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Kucinich: "Now we’ve not only given the president the money to continue the war but we’re planning.

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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:14 PM
Original message
Kucinich: "Now we’ve not only given the president the money to continue the war but we’re planning.
to give him money to keep the war going through the end of his term and into the next president’s term. What’s that about?"




Michael Shank: As one of the handful of Democrats that voted “No” on the Iraq supplemental bill, can you share the motivation for your decision?

Rep. Dennis Kucinich: It’s very simple: the bill kept the war going. I want to see this war end. I have created, with the help of people who have worked on security and peacekeeping missions for years, a plan to end the war. It’s embodied in H.R. 1234. It would end the U.S. occupation, close the bases, bring the troops home, establish a parallel process creating a peacekeeping and security force, reach out to the nations of the region and the international community for help – something we won’t get as long as we continue to occupy Iraq. That plan is much more expansive and in the course of this interview I’d be happy to go over it with you but in short, I oppose the resolution because it kept funding the war. And I say we need to end the war now. Not a year from now, not two years from now, not five or ten years from now, but now.


Shank: There has been some criticism of the supplemental’s timelines for withdrawal, i.e. that they are arbitrary. Why are timelines politically important, what message do they send?

Kucinich: I reject the idea of timelines. Now means now. If we set in motion a plan to end the occupation, close the bases, and bring the troops home, then we begin to establish the metrics of moving peacekeepers in and moving U.S. troops out. I’ve been told that such a plan would take 2-3 months to complete. But other than that, we have the capacity to get out. And I still advocate that.

Shank: And with the recent Senate vote that kept the timelines in the supplemental?

Kucinich: Let’s look at timelines and let’s look at the real budget. As we speak, the Senate said they want to create a timeline to end the war a year from now. The House advocated a timeline: by the end of August 2008. The budget that the House will pass this week contains $145 billion to keep the war going through the end of 2008 and another $50 billion to fund the war well into 2009.

Let’s talk about timelines in the context of funding because it’s funding that guides the timelines not the other way around. So now we’ve not only given the president the money to continue the war but we’re planning to give him money to keep the war going through the end of his term and into the next president’s term. What’s that about? Either we want to end the war or we don’t. If you’re for peace then you vote for peace and you vote to end the war. If you’re for peace then you can’t be voting to keep the war going and say that you are a peace advocate.


Shank: Many people feel that the November elections were a referendum on the Iraq war. If so, how have the Democrats performed in their response to that referendum?

Kucinich: Democrats were elected to bring an end to the war. Now if we had told the people in October to “vote Democrat and keep the war going to the end of President Bush’s term, vote Democrat we’ll fund the war through 2009, vote Democrat we’ll privatize Iraq’s oil,” I don’t think people would’ve voted Democrat. They would’ve said, “Well, there’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans.” I want there to be a difference. That’s why I proposed H.R. 1234, which says: end the war, bring the troops home now, get out of Iraq, stop the privatization of Iraq’s oil.

Shank: Critics say that Congress is micromanaging the war, that it is not Congress’s business, but rather the responsibility of the commander in chief. What in the U.S. constitution allows Congress to engage at this level?

Kucinich: President Bush has a strange understanding of the duties of his office. He’s not a king. He’s subject to the will of the people, as expressed through the Congress, as to whether or not a war is authorized and as to whether or not a war is funded. He can make the decisions once he gets the money. I’m saying we shouldn’t give him the money, period. We should not have even offered a bill. We should’ve told the president that we’re not going to fund it, period.

more


http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4116

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. go Dennis
he has guts!

Thank You Flabbergasted. :)
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Guts ?...hardly...
What guts does it take to pander to his left wing supporters...?

If he had guts he would have taken the same path as Keith Ellison and voted for the bill...thus actually making progress...

Instead...as is his usual pattern...he proposes solutions that have less than zero chance of passing, showing a continuing unwillingness to expend any political capital to actually make progress in any of these areas...


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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I don't see it that way. And frankly it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
He's not taking a position because its popular in any way. His position is nearly unique and actually makes a great deal of sense. We should get out of Iraq NOW. We'll lose some of our power pulling out NOW. But the longer we wait the more we're going to lose.

Also read clearly the article what he's saying is 100% correct.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It's popular with his constituency...
Which is who he is playing to here...

Kucinich knows damn well a bill requiring an immediate pullout would not pass..in fact would not even get a majority of Democratic votes most likely...yet this is what he insists on, and votes against a bill that actually makes progress toward the goal he professes to seek.

