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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 08:32 PM
Original message
Hillary Clinton: Liberal Senator
Not war goddess. Not peace goddess. Not evil corporate pig. Not savior of the working class. Not Gaia. Not Lucifer. Not Jesus.

SENATOR. SENATOR. SENATOR.

And a liberal one besides.


~M
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. And I hope she continues to be a liberal Senator.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. *snort*
here, here.
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job777 Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Me too
Just stay in the senate, otherwise were in danger again.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bullshit. Check her voting record and her recent
statements, and THEN come back and tell us she's a "liberal" senator. She's nothing but a lying, deceptive, two-tongued, two-faced, war-mongering corporatist who's firmly entrenched in the pockets of the corporate establishment and who couldn't give two shits about anyone who isn't a bigwig corporate elitist. I haven't believed a word she's said for years now.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. She has one of the most liberal voting records - Obama is not to the left of her - but her
statements, while always liberal, are never at or to the left of what an average DU poster would say.

Her so called moving left is no more than being a little less cautious in her statements - it is not a case of her changing direction as the wind blows. She is no DK in her statements - but then DK is no DK - and has gone right a few times.

I have not come to a conclusion as to her view of corporate power - is she just practical and trying to get as much liberal progressive items passed as she thinks the corporations would allow, and if so is her view of what one can get by the corporations too narrow, or is she really middle left on most things - but I am pretty sure she is not a person that jumps when a corporate lobbyist says jump - the way most GOP are and the way many Dems are. She fought us tooth and nail in 93.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. The more people push and push HRC on us, the more
I despise her Corporate Loving Campaign. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Thanks HRC for giving us another Republican President on a platter ... all due to your (and Bill's) personal ambitions trump all, i.e., including the welfare of our Country. :grr:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Who does not have a "Corporate Loving Campaign"? n/t
n/t
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Agreed.
Especially if Thompson enters the race and wins the nomination. All he has to do is campaign from his pickup truck, turn on the Southern drawl and Hillary is toast!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Not BS. The Goddess of Peace ranks near the top as a progressive in the Senate
Ya gotta stay away from some of those comic books you've been reading about her online and get your info from the real sources like this one:

http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?member=HI1&search=selectScore&chamber=Senate&zip=


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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. Yep!
But the dragon-lady image is more important than her actual voting record for many here.

She'll make a formidable candidate and a great President, give the opportunity.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. Agree - she is near the top as a progressive in the Senate n/t
n/t
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Voting Record Says...
Voted for Iraq war (and recently said we should keep troops there permanently). Voted for both "Patriot" Acts. Fled from Feingold's censure resolution like a terrified puppy. Sole sponsor of a bill to criminalize flag burning. "Free" trade with China and lots of other low-wage countries. Voted for the first no-predatory-lender-left-behind bankruptcy bill in 2001.

And so forth.

Sorry, I'm not smeeling a Liberal here.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. keep troops there permanently - as training staff - is standard for over 100 countries - not a
"right wing position".

Brillant politics in stopping a Flag amendment that was rolling to passage by proposing a flag bill instead that could be delayed until the flag amendment emotion was gone, and then killed.

Read about her vote AGAINST CAFTA.

The vote in the Senate on the Bankruptcy bill was 83 to 15
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Any Links on 100 Countries?
Edited on Mon Mar-26-07 09:47 PM by MannyGoldstein
With regard to criminalizing flag burning, you might be correct - but I'm a disciple of Occam's razor, i.e., it is what it is.

She did vote against CAFTA - but also voted for MFN for China, and so forth. Mr. Clinton was also a huge supporter of "free" trade.

On bankruptcy - I'm not saying that she's to the right of most in the Senate - but could a Liberal vote for a bankruptcy bill written by credit card companies?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. links/data below for the 130 countries: lists by "mission" are secret but training always there
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm

Published on Thursday, January 15, 2004 by TomDispatch.com
America's Empire of Bases
by Chalmers Johnson


<snip> At Least Seven Hundred Foreign Bases

It's not easy to assess the size or exact value of our empire of bases. Official records on these subjects are misleading, although instructive. According to the Defense Department's annual "Base Structure Report" for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories. Pentagon bureaucrats calculate that it would require at least $113.2 billion to replace just the foreign bases -- surely far too low a figure but still larger than the gross domestic product of most countries -- and an estimated $591,519.8 million to replace all of them. The military high command deploys to our overseas bases some 253,288 uniformed personnel, plus an equal number of dependents and Department of Defense civilian officials, and employs an additional 44,446 locally hired foreigners. The Pentagon claims that these bases contain 44,870 barracks, hangars, hospitals, and other buildings, which it owns, and that it leases 4,844 more.

These numbers, although staggeringly large, do not begin to cover all the actual bases we occupy globally. The 2003 Base Status Report fails to mention, for instance, any garrisons in Kosovo -- even though it is the site of the huge Camp Bondsteel, built in 1999 and maintained ever since by Kellogg, Brown & Root. The Report similarly omits bases in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Qatar, and Uzbekistan, although the U.S. military has established colossal base structures throughout the so-called arc of instability in the two-and-a-half years since 9/11.

