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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:02 PM
Original message
Col. Rodriguez, part of the opposition to Chevez in the attempted Coup, says Chevez
Edited on Sun Mar-11-07 01:13 PM by rainy
was supporting guerrillas and is corrupt and a liar and etc..... I looked him up because I found out that someone I know knows his daughter who is living near them here in the states. I'm posting this because I have defended Chavez to many of my friends and family. Now, if I am in close to the daughter of someone who has first hand info that Chavez is not all the left thinks he is I want to be sure my facts are correct. What do you think of the following from www.militaresdemocraticos.com/articulos/en/20030201-01.html

Meanwhile, along the western border with Colombia, COL Julio Rodríguez Salas (class of 1974 and doctorate of law from France’s Sorbonne) tells me that Chávez provided safe haven for Colombia’s FARC guerrillas, an army of about 18,000 heavily armed rebel soldiers. “More than once I was ordered by the central government not to engage my brigade of mechanized troops against FARC guerrillas.”
Rodríguez’s mission was to defend a section of the western border with Colombia against guerrillas and narco-traffickers. He further notes that Chávez not only provided the guerrillas safe haven while he was stationed on the border, he also gave them weapons and financial aid through secret governmental accounts.

The chief liaison between Chávez and the FARC guerrillas was former interior minister Rodríguez Chacín, the nation’s top law-enforcement officer.

Dismayed that a sitting Latin American president could be involved with the FARC, I ask COL Rodríguez about Chávez’s motivation.
He says that “Chávez wants to create an independent Bolivarian state along Venezuela’s western border with Colombia.”
I immediately recall that one of the FARC’s objectives in Colombia was to establish a separate independent country.
Former Colombian president Andrés Pastrana had granted the narco guerrillas a safe haven the size of Rhode Island while negotiating a peace agreement, a gesture that proved to be absurd. Narco-trafficking is a multi-billion dollar business, not a leftist-driven revolution as some journalists labeled it. Since the recent inauguration of president Álvaro Uribe Vélez, Colombia’s military has taken back the area, pushing the FARC eastward toward and into the impenetrable jungles of Venezuela and Brazil.

I ask COL Rodríguez if the U.S. government is aware of Chávez’s relationship with the FARC. He says that BG Nestor González-González (a former army field commander on the border with Colombia) publicly called Chávez a traitor by permitting the FARC to operate in Venezuela. Gonzáles was transferred from his command post because his troops engaged in combat with Colombian rebels on Venezuelan turf. Proof of Chávez’s ties with the FARC was hand-delivered by BG Marcos Ferreira (chief of national identification) to the U.S. Embassy in Caracas, but to Rodriguez’s knowledge, nothing has come of it.

Understandably, Washington is too preoccupied with the Middle East and its war on terrorism to focus on the Latin American continent that many pundits describe as tilting more and more to the left with the election of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (Lula) in Brazil and former army colonel Lucio Gutiérrez in Ecuador, who in January 2000, like Chávez, led a coup to oust then-president Jamil Mahuad.

On 11 Apr 2002, upward of a half-million people marched on the presidential palace of Miraflores and demanded that Chávez resign. When Chávez’s Bolivarian Circle snipers fired on the crowd from rooftops (some were caught on TV), killing 19 demonstrators and wounding an estimated hundreds more, the military withdrew its support of the president, and Chávez succumbed to the opposition leaders, once again demonstrating that the fate of the government depends on what the Army does. A Stratfor intelligence report noted that Chávez “surrendered because he feared for his life. He later justified his actions by saying he had no choice; he didn’t have the firepower on hand to beat back his foes.”

Chávez was whisked off to the Caribbean island naval base of La Orchila, where COL Rodríguez, acting as the opposition’s negotiator, said that he witnessed the president write his resignation in his own handwriting, an act that Chávez since has denied. He further states that the president cried in the presence of Cardinal Ignacio Valazco, asking to be taken to Cuba. A small jet was standing by, but when the pilots saw two helicopters approaching the tarmac (which turned out to be medical choppers), they thought they were pro-Chávez forces and fled before the then ex-president could be flown to Cuba.

