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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:01 PM
Original message
Liberals Film Documentary Attacking Michael Moore
Edited on Mon Mar-12-07 04:09 PM by AtomicKitten
Buzzflash asks: "Now two liberals followed around Michael Moore making a movie attacking him. What is the fascination with anti-Michael Moore documentaries? Shouldn't you go film some social problems or something?"

Documentary 'Manufacturing Dissent' Turns Cameras on Michael Moore and Questions His Tactics

By CHRISTY LEMIRE

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- As documentary filmmakers, Debbie Melnyk and Rick Caine looked up to Michael Moore. Then they tried to do a documentary of their own about him - and ran into the same sort of resistance Moore himself famously faces in his own films.

The result is "Manufacturing Dissent," which turns the camera on the confrontational documentarian and examines some of his methods. Among their revelations in the movie, which had its world premiere Saturday night at the South by Southwest film festival: That Moore actually did speak with then-General Motors chairman Roger Smith, the evasive subject of his 1989 debut "Roger & Me," but chose to withhold that footage from the final cut.

The husband-and-wife directors spent over two years making the movie, which follows Moore on his college tour promoting 2004's "Fahrenheit 9/11." The film shows Melnyk repeatedly approaching Moore for an interview and being rejected; members of Moore's team also kick the couple out of the audience at one of his speeches, saying they weren't allowed to be shooting there.

* snip *

But after four months of unsuccessfully trying to sit down with Moore for an on-camera interview, they realized they needed to approach the subject from a different angle. They began looking at the process Moore employs in his films, and the deeper they dug, the more they began to question him.

* snip *

She and Caine also had trouble finding people to talk on camera about Moore, partly because potential interview subjects assumed they were creating a right-wing attack piece; as self-proclaimed left-wingers, they weren't.

Despite what they've learned, the directors still appreciate Moore.

"We're a bit disappointed and disillusioned with Michael," Melnyk said, "but we are still very grateful to him for putting documentaries out there in a major way that people can go to a DVD store and they're right up there alongside dramatic features."

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FILM_MANUFACTURING_DISSENT?SITE=TXMID&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT



"Manufacturing Dissent": Turning the lens on Michael Moore

Excerpts:

Michael Moore, who carries around controversy the way Paul Bunyan toted an ax, has won legions of fans for being a ball- cap-wearing fly in the ointment of Republican politics. For tweaking the documentary form. Even for making millions of dollars in the traditionally poverty-stricken genre of nonfiction film.

Many despise him for the same reasons.

The Toronto-based documentary filmmakers Rick Caine and Debbie Melnyk started out in the first camp. But during the course of making an unauthorized film about Moore, they wound up somewhere in between. In the process, their experience has added a twist to the long-running story of an abrasive social critic who has frequently been criticized from the right, but far less often, as is the case with Melnyk and Caine, from his own end of the political spectrum.

"What he's done for documentaries is amazing," said Melnyk, 48, a native of Toronto and a freelance TV producer, who even now expounds on the good she says Moore has done. "People go to see documentaries now and, as documentary makers, we're grateful."

But according to Caine, 46, an Ohio-born journalist and cameraman, the freewheeling persona cultivated by Moore, and the free-thinking rhetoric expounded by his friends and associates were not quite what they encountered when they decided to examine his work. "As investigative documentarists we always thought we could look at anything we wanted," Caine said. "But when we turned the cameras on one of the leading figures in our own industry, the people we wanted to talk to were like: 'What are you doing? Why are you throwing stones at the parade leader?'"

more http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/23/news/moore.php

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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. sure they're liberals
:eyes:

puh-lease.
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. You don't have to be a conservative
to think that Moore is an asshole, or that his methods are dishonest.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
65. riiiiight! just because YOU say so....
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Uh, might these filmmakers be ... PLANTS?
Are they REALLY "liberals" ... ???

If they're really liberals, why are they attacking Moore? I mean, seriously, WHY? He hasn't made the left look that "bad" by ANY stretch of the imagination.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Even worse, aren't they themselves
Edited on Mon Mar-12-07 04:32 PM by rocknation
guilty of, um, "manufacturing dissent"?

:shrug:
rocknation
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. So, who is going to make a film about the methods that they used
to make this thing?

