time not joining the mob mentality that would like to see him skinned alive.

[PurpleChez]

6. I know....

if I found out that he was slowly beaten to death by his fellow inmates I wouldn't complain. There is no question of guilt here. He confessed. Even then I normally wouldn't endorse the DP, but here, I can't object....

[BoneDaddy]

8. Self Delete

I can't even entertain what this man did, sick.

[Colobo]

11. Exactly. Beautifully said.

[PurpleChez]

15. Me neither

and it's not just 'coz I'm the dad of a 4-year-old girl. This is just evil. The image of the stuffed dolphin will be in my nightmares. I know we shouldn't legislate on sentiment and emotion, but I don't care what happens to this guy. No sympathy.

[Colobo]

10. The guy should die

As well as everyone who does that to children.

[hcil]

13. No hypocrite at all!!!

cuey RAPED AND MURDERED A 9 YEAR OLD GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE MUST BE EXECUTED.

[santaclawsz]

17. agreed

[PurpleChez]

14. Thanks to all who have responded

it's good to know I'm not alone in this.

[ProudDad]

18. Murder is Murder

whether an individual does it or the state.

Killing this guy will NOT bring back that little girl. Killing this guy will NOT keep someone else from doing something as bad or worse in the future. Killing this guy will not make the family whole, or I submit make them feel any better.

Revenge corrodes those who wallow in it. State murder corrodes the WHOLE society.

There's a damn good reason why we're the only major industrialized society that still uses this barbaric practice. The rest have grown up...

On Edit: I understand your emotional response. It's a natural response of a rational, empathetic human being to an irrational, insane act.

But, it's the responsibility of us rational, empathic human beings to rise above these irrational, insane emotional responses. To do otherwise would be to act like he did.

Thanks for your thoughtful post...

[Colobo]

21. No. To get rid of him

is to get rid of dangerous individual. Society is better without him.

[ProudDad]

28. You don't have to murder

the guy to "get rid of him".

Nobody on this thread said anything about ever releasing this man back into society...

[PurpleChez]

31. The sane part of me

agrees whole-heartedly with you. I'm glad that's the side that usually wins out.

[Labors of Hercules]

35. what do you have to do then, bury him in the ground and feed him through a straw?

or, on second thought, forget the straw, just bury the bastard.

[HughBeaumont]

19. You maliciously harm a child, via severe beating, rape or murder, DEATH.

End of sentence.

Jeffrey Lundgren was recently put to sleep for executing a family in 1989. Among them, two teenage girls and a seven-year-old girl, who he shot in the chest and skull while bound and threw her in the pit with the rest of her dead family. See, I think he should have been chopped starting from the feet and going up for that.

I'm still on the fence about the death penalty. For one, you have Ohio cases like Joe D'Ambrosio's and Anthony Apantovitch's; foggy and questionable case studies prosecuted by a now-retired "professional" who was well known for using shady methods to get convictions. I still hope these two men get out or the very least get their sentences reduced.

Then you got child killers and rapists like the Lundgrens and Richard Davises of the world, who are pure evil mistakes and should be destroyed. I don't give people like that a second of empathy or thought. I wouldn't forgive them, EVER, if it was my child they killed.

[ProudDad]

20. Interesting

you have a button at the end of your post that says "How's it going to end?"

If you continue to act out "eye for an eye", "death for a death", How's it going to end? Who says who is to live or die? What criteria do you use?

You should read Harry Blackman's final word on the death penalty: http://ethics.sandiego.edu/Blackmun.html

"From this day forward, I no longer shall tinker with the machinery of death. For more than twenty years I have endeavored—indeed, I have struggled—along with a majority of this Court, to develop procedural and substantive rules that would lend more than the mere appearance of fairness to the death penalty endeavor. Rather than continue to coddle the Court's delusion that the desired level of fairness has been achieved and the need for regulation eviscerated, I feel morally and intellectually obligated simply to concede that the death penalty experiment has failed."

That's the best legal opinion.

The best moral opinion is that it's wrong to kill - no matter who does it to whom.

