Fox and CNN consultants who are "conservative" Democrats are making my head reel.

[madfloridian]

We just found out that Harold Ford is going to be a Fox talking head in addition to being the chairman of the DLC.

We already knew that James Carville and Paul Begala are talking heads at CNN. In fact James Carville used his job as consultant to say on air in public right after we won an election that Howard Dean should step down as chair and that Harold Ford should replace him.

Today we find out that the Doug Schoen who spoke out against Democrats who did not want to hold the debate on Fox News is himself a Fox News consultant. He was apparently on KCRW radio with Adam Green from MoveOn. I gather he did not say that he was a Fox conultant while he was criticizing Democrats.

Democrats, Fox News and the Internet

There is audio at the site.

Do you know who that Doug Schoen is? He is partnered with Mark Penn, one of Hillary's main advisors in the company that does the polling for Hillary's campaign.

Exit polling throughout the world

Nothing wrong with that of course. Heck, Carville works for her as well, and even implied the Clintons did not tell him to stop his attacks on Dean. Begala is the one of Vermont asshole comment fame....remember that? He said Howard Dean was an a**hole from Vermont.

Begala called Dean an a**hole from Vermont.

At least he said it privately and did not attack him on TV. :shrug:

Well, that was pretty rambling. So, what's my point. I guess my point is the media access some parts of our party have. It is quite amazing really.

I have watched even Keith Olbermann refer only to Clinton and Obama, leaving Edwards out altogether. That seems to be an MSNBC pattern.

I am also concerned that the ones who have that access are NOT saying the things most of us in the party want to hear. They are saying what they want to say, what they want to believe...on most every topic.

I will be curious how they use their access.

[Blue_In_AK]

1. Edwards isn't the only one getting left out...

Remember there's also Richardson, Biden, Dodd, Kucinich and maybe some others I've forgotten. The media is not our friend.

[madfloridian]

2. You are right....not even mentioned.

Only Obama and Clinton.

[madfloridian]

3. Schoen says Fox is not a right wing station. I guess money buys loyalty.

I found this partial transcript at MyDD.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/3/14/21121/6092

"Schoen: Well, A. They're not a right wing smear machine. B I don't think that tryingt to something media as part of partisan politics is a healthything to do. I wouldn't say that Air America couldn't sponsor debates. I think it woudl be great if Air America sponsored debates in the Republican Party as well as the Demcoratic PArty. I think this is a very very bonechilling trend. And I think given that Senator Harry Reid was one of those who was involved in embracing the idea, this has really becaome - as Roger Ailes said - a case of a left-wing pressure group trying to put pressure on the Democatic Party. One other thing. Roger Ailes, and I spoke to him, his comment about Obama and Osama was a joke about President Bush. It was not, in any effort, to smear, criticize, Senator Barack Obama. It was a joke that he made to a group of broadcast journalists who he thought would get a kick out of it given that, as you said, the president is not exactly all that popular and he hasn't after all found Osama Bin Laden. I think this is just MoveOn using this as an excuse to try to put pressure on the Democrats and on Fox to advance their narrow agenda.

Ok, I will say it. This is Mark Penn's partner in the company that does Hillary's polling.

He is another among many this week trying to make the "left" seem unimportant. That way, if they can marginalize us...they can more comfortably stay in Iraq while making the anti-war look "fringe."

[yourout]

6. "They're not a right wing smear machine"

They are an ULTRA right wing smear machine

[madfloridian]

23. Yep. They are.

:hi:

[Doctor_J]

4. I call them TV Dems

Smirk's approval among Dems in the populace is around 5%. His approval among TV Dems is about 80%. Turn off your TV. It broadcasts nothing but GOP propaganda.

[AtomicKitten]

5. good advice

Some folks keep feeding the need to get pissed off.

[WyLoochka]

15. I have been pissed off

every single day since November 2000. Don't "need" to be, as it is not at all healthy to be in this state of constant outrage.

I don't think I'll be able to get "unpissed" until a large portion of the Repuke Noise Machine that helped cheeney/kristol every step of the way is beaten into oblivion.

Afterall, the very purpose of the Repuke Noise Machine was to facilitate beating Democrats into oblivion. Fox has played the biggest part in that media plan.

The Democrats will lose voters by continuing to kiss Rupert Murdoch's, Roger Ailes', Brit Hume's and Chris Wallaces's etal asses.

They look like sniveling, groveling, pathetic, weak, feeble minded dopes stupidly bending over to co-operate in their own demise. This is not a sound plan to gain voters for Democrats as it plays right into the Fox narrative - "Dems are weak appeasers - they not only appease terrorists, they even try to appease us at Fox by agreeing to play the part of punching bag on our teevee shows! Hahaha what jerks they are."