Did you see the lambasting Keith Ellison endured from the same people for his vote? He did the right thing and voted to make progress on ending the war. Kucinich unfortunately did not.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. He holds a position which is shared by 30% of the population.
He's not catering to it. He attracts it.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. His constituency...
Those that are supporting his Presidential candidacy are considerably more liberal than the rest of the country...

Had he had the guts to vote for the bill, you can bet he would have been lambasted as Keith Ellison was...apparently he was not willing to endure that...
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. He's not taking a position because it's popular.
Very one sided interpretation of Keith Ellison. He may have been catering to his business roots. He made a promise and then broke it. Of course they will be pissed.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Keith Ellison did the right thing...
Edited on Thu Mar-29-07 07:46 PM by SaveElmer
Kucinich did not...in fact I cannot think of any instance where Kucinich took a position that would piss off this constituency...with one exception...his recent embracing of Fox news...

Guess he has been let off the hook on that one!
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. We both know that you're speaking in cliches. nt
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Three more times "SaveElmer" jumps into a Kucinich thread

to trash Kucinich. I know one day recently he made 19 posts in Kucinich threads. Obsession is interesting.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. What would we be without debate? nt
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Seems like you have an obsession with what I do..
How weird...

And I guess you have been jumping over all those with their Hillary obsession I expect...

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Not at all. I got curious the other day when someone else

remarked about your continual presence in Kucinich threads so I did some research on your recent posts. Now I see you again in a Kucinich thread, with 3 posts, no less.

I don't generally read Hillary threads because I don't support her and I decided some time ago not to hassle her supporters. But if you're a Hillary supporter and want to be hassled, I suppose I could do it.

:shrug:

(That's a joke, son. A joke.)
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
43. Yet when someone does that in a Hillary thread they can't take it.
Hypocritical little babies.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
50. If Kucinich bashes Democrats, we should come and bash him
I didn't start bashing Kucinich until his recent dumber than a bag of hammers diatribes against Democrats regarding the Iraq Supplemental.

When there is a thread at DU that bashes most Democrats to support Kucinich and quotes him bashing other Democrats who want to end the war, you can bet I will be posting often to disagree and suggest that Kucinich go run for dog catcher and I will gladly contribute to that campaign.

However, his current run is a nuisance and is actually working against ending the war.

And I am just one person, but I am calling him on it. What a jerk he is.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Hell, it wouldn't even get out of Committee.
And he damn well knows it. He could say, as many other progressives, did: It's not what I want, I want the troops home now, but I understand that this is a step in the direction of getting them home, and drawing the war to a close". But no, Dennis has pander to his naive and idealistic base by puposefully distorting what Nancy Pelosi is doing. He's full of it.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Everyone has a decision to make on what they believe is right and true.
Kucinich is manipulating no one; Your interpretation of power is manipulating the truth.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. Exactly correct...nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. Why is that?
Do you think the war is popular and Americans want it to continue or is it just people in Congress who wish to continue this atrocity? Democrats in Congress want the killing to continue? Is that what you are saying or Democrats in Congress are unable to make hard choices? Why is it Democrats in Congress would not vote for an immediate end to this calamity? What possible justification is there for allowing it to continue?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Not to play devils advocate but I enjoy my debates with Elmer.
Thanks for the plug...
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. Wow...you are quite talented...
All the intolerant "progressive" buzzwords in one post...

Fact is, Kucinich panders with the best of them...he isn't called on it here because he is pandering to people like you...

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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Why take a hard road when you can just sit on your ass?
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martymar64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
40. You support continuing the war? Color me surprised!
Just like your pal Hillary.
If you like this war so much than here's a link for you.

http://www.goarmy.com/contact/how_to_join.jsp?hmref=cs
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
42. He has more guts that "Finger In The WInd" Hillary ever will.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
48. Some things you don't compromise on.
Ending this war is one of them.

Even if Dennis was a lone wolf howling to cut off funding, I applaud him for taking the correct and principled stand.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. when you're life is winding down, if you should be so lucky unlike the thousands more that will die
for this "strategy of compromise", it will be the stands not taken and the compromises made that you will regret. I think that Dennis and many of those with that support him understand this, and that's the difference.

Too few of the strategists and compromisers will never smell the shit and the blood or hear the screams of people that know they are dying for no reason at all.

All the rest is just bullshit.
:kick:


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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Into 2009... just in time for President Hillary to ask for a new authorization...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/15/clinton.troops/index.html


If elected president, Sen. Hillary Clinton said, she would likely keep some U.S. forces in Iraq in a supporting role after 2009 because America has "a remaining military as well as a political mission" that requires a presence there.

However, in an interview with The New York Times published Thursday, Clinton said the American troops would not play a role in trying to curb sectarian violence.

