Fox calls Hillary Clinton's Health Care Plan "Most substanive...." during debate

[Flabbergasted]

"Most in control of the details of Health care."

[mike_c]

1. well there you have it, and from an authoritative source, too....

:rofl:

[fooj]

2. The debate isn't even over yet.

Dodd is speaking NOW. There are a few more after him. Wow. Fox REALLY hearts Hillary, don't they?

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Yes they do

they have been working for her since oh Nov 8th, 2004, the day after the election

[blm]

6. I'd say working for her since 2003 - she was a good ally to Bush on his war decisions

and FOX made sure everyone knew that she and Bill were supportive of Bush's military strategies throughout 2003 AND 2004. So did CNN and MSNBC.

[Ninja Jordan]

3. She is authoritative on this issue.

[WCGreen]

9. Such knowledge as hers would best be left on the outside looking in...

I remember that whole debacle back in 93-94 when she had the best chance since LBJ to do some good for the average citizen and couldn't pull it off...

If she would have just folded Worker's Comp into the plan it would have passed...

It's wasn't Rush and the GOP that killed the health plan...

It was depending too much on placating the attorney's that did the plan in...

[karynnj]

11. She has a lot of experience

but Hillarycare was a mess which is why it never even came to a vote. Even the Democrats on the Senate Finance committee were extremely unhappy with it because it was a costly way to achieve the result. (This is a prestigous, but not glamorous committee that deal with things like the tax code and spending.) Hillary did very little consulting in 1993 with Senate or House experts on healthcare (like Kennedy, who had been involved in medicare and medicaid). She and Ira Magaziner at one point wouldn't even tell Congress who they spoke to. I assume that 6 years in the Senate would make her more sensitive on this.

At this point, I don't think she has her 2008 plan out.

[w4rma]

17. Yeah. I suppose so, considering how spectacularly she failed at this issue a decade ago. (nt)

[ruggerson]

4. I would imagine they're right for once

Hillary knows more about this issue than almost anyone.

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. Love makes the world go 'round:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/09/politics/main1600694

[Colobo]

8. It seems like Obama has performed poorly on this issue

Not a good thing.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Relax

It's March of 2007 and nobody gives a crap about the absence of specifics on a health care plan. In fact, the less specific, the better at this point (Hillary doesn't have a plan either). His plan, when it is released, will have its critics and its advocates like everyone else's, and then we'll go to the general election where health care will take a back seat to Iraq, the overall economy, the color of the candidate's clothing and whether his or her spouse is appealing.

Health care, important though it is, has never been a critical part of any presidential election. The only way it could be is if you propose something radical, like nationalization or scrapping all forms of government coverage, which neither party will risk. It is perhaps the dryest topic of all the major issues, and it is associated with dreariness (hospitals) and unhappiness (sickness and death). The media doesn't want to walk about and the general population really doesn't want to think about it. I am not advocating this approach, it's just the read that I have on our culture after watching Democrats go into the last 8 or 9 presidential elections with better ratings on health care than the Republicans and seeing them lose just about every time.

Where I would share your concern is if Obama appeared uninformed on the fundamentals, which would surprise me, but I didn't see the forum.

[Telly Savalas]

14. The reality you describe is the sort of thing that needs to change

If Obama is truly committed to a new kind of politics then he'll be trying to ensure that the focus of the campaign stays on issues that actually impact the daily lives of Americans. Of these, health care is the one where federal policy would have the most immediate significant influence.

A major reason our government has been doing such a shitty job in the last few decades is that "dry issues" like health care, the environment, energy policy, and transportation take a back seat to distractionary bullshit. In his last book and in his speeches, Obama seems to offer a promise to change this. If he is to fulfill this promise, then he needs to start laying out some concrete plans. Anybody can make vague promises to improve our health care system. Such rhetoric is the "same old same old" politics which Obama says he'll move beyond.

I know it's early, but Edwards already has a concrete plan laid out.

[BeyondGeography]

15. Obama's focus will be on consensus building, that will be his answer to the "same old same old"

but how he intends to negotiate the private/public dichotomies that are forever stalling universal health care in this country is beyond me, not to mention the difficulties of building alliances with the right on an issue that has always been highly charged with partisanship.

I would urge him not to overpromise, as he did today by saying universal health care would be something he hopefully achieves by the end of his first term. Hillary said it would take two terms and I think she's much closer to the mark.