[Esra Star]

92. One point worth considering as well. Some of these people

actually want to die. They are indulging in ritualistic suicide.
When the state obliges, it makes for an attractive proposition
for these people to go out in a blaze of glory.

[mitchum]

44. That is GREAT news about Lundgren...

I read an account of his crimes years ago and was absolutely appalled.
Inhuman monsters forfeit humane treatment.
There is a little bit less evil in the world now that he is food for worms.

[Trajan]

22. If it is wrong for Cooey to kill ....

It is wrong for me ....

I will not kill, nor would I condone killing, anyone convicted of a criminal act ....

While your emotions are valid, they are NOT justification to kill someone ...

I used to hold out that killing child killers was 'ok', because it would at least remove them from the possibility from doing it again, but even that was a hypocritical rationale ...

He can be incarcerated until he dies, and never shall he hurt a child again ....

But to kill him removes our differences, with the only difference being the age of the deceased ...

[Colobo]

23. That's sweet, but...

A child rapist/killer deserves no mercy. That guy does not deserve to be kept alive, to be fed, to be given a place to live (jail) with taxpayer's money for the rest of his miserable life. He gave his rights away, he gave his condition of humanity away when he raped Jessica Lunsford, threw her inside a plastic bag and buried her alive.

[Trajan]

24. It isnt a matter of sweetness ....

It's a matter of moral consistency .... and personal integrity ....

It is a matter of having a valid philosophical viewpoint ... One that can direct your actions the rest of your life ....

His humanity is questionable, but it is your own humanity YOU would lose, I believe, if YOU take his life .... YOU are killing then, NOT him ...

Most of your statement is an appeal to emotion, and is understable .... Sure, you WANT this man to suffer, because you are personally angry .... but in the end: revenge gets us nowhere, because WE have to be accountable for what WE do, not what someone else does ... Your anger is hardly a valid rationale for capital punishment ...

His criminality is his own, as mine is mine and yours is yours .... Your taking of his life is YOUR act, not his .... YOU would be accountable ....

[Hippo_Tron]

26. After the sentencing phase of the trial and appeals...

It's cheaper for us to house him in prison for the rest of his life.

[ProudDad]

29. You take his life

and you've accomplished the same feat he accomplished - the cold blooded murder of another human being.

On edit: "sweetness" has NOTHING to do with it. I don't want our society to sink to his depth.

[CTLawGuy]

89. net gain-

two dead people...

sounds like a losing proposition.

[CTLawGuy]

88. I don't want to house or feed any criminal

why should they be supported for free just because they committed a crime?

should we just kill them all?

[rep the dems]

50. I don't know if you've ever seen Batman Begins but:

"Your compassion is a quality your enemies will not share!"

"That's why it's so important. It separates us from them."

Not specifically referring to the death penalty, but the same logic applies.

[meldroc]

25. Yeah, the violent part of me says fry the fucker...

and bring Old Sparky back from retirement and make sure they forget to wet the sponge, but there are those problems that come from permanent solutions to temporary problems...

I'm opposed to the death penalty - more killing will not bring Jessica back, but I'm not going to shed any tears for Couey.

Maybe we can get some solace from the fact he's probably going to spend the rest of his life in a supermax, pacing, hallucinating and talking to himself in his cell 23 hours a day, and we can watch him completely wig out. That's far worse than a date with the needle.

[ProudDad]

30. I agree he should not

be released into society.

However, your blood thirsty desire to torture this man for the rest of his life demeans you. It's the same thing he probably thought about his victim...

Every God Damn supermax should be blown up and it's pieces made dust. They represent an ultimate failure of this "civilization".

[meldroc]

32. Yeah you're right.

I can be a vicious bastard sometimes.

When I see the things Couey did, yeah, I get really vengeful. Doesn't make it right, but yes, I have those feelings.

Settling for a humane life sentence will be very difficult. It's the right thing, but it is hard to do the right thing...

[Hippo_Tron]

42. Actually in this guy's case, he'd probably be killed by the general prison population

Or they would have to isolate him to avoid said fate, which would be basically the equivalent of a supermax.

And personally I don't think there's anything wrong with wishing a horrible fate on someone like this. Vengeance isn't a desire that can always can be controlled and it brings out the worst in us. That is why I feel so strongly about a justice system that isn't about vengeance.