Two days after Chávez was removed from office by what the press described as a “48- hour coup” — in which the U.S. said it played no role — Pedro Carmona Estanga, the 60-year-old head of Venezuela’s federation of chambers of commerce and industry Fedecamaras, who had been installed as interim president— made a series of dire political errors that led to the entrance of the 3rd Army Division and the Paratrooper Regiment, commanded by generals loyal to the president. Chávez was reinstated as president and within days made sweeping changes at all levels of military command, replacing more than 200 top-level officers with his handpicked cohorts, many in-experienced junior officers — further adding to the destruction of the institutional armed forces. Since then, COL Rodríguez has moved his family to the safety of the U.S., and Chávez’s people have searched his home on seven separate occasions looking for the handwritten resignation that is safely secured elsewhere.

COL Rodríguez, who has known the president since they were cadets at the military academy, is quick to point out that “from the beginning, Chávez has been manipulative, a liar, unscrupulous, and undemocratic.” He warns that the last graduating class of the military academy had several Chávez plants, as are some of the professors. Rodríguez further asserts that Chávez is enriching himself by, among other things, selling oil below market to Cuba, which Castro then sells in the open market and splits the spread with the Venezuelan president. “All this will come out when Chávez falls,” Rodríguez says.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why is this not attributed to it's author?
Every word of this is lifted directly from an anti-Chavez website. There isn't an unbiased word in it. What is your purpose in posting it here, especially in doing so as if it were your own words?
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'm posting this because someone close to me knows the col. Rodriquez's
family very well and I want to know the truth. The Col. claims to have known Chavez since training in the military. Now his family is in a close circle to my family. Very close. I would not like to have my facts wrong if this ever comes up in conversation. I'm digging to find out about Julio Rodriquez. I have googled him and can't get any info except what I posted.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Then here's how to improve the post
First of all, link to the original article. It reads as if you wrote it yourself, which is disingenuous at best.

Secondly, doesn't the fact that nothing comes back when you Google this guy tell you something? Every word of this could be completely made up, there is no independent documentation. In fact, most of the article doesn't even attempt to present anything more than the admittedly biased opinion of the author, stated as if it were fact. It's an obvious hit piece, and visiting the website from which it originates confirms that is it's intent.

I appreciate you seeking information, but this is definitely not the way to go about it.
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I was just hoping my DU family could be supportive and possibly knowledgable
about this guy.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Rainy this comes from a clearly anti-Chavez, propaganda based website.
I know the Republicans want to demonize Chavez and steal Venezuela's oil?

What's your reason for posting this disinformation?
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The col's daughter is on my daughter's volleyball team. It worries me if
a conversation ever comes up. I am probably the only liberal in their world and I am concerned about where this could go.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. That link did''nt work for me
And thanks for that story, although I admit i think it is just that a story, of which there are I am sure many created and not. And that is the problem for us who can only here it from others...Who do you believe and who do you think is telling the truth.
But a few things bother me about it. First no mention of the protest that took to the streets to bring Chavez back, as if it never happened.
Secondly the fact that they took refuge in the States lends credence to the suspicion that there was a relationship with the CIA and US government.
The one thing I do know about this is the level of involvement the US government has in stirring up trouble in South America. We even have a schoo...The School Of the Americas...spicificaly for training insurgents to destabilize governments that do not play ball with us.
So for now my doubt is about us not Chavez.
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The link should work now I fixed it. I'm just very concerned about conversations
that will come up. I am know for my activism. I'm not very quiet about my beliefs. I have always leaned to side with Chevez, geeze he reads Chomsky for heaven's sakes, must be very bright, not like our dem bulb. I would just like to know about the Col. and i can't find any info except this. He is the father of my daughter's teammate. Complicated. I guess I'll just have to walk away from any conversations as not to stir up conflict when it should be about the girls and their games not us parents and our political views.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Always a good idea to leave the girls out of it
And just let them enjoy there game and youth while they have it.
They will enter this crazy world soon enough.
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thats exactally what I think. Sure hope this doesn't come up. I'll just have to
walk away.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. I would recommend....
1. Put this OP tripe in quotes, and tell us where it comes from.