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erpowers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. What Proof
I would like to know what proof they have that he actually interviewed Roger Smith. Maybe they are telling the truth, but I would like to see proof.
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Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. and this thing's airing at te SXSW festival
it's bad enough that clay aiken is playing there this year.
it's official austin. you're no longer able to claim your city is the indie hip epicenter of america.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Really? No longer hep? Pleeease: spread the word.
Having lived in Austin since 1970, I look for every opportunity to lessen the massive influx of population looking for the "next big thing" that's supposed to happen in Austin. Admittedly, this is reflexive, since I grew up in Florida where residents told would-be newcomers that alligators were under everyone's house and gun-runners were trying to export firearms fast as they could, lest the peninsula sink. I mean, hurricanes, mosquitoes, CSI Miami, Miami Vice and roaches that woke you in the night no longer would scare them. But, alas...
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Bah, I live in Austin and trust me when I say, it hasn't been hip for at least
10 years.

Just about everything that made Austin "weird" is long since gone. There are a few hold outs, but they are more the odd curiosity now than the standard.

Oh and the moniker of "live music capital of the world", another out right fib. If you love cover bands (cringe), then you are right on.

moron* when he was governor killed austin by death of a thousand cuts, then helmet head perry sealed the deal.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
39. I am sorry to hear that. As a former Texan, who left Dallas to go to
college in the East and never returned to live there, I am sad that Austin isn't what it was so cherished for: one of the bright, liberal spots in an otherwise so reflexively right wing state.

I guess I feel fortunate that things haven't really changed that much in my (now) home town of New Haven, where the rabble rousers have been around since oh, lemme see, 1638 (the founding of the New Haven Green), and we're still going strong...
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Epiphany4z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. liberals yaya
Yaya ...sounds like a non story for the most part..why even start a doc on moore unless they knew they where going to find some contraversy...I mean other than he is to far left blah blah blah..He wouldn't talk to us...waaa waaa..my guess is Micheal knows something about them that is not in this article...like maybe they are not really 2 good hearted liberals just looking to tell Michaels story
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sounds like they might have an agenda
but thanks for the heads up! It's important to know what's coming our way, good or bad.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. ain't that the truth?
It's important to know what's coming our way, good or bad.


If they are liberals, surely they can find better subject material.
If they are faux liberals, surely this will be used as ammunition.

Either way, I'm just the messenger.

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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Don't you think it's our responsibility
to keep our own house in order and correct our own when they are dishonest?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Sure- what is the F/911 lie Moore told that affects America and bothers you the most?
???
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Little things
Moore suggesting that Bin Laden used his "CIA training" to pull off 9/11 (is there any evidence of that at all?!), Moore not mentioning that he interviewed Roger whatever his name is, Moore making it seem like you can open a bank account and walk out with a gun the same day in Columbine, etc...
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. And
that's just off the top of my head.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Or someone elses head. Link?
n/t
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #32
70. Link? I saw the movies
Aside from the Roger interview, which I got from the OP.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. So where did you learn that Moore was "lying" about Bin Ladens's CIA connex?
Did your CIA sources tell you he was lying, or was it FOX "Saddam has WMDS" News who told you?
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. WOW you really didn't see the original did you?

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #43
67. good catch...
I didn't see ANY of those things in the movie...

but I HEARD alot of those things on rush and and FOX that have been PROVEN WRONG!
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. That is why he refuses to provide us with some links.
He knows that his link sources have a far, far, FAR greater record of putting out false info in their daily, 24/7 reporting than Moore could ever even think to dream of in his 3 movies.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. If true, those are little things. I doubt they even had much impact on anything. Link?
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 06:26 PM by Dr Fate
He said Bin Laden had CIA training? I dont remember that-but it is a fact-so I wouldnt doubt it if he said that.

He did meet with Roger? How will America survive?

He offended some NRA types by using arguably bad academia? Why does that upset you more than 24/7 news media that lied us into a war?

How is it even comparable on any scale to any other media source- enough to make an effort to "expose" him?

Compared to pretty much ANY other media source out there, Moore is Abe Lincoln when it comes to honesty.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. absolutely
I still wonder why this story is punctuated by calling these people "liberals" as if that underscores and validates going after Moore. I think Moore has been pretty straightforward about the parts of his documentary he embellished. He did some powerful truth-telling early on, and still suffers the stigma of that from apparently both sides of the aisle.
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I sort of agree
but I'm not sure if he has taken responsibility for his deceptiveness.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. I'm not sure Moore was deceptive- at least not in F/911.
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 06:27 PM by Dr Fate
All the debunking that the "Saddam has WMDs!!" Cable media & Right Wink bloggers worked so hard on was counter-debunked.

