Can I say something about the north-south friction here?

[trof]

Generally, when you post something on DU, you're preaching to the choir. We're all here because we're pretty much like-minded about politics and political and social issues.

Sure some of us disagree about the particulars on one thing or another, but for the most part our purpose is to promote progressive/liberal (to one extent or another) values and ideas.

A good point was made on another thread about throwing out us southern babies with the dirty bathwater.

I know many don't like how the southern states vote. I don't like it either. But I'm not bailing. I came back to Alabama in 1993, after almost 30 years away. I could not find a Democratic organization in my county. It's overwhelmingly repug and the state committee had written it off. 'Pointless' to waste any time, effort, or money here.

Well fuck that(pardon the expression, but strong feelings call for strong language). A few years ago a pitiful handful of us got together and formed the South Baldwin Democrats. We have a couple of hundred members now. And in the last election we actually had a couple of DEMOCRATS on the ballot for local offices. UNHEARD of.
They got their asses kicked, as expected. But for the previous 10 years I've been here there were ZERO Dems on the ballot.

We're working our asses off to get a constitutional convention. Our state constitution was written in 1901 by the big land owners, bankers and industrialists (corporations) expressly to keep power in their hands (and totally concentrated in the statehouse in Montgomery) and deny the vote to blacks and poor whites. And it has worked damn well for them. If we can get a new constitution you are likely to see some surprising changes in our voting patterns.

There's an old saying "By the yard, it's hard. By the inch, it's a cinch." I'll tell you that even by the inch it ain't a cinch. But we are, by god, inching along.

So when somebody comes onto DU with their hair on fire all about how southerners are 'traitors' (direct quote) anyway because they left the union 150 years ago, and the stupid, benighted south should just leave again and good riddance (direct quote), well...it doesn't really help much or give us any encouragement for us to soldier on.

You want the south to change?
If you live in a 'safe' Democratic district or precinct, come on down and help us out in the next election year.
You can stay at my house.
Miz t. is one HELL of a cook and I'm a dab hand myself.
There is no lock on the booze cabinet.
There's just one thing.
We will NOT allow you to put cream and sugar on your grits.

And thank you for your support.
trof

[Stinky The Clown]

1. I prefer my grits with just some butter, salt, and pepper ......

Good post! :thumbsup:

[liberaldemocrat7]

97. I don't abhor the South. I abhor the policies of Southern economic and social "conservatives"

In 1860 and 1920 they could get called conservatives as they did not want to advance economic and social policy. However today I would call them Southern reactionaries who want to bring us back to the 1920's and 1860's.

These reactionaries have gravitated towards the Republiklan party.

[Bake]

106. Maybe some red-eye gravy?

And I agree; EXCELLENT post!

Bake

[Sequoia]

123. Me too. Fried okra. Oh yum, oh so yum!!! Southern Food and ice tea!

[melody]

2. There's a strong progressive element in the south

My grandparents were as Beulah-born as anybody and they were progressives.

Also, when people talk about "the south", they need to remember places like Asheville,
North Carolina. It's 57% Democrat.

[Sequoia]

122. Yes-s-s-s-s Asheville, NC!

I grew up there but back then it was a typical small town and basically cut off from the world.

[Spiffarino]

132. My home!

Best bumper sticker in town: Keep Asheville Weird

[DCKit]

3. Saying that people in the South are traitors

Is like saying I'm partly responsible for slavery because I'm white. I wasn't born then, and if I had been, I would have lived in eastern Europe.

We're all in this together folks and we'll lose if we don't grow up and start acting right.

[trof]

5. Hey, DC. True. And welcome to DU.

[mentalsolstice]

4. Amen, buddy!

The south has many great attributes, not the least of which is it's culture!

Thanks for the great post! :hug:

[LunaSea]

6. Recommended!

[crispini]

7. AMEN!

And, as a DU'er from Texas, let me add: Halle-freakin-lujah!

[trof]

8. You guys are bringing tears to my eyes.

Seriously.
Thanks.

[rosesaylavee]

9. K & R

from a DUer in a northern blue state but red county. You're fighting the good fight. If your county is like my mine, there are many MANY Dems reluctant to come forward publically as a Dem due to work and family issues. Keep up the good work - many are encouraged by your very existance.

:kick:

[trof]

11. Yep. We call it 'coming out of the closet'.

Like gays who are so outnumbered in most areas, the Dems here are very reluctant to admit it. For a long time the standing joke was that Baldwin County Democrats held their meetings in a phone booth.
Not any more.

[rosesaylavee]

52. Starting in 2000 we Dems now

have candidates for most open positions. Each election - publicans get the votes. However, this last time saw the smallest margin yet. Lots of Dems are either moving in the area or we are gathering strength in numbers because of the sea change happening everywhere in response to this corrupt administration.