My other reason for being against the death penalty is that it's a good measure of protection against totalitarianism. If the government wants to silence millions of dissenters it's much easier to kill them than to imprison them.

[mitchum]

38. I find the supermax prisons to be far more sadistic than the death penalty...

even though he would spend a measure of his time there masturbating to memories and fantasies of raping children (which is what they do), he would eventually go mad in the supermax. In its way, capital punishment is far more merciful.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. Life in prison is good enough for me

Maybe there are cases where you can "justify" the death penalty, but on the whole humans are bad judges of whether other humans should live or die. The death penalty is on the whole a flawed system and so I don't see the need to make exceptions just because we think this guy or that guy deserves to die.

[BreweryYardRat]

33. There are always exceptions that have to be made.

You're not a hypocrite at all.

This guy's guilt is so obvious that we should just give him the needle now and be done with it. In ambiguous cases or forced confessions, appeals are fine, but when something's blatantly obvious, speed the process up.

[Hippo_Tron]

41. Too much of a slippery slope

You really don't want to give the government the power to deny people their appeals. I'd much rather have a system where a few absolute slime balls get appeals that they don't deserve rather than having one where hundreds of innocent people get executed.

[ProudDad]

34. Check this out

http://www.ccfaj.org/documents/press/SacBee1-2-07.pdf

If you're looking for an arcane fact to dazzle your dinner companions, here's one: False testimony from jailhouse Informants Is the leading cause of wrongful convictions of death-row Inmates.

According to the Center on Wrongful Convictions at the Northwestern University School of Law, false testimony was a factor In close to half of the 111 death-row exonerations across the country since 1973.

[Colobo]

36. I'm pro death penalty in special cases

In which children are killed (apart of raped and brutalized). If you don't have any regards for the life of a child, society should not have any regards for your sick life.

This fella is here in Florida, and that needle will be inside his vein in a couple of years. Too bad it can't be next week.

[Clarkie1]

39. The death penalty will result in the execution of innocent people.

At one time or another.

That's why it's morally indefensible.

[thoughtcrime1984]

40. This is the one issue where I actually sit on the right.

If a person is found without a doubt to be guilty of murder that is not in self-defense, I am for the death penalty. In this particular case, I want to kill the sick fuck myself. He can't be gone from this world fast enough, and I would say make him go the same way he made his victim go. I feel very ill now that I know of this heinous act.

[Nutmegger]

43. Killing him would equal revenge

and revenge killing is always wrong in any circumstances. He should get life and prison, Saddamn should have been left at the Hague, etc.

I have never wavered from my anti-death penalty view and never will. Revenge killing is always wrong and I will always denounce it when it's being carried out in my name.

Never in my name.

[mitchum]

45. No, killing him would equal justice

semantics is fun

[Nutmegger]

46. Nope just revenge. nt

[Colobo]

47. So what?

The guy brutally raped and buried alive a 9 yr. old girl.

The state should not provide housing and food for life to that bastard. I'm sure he will be executed, and I'll be glad when it happens, as most Floridians and Americans in general will.

[Nutmegger]

49. State sanctioned killing is inexcusable.

Collectively as a society we are better than a murdering thug. Killing for revenge is immoral and when the state kills in my name based on revenge, "eye for an eye", I will always denounce the death penalty.

Revenge will not provide solace to the families. It will not bring people back to life. It does not deter people from committing horrible acts. It's just more death aimed at making people feel comfortable that he "got his just desserts".

I won't be glad if/when he's executed. We can't pick and choose who receives human rights and who doesn't. It'll be another grim reminder that the US kills people.

Life in prison without parole is good enough for me.

[Colobo]

52. You have your opinion, and I respect it

I still think the death penalty should apply for cases like this one.

[mitchum]

55. You are the only one using the word "revenge"...are you fixated?

The judicial system (y'know, that bothersome thing) deals with justice, not revenge.
You are hauling out an old shopworn canard with your attempt to define it as "revenge" The legal system does not define it so (and like it or not, THAT is the arena in which Couey's fate will be decided)

[Nutmegger]

56. When it comes down to it, it's all about revenge.

I always hear "eye for an eye" or he'll be "getting his just desserts" and somehow that makes everything okay. Saying that the death penalty is about justice is a farce. It's not.