2. Do a thorough study of the information/opinion at www.venezuelanalysis.com, then re-read your OP.

3. Go to Axisoflogic.com, order a DVD of "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised," and watch it. It documents some of the events that the OP refers to, but from a different point of view--from the point of view of an Irish film crew who happened to be in Miraflores Palace when the coup attempt occurred. The Irish film crew, among other things, shows how the charge that Chavista police fired on opposition demonstrators was concocted by the corporate TV station (RCTV) which actively colluded with the coup attempt, and it also documents probably the main reason the coup failed--Venezuelans' devotion to Constitutional government, a consequence of the adult literacy classes fostered by the Chavez government. Everybody had read the Constitution. (I wish that were true here.)

4. Google Colombia and rightwing paramilitary scandals. Huge scandal right now in Colombia about drug trafficking, torture and murder by rightwing paramilitaries (including a plot to assassinate Hugo Chavez--recently uncovered).

Frankly, I wouldn't want my daughter to be associating with anyone connected to the rightwing in Venezuela. It's a difficult issue, I know, with children, re their friendships and associations. But where there's smoke, there's fire. If this child's father is connected to fascist thugs, into drug trafficking and murder of peasants and leftists, and overthrowing democratic government, is he a safe person for your daughter to be around? And what of other lawless rightwing operatives who might be meeting with him? I would be super-cautious about my child's safety in such company. And I wouldn't say one word about my political beliefs in their hearing. The Bush Junta and their operatives in South America are very dangerous people. We have suffered a fascist coup here, don't you realize? The Bushites are spying on everyone. They just fired a dozen federal attorneys for political reasons. They still hold the reins of power and have asserted extra-legal and unconstitutional powers over all of us. They are guilty of what they accuse Chavez of (so typical of them). You are not free to speak your mind. You could lose your job or suffer other consequences. And if these Venezuelans were permitted into this country by Bush-controlled immigration authorities, you should presume that they are well-connected within the Bush Junta, and not to be trusted.
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thank you so much. This is what I was looking for. Sometimes I doubt myself
as I feel alone in a neighborhood, city, state, family of republicans. I have some friends that have CIA and Economic hit men for family members. I needed to hear with good references that I should be careful about casually discussing this with parents of the team players.
You have been so helpful and I will do as you mentioned and try to watch "The Revolution Will not Be Televised."
Thanks again!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. You're welcome! It's not often that I would advise an American not to speak
her/his mind. But these circumstances warrant it. There is also this very ill-intended Bush trip to South America, to take billion dollar checks (written against future US taxpayer dollars) to the Colombian military and associated paramilitaries. With Bush's appointment of John "death squad" Negroponte as Undersecretary of State for Latin America, we can be fairly sure that evil plans are underway. I don't think they will succeed, but Bush is a desperate man--very needful of presenting some "severed heads" to his Corporate Masters, so they will continue to prop up his regime, and keep him and Cheney out of jail. South America has been swept by a leftist (majorityist) revolution, with leftist governments elected in Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua, and huge leftist movements also in Peru, Paraguay and Mexico (likely to win future electoral victories). Hallmark of this movement is rejection of US/Global Corporate Predator interference in Latin America, and assertion of Latin American self-determination. This movement is deeply threatening to US-based corporations and banks. Bush was in South America to interfere with it as much as possible--to "divide and conquer"--and possibly to threaten a bloodbath and re-installation of fascist dictators if the South Americans don't knuckle under and agree to exploitative "free trade" (global free piracy) deals, and more US "anti-drug" terror (so lucrative to our prison-industrial, and military-industrial, complexes). Look at the mayhem in Iraq! That's what he thinks he can do to South America.

