Are you in the "Any Dem but Hillary" camp?

[BeyondGeography]

Poll question: Are you in the "Any Dem but Hillary" camp?

This is obviously meant for those who have already selected a candidate other than Hillary and/or undecideds. The point is to get a sense of the depth of feeling on the matter, so Hillary supporters are asked not to vote but, of course, fire away all you want with your posts.

[marmar]

1. I'm in the ANY DEM camp....

Whatever my quibbles with Senator Clinton, I'd take her over any Repug they could trot out.

[Dr.Phool]

2. Even holy man Newt Gingrich?

:rofl:

[Laurab]

3. I chose the first but only for the Primary

after the Primary, it's any dem!

[BeyondGeography]

10. Agreed n/t

[MasterDarkNinja]

34. Agreed, I'd vote for Hillary in the general election, but not the primaries

I heard somewhere recently that something like 18% of democrats said that they would never vote for Hillary though. :(

[Warpy]

4. I will fight her tooth and nail in this state's primary

but if she ends up with the nom, I'll hold my nose and vote, shower after.

She'll need every vote she can get, too.

Look at the lineup on the right. :puke:

[DRoseDARs]

5. "Anyone but..." no; I'd prefer someone else, but I'll vote for whomever gets the Dem nomination...

...just like I did for Kerry/Edwards in '04. I wanted a Dean/Kucinich ticket last time around ... but that was never going to happen. ;)

[femmocrat]

6. A.B.C. (please!)

I just have a sense of dread that if she gets the nomination, we are going to look at another rethug for the next 4-8 years.

[Colobo]

7. If you want Rudy to win, support Hillary.

[ooga booga]

28. exactly

Hillary and Rudy both have vulnerabilities, but we're already seeing polls showing Rudy beating Hillary. He'll kill her in the Red States and hold all of them....which means Hillary loses.

[johncoby2]

8. I want another 4 years of a republican administration.

NOT.

I'm for the Dem that wins the primary.

[Morgana LaFey]

9. I don't have another candidate, but there's no chance for Hillary

None, nada. EVEN IF she apologized for her war vote, she couldn't become "my" candidate.

And it's definitely not because "There's .. something about (Hillary) that feels castrating, overbearing, and scary" :rofl:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3173938#3175760

[PresidentObama]

11. I see DU is spreading the lie that Hillary can't win.

Business as usual this beautiful Missouri morning.

[Bucky]

12. "Lie" = "an opinion I don't like"

But only if you're in a snitty mood.

[Clarkie1]

35. Anything is possible, but not everything is probable. nt

[Tellurian]

13. The new Rep candidate their touting as their possible nominee..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3178686&mesg_id=3178867

[Bucky]

14. "I'm okay with her" is an overstatement, but so is "guaranteed to lose"

There's sound Constitutional reasons why putting Mrs Clinton into the White House is a bad idea--principally that the whole idea is just a cute work-around the inconvenient principle of rotation in office. There's sound political reasons why she would be an inferior nominee. Democrats have a shot this coming election of a big sweep and a 1964-level voter realignment (if not a 1932-level realignment). However the best prospect Sen Clinton offers is a squeaker victory and another four years of effective personal attacks and a leader whose gut instinct is to split the difference between the predictable conservative and liberal positions on any given issue.

But to say anyone but Mike Gravel is guaranteed to lose is ignorant of both the political possibilities in 2008 and the excellent political skills of Hillary Clinton. Never, ever count this woman out.

[rhett o rick]

15. I don't like the choice of questions. I feel even if she wins, we loose.

Our fight is against Corporatism not Republicanism. The Republicans are the best tool for the Corporatists but not the only tools. I don't feel Sen Clinton supports the middle class. I feel if she wins the Corporatists win.

[mtnsnake]

16. I wonder if the same people who are afraid Hillary can't win are the same people

who are afraid we can't impeach Bush because we don't have the votes.

Afraid afraid afraid afraid...

[Jai4WKC08]

17. Apples and oranges

First off, it's not a matter of "fear" that causes some of us to think Hillary Clinton can't win. There are a number of very good reasons for what we believe:

1) We've seen plenty good solid polling data, from multiple sources, about her negatives.
3) We listen to our neighbors and co-workers to know how universally hated she is -- even by a LOT of Democrats.
3) Many of us remember just how much smear material the GOP amassed against the Clintons over many year. They will trot that stuff out again, and probably have twice as much to add. Plus, the noise machine is a lot more sophisticated than it was 15+ years ago when they first started going after Bill and Hillary.

The other major difference is the consequences of whether we are right or wrong.