Remember Moore's "outrageous" claim that Bush was connected to the Saudis? That was supposed to be one of the big "lies"- but after the ports scandal, looks like he had a point.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
68. riiiiight! just because YOU say so....
please elaborate on his "deceptiveness"...

you have so far not produced a single PROOF...
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
66. riiiiight! We'll get back to ya...
and thanks for your "concern"...

isn't there some new bush* scandal you can spend you time on?!
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. Emailed Mike
I'll let you know if I hear back from anyone on his site. I am curious who they are to. I am a big Mike fan. We have watched him since his early stuff in fact if it wasn't for Mike I wouldn't be here. He had link to this site years ago on his.
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StinkyMcPinknose Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Here's their IMDB links
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. Since when does Moore HAVE to talk
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 10:30 AM by BoneDaddy
to anyone who calls themselves liberal? I am sorry is there some unwritten rule that I missed?

I am a liberal too. If I wanted to make a movie, does that mean I have a right to an audience with Tim Robbins just cause he is a liberal too?

They probably pissed him off and he wrote them off in turn.

EDIT: Not wanting to talk to these two people is not an indictment of guilt about anything.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. A better guess...
I'm sure Moore knows everybody in documentary film-making, and I'm sure these guys have a resume and a history. Moore probably sniffed them out for what they are (fake liberals with conservative funding) and refused to cooperate.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Maybe true too
I hope someone can track down their real motives.
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. How do you know
that they are "fake liberals with conservative funding?"
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. All I know is I want my Jessica Alba interview and I want it NOW. I too make documentaries.
And I am still waiting for Sean Penn & Tim Robbins to call too- some Liberals, huh?

It's my RIGHT dammit!!!
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. ROFLMAOGDNIUFDCGTHGHYSDGS!
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Super cali fragilistic expialidocious!!!
!!!!
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
57. Another Jessica Alba fan
oolala. My wife laughs at me everytime she comes on t.v. CAn't keep my eyes off of her. Hehe
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
60. Because...
it smacks of being a smear job. Why would two liberals go out and make a movie criticizing another liberal? You think it's an accident that Fox News is the way it is?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
53. Their history appears to be making documentaries on muckraking
and the seamier side of journalism. Maybe that's what Moore didn't like.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. I was crushed-crushed I tell you- when Jessica Alba refused to let me film & interview her.
And I was equally crushed when Wolf Blitzer & Brit Hume would not let me film & interview them.

And neither would Tim Robbins or George Clooney. Some Liberals they turned out to be.

And now I hear that Micheal Moore does not grant interviews from every Tom, Dick & Harry as well?

Ohhhh-it makes my blood BOIL!!!

;)
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
48. He's followed others, and filmed them, and then shown them in his documentary
So now someone has done it to him. Eh, I don't have a problem with it.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
79. That's right- but that does not mean he has to subject himself to it.
Edited on Fri Mar-16-07 12:33 PM by Dr Fate
Seriously- this like saying that Dan Rather should be scrutinized as much as or more so than Bush's Military record itself. It would be one thing if Moore was lying us into a war, or attacking regular Joe, poweless citizens.

I dont have a "problem" per se if someone wants to use Micheal Moore's method to go after Michael Moore- I just dont see why in the world they would want to.

"Liberal" Film-makers investigating OTHER Liberal film makers? Even after the "liberal media" already attacked Moore and never retracted the false charges they made about him?

What's the point?
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. Liberals my ass....
Sounds like an AEI or RNC production to me.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
49. We could maybe look them up on opensecrets.com
and see if they are or if they aren't.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. liberal, conservative, moderate, whatever. There is one sure way to get published and make money
and that's to make documentaries or write books bashing Dems and liberals. You don't even have to cite sources, use footnotes, or research actual facts.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
69. And you can join DU last October & post unsubstantiated claims!
and everybody is just supposed to sit back and take what you post without researching it!

Of course, we have all pretty much refuted those posts...
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. I dont understand why these "Liberals" didnt do a film on cable media, or Karl Rove.
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 03:09 PM by Dr Fate
Awww- poor babies- Moore wouldnt play along with your little "Moore is the real liar" expose?