I'll call it what it is. Most civilized countries get it.

[Colobo]

57. Yep, it is civilized to feed, clothe and shelter child killers for life...

[mitchum]

62. And also provide them with the opportunity to masturbate to memories and...

fantasies of raping and killing children. Because THAT is what they do while incarcerated. An ugly, but true fact. Apologies if it troubles the more "civilized" here.

[mitchum]

60. Well, I can call a cat a horse, but it doesn't mean the beast is going to eat hay

Do the courts who review the appeals of the convicted use the terms "eye for an eye" or "getting his just desserts"? If you can prove to me that does indeed occur, I will eat my hat (along with the hay that the "horse" inexplicably refuses to eat)

[ProudDad]

65. You keep believing that fairy tail

that the criminal injustice system is about justice.... That's ludicrous...

It's not about justice. Just ask the people who are actually in the system and the ones who benefit by the system -- lawyers and judges...

It's ALL about power; who has it and who it's applied against.

As Lenny Bruce said, "The only justice in the hall of justice is in the halls!"


You'd better pray that you never have to find out how "just" that system is...

[mitchum]

69. And you do not benefit from the legal system?

Think carefully before you answer...

[ProudDad]

77. Not much!

It tends to put away the wrong people for way too long and almost never puts away the people who are really fucking up the world.

There's still some crime in the streets, not nearly as much as the bullshit MSM or the fear mongers in the repuke and Dem party would like you to believe. People still do drugs. Occasionally, someone is killed -- senselessly, stupidly (more a problem of TOO MANY GOD DAMN GUNS, an economy that causes so much pain and hopelessness for so many and the phony "war on drugs" than anything else). The rich crooks get richer and the rest of the petty crooks get prison time...

Yeah, It's workin' fuckin' great!!!


And then there are the crime factories that folks are sent to. From juvie through jail to prison, folks are taught better ways to boost cars, use other folks credit cards and kill. Then there's the HUGE recidivism rate for nearly every crime except, oddly enough, murder and sex crimes.

So, THAT system is workin' fuckin' great for us too!!


But all this is completely understandable. The primary purpose of the "justice" system is to protect the rich from "the mob".

It's also a method to keep black people from gaining their freedom. It's not an accident that black and brown people are so overrepresented in your wonderful "justice" system.

Now it's becoming just another commodity with privatized prisons and jails. A new form of internal outsourcing.


It would be nice if there really was a "rule of law". It would also be nice if the laws weren't designed to protect a polito-economic system that will probably cause the end of mammalian life on Earth.


I have a question for you. How do you benefit from state sponsored murder?

Think carefully before you answer...



On Edit: For me personally, the bullshit "criminally unjust" system has cost me about $200,000 and a year of my life. This is not to mention being a target of the FBI during CoInTelPro and being rousted by various cops when I had long hair in the 60's and 70's.

[rep the dems]

51. I wholeheartedly agree.

And it shocks me to see a fellow DUer say that it is justice. Really disappointing.

[mitchum]

71. The JUDICIAL SYSTEM defines it as justice...

not me

[ProudDad]

78. Check your dictionary

jus·tice (jŭs'tĭs) pronunciation
n.

1. The quality of being just; fairness.
2.
1. The principle of moral rightness; equity.
2. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness.
3.
1. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.


The "criminally unjust" system fails on all counts. It's not fair, contains no moral rightness, no equity. It doesn't uphold what is just -- fair treatment, has no honor nor consistent standards equally applied.

On all counts, failure, failure, failure

And, IT DOES NOT EVEN "KEEP US SAFE!"

[rep the dems]

48. I think it depends on your reason for opposing the death penalty.

If you oppose it because you feel it is morally wrong to take the life of someone who has taken a life then that it hypocrtical. But if you feel it is appropriate to execute someone in extreme cases or if they have confessed or are undoubtedly guilty then that's not hypocritical.

[ProudDad]

66. If I read your post right

Your "logic" is extremely faulty.