For Okinawa, the southernmost island of Japan, which has been an American military colony for the past 58 years, the report deceptively lists only one Marine base, Camp Butler, when in fact Okinawa "hosts" ten Marine Corps bases, including Marine Corps Air Station Futenma occupying 1,186 acres in the center of that modest-sized island's second largest city. (Manhattan's Central Park, by contrast, is only 843 acres.) The Pentagon similarly fails to note all of the $5-billion-worth of military and espionage installations in Britain, which have long been conveniently disguised as Royal Air Force bases. If there were an honest count, the actual size of our military empire would probably top 1,000 different bases in other people's countries, but no one -- possibly not even the Pentagon -- knows the exact number for sure, although it has been distinctly on the rise in recent years.<snip>

http://www.topsy.org/MilArWorld.html

* Base Guide from Military.com "Every U.S. military installation around the world is in our database." Scroll down for a small map of overseas bases.
* Bases for Coalition Operations during Operation Enduring Freedom
* MilitaryLiving.com lists maps that it publishes
* U.S. Air Force bases around the world From About.com (very few bases actually shown)
* U.S. Military Bases World Wide 2001-2003
* U.S. Strategic View: Interactive Map from MSNBC -- "The Secret Empire: The U.S. Military in the 21st Century"
* Jane's

From U.S. Dept. of Defense

* Base Structure Report (BSR) for fiscal year 2005; pdf file
* Worldwide Manpower Distribution by Geographic Area from U.S. Dept. of Defense; 9/04; pdf file. Access to U.S. Dept. of Defense publications from Library of Congress.

Web pages that aren't there anymore (U.S. military withdrew lists of military facilities available on the Web in 2002)
o Military installations around the world used to be listed at DefenseLINK (the U.S. Military's offical main site) by country That list was withdrawn from the Web. There used to be a cached copy at Google, but it's been withdrawn as well.
o A complete 1996 list used to be here at DefenseLINK (list was last updated 17 July 1998). Google cached copy has been withdrawn.

More Information and Information about Specific Bases

* U.S. Army Installations and Facilities Web Sites from Assistant Chief of Staff for Installation Management U.S. Army. Examples: Camp As Sayliyah and Camp Doha in Kuwait
* Where We Serve: Information about Defense Department Installations from U.S. Dept. of Defense; last updated 2/2001

Information from Global Security

Global Security provides military news and information on a continuous basis. Lists of U.S. military facilities around the world from Global Security.

Iraq GlobalSecurity maps and lists of U.S. bases in Iraq

Many (most?) U.S. bases have their own Web pages. Examples of Global Security info about bases (along with satellite imagery), and bases with their own Web pages:

Diego Garcia

* Global Security page; Diego Garcia page

Kosovo

* Camp Bondsteel -- Global Security page; Camp Bondsteel page
* Camp Monteith -- Global Security page; Camp Monteith page

Kyrgyzstan

* Kyrgyzstan facilities from Global Security

Kuwait

* Camp Doha -- Global Security page; Camp Doha page

Qatar

* U.S. military facilities in Qatar

Projection of American Power Worldwide

* National Defense Strategy of the United States of America U.S. Dept. of Defense, March 2005
* National Security Strategy of the United States of America from National Security Council (The White House) 2002
* Access to Offical Strategy, Posture and Commission Documents from The Defense Strategy Review Page of the Project on Defense Alternatives
* Quadrennial Defense Reviews for 2005
* Project for the New American Century
* U.S. Military Spending

Commentary

* From Suez to the Pacific US expands its presence across the globe. By Ewen MacAskill, diplomatic editor, The Guardian, 3/8/02
* Globalization of Politics: American Foreign Policy for a New Century, by James M. Lindsay and Ivo H. Daalder, Brookings Review, Winter 2003.


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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. If you'd take your hatred-blinders off for a minute
you'd know she OPPOSED a constitutional amendment against flag-burning.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. She Sponsored Legislation to Criminalize Flag Burning
Or did I read something incorrectly?
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seasat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Biden, Dodd, and Edwards all had similar votes.
All three voted for the IWR and Edwards was a cosponsor. All three voted for Patriot Act I. Biden and Dodd voted for Patriot act II (Edwards was not in the Senate but Obama was and voted for it). Biden and Edwards voted for the 2000 Bankruptcy bill. All voted for MFN status with China in 2000. Hillary isn't my first or even second choice but she voted similarly to the other Democratic senators who are running.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Doesn't Make Her A Liberal
Sadly, very few of today's Democrats are actually Democrats by any historical standard. Most are actually pretty far to the right.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Baby steps
We're now going through what the GOP had to go through from the New Deal until Raygun. The most conservative people that they could get elected were Ike, Nixon, and Ford who are flaming liberals compared to today's GOP (so is Barry Goldwater and he couldn't even get elected). Unfortunately we're going to have to deal with this until the country decides that it wants to let us have a second New Deal.

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Exactly! Our present Conservative Democrats used to call themselves Republicans. n/t
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Trying to criminalize flag burning is nothing more than having fascist tendencies
Anyone who bites the jingoism bait has very severe credibility problems when it comes to being progressive. I've heard the measly arguments that making this rarely performed act of dissent a federal crime was to head off a constitutional amendment...and that is merely an indication of how severe and tainted the respect for the First Amendment is viewed...

You fuck with the First Amendment... you'll never get my support...


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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. ...from NY. nt
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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. She's no Dennis Kucinich, but she's no Ben Nelson either!
If Hillary Clinton is the next president, the right wing will NOT be happy! And that's a good thing. Not my top pick, but still a good Democratic Senator.
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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Uh
I'd take over Mr. Kucinich anyday.


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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Apparently she's going to support Israel about 100%.
Other than that, she would probably be pretty dang liberal.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
26. Hillary Clinton's National Journal "liberal" ranking 70.2 compared to Durbin's 95.2, Kerry's 85.7
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
28. Hillary is a whore for corporate insterests. She's DLC. That;'s a clue
Hillary favors shipping good paying American jobs overseas -- http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html

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Meeker Morgan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. Of course she's a liberal ...
... didn't Saint Sean of Hannity tell us so? :evilgrin:
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Anyone to the left of Hitler is considered a liberal by Faux
and that would make Mussolini a liberal.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
31. LOL!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

*GASP PANT*


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


Clinton, liberal Senator, good joke

*Chuckle, Snort, Snicker*
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