I realize your snark was aimed at the OP, AK - but I found it belittling to me as well so I took the liberty of jumping in.

[AtomicKitten]

17. *

I realize your snark was aimed at the OP, AK - but I found it belittling to me as well so I took the liberty of jumping in.

My response was straightforward and was directed to precisely whom I responded to: TOJ.

Secondly, I was agreeing with TOJ's advice that if watching those posing as allegedly representative of the Democratic Party en masse was causing people discomfort, they have the power to turn it off. IMO that kind of aggravation isn't worth it. I consider that sound, helpful advice, and can only assume those that don't remove themselves from it choose to experience the aggravation and complain about it, both of which are their prerogative. How you got "belittling" out of that is beyond me.

I am always taken aback by people that read into my posts what they want to find and not what I said. But if berating me for a complete mischacterization of my post edified you in some way, I will be content to have been of service to you in that regard.

[WyLoochka]

21. I almost never turn the damn teevee on

I see enough of the clips online.

I just think the Democrats who appear on fox are making a terrible mistake and doing us - who put them in office - a gross disservice - and it really pisses me off.

[AtomicKitten]

22. I absolutely agree with that.

I particularly object to them being passed off as representing the party when they almost always are miles away from where mainstream Dems are.

It's really tough getting unvarnished news on TV. I'm not interested in the opinion of the people delivering the information. That's why I don't read blogs. I like to digest facts and come to my own conclusions.

I usually turn to the internet to peruse a plethora of sources to try to get to the truth on any given subject.

[JetCityLiberal]

19. "Some folks"

Who? Elaborate here....

[AtomicKitten]

20. *

Wow. If I had any idea my one-sentence reply would invoke such intense scrutiny, I wouldn't have bothered.

My response was in reference to the notion that there are some people in the world that keep going back for another cup of poison to situations (family, work, school, politics, etc.) that piss them off, choosing to repeat the process over and over again rather than changing the dynamics; as opposed to a pavlovian response, we thinking human beings have the capability of choosing our own adventures and changing the dynamics in our lives. There are certain personality types that choose to stay in a constant state of being pissed off by going back to the same well of provocation.

Just like I tell my friends that express a constant state of unhappiness with their mates, they have the power to change the dynamics that are making them so unhappy if they really want to; it is the "if they really want to" part that is for that person to decide.

'kay?

[madfloridian]

7. The MoveOn rep spoke of the Fox memos, Schoen did not think it was important.

First, here is one of the memos from Fox heads telling how to skew the events in Iraq. Here is one of the worst ones.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200407140002

The events in Iraq Tuesday are going to be the top story, unless and until something else (or worse) happens. Err on the side of doing too much Iraq rather than not enough. Do not fall into the easy trap of mourning the loss of US lives and asking out loud why are we there? The US is in Iraq to help a country brutalized for 30 years protect the gains made by Operation Iraqi Freedom and set it on the path to democracy. Some people in Iraq don't want that to happen. That is why American GIs are dying. And what we should remind our viewers (4/6/04).

If, as promised, the coalition decides to take Fallujah back by force, it will not be for lack of opportunities for the terrorists holed up there to negotiate. Let's not get lost in breast-beating about the sadness of the loss of life. They had a chance (4/22/04).

The continuing carnage in Iraq -- mostly the deaths of seven US troops in Sadr City -- is leaving the American military little choice but to punish perpetrators. When this happens, we should be ready to put in context the events that led to it. More than 600 US military dead, attacks on the UN headquarters last year, assassination of Iraqi officials who work with the coalition, the deaths of Spanish troops last fall, the outrage in Fallujah: whatever happens, it is richly deserved (4/4/04).

Ah, yes, Mr Schoen, Hillary advisor and pollster....those folks in Fallujah must have deserved to die and be exiled and lose their families and homes because they did not like our invading and bombing their country. What an ugly statement.

Don't tell the public what we are doing there, the killing that is going on....it will just worry them...what a message. Pathetic.


Here's what happened when Green brought these up to Schoen:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/3/14/21121/6092

Adam Green brought up Fox News exec John Moody's messaging memos to the news desk, a key lever Fox News uses to maintain message discipline. Here's Schoen's take:

"You know, I think that there are different perspectives on different networks. And one memo taken out of context does not to me decide that an organization is worthy of being excluded or shunned."

Media Matters examined 33 memos, which suggests Schoen doesn't know what he's talking about. Actually, it's worse than that. Schoen is a well-respected pollster in the Democratic Party, business partners of Hillary Clinton pollster Mark Penn. Doug Schoen is also a paid contributor to Fox News, a role he didn't disclose in this interview.

