Soldier Under Fire for Truck Decal

[erpowers]

A soldier from California is now under fire for putting a decal that says "Lord please forgive me for I have committed sins for our freedom". The soldier claimed that he put the decal on his truck not to insult other soldiers, but to express his Catholic belief that it was a sin to kill people in Iraq. Some other soldiers claim that killing someone on the battlefield is not a sin. There is a link to a short write up about the story, but you might get more from cnn.com in that have the a video version of the story on their website.

http://www.turnto23.com/news/11177861/detail.html?subid=22100581&qs=1;bp=t

[Fresh_Start]

1. Religion versus War

I wish this were to get national coverage and be discussed in every church in the country.

[gratuitous]

2. Why are other people upset?

He's not saying a word about what other people may or may not have done. And if a person truly believes that there's some invisible ink after "Thou shalt not kill" that absolves them of killing on a battlefield or in self defense, why should they be upset? Unless, of course, they know (or strongly suspect) deep in their heart of hearts that they have indeed committed a sin, and are resentful of someone else pointing it out?

[unpossibles]

9. for the same reason alcoholics needle their friends who stop drinking

or meat eaters verbally attack vegetarians: deep down they somewhat agree or at the very least feel a little guilty and attacked, even if they are not attacked.

[Hissyspit]

19. Bingo. n/t

[atreides1]

3. Hypocrite

"He said that if asked again, he would go back to Iraq if that's what it took to keep his family safe."

In order for forgiveness to work you have to be truly repentant of what you are asking forgiveness for! If this man is willing to go back to Iraq and commit the same sins over again then he's a hypocrite.

[crim son]

6. The beauty of Catholicism is that you can fuck up a thousand times

but still go to heaven - just repent sincerely on your deathbed. Forgiveness is both a blessing and a curse because ultimately it has no positive effect on society, only on the sinner. Hence, priestly pedophilia.

[Ian David]

12. It sounds like he means well, but he's an idiot if he thinks he's keeping his family safe. n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. The Iraq War is a sin, start to finish

It violates the Catholic doctrine of "just war" on several points.

[crim son]

5. If killing is against his religion then he should have picked

a different career. I have no sumpathy for this guy because he's a hypocrite.

[Dhalgren]

7. I don't think of him as being a hypocrite. Here's why.

He believes that his killing on the battlefield is a sin, but he is willfully sinning for what he also believes he should do (or must do - in his perspective); so he is sinning, knowingly, and asking his god to forgive him. He is not acting hypocritically, because he is not saying one thing and doing another, nor is he condemning others for actions that he himself commits. He is just saying, "Look, god, I am going to be sinning, because I feel like I need to. So I hope you can forgive me for this." Not hypocritical...

[crim son]

8. I completely disagree.

He joined the military, knowing there was a fair chance he was going to have to kill - that's like being anti-abortion yet having only unprotected sex with no intention of ever keeping the baby. Being an ex-Catholic, I understand how he has mentally justified himself, I just don't buy it. It's one of the reasons I'm an ex -Catholic: insincere repentance leads to a host of fresh evils.

You really believe that just because he doesn't blame somebody else, and because he's asked for forgiveness he's off the moral hook? It makes no sense to me, none at all.

[Dhalgren]

13. No, I did not say he was "off" of any hook. I said that he was not being a hypocrite

You may feel he is being immoral or self-delusional, or whatever, I have no idea, and you may be right. What I am saying is that "hypocrisy" is a specific thing, and what this guy is expressing is not hypocrisy. Saying that I believe that "X" is a sin, but I feel, for whatever reason, that I must commit this sin, but I hope god will forgive me - this is not hypocrisy. That is all I am saying. I am neither defending this guy's actions, nor his beliefs; I'm just talking about words and what they mean and how they are used...

[crim son]

14. Okay, I get what you mean. However my claim that he's a

hypocrite has nothing to do with his bumper sticker. It has to do with choosing to be a warrior instead of, say, a pharmacist or teacher. I live by a very liberal but nonetheless rather rigid moral code: I left the Church when I realized that, for example, I was pro-choice, when I found that the Church has a strong bias against women (well-disguised, of course), and when I fully understood how forgiveness works in practice as opposed to in theory. Therefore, as a Catholic I could not have chosen to be a soldier. The man described very clearly knows that killing is a sin according to his moral code, yet he went into the killing profession. Some would argue that killing in war is not the same as the sin of "murder." However the fellow's bumper sticker indicates that he doesn't make the distinction and therefore I find him to be a hypocrite.

It's perfectly fine to agree to disagree on this one.

[Dhalgren]

15. I see what you are saying. And I agree that the guy has a grotesquely

adolescent understanding of his faith. I agree with you that he is being wholly disingenuous by asking for forgiveness for a sin he has placed himself into a position to be unable (within constraints) to not commit. The guy has a pretzel-like sense of morality. I can also see that if this guy were a true believer and actually was seeking forgiveness for a sin he felt compelled to commit, he would probably keep that private and give it more weight than a bumper-sticker on his pick-up. We do, at least, agree on this...

[Clark2008]

16. Maybe he felt he HAD to join the military - because, I don't know,

he wants to go to school or did go to school and found himself in so much debt (which the military pays off) afterwards.

Or he couldn't afford to go to school at all and wanted some sort of technical training to get a better job.

Back before Shrub, many people could serve military careers and never dream they'd have to actually figth war after war after war after war.

[crim son]

17. I don't know. in 1981 I was trying to decide what to do with my future.

I knew people who planned to join the military and I couldn't do it. At that time I was a serious Christian, determined to live by my principles. A military career was in direct opposition to those principles.

[GeorgeGist]

10. Not my freedom

[Ian David]

11. Why does the army hate Christians? n/t

[IndianaGreen]

18. The late Pope John Paul II declared the Iraq War an ungodly war

The Polish Pope even sent an emissary to Bush and Blair warning them that if they went into Iraq, they would do so without G-d.

[Apollo11]

20. Saddam Hussein was not a threat to Americans' Freedom

So it is wrong for anyone to claim that American soldiers are in Iraq to defend "our freedom".

As Barack Obama and John McCain have both admitted - soldiers lives are being "wasted" in Iraq.