It's NOT hypocritical to have a moral objection to both war and the death penalty.

It's NOT hypocritical to oppose murdering a person who murders another person. That's a completely consistent position. A hypocritical stance is one that's INCONSISTENT. For instance, it's hypocritical to say you're against the murderous occupation of Iraq but for the death penalty.

Just admit it, you pro-death folks are just bloodthirsty...

[rep the dems]

73. What are you talking about?

I was saying it's hypocritical to claim to be an opponent of the death penalty but then make exceptions for certain people. But it's not hypocritical to say that for certain cases the death penalty is necessary, and then say that this guy deserves the death penalty. It depends on which type of person the original poster claims to be.

Read some of my other posts on this thread. I DO oppose the death penalty. I never said that I also supported the execution of this criminal and I never will.

[ProudDad]

76. Guess I misunderstood the point in your post

:shrug:

[rep the dems]

81. The point is that it is possible to support the death penalty to a degree

but to say you oppose the death penalty and then support someone's execution IS hypocritical.

[ProudDad]

85. I think where we differ

is in two areas.

1) Who defines degree (or maybe we agree on that one)

2) Does the death penalty serve ANY positive purpose.

I come down on the side of an emphatic NO on the 2nd issue.

If the death penalty could make the victim and their family whole or if the death penalty could uplift our society rather than make it meaner or if the death penalty really did deter anyone from committing any crime, I'd be all for trying to devise a system where it could be tried.

But it doesn't do any of these things...


And it CAN'T be made fair.


So why bother?

[rep the dems]

87. Actually I agree with you.

The Death Penalty is an expensive, unfair, immoral way of dealing with crime. That's why I don't support it.

[LongTomH]

53. An eye for an eye and an eye for an eye, until...............

we all go blind!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

54. There are people for whom execution is appropriate. I don't trust the state to decide who.

The reason I oppose the death penalty is not that I do not think that there are no cases where it is appropriate, but that the only way to be sure you don't execute anyone you shouldn't is not to execute anyone at all. Any other standard will inevitably lead to people whose crimes weren't serious enough to justify it, or had mitigating factors, or who were just plain innocent, but had lousy lawyers, being executed, and I don't think that's an acceptable price.

I know nothing about the man you're talking about.
It may well be that he deserves to be executed.
Even so, I don't think he should be.

[HappyWeasel]

58. This seems to be a winning argument, actually.

Especially considering cases like this.

[Colobo]

59. There are innocent people that spend their lives in jail

Yes, the system is flawed, but we should not let criminals free just because we might make a mistake once in a while.

Coouey confessed kidnapping, raping and burying alive a 9 yr. old girl. If this bastard is not meritory of the death penalty, then nobody is.

[HappyWeasel]

61. life can be reversed ...death cannot.

[Colobo]

63. Tell that to Jessica Lunsford and her parents

[ProudDad]

64. Why are you so blood thirsty?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

68. Because the man in question raped and murdered a child?

I don't support his execution, but if there was an omniscient and perfectly just authority that could confirm his guilt and carry it out then I mght well do so (I don't know enough about the case to be surem but there are certainly criminals for whom I would).

[ProudDad]

80. I'm seriously interested

in your answer to this question.

Even if there were a perfectly just "authority", what good would it serve to kill this person?

[CTLawGuy]

90. policy-making based on raw emotion is a hallmark of conservative thinking

it's sad to see this out of liberals. We are supposed to be rational.

Raw emotion convinces people that we should bomb countries that did nothing to us, becuase it feels like "justice" for 9-11.

Raw emotion convinces people that taxation is "stealing" despite the fact that it pays for government services from which we all benefit.

Raw emotion tells people they have the right to condemn and jail two consenting adults because they have different kinds of sex than we do, and "that's just not right."

Raw emotion tells people that our liberties mean nothing becuase big bad Osama bin Laden is around the corner, waiting to blow us up, and if we don't give those liberties up, we are going to die.

Raw emotion tells people they have the right to commit murder of abortion doctors becuase in the twisted fundie world, those doctors are committing a holocaust of innocent unborn children.

and what other than raw emotion tells us we have the right to take a person's life judicially, even if they have committed a terrible crime?