Rather, they would be positioned north of Baghdad to combat terrorists, support the Kurds, counter any Iranian moves into Iraq and provide logistical, air and training support to the Iraqi government "if the Iraqis ever get their act together."
________________

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Rusty MacHenry Donating Member (164 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well we don't have to worry about that
Cause the Democrats aren't stupid to do such a thing like this, so the point is moot. And if they do nominate her I don't know how she will go over with the anti-war crowd with her pro-war views.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. It's the funders that matter... But god, i hope your right...
we will not let this warmonger take up residence in the White House.
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Voice of reality
I don't think Kucinich has much of a chance of getting the nomination, but I am sure glad that he is out there speaking clearly, honestly, and truthfully. His words constantly cut through the miasma and smog.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yep
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Nice that there is an anti-war candidate for President in the Democratic side, at least.
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AnOhioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
Edited on Thu Mar-29-07 06:17 PM by AnOhioan
Dennis is right...again. He is standing up for those who know that funding the war is prolonging the war. I have listened to all the spin from elected officials and members of DU on this issue and have not changed my mind on it.

Neither will Dennis, because he knows that his stance is the right one, for him and for the country.
It is too bad so many refuse to see what is right there in front of them.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. In 2003 he was "crazy" In the end he will be the voice of true reason. Ironic?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Kucinich supporters will NEVER answer this:
If he's so honorable and dedicated to peace and ending the Iraq war, how come, in 2004, he threw his Iowa delegates to Edwards who supported it, and not to Dean who had been staunchly against it?
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I'll take that link?
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Maybe because he didn't trust Dean's
Edited on Thu Mar-29-07 06:47 PM by DemBones DemBones
supposed opposition to the war. I know I didn't.

Edit: And how about a link? Was that a fact or a rumor? It was a few years ago and I'm not sure I saw verification of it at the time.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. From Wiki
"At the last minute Edwards also reached a deal with Kucinich for all of Kucinich supporters to go to the Edwards camp if they were not viable in their caucuses."

And sorry "not trusting" Dean- at least on the part of Kucinich- was bullshit of the worst order. Dean had been clear as a bell from as early a time as Kucinich about being firmly against the Iraq war. And Gore trusted him, as did Tom Harkin who was strongly against the war, and Carol Mosely Brown, and a slew of others opposed to the war. I trusted him because he'd been my guv for 11 years, and though I certainly had my disagreements with him, I knew one thing: He doesn't lie. He never did. In fact, in his years as governor, he had kind of the opposite problem, he'd blurt stuff out when he probably shouldn't have. In any case, that's incidental to the facts of the case: Edwards supported the war in Iraq. Dean was strongly against it. Kucinich said he was strongly against it and then threw all his delegates to Edwards. I'm sure you'll find some way to rationalize it like "he didn't trust Dean, but that's hardly compelling. Here's the link:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Democratic_Party_caucuses,_2004
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I imagine....
he got in a pissing contest with Dean
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I imagine your right, and there were
certainly rumors that Kucinich resented the attention that Dean got for being anti Iraq war, when Kucinich articulated a peace message that went far further than Dean's. But honestly what does it say that a pissing contest was more important than supporting someone whose views on the war were far closer to his than Edwards?
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Exactly how I think of it.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. We've answered it hundreds of times
Edwards at the time was toward the back of the back in single digits. The only people in caucus states that have to make deals are the ones who can't make the 15% threshhold. Therefore they make deals WITH EACH OTHER rather than with front runners. Capeesh?
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-29-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. That changes things. nt
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
39. Rep. Kucinich Can Talk All He Wants, Sir
Edited on Fri Mar-30-07 10:06 AM by The Magistrate
But he cannot evade two large facts of this situation.

First, he cast exactly the vote the Republican leadership and administration wanted cast on this Bill. In this way, he is no different from Sen, Pryor. for example, or the renegade Lieberman. Votes are not totalled differently because of the reasons people claim they were cast; they are simply totaled on one side or the other, and his was cast with the administration. He should not have done that.

Second, this Bill enjoys the support, by reputable poll, of three fifths of the people in the country, including at least nineteen out of twenty of the persons expressing themselves as opposed to the present policy in Iraq. It is therefore nonesense to posture as if the Democratic Congress and its leadership were not representing their constituents, or not doing the will of the people, in this matter. They are doing both these things, and doing them well: it is Rep. Kucinich who is doing neither.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #39
46. The people are easilly misled when they are not given the facts.
The bill not only does the above but removed the language requiring Bush seek approval from congress before an Iranian attack. Both these provisions make the bill dishonest.




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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
47. Too bad we don't have more representatives like Dennis
We could end the war now if more elected representatives shared his convictions.
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