[Rusty MacHenry]

8. I'm not turning off CNN

Cause quite frankly it's a damn good news station that provides quality programming. And as for employing Carville and Begala as consulants on the network well that don't bother me as much as everyone else on the board is. There better then what MSNBC got in Bob Schrum or Faux in Harold Ford.

In my opinion the media is my friend, except Faux but they don't count cause there not news, there a RW propganda machine or as GOP voters like to call it..."entertainment".

[madfloridian]

9. I don't think I indicated turning off anything.

I have some questions, legit ones, about consultants who work for one candidate using their positions unwisely.

Apparently others don't care at all.

Carville spoke for the Clintons and Rahm when he attacked Dean on CNN. That was wrong.

[Rusty MacHenry]

10. I know you didn't advocate turning off TV

But TOJ did, thats who i'm replying to.

[Doctor_J]

11. CNN is the tiniest bit less biased than Fox

But their main faces are Blitzer, Zahn, Kurtz - all devoted friends of the Rove admin. If you want to watch, you're free to do so, but you should know that when you do you're helping feed the right-wing propaganda machine. If you really think they're a 'damn good news station", you're either very young or your standards are very low, or both.

[Rusty MacHenry]

18. I don't appreciate how your talking to me

First off i'm not feeding no RW propganda machine i'm watching the channel that is truely fair and balanced and it's the channel I like and trust and I don't have to be a dumb ass to say that. And although I am young (19 yrs old) I'm just as smart as you and know just as much politics as you. And I don't have low standards, just because I like CNN and i'm not obsessed with (I don't know) AAR I have low standards, that's rich. I have standards when it comes to my news and I know my news, I read all the newspapers: Pittsburgh-post gazette, New York Times, Wall Street Journal. I know good news when I see it.

I may be young but i'm not some moron that you picture me out to be.

[Q]

12. I'm not surprised to see...

...that many Democrats STILL haven't discovered that certain groups are trying to take over the Democratic party and make it a subsidiary of the GOP and international corporations.

Their plans remain the same: to neutralize/destroy any remaining liberal/progressive elements, fill the infrastructure of the party with corporate stooges and privatize/eliminate government services and social programs. What remains will look more like fascism than a democratic republic.

Many have been predicting this for years...and it's just now becoming transparent to the rank and file. It's easy to see the joining of far-right and 'conservative democrat' forces is bringing us a party that looks more and more like the Bush's GOP every day.

The American media...now just another corporate entity owned by a few wealthy individuals...has covered up the destruction of America's democracy and will share the spoils of a plundered treasury and the rape of the world's natural resources.

Is it too late to do anything about it? It's hard to say at this point. But you can HELP save our country by supporting and voting for liberals/progressives that put people before power and money.

[liberalmike27]

13. We all Know Now

That the whole of the media is conservative, FAUX being the leaders. We also know the Democratic Party is only slightly better than Republicans. It is like pulling teeth to even get them to do something they've got a huge mandate to do, like stopping the war.

Comedic pundits like Bill Maher makes fun of Democrats for not striking back, and upping the ante, but what he seems to fail to realize sometime is that Democrats are millionaires just like Republicans. Clearly they are better than Republicans, but it is a small distinction.

As long as we don't have a runoff in the presidential election, we'll be kept from making the true good choice for America. Both parties are conservative, and that makes it probable that anytime we have a third party it'll be left of Democrats, which will split the vote, and not just circumvent the will of the people, but will install exactly the opposite party the majority of us want. It is a sad quagmire our democracy is in.

[Q]

24. It hasn't always been a 'small distinction'...

....between Republicans and Democrats. But the party has lost more and more progressives to the dirty tricks and giant caches of campaign cash of the Neocons and the 'new' Democrats. It's difficult for any 'social' Democrat to compete against the special interests that back the campaigns of both 'conservative' Democrats and Republicans with a well-financed media and smear machine. Thus...The American People are represented less and less and have to helplessly watch as corporate owned machines without paper trails elect their leaders.

It took them nearly three decades...but the Neodems have finally taken over the Democratic party (with the help of the party's former enemies) and turned it into GOP II. No more party of the people. Just a party where candidates don't even bother promising an end to the corruption...just something slightly less evil than what the other side has to offer.

[wyldwolf]

26. hey! You changed a few words this time around

Same wheez, though.

[madfloridian]

14. And I forgot Shrum's comments about Edwards...Shrum is Carville's buddy.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1191

You know, the Our Brand is Crisis stuff. Trailer included.

[cyberpj]

16. DLC = Dems (just) Like Conservatives. DLC = Dems (who) Love Corporations. nt.

[wyldwolf]

25. isn't there someone you left off the list?