There's no doubting Obama's commitment to issues that affect everyday Americans, but he's only one man and the institutional barriers to change on this issue are gargantuan, so I would urge his supporters not to punish him if his plan seems more incremental than revolutionary. My larger (and admittedly cynical) point on health care is that Democrats continually stick their necks out with ambitious plans to improve the system and voters say we do a better job than the Republicans, but we've lost 7 of the last 10 presidential campaigns. I suspect Americans really don't believe dramatic improvement is possible because they know that private insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, the AMA, etc. have a much stronger hold on the system than the government. Also, a not insignificant number (those with satisfactory care currently) are uncomfortable with the prospect of fundamental change and therefore vulnerable to PR campaigns (which enrich the media) from the very forces that are opposed to universal care.

[Telly Savalas]

16. I get that Obama is about consensus building

That's a huge reason I'm leaning towards the guy, even though I'm sure a lot of his policy proposals will be a bit tepid for my tastes.

What I'm trying to get at is that the source of many of our nations woes lies in mundane details. So if we are to tackle the problems, we need to focus our attention on these details. This means that as part of Obama's commitment to introducing a new type of politics, he should mix in a bit more policy wonkery with his inspirational rhetoric. I'll acknowledge that a Larry King interview may not be the place to go into stuff the like the minutia of tax credits for public transit use, but at the very least the good Senator's campaign website could use some more specifics on what he'd try to implement if elected.

[BeyondGeography]

22. Agreed...now that his first bad week of the campaign

has been topped off with a lightweight performnce at the LV forum, he's getting serious about a health care plan, but it won't be done the conventional way:

<"Keep in mind that our campaign now is I think a little over eight weeks old," Obama said. He promised that a detailed plan would show up in the next couple of months, after he has a chance to talk to more people involved in the system to get their input.

<Obama spokesman Bill Burton said the discussion will begin April 3, when Obama plans to talk to New Hampshire hospital workers and other community members at a meeting co-sponsored by the Portsmouth Herald.

<"This is bigger than the Washington insiders — he wants to take this out across the country," Burton said.>

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/27/america/NA-ANL-US-Obama-Substance.php

What reassures me about Obama is that he gives every indication of being a serious person; writes his own books, consistently sponsors thoughtful legislation addressing a wide variety of issues, doesn't give pat answers to tough questions, etc.

They may have thought the, "Hi, I'm Barack," phase would need to take longer than it has. This is a very odd campaign, with people pushing for specifics in March the year prior to the election...Unprecedented, actually. With blogs, youtube, and a media environment where sober analysis takes a back seat to gotcha, candidates have to continually create a new narrative or they risk going stale and getting abused by the machine. By not giving the media something other than externals to focus on, Obama has opened himself up to the lightweight meme, when, in fact, he's always been a wonk at heart. I'm sure he'll regroup, and quickly.

On edit, Telly: Kojak had the best pilot program ever; The Marcus-Nelson Murders (1973). But you probably knew that already:

http://boxofficemojo.com/features/?id=1760&p=.htm

[rurallib]

12. If FuxNoise is for it, check it thoroughly.

[Gloria]

13. Did that hobnobbing with Murdoch pay off??

[ProudDad]

18. Rupert is gonna get his money's worth

with Ms. Clinton...

[Clarkie1]

19. Taken at face value, not a good sign for Camp Clinton. nt

[Bullet1987]

20. ...

It seems like Obama has performed poorly on this issue.

I have the total opposite opinion. The only ones that came out with a real plan were Edwards and Kucinich. Clinton was just the most well versed on the issue outside of everyone else (which is to be expected)...but even she didn't have a plan laid out. Everyone else obviously didn't have a plan, but there shouldn't be any worrying because of that. It's not like someone blundering a Presidential debate.

[Clarkie1]

21. I didn't watch it, honestly.

The differences in health care plans of the Democratic candidates isn't really much of an issue. It's Congress that makes the law, anyway, and all the candidates are for working toward a single-payer system.

[PVnRT]

23. Without context, that quote is pretty much meaningless

And, frankly, I'm not going to take any cues from Fox News about which Democrat has the best plan for anything.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

24. No surprise since Murdoch supports Hillary dlClinton

The question every progressive should be asking is why the owner of Faux News held a $1,000 a plate fundraiser for Hillary dlClinton. What about her does he like? Surely he doesn't back her because she is a great progressive. :rofl:

[Lone_Wolf]

25. It is also the most friendly to insurance companies...

Her plan certainly keeps them (very) profitable. We should be electing a President, not an insurance salesperson.