That is, if those of us who oppose Clinton are successful in keeping her from getting the nomination, odds are another good Democrat will get it, with AT LEAST as good a chance of winning the general election. She will remain in the Senate, or maybe be the VP nominee. So it will not matter whether we are right or wrong. There's no great loss to the country either way.

Now, if we are wrong and she can win, but we fail in keeping her from the nomination, Clinton will be President. And while she's not my first choice, at least she's a Democrat.

But if we're right and we fail -- that is, Clinton wins the nomination but loses the general election -- we get 4-8 more years of a Republican in the White House. That's an unacceptable consequence. Why take the chance, when there are so many good candidates?

Impeachment is a completely different question. If we impeach Bush and Cheney, and are successful, I think everyone would agree that's a good thing. But if we impeach and the people who afraid of not getting enough votes turn out to be correct, the process still serves a valuable purpose. We will have put our cards on the table and let the American people see just what BushCo has been up to. Those who vote against impeachment will have to defend those votes when they run for re-election. So there's no down side for an impeachment attempt, so long as we are open and honest about what we're doing and why, and smart enough to get the right kind of media coverage with the right kind of framing.

[mtnsnake]

18. Your post is very reasonable

and well worth reading. Thanks.

[skipos]

19. Most polls show that Hillary doesn't do as well in general election matchups

as Edwards and Obama, especially considering how high her name recognition is. On the other side, Dame Rudy, who has equally as high name recognition, thumps her in most gen. elec. polls, and even polls in blue states like NJ and PA.

[Jack Rabbit]

20. I wouldn't go that far

There's always Lyndon LaRouche.

Seriously, I'm not going to say "I'll never vote for Hillary Clinton." But I'd rather not.

[Mass]

21. She is pretty low in my list, but I would support her if she is the nominee.

[Tellurian]

22. If Fred Thompson is the Republican nominee..

pictured here:



The only one that can beat him is Hillary!

Putting Obama out there is like sending a puppy out to fight a Pit Bull!

Read his resume up thread @ post #13

[philosophie_en_rose]

23. Oh hell no! I'm in the "Anyone but a Republican" camp.

None of the current Democratic candidates is worse than the beset of the GOP candidates.

These polls are idiotic and encourage people to vote like children.

If I don't get my way, I'm going to support the GOP! :nopity:

[BeyondGeography]

24. Way to misunderstand the poll

it's about the primaries, not the general. We'll all (or just about all) vote for her if she gets the nomination.

[MasonJar]

25. I have no first choice yet, and I do not think polls are valuable at this

point. I like Hillary and I will vote for her or whoever wins the Democratic nomination. You all choose and I will work. Another Republican administration and I am out of here. Enough is truly enough.

[election_2004]

26. None of the above

I won't vote for her under any circumstances, but I do believe she would win the presidency if she's the nominee. Of course, I think the same fate would apply to Edwards, Obama, Richardson, Gore, or Clark, as well.

Biden is the only Dem who I believe would have an uphill battle.

[IndianaGreen]

27. ABC (Anybody But Clinton) is the new ABB

LaRouche is not a Democrat. He is insane! Lieberman is not a Democrat. He is a traitor.

I think that Edwards, Kucinich, Obama, and Richardson are far better alternatives than Hillary.

[rhett o rick]

29. It isn't whether she can win or not, it's whether she is the right candidate.

I believe she represents corporate America and not the middle class.

[BlueIris]

30. Pretty much...yeah.

There's nothing left for me there, really. She's a black hole.

[robcon]

31. She's my first choice.

I think the poll was rigged to exclude those who support Clinton.

[BeyondGeography]

32. Those who support Clinton are asked not to vote

as the question obviously does not apply to them.

My thanks to those many Hillary supporters who understood and respected the concept.

[noamnety]

33. none of the above

anyone but a war supporter/war funder (which includes most of them).

Where's that option?

[ProudDad]

36. I'm in the any Dem is

inferior to Dennis Kucinich camp...

[Learn2Swim]

37. Proudly.

In fact, the only way I don't vote for a D is if she comes out. If she does, third party (protest) vote, here I come.

[Alexander]

38. Yes. I don't like her poll-tested positions, and I don't think she would win the GE.

She's a known commodity. She'd definitely be a step up from the current occupant, but I think most voters have made up their mind about her, and decided they don't like her.

I think we could get a far more liberal/anti-war candidate for next year, and what's more, I think such a candidate would win the general election as well. If I had to "settle" for HRC I would, but I don't feel that we Democrats should be forced into that kind of ultimatum.

For the first female president of the USA, I'd rather have Boxer, Sebelius, Napolitano or Pelosi than HRC.