I think those who condemn David Obey hurt the Democratic Party and the left!

[saracat]

The person who videoed Congressman Obey without permission ought to be held accountable. David Obey has been against the war since the beginning.He voted against the war and has done everything he could to stop it and now these Johnny come latelies (or certainly people not as involved as Obey) shout at him and demand he do things their way?? This is outrageous and disrespectful to one who is on their side! This eating of our own is the most serious of the problems facing our party structure and it has got to stop!
Why aren't these people sitting in McCain's office or a GOP congressional war supporters office? These are the same type who protested Obama who is also against the war.I am beginning to suspect they all may be GOP operatives making us look like idiots!

[DemKR]

1. Oh I guess we are just "idiot liberals"

[saracat]

3. No I think they are just "idiots." David Obey is a liberal!

[RetroLounge]

7. What do you mean "we"?

:shrug:

Try watching the video and doing a little research on Obey's record, newbie...

RL

[DemKR]

49. I'm not talking about his record

I'm talking about his rhetoric.

[MADem]

2. And that idiotic woman who is preaching to the choir is making a bundle now

She's going on the talking head shows, which pay a lovely appearance fee.

I agree with your post.

[atreides1]

5. Do you have a list

I'd like to know what shows she will appear on so that I can listen to what she has to say.


Thanks

[MADem]

11. She will be on Hardball in a few moments.

She was on the daytime news on MSNBC earlier today.

She doesn't seem to get it, frankly. She clearly had NO CLUE about Obey's stance on the war. She's pissed because her son joined the military, got PTSD, and got sent back to Iraq. And she's going to gripe at everyone, without even bothering to do any research, because she's mad.

It's a very unhelpful tactic.

[saracat]

6. Thanks.Thant makes me sick. And all the while she is trying to tear

down someone who is actually "doing" something about the war, while she flaps her stupid uninformed yap for money..

[AtomicKitten]

4. I think politicians should be able to make statements

... without DU feeling they need to choose up sides and start throwing rocks at each other.

[David Zephyr]

8. I am a liberal. I love David Obey. There are "idiot liberals" & there are smart ones.

David Obey can call me an "idiot liberal" anytime he feels like it.

David Obey is the real deal and a great progressive and I am proud of him.

There is such a thing as "idiot liberals". I've been one at times myself.

[saracat]

10. How very true that is Zephyr! I have been one too but I hate to see our smart one attacked by

idiots!

[David Zephyr]

40. With you 100%

:hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

9. They're not GOP operatives ....

.... they're on our side, too.

Their strategy is to put pressure on guys on our side to defund the war now. They do this, however, without insight or a sense of legislative and political reality. The woman on that tape, and David Obey, are two sides of the same coin, both with an identical goal.

That said, it seems to me they are woefully misguided in trying to pressure the David Obey's of the world. The David Obeys would do ANYTHING (and have ALREADY tried everything) to end this war. Instead, why are they NOT pressuring the Blue Dog Dems or even MORE appropriately, the REPUBLICS who are standing in the way of the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY?

No one is *wrong*. The woman, the videographer, and everyone promoting these actions are, however, in my opinion, WOEFULLY misguided.

[saracat]

13. That was my question.Why don't they sit in McCain's office? Or Lieberman?

And they may be "misguided" but their actions are detrimental and open to suspicion. It isn't like the GOP wouldn't infiltrate in this manner!

[lyonn]

19. Because the two you mentioned would give her a pat on the

head and soothing words for about 1 minute, that's if they were lucky and got to see them at all.

Obey obviously cares and spoke with the woman.

[MADem]

28. No, they'd call security and have them removed.

They're only bothering the antiwar reps. Real brave of them.....NOT.

[sandnsea]

23. Or the Blue Dog House Dems

who are blocking the way as well. We can't change the country beating up the people who are already on our side.

[MADem]

Without insight, and woefully misguided, indeed

What a kind way to put it!