As I said, I don't think his bribes and threats will succeed, and it appears that the fascist forces in Latin America are in disrepute and quickly losing power all over the region. But it is a volatile time, and anyone with ties to the Bush Junta and its death squads should be avoided. It is rather a sad reality that, when democracy and justice succeed elsewhere, the dregs of the anti-democratic forces seek refuge in the U.S., and try to re-group here. The U.S. is often on the wrong side in these struggles, and, under the Bush Junta, is invariably on the wrong side. You wouldn't know it from our corporate media, but Hugo Chavez is a democratically elected president--in elections that are far, far more transparent than our own--and is very popular in Venezuela and throughout Latin America for the very reason that he represents the democratic aspirations of the vast majority of the people He is closely allied with other democratic leaders, and they are, together, for the first time in South America since the original Bolivarian revolution (against Spanish/Portuguese colonialism and slavery), asserting South American independence and true democracy. This is why I say that Bush will fail. But Bush can cause a lot of grief in the course of failing--as we know. And I would be very wary of these people you have described, as possibly being in league with Bushite fascist conspiracies, and with the worst elements in Latin American society and in Washington DC. If the honest professionals in the CIA are not safe from reprisals by the Bush Junta, who is safe? If the AG can fire federal prosecutors for not following Bushite political directives, who cannot be punished for their independent views? If the Bush Junta is spying on everybody, who cannot be blackmailed, or set up? And if they have eyes and ears everywhere, who is to say that casual conversation on a soccer field or at a school party is not being reported to some central database for future vetting and punishment?

These things should not be considered in the normal course of civic life in America. If we censor ourselves, all is lost. But in this particular circumstance, involving your child's welfare, and close proximity to possibly dangerous people, that is a private judgement that you must make, whether to argue politics with them, and whether you or your child should associate with them. We cannot have a democracy if we let ourselves be ruled by fear. But that doesn't mean we should be incautious in a circumstance such as you describe.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Don't copyright rules apply here?
I think we are limited to Four paragraphs copied from a link, unless permission is granted by author/publisher
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. This page from www.MilitaresDemocraticos.com is part of the civil disobedience struggle for freedom"
"This page from www.MilitaresDemocraticos.com is part of the civil disobedience struggle for freedom and democracy in Venezuela.
Spread the word: Copy and re-distribute this page!"

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. So, why would the col's daughter be an objective source or
data point?

I know many kids whose fathers enabled death squads in El Salvador. Their kids think they are great dads. :shrug:
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I wasn't thinking of the daughter as a source. I was simply concerned about
any discussion among the grown ups about this. I think they will see him as a hero and I will have to not say a word or else it could be tough for my daughter as the rest of the team will see this man as great. I can't find any more info about him except the OP I make here.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I get it. I have access to a circle like that, too.
:(

Do you read Spanish? How can we help?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. Reading the OP again (which is righwing crap)
my advice is to go get the film that was made about the failed coup. Two (Irish I think) filmmakers just happened to be on site and produced "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" while they were wondering if the right wingnuts would in fact bomb the presidential palace where they happened to be.

http://www.chavezthefilm.com/index_ex.htm

You have to watch it. The "demonstrators" were a freeper sized crowd of rich people trying to provoke violence and snipers hired by the right to try to frame Chavistas. Not half a million people, LOL! It's on tape. :shrug:

And this whole FARC argument is just plain silly heresay, the kind you would expect from that mierda.
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thanks so much for the info and the link. I can't wait to see this film!
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Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. militaresdemocraticos is a pro-coup orginization that had its heyday in 2002
They were a group of 132 ACTIVE officers that openly called for a coup and congregated in Plaza Francia/Altamira. They are no longer politically active and their members were discharged from the military. The Col in question was a member of this orginization they even have his profile:

http://www.militaresdemocraticos.com/militares/en/110.html

A couple are wanted for bombing the Spanish and Colombian consulates, making it look like it was the govt. at a time when Chavez was verbally attacking the Aznar and Pastrana govts over their intromisions, both are living the good life in the US as well (Posada Carriles is not the only one):

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10810FD385C0C7A8EDDA80894DC404482&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fE%2fExtradition

Here is their profiles:

http://www.militaresdemocraticos.com/militares/en/155.html
http://www.militaresdemocraticos.com/militares/en/135.html

I would recommend you keep a distance if you recognize these two, and never talk Ven politics with a Venezuela ex-pat.




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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. nice work, thanks!
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