So Moore wouldnt talk to you? So what? Did he lie in F/911 or not?
I'll bet Wolf Blitzer or Brit Hume wouldnt talk to you either- or even John Stewart or Colbert-or Brad Pitt or "Tomkat" for that matter- who the hell are you to demand interviews with anyone famous?

Seems like there are outlets that reach more people than Moore ever did- if you REALLY want to go after someone powerful-like cable news or Karl Rove, then do it.

I've never understood why people feel the need to "expose" Micheal Moore as "the real liar"- he is just some dude who puts out a movie every few years-you can take his facts and his opinions with as many grains of salt as you like- he never claimed not to have a specific agenda.

It's not like he is on TV 24/7 lying us into wars. Seems like these "Liberals" could have spent their time focusing on someone who actually harms America, as opposed to a P.T. Barnum style gadfly.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. Agreed
Moore is known for being a pretty private person and with good reason from all the death threats and other issues. Anyone who has seen his movies knows that he uses some gumshoe techniques that mamby pamby purists might find dubious.

That's why God made the middle finger...to display in their general direction.




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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. Actually the SHAME of it is tha early on Michael Moore Wasn't a private person early on.


Before he did Columbine i met him three different times and my folks met him back when he was doing his Labor newspaper back in Flint.

Back then he was open. He signed autographs that were a lot more personalized and even got a little sad when he couldn't help people with their problems in their jobs.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #45
74. But now he gets periodic death threats. I'll give him a pass on him wanting privacy. n/t
n/t
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
35. Trashing Moore's interview techniques misses the point of his movies
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 06:37 PM by zulchzulu
Sure, part of watching a Michael Moore movie is knowing that in order to get the good moment in the interview, he has to do certain things that may not pass off a purity test. Sure, he sets up people he interviews sometimes. So what! How do you think reporters (good ones) get a good lead or scoop. They don't go to church and light a candle and get twinked on the forehead with "the answer". Look at 60 Minutes or other news shows that reel the person that is the focus of the story in before they ask the hard questions.

What's really fun about seeing a Michael Moore movie is to see it in a packed theater first. It's a buzz. It's a communal experience where the mix of a tragic theme is laced with an interesting thread/storyline and sprinkled with humor to get the point across. Then, months later, you rent or buy the DVD and watch it. It's different. You might see how he set up a person to get the right moment on film, but that's his method.

Moore's movies are very engaging on repeated viewings and fun to watch with others who haven't seen his movies.

I may see this movie when it comes out on DVD and is free at the local library, but I'll wonder why all the effort went into trying to skewer Moore when so many other vastly more important issues demand serious filmmaking...


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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
37. One of the filmmakers (Caine) is from Ohio. I have a suggestion...
Perhaps his efforts could have gone better into looking at what happened in Ohio in 2004 during a certain election. Granted, that would involve real journalism...not following someone around and trying to do an unauthorized documentary about him...

Tell your friends to boycott this movie...if only on principal.


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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. No-no- as principled "Liberals"- they must expose Moore as "the real liar."
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 07:09 PM by Dr Fate
Just like when our ever-vigilant media did when he dared to suggest that Bush lied about 9/11, and had Saudi connections.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. I don't boycott films. Reminds me too much of the way Evangelicals operate.
And I'd rather be informed. If I watch them, and find them bogus, that's a different kettle of fish.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Maybe "boycott" isn't what I meant... just see sometime for free
I doubt the movie will make it to DVD and get bought/contributed to my local library, but that's how I'll see the film...if ever...

If people want to spend money on the film, be my guest...


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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
38. I hear they're already working on a sequel about Jon Stewart
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 06:54 PM by NoPasaran
Did you know that the Daily Show's correspondents are often in the studio itelf, standing in front of a green screen? Shocking!
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Stewart refused to let me film and interview him. What a fraud he must be.
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 07:12 PM by Dr Fate
I am a documentary maker too- and it is my birthright to have FULL access to ALL celebrities!!!

NOW!!!
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
42. So What? Michael Moore isn't a Liberal. He's Labor.

Michael Moore is an echo of all that remains of the Labor party in America.

People too poor to post subjects on Democratic Underground know what Moore is talking about. People too poor to have net access at home live his films better and more shocking than Moore can shoot any piece of film.

Documentary film makers and other artisans who live in expensive rent, hot job market cities, have always had something non-constructive to criticize about anyone who comes from middle America.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
44. Why couldn't liberals be questioning Michael Moore, despite what some here say?
Aren't we in the business of questioning? Moore is not sacrosanct.

