Q: Would impeachment of Libby prevent his pardon?

[many a good man]

Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution gives the president "Power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

We know that impeachment applies to all officers of the executive branch. The Senate can also elect to ban the impeached person from ever holding public office again. Article II, Section 2 clearly states that an impeached officer CANNOT be granted a presidential pardon.

I wonder if it's possible to impeach Libby (and/or Cheney and/or Rove) and thereby prevent the possibility of a pardon?

[Horse with no Name]

1. I thought you could only impeach elected officials?

I may be wrong.:shrug:

[Xipe Totec]

2. No, you are absolutely correct. n/t

[many a good man]

3. ALL civil officers of the United States can be impeached

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

At the Federal level, the House of Representatives has the sole power of impeaching the President, Vice President and all other civil officers of the United States. Officials can be impeached for: "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." The United States Senate has the sole power to try all impeachments. The removal of impeached officials is automatic upon conviction in the Senate.

[ISUGRADIA]

4. President can pardon him for the convictions

He could not stop an Impeachment through pardon. That is the removal from office of an official.

[unblock]

5. the pardon power only protects against criminal liability

a pardon doesn't prevent removal from office.

but that doesn't mean much in libby's case.

[many a good man]

6. Make BushCo crimes stick

Yes, we can impeach the Veep and sub-Cabinet officials.

Yes, impeachment would prevent the president from pardoning his cronies.

Yes, they will actually have to pay for their crimes.

Yes, justice can be served, not thwarted.

I'm looking at Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld.

Investigate, Indict, Impeach!

[many a good man]

7. Add Gonazales

How could I forget him? Maybe start with him.

[ISUGRADIA]

8. President can still pardon anyone during impeachment

It would though make the case for impeachment stronger against the president.

[many a good man]

9. Not so sure

He'd have to do it before articles of impeachment are introduced, in all likelihood.

[ISUGRADIA]

11. I'd check the constitution for that because I think the

power is absolute, that is the president can pardon at any time, I've seen no restriction on his powers during the time of(his)impeachment. The only thing restricted is a president cannot prevent the impeachment of any civil officer.

But say Bush is impeached by the House and starts issuing pardons willy nilly. It would make conviction almost ensured as it would be further demonstration of abuse of powers.

There may be someway of going after pardoned individuals under some state's law. Tough but the opposite has been done i.e murder cases in the south where racist juries acquit but acquitted later brought up on federal civil rights law violations. Just finding the right state laws.

If I am missing a section of the constitution that is restrictive on the pardon power I'd be glad to see it.

[MonkeyFunk]

18. Not true at all

geez...

[MonkeyFunk]

10. no

He could still be pardoned for his criminal conviction. If he were impeached, the only constitutional remedy would be to remove from office - an office he's already resigned from.

[many a good man]

12. Can't pardon Libby if Libby gets impeached

This isn't about bush getting impeached.

The ONLY restriction on the president's power to pardon is that he can't pardon a civil officer who has been impeached. If we impeach Libby (or Cheney, or anyone) BEFORE bush can issue the pardon, then he can't be pardoned.

Article II, Section 2:

"The President shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."


Removal from office is not the only penalty for impeachment. A simple majority can vote to forbid the person who has been impeached from ever holding federal office again.

Article I, Section 3:

"Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial,. Judgment and Punishment, according to law."

The gray area occurs where the pardon is issued after articles of impeachment have been introduced but before conviction in the Senate.

Another gray is whether the Vice President will be forced to recuse himself from presiding over the trial in the Senate when it is his former Chief of Staff who is on trial. The Chief Justice only presides when it is the President who is being impeached.

This entire notion dovetails with John Dean's article from last December called Refocusing the Impeachment Movement on Administration Officials Below the President and Vice-President:
Why Not Have A Realistic Debate, with Charges that Could Actually Result in Convictions?
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20061215.html

[MonkeyFunk]

15. The President can't pardon the impeachment itself

but an impeachment wouldn't prevent the President from pardoning any CRIMINAL conviction.

So let's say, for fun, that they impeached Libby now (a pointless pursuit, but for the sake of argument, let's say they do.)

Bush could still pardon Libby's criminal convictions. One has nothing to do with the other.

Edit: I see you don't know anything about impeachment. The vice-President doesn't preside over an impeachment trial in the Senate.

[Generic Brad]

13. Libby no longer holds a position in the government

I don't think it is possible to impeach someone who has already resigned.

[w4rma]

14. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to impeach someone after they have resigned.

Conviction of impeachment carries other penalties apart from removal from office.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. only one other penalty

the inability to hold any other public office in the future.

[w4rma]

17. Yeah. Probably not worth the time, right now. (nt)

[Igel]

19. Because he's resigned,

he's no longer an officer. Congress impeaches officers.

Now, I guess the Congress could give itself authority to impeach anybody, but that would amount to a kind of dictatorship: I can imagine some rankled senator deciding to impeach his barber for giving him a bad haircut.

[SaveElmer]

20. Only the President, Vice-President and Federal judges...

Can be impeached...

[Claire Beth]

21. Libby has already resigned...

impeachment is a moot point.