Where does it end?
Should we burn him at the stake and cover it on Fox news?
Should we draw and quarter him in the town square?
Should we force him to watch as we torture his mother/loved ones and then kill him?

I hope you feel good about yourselves...

[mitchum]

72. Do not let the hysterical anti-DP advocates define you as the emotional one...

that is what they attempt to do when they trot out shopworn phrases like "blood thirsty"
In reality, they are the ones who are irrational. Classic projection on their part.

[ProudDad]

79. Why are YOU so blood thirsty?

What's your emotional hangup, friend... :shrug:

[CTLawGuy]

91. next are you going to call us

"bleeding heart liberals?"

Where should I have your bronze Reagan statue sent? :eyes:

[ProudDad]

67. According to Oliver Wendel Holmes

It's better for a 100 guilty to go free than to imprison one innocent person.

That's been the bottom line premise for the American "justice" system (seldom attained but still desired) since the beginning of the 20th Century...


You are absolutely right about one thing though, in a civilized society, nobody merits the death penalty.

[mitchum]

70. And according to John Stuart Mill, who was far more of a champion of liberal...

humanism than Holmes, capital punishment is just precisely because life is so precious.

[ProudDad]

84. Give me a break!

I quote a "Great Justice" and you counter with the ravings of a classic Libertarian.


No sale...


If by "humanist" you mean someone who serves as a model to the Cato Institute, you're pushing a rather bizarre definition of "humanism".

I prefer this model: http://www.secularhumanism.org/

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=clark_25_2

[ProudDad]

86. You make a good case for

the fact that this person is doubtless insane.

I fall down on the side of nobody is "deserving" of the death penalty...any more than this guy's victim was.

[Pushed To The Left]

74. Sounds like a normal reaction to me. I am technically anti-death penalty these days

but I'd love to bury that SOB alive myself! The reason I oppose capital punishment is that sometimes there are wrongful murder convictions, and I don't want innocent people to be executed. I would rather that the guilty rot in prison for life than for an innocent person to be executed.

[ProudDad]

83. Unfortunately, that's not the choice that's operative

"I would rather that the guilty rot in prison for life than for an innocent person to be executed."

The norm is that innocent people in great numbers have been executed or sentenced to LONG prison terms including life.

Most of the "guilty" are never caught...

Sounds to me like the system is broken.


I would ask you to view a great old movie, "Birdman of Alcatraz". Even in those hell holes, there's redemption. Imagine a system that fosters redemption rather then the one we have that blocks it at every opportunity and, for instance, in Tookie William's case, rewards redemption with death.

I don't want us to have to live in that kind of system any longer...

[Book Lover]

75. I say a pretty big hypocrite, actually

It seems to me the foundation for your anti-DP stance is pretty shaky if it can be swayed by the details of one horrific crime. If you are interesting in clarifying your stance one way or the other, I would suggest you really examine why you feel the DP is wrong. I don't think we who are completely resolute in our opposition to the DP need folks like you in our camp.

[ProudDad]

82. Amazing how much information one can find on DU

"Man Jailed for Life for Joint"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x388737

Would you trust this system with a man's life???

How much "justice" did this man get?

Don't be fooled, what happened to this guy is more the norm than the exception.

I'll never forget the quote I heard attributed to a California DA: "The only difference between the guilty and the innocent is that the innocent are a little harder to convict..."

[sendero]

93. When a dog contracts rabies..

... I feel sorry for the dog but he has to be put down.

This man has about as much in common with a human being as a rabid dog has with Fido. Putting him down is the only humane thing to do.

[mrgorth]

94. I am 100% in favor of the DP

but think it should be more rapidly carried out when sentenced. That said, I only think it should be inflicted on the worst criminals like the guy the OP mentions.

[noonwitch]

95. I think the death penalty is wrong, but I don't grieve for murderers who face it

I am glad I live in a state that doesn't have it. I don't want to be on a jury facing that issue, and it bothers me because it can't be righted after it's been done.

That said, this guy doesn't get my sympathy. I hope he prays for mercy from God, because he's probably not going to get any from the State of Florida.