It takes some serious guts to get in the faces of those who are diametrically opposed to your viewpoint. Apparently, though, they lack those guts. It's way easier to find someone who doesn't cross a T or dot an i the way you do, and gripe like mad over minor differences.

Frankly, I think they are cowardly. When they occupy Fat Denny Hastert's office, and chase his ass all over the Hill, then I will be impressed. When they do the same to Trent Lott and Bonehead on the other side of the Cap, well, maybe I'll revisit my view. But this weaselly harassment of proactive, antiwar Democrats is just sef-aggrandizement and a way of getting cheap press. And it is shameful. AND unhelpful!

[Stinky The Clown]

20. You're less politic than I ..... but I agree with you completely.

[MADem]

24. That woman is on HARDBALL now, and she just does not get it.

She's got "her" view, and she isn't going to let facts interfere with it. She plainly does not get how it works. I'm amazed that Murtha (she bugged him, too) had the patience to deal with her for an hour. She wasn't happy with him, either, apparently.

She's yelling about Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer, and saying they are using GOP talking points and hushing everyone up. She can't answer how the Dems get to 218 votes. She mumbled something about being a mother and mother's love can move mountains. Sheesh, she should have moved her ass down to the recruiter and read over her kid's contract before he signed up.

She's a idiot. A whining, stupid and clueless idiot.

[Stinky The Clown]

37. I think that Hairballz segement revealed a great deal about Tina .....

... first, I have to say that I think Tweety has been pretty consistently anti-war for a while now (yeah, yeah ... I know ...... early on ..... ). He was trying to be respectful of her and he was *clearly* trying to give her every benefit of the doubt and more importantly, of being a civilian.

But she showed she had nothing but her motherhood. Not to discount motherhood. But beyond passion and a clear personal stake, she had pretty much nothing.

Toward the end of the interview, it seems to me Tweety caught on that she was a tool of some other, larger group.

Again, a nice lady .... but truly sans a clue.

[MADem]

39. And the sad thing is, those of us who first, oppose this war, and second, know what we are talking

about and third, understand the process are "lumped in" with that dolt.

She has done a fine bit of harm -- we can only hope the guilt by association doesn't stick.

She should take her TV appearance fee checks and go home. She's 'not' helping!!!!

[sandnsea]

25. My bitch with the left for 4 years now

The far left keeps beating up the wrong damn people. Drives me bonkers.

[Tom Joad]

12. I respectfully disagree with your post. You do have the right to oppose democracy

it is within your 1st amendment rights.

[saracat]

16. And I have the right to oppose stupidity. It has been stated the woman didn't even know Obey's

position on the war! If this is true, why the F***k would she be protesting at his office and harassing him? This is beyond belief.I have zero respect for an idiot who can't do any due diligence(if this is true)

[MADem]

26. Yeah....DOWN with DEMOCRACY...UP with DICTATORSHIP...all Hail King George

People also have a "right" to be thick as a post if they so desire, but it's not something I'd recommend.

[Jcrowley]

14. Obey

was way out of line for starters. Just his abusive behavior in and of itself was appalling especially after hearing, not that he was listening, that this woman's son had been suicidal and continuing and in fact increasing his belligerent and demeaning tone.

His position was also really off kilter and if he has some clarity in his position he didn't show it in that meeting.


TR: There should be enough money already in the regular defense bills…

DO: (interrupting) Well there isn’t.

TR: … without continuing the funding for the war.

DO: There isn’t. There isn’t. That’s not the way it works. The money in the defense bill, it pays for a standing army, but it doesn’t pay for these recurring costs.

from Kucinich, I learned there was 70million in the pipeline already to fund the withdrawal

And in fact the Pentagon has far more than this 70 billion stashed away in any number of black budget programs.

TR: Well there’s an amendment to the supplemental that’s being proposed to fully fund the withdrawal of the troops

DO: That makes no sense. It doesn’t work that way. The language we have in the resolution ends the authority for the war, it makes it illegal to proceed with the war. You don’t have to defund something if the war doesn’t exist.