Why would they're credibility be called into question just for daring to ask? If it looks like they're legit, and perhaps Michael is getting a bit big for his breeches, then so be it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. If he can dish it out, he should be able to take it.
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 10:03 PM by LittleClarkie
He's followed others. Now others are following him. Karmic boomerang, baby. I find it vaguely amusing.

Questioning is good.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
76. I agree-they can ask questions. But why should MM give them an audience?
Edited on Fri Mar-16-07 12:12 PM by Dr Fate
If they are talented, then they can make there name on their own-preferable from going after someone who HURTS America, w/o swinging from Michael Moore's nuts.

And dont I think it looks like they "look" legit at all- by virtue of their target & how they chose to spend their time & effort.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
50. Perhaps instead of condemning this out of hand
it would be prudent to actually watch the film and see if they seem to have a point before dismissing them. I would think that's what informed people do, as opposed to assuming these people aren't liberal, or that they have an agenda, or somesuch, sight unseen.

I tried looking up their giving history, to see if I could tell something from contributions. But they would seem to be operating out of Canada.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
52. Michael Moore was filming his own college tour in 2004....
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 10:06 PM by Eric J in MN
...for a possible movie.

He didn't want other filmmakers using his college tour for their own movie.

People can't necessariy bring video cameras into plays, musicals, concerts, etc., either.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
55. with all....
....the right-wing corporate/fascist filth, lies and deeds regurgitating daily in this country and around the world these two 'liberals' have to go after Mike....how many Mikes do we have?....how many need to be embarrassed publicly?....

....personally, I don't care how Mike creates his truthful documentaries as long as he keeps on making them....
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. If he's creating truthful documentaries, then there shouldn't be a problem
with how he's making them or seeing how he's making them.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #56
77. Sounds like you want Moore & Liberals to bring a knife to a gun fight.
Maybe we should wait for CNN, MSNBC & FOX news to let us go behind their scenes and film all of them before we let them do it to us?

Just a thought, strategy wise.

Besides- I disagree with your premise- what gives anyone a birthright -including other filmmakers- to barge in on a another film maker while he is also making a film?
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PhilipShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
58. Excellent -- Micheal Moore does not represent liberal values...
he has marxist followers; groupies that are openly anti-semitic, and frankly I think his films are of so "low quality" that they don't even qualify as art.

He basically worked for the Republican Party in 2000 -- when he was a Nader campaigner, knowing that he would split the Democratic party vote in swing states.

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Marxists? LOL.
I trust that was satire....;-)
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. I don't think it was satire... which is troubling...
Marxist followers? Yeesshh.... Karl Marx or maybe Groucho Marx...


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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #58
62. You have a source for any of those
accusations? I especially liked the one where "he basically worked for the Republican Party in 2000." And when did Moore CAMPAIGN for Nader? And are you SURE that Moore didn't issue a caveat in 2000 for Swing State voters?

Michael Moore represents MY liberal values. Among other things, he's pro-labor and has been fighting that battle for a LONG time AND he was against this war from the beginning (unlike most of our Democratic candidates).

I'll be waiting for those citations.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. Guilt by association - and unsubstantiated at that
Quite a familiar tactic...
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #58
75. Whenever someone asks why the poor are being exploited there's a fool calling them a Marxist


PhillipShore,


No one has Marxist followers anymore.


You sound like the drunk driver who blamed the unicorn who was driving for him.



And with that accusation you have just as much credibility.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Frank Sinatra once said "Anyone who sticks up for the little guy gets called a Red."
This was when he was campaigning for JFK...
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #58
78. Actually, Moore learned to fight for the poor from Catholic Sunday School, not Marx.
But Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and the DLC surely agree with some of what you say.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
64. As though there is no valid cause for dissent...
With this disaster of a presidency there really is no need to "manufacture" dissent. It's just that Moore was on to Bush well before the mainstream finally got it.

I'd be surprised if this docu actually makes a case for Moore having lied, spun or having omitted any pertinent facts.


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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-16-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
71. I would not doubt that Michael Moore is abrasive and an asshole
and maybe even his methods are questionable. But that does not change the fact that his movies are enlightening and bring to the forefront events that the main stream media refuses to report on. After watching Fahrenheit 911, I personally researched several facts in the movie that I found to be unbelievable. The facts presented were true and correct. In many ways that movie changed the way I now view the media and the world around me. For me personally, it was like someone took the blinders off.



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