TR: Oh, I didn’t know that was in the supplemental (DO talking over her)

DO: That’s the problem, that’s the problem. (emphatic right arm gesturing) The liberal groups are jumping around without knowing what the hell is in the bill! You don’t have to cut off the funding for an activity that no longer is legal!

DO: We don’t have the votes! (he then opens right side of suit jacket) Do you see a magic wand in my pocket?

PP: No.

DO: How the hell are we gonna got the votes for it? We ain’t got the votes! We do have the votes if you guys quit screwin’ it up. We do have the votes to end the legal authority to end the war, that’s the same as defunding it. (at this point a female staffer approaches Rep. Obey and taps him on the arm)..

PP: Tell us how we can help.....

DO: I’m not going to debate it, you’ve got your facts wrong…

(DO then turns and walks away with his staffer to enter his office.)

TR: The last question is ‘how can we help’ so we can talk together?

Staffer: (escorting DO away from the scene)

DO: Good bye! Goodbye!.

And what the hell does this mean?

Obey: You don’t have to defund something if the war doesn’t exist.

Obey made no sense whatsoever and was lucky the people engaging him were as graceful as they were considering his tirade.

[saracat]

17. But it is okay for those people to be obnoxious to Obey? Please.

Why should he have be that diplomatic to people who are just WRONG? Hre is correct.We DON"T HAVE THE VOTES> what could those people NOT understand about that?

[Jcrowley]

21. First thing

go back and watch the video again. Keep in mind this is a mother whose son is getting sent for a third round in Iraq. Keep in my mind her son has already been determined to have PTSD and is suicidal. Now look at that video and tell me she is being obnoxious. She is being purposeful but in fact is rather less than assertive let alone obnoxious.

Add to that the fact that Obey's arguments just make no sense and I think he knows it.

My best guess is that he's simply developed a convenient rhetorical line to get rid of antiwar people who come up to pester him. As it is, he's just trying to use the "end the legal justification" for the war (illegal to begin with) as a bludgeon to make them shut up and go away.

The only way to stop this war is to defund it and most folks are coming around to that understanding. Now to get the votes it is up to us to act on that realization and force the Reps who are on the fence to change their vote. there are many more on the fence than we can know. after having been in Congress a month ago for a lobbying effort I assure you people are fed up with the constant obfuscation.

More funding means the war will continue and escalate. This is looting from our Treasury plain and simple and the furtherance of a War Crime. More funding means another rubber stamp on an illegal occupation. Obey needs to address not only defunding but many other issues that go with that funding (Permanent bases, oil contracts etc.).

C'mon it's way past time for everyone to take a strong stand on this. The Iraqi children are getting hammered and psychologically destroyed daily. We should all be out in the streets and in Congressional offices demanding an end to this genocide.

[MADem]

27. Do you know what these bozos are doing? Not just running around talking to people.

They're occupying offices, chanting the names of killed servicemembers, and they're doing this shit in the Democratic/ANTIWAR offices.

If they tried it in the GOP offices, they'd be dragged out by their hair, see?

Real courageous...NOT.

They're JERKS. They are interfering with the ability of our representatives who oppose this bloodbath to get on with the important work of finding 218 votes. They're going for cheap, easy and ignorance-based publicity.

Put on your pink tee shirt and get out there with them, hectoring the choir, if you think it's such an effective method. No one's stopping you. But don't expect anyone who gets how the system works to join you.

[Jcrowley]

45. Yes

the system is working beautifully isn't it?

And those who "get" how the system works and stand on the sidelines waiting for that system to "work" are helping alot aren't they?

Maybe if more people did don their pink shirts or whatever color they desire and got in the way of the machinery the Iraqi children wouldn't be getting blown to smithereens and US boys wouldn't be coming home in pieces.

I'm afraid it's those people who are expecting some solution from "the system", the very one that brought us to this point, who do not understand how it works. Not at all.

that woman was not going for any of the things you crassly state. She has a child who's life is in the balance. It's very real and urgent to her, see?

[MADem]

48. Answer this question--who wrote the war ending supplemental?

"Tina" apparently didn't know the answer to that one, either.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. At least in Minnesota, people ARE occupying the offices of Republicans

and if any Dems are not working to stop this war as soon as possible, shame, shame, shame on them, they deserve to have their offices occupied.

The war is THE issue. The money being wasted on it is money that is NOT going to meet this country's real needs.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. "Obey needs to ...... "

I'm going to start by saying that you and I agree on 99% of the solution ....... but ....

Look at Obey, specifically. If you just take the time to study his record (its quite lengthy, going back to 1969) you'll find that if you are personally anti war, you have no more passionate fellow traveler.

Now, assuming that what I just said is even 50% true, why are we attacking him and letting the Blue Dog (reluctant to defund) Dems off scott free? Why not grow a pair and go sit in the office of John Boner and make HIM go along with the DEMOCRATIC majority?

David Obey is NOT the one holding up the end of the war. If he had the votes, do you think for a MOMENT that he would vote one more dollar for it?

If that woman, and her handlers, want to do some REAL good, pressure those who OPPOSE ending the war, not the ones who are working to do just that.

[Jcrowley]

44. Actually

those being targeted are the ones who it is estimated can possibly convinced to shift into a position of defunding the war. There is no reason to go after many, if any, of the repubs because they are intransigent.

I'm well aware of Obey's record.

Now if you are putting this towards me:
Why not grow a pair and go sit in the office of John Boner and make HIM go along with the DEMOCRATIC majority?

You must admit you know nothing of what I do or have done. And in that case I would hope that wasn't pointed at me. If it was I would suggest you meet me in DC at the March on the Pentagon on the 17th and we'll have an ale together and compare notes on what we are doing.

I have just recently returned from lobbying Schumer and Clinton, speaking with their chiefs of staff along with several other NYers. Let me tell you these people are professional dodgers. They don't care. people are fed up with the obfuscations. Obey was out of line.

:hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

46. No, actually it was aimed at the group handling that woman ....

[saracat]

32. I did watch it. Obey does make sense. He starts out fine but loses it over the stupidity.

That women was clearly "only" interested in her own situation and didn't give a fig about anything else. Jeebus, David Obey sponnsored the bill that ended the Vietnam War and thy think they knom "MORE" and they think he has his "facts wrong". He was right .They are wrong and they are "Idiots".I am embarrassed that that women gets air time.

[MADem]

36. She gets a check, too, along with publicity...it's incredible. NT

[zulchzulu]

51. Maybe you missed the part where David Obey said about ending the war...

WE DON'T HAVE THE VOTES!

Besides, he made absolute sense if you were paying attention. I'm sorry for the mother's problems with her son, but she is picking on the wrong guy.

[zulchzulu]

50. The woman didn't even know he was sponsor of supplemental...

The dude thought that Congress can filibuster and pulled a couple snarky lines about how Bush would still have his job after the vote...

They are/were idiots...liberal or otherwise... they were picking on the WRONG PERSON! Did they even know who he was?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. I'm sick of the excuse "We don't have the votes"!

It's been the excuse for every lame, timid non-stand the Dems have taken over the past six years.

:banghead:

Don't the Dems know the first thing about tactics? You put out the proposal you really want, watch the Republicanites shoot it down, and then campaign like hell on the fact that you tried to do the right thing and the Republicanites wouldn't let you.

It's all a game to them, a game where there is no right or wrong, or if there is, all scruples can be sacrificed if your corporate donors give the word.

[Tom Joad]

15. "I am beginning to suspect they all may be...

"I am beginning to suspect they all may be GOP operatives making us look like idiots!"

You need no help from any party or group, you seem to be doing that for yourself quite well.

[saracat]

18. Really? Perhaps you would care to enlighten me on how these boneheads did anything

to help our party today? And exactly how did their ignorant actions work to end the war?

[Tom Joad]

41. Perhaps "helping the party" is not their goal, but they are determined to stop the war.

This party supported the bombing of Baghdad in 1998 under Clinton. This party supported the deadly sanctions that led to the deaths of thousands of Iraqis. This party is not perfect, so maybe it is a good thing that there is pressure on it, from the non-wealthy, from people who suffer from its inaction and complicity in this long war against the people of Iraq.

The Senate wants to "redefine" the mission of the troops... essentially giving the troops sent to Iraq with a new reason for being there... what should be made clear is that US troops should not be there at all. That the invasion was a crime against humanity (not a mere "mistake") US troops have no legitimate reason for being in Iraq.

I don't think support for any political party should be an end goal. At best, political parties are tools, but they must serve us, not the other way around.

[Sparkly]

42. So how's that working out -- the "stop the war" part? nt

[saracat]

43. And she is helping stop the war how? You may not support the Democratic Party but I do so proudly

and the Democratic Party is the ONLY hope we have of ending the war.Denigrating an anti war Democrat who is doing the best that can be done to work the structure to end the war is nOT the way to accomplish that goal.She is also flaunting her ignorance of the process nationwide and making liberals look stupid.Many will not realize that not all of us are ignorant of the process and will assume she is a representative of the liberals.I resent that she is causing all liberals to be tarred with the brush of stupidity.She didn't even bother to educate herself before appearing on Hardball.
And her uninformed opinion in no way is equal to David Obeys.It is really too bad she refuses to educate herself.

[sandnsea]

22. I'm listening to Tina on Hardball

Good god. She's talking to the wrong damn people. If Obey says he needs to get 218 votes, then help get them. She needs to go to those Democrats that need to be switched, not beat the hell out of the ones who are already on board.

[MADem]

29. There is no nice way to put it. The woman is STUPID.

And the simple fact that she can't answer how Pelosi gets to two eighteen, yet continues to blather on, tells us all we need to know about her. She's an 'idiot liberal.'

Thank Heaven most liberals aren't that stupid.

[sandnsea]

31. Well bless her heart

she's trying and I give her that.

[MADem]

34. Bless her heart, INDEED

An amusing riff on that way of looking at it: http://www.dixiebass.com/dixiebass/bless.htm

Someone once noted that a Southerner can get away with the most awful kind of insult just as long as it's prefaced with the words "Bless her heart" or "Bless his heart." As in, "Bless his heart, if they put his brain on the head of a pin, it'd roll around like a BB on a six-lane highway."

Or, "Bless her heart, she's so bucktoothed, she could eat an apple through a picket fence."

There are also the sneakier ones that I remember from tongue-clucking types of my childhood: "You know, it's amazing that even though she had that baby seven months after they got married, bless her heart, it weighed 10 pounds!"

As long as the heart is sufficiently blessed, the insult can't be all that bad, at least that's what my Great-aunt Tiny (bless her heart, she was anything but) used to say. I was thinking about this the other day when a friend was telling me about her new Northern friend who was upset because her toddler is just beginning to talk and he has a Southern accent. My friend, who is very kind and, bless her heart, cannot do a thing about those thighs of hers, so don't even start, was justifiably miffed about this.

After all, this woman had CHOSEN to move South a couple of years ago. "Can you believe it?" she said to my friend. "A child of mine is going to be taaaallllkkin' a-liiiike thiiiissss." I can think of far worse fates than speaking Southern for this adorable little boy, who, bless his heart, must surely be the East Coast king of mucus. I wish I'd been there. I would have said that shouldn't fret, because there is nothing so sweet or pleasing on the ear as a soft Southern drawl.....

[Stinky The Clown]

33. I'm not sure I'd go all the way to 'stupid' .......

I **would** go to 'misled' or 'deluded' or 'used'. I think she got hooked by the leftie nutters who are using her for their own purposes. I think she's earnest and sincere ...... and very naive.

[MADem]

35. Heheheh...bless her heart

See my post on "bless her heart" just upthread....

[Stinky The Clown]

38. Bless her heart, indeed .........

"East Coast King of Mucus":spray:

[zulchzulu]

47. It was a classic example of people who didn't do their homework first...

The woman had no idea that Obey was THE SPONSOR of the supplemental bill for funding for armor, hospitals, etc. as well as taking the authority away with the war resolution. The dude had no idea that Congress can't filibuster and added little to accosting Obey other than saying that Bush will still have his job after the resolution passes.

They were and are an embarrassment to the Stop The War movement. Period.

[JI7]

52. the difference between "idiot liberals" and liberals like Obey is

that Obey actually cares about stopping the war. the "idiot liberals" care more about being heard without any care as to what actually happens.

dumb asses. really, if you are going to go to lengths such as these fools at least get the basic info on what is going on.

[bluedog]

55. you can donate to Tinas web site

But when we out number the war lobbyist a thousand-to-one, we will have a department of peace instead of a war department. If you plan on coming to Washington DC, call me and join me to lobby for peace. When you take your summer break or vacation, come join me and let me show you the halls of congress belong to "We the People." If you can't come to DC, help me bring others by giving donations. If a hundred people pledge to contribute $25 a month, I will stay and teach others how to lobby for peace,
Please send Checks, Money Orders Payable to Grassroots America (A non-profit corporation) or cash:


Tina Richards
c/o
Institute Policy Studies
1112 16th St. NW, Ste 600
Washington DC, 20036


http://democracyrising.us/content/view/813/164/

[saracat]

56. And there we have it! Foget about it.I would rasther contribute to an Obey reelection fund.

I only contribute to those who can get things done and have a proven track record! Forgedataboutit!

[Rusty MacHenry]

57. Obey didn't hurt me about his actions

First off we don't have the votes and the Democratic lawmakers and myself both agree that sending troops into battle without body armor and such. Plus after watching the video multiple times I have come to the conclusion that Obey was annoyed by the woman and the dude. Obey was obiously in a hurry and the woman came up to him out of blue bugging him about this and thats why he snapped. Plus she obiously didn't know what she was talking about, I mean comeon she thought the House had the power to filibuster.

He dosen't bother me with his outburst.

[omega minimo]

58. HE shouted at HER

Is your OP based on any facts or is it uninformed opinion?

"This eating of our own is the most serious of the problems facing our party structure and it has got to stop!"

That's true. In this case, as many others on DU where the uninformed decide to pile on somebody who's on our side, the people attacking this woman look like they are "eating our own."

It's shameful the way people are attacking this person. And claiming she somehow "hurts" Democrats.

Her son has been on 2 tours in Iraq, has been ordered back for tour 3 and has been suicidal and writing about the terrors he's experienced in Iraq.

Many legislators are capable of carrying on business (yes, including in the hallways) without shouting insults at members of the public.

[saracat]

59. The woman is an uninformed idiot. I am sorry about her son. Obey is a hero who drafted legislation

that ended Vietnam , voted against the Iraq war, and is trying to "contructively " end this war. Obey is doing everything that can be done to end the war and said so.He doesn't need the criticism otr abuse from this woman, or her silly misinformed friend who apparently have no idea who Obey is or what he has done to end this war and provide for the soldiers, which amounts to a hell of a lot more than this Tina woman or her videptographer or friend have ever done.
And my OP is based on facts, unlike Tina's little display, which was vased on "misinformation" and makes liberals look stupid.David Obey was absolutely right, and should not have apologized.Stupid is as stupid does and it doesn't matter if you are liberal or conservative.Stupid is stupid. Tina should have done her due diligence.