[LuckyLib]

128. You are to be commended. Those of us in very blue activisit territory have no idea

how difficult it would be. A toast to all you do and to continued growth in the Democratic (and independent) folks in Alabama!:toast:

[n2doc]

10. Keep up the good fight!

You have my admiration. It is your work that will take back ALL this great country from the evil bastards.

[athena]

12. I posted this on another thread, but I have to post it again.

Please, everyone, read this article:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070212/moser

And yet a stubborn belief in the poor, backward, reactionary cracker South of myth still shapes and distorts American politics. By surrendering the region, Democrats have simultaneously abandoned the old hope of a durable national progressive majority. They have passively allowed right-wingers to build a mighty fortress for the defense of free-market excess in a region that is home to almost half--47 percent--of the Americans who call themselves populists. They have allowed economic, racial and cultural divisions to fester. And now, even with the Republicans' Southern strategy wearing thin, they are lurching toward an even more dramatic break with the South.

It ain't wise, and it ain't right. I can't say it better than Chris Kromm, director of the liberal Institute for Southern Studies in Durham, North Carolina. "For Democrats to turn their back on a region that half of all African-Americans and a growing number of Latinos call home, a place devastated by Hurricane Katrina, plant closings, poverty and other indignities--in short, for progressives to give up on the very place where they could argue they are needed most--would rightfully be viewed as a historic retreat from the party's commitment to justice for all."

[trof]

17. 1. The article is a gold mine. 2. thanks for being tenacious

and posting it again here.

[athena]

51. Thank you!

Until recently, I was also very anti-South. Articles like the one I posted have changed my mind.

[Flabbergasted]

13. Thanks

[HockeyMom]

14. I'm moving to Florida in the summer

and taking my liberal Northeast values with me. Yes, I will vote DEMOCRATIC. Yes, I have lived there in the past when I was in my 20s. This move is not by choice. My husband got a job there. We are neither snowbirds nor retirees. We will probably retire in about 8 years and don't plan to stay in Florida for retirement, but move to the Southwest where our daughter plans to move. Then I will take my "liberal" values to the Southwest.

Who says as you get older, you become more conservative? HA!!!!!

[trof]

18. We do get a lot of support from our northern Snow Birds.

And it's very welcome.

[Labors of Hercules]

15. CREAM AND WHAT???

:puke:

OMG. I bet they think it's a one syllable word too... sheesh! :eyes:

[Spiffarino]

61. That's an offense around here

Butter, cheese, salt, pepper, or any combination thereof, is acceptable. However, if you dare put honey, sugar and/or milk on your grits you will be given the deadly stink eye.

You have been warned.

;)

[Sequoia]

125. How true.

I remember when some Yanks from Maine came to our school and put milk and sugar on theres. We thought it was so funny. Ketchup on mashed potatoes too. We loved it when they said things with that accent of theirs though and they were a great bunch of guys. Four hot brothers.

[Anita Garcia]

16. Current Southern Democratic Candidate here

Recommend!
www.progressiveannie.com
The election is on Saturday.
Inch by inch!

[murielm99]

19. It's way too easy to bash the South.

The few times I have been South, I loved it. And as I mentioned in another thread, when we bash the South, we bash a large part of our American culture. A good example is the wonderful literature that comes from that part of the country.

I live in a red area of a blue state. When the Democrats in my county started to organize, they were also a pitiful few. We are growing in numbers and influence. While we only have one Democrat on our county board, we are running people for office and making some of the entrenched repukes campaign.

41.5% of my precinct voted Democratic in the last primary. We are beginning to band together with Democrats in other counties, and in other parts of our congressional district. We are raising money and awareness. We are backing candidates. We are even taking over some county boards.

I know that the OP and many Southerners understand that we have to work at the local level and make inroads there before we can do anything else. Good luck to you. I'll bash your bigots, but I'll bash our bigots, too. Let the (Democratic) South rise again.

[trof]

21. A good friend of mine was a county commisioner.

Unhappily she was killed in a car wreck a few years ago.
Everybody loved her.

She was a retired high school English teacher.
Twice overwhelmingly elected in our district.

We were having a Mardi Gras party and I asked her to come.
"Stop in for a glass of wine. There'll be 25 or 30 people here. Good chance to press the flesh and take pulses."
"Thanks, I'll be there."

At one point we got off in a corner. Talking about a couple of things coming up before the commission.
I'd had a few drinks and was pretty loose.
"Mary Frances? I gotta tell you there's one thing about you that pisses me off."
"What's that?"
"If you weren't a Republican I could just vote the straight Democratic ticket. But no...now I have to go in and vote for you and THEN vote for the Democrats on the ticket."
She laughed.
"OK, this is double super-secret blood-oath on your momma's grave and if you EVER tell I'll swear you're lyin' and your feet stink and you don't love Jesus."
"OK. What?"
"Honey, I really think I'm a Democrat at heart. But you KNOW you can't get elected to ANYTHING in Baldwin County if you don't run as a Republican."

Bless your heart, Mary Frances.

[Sequoia]

126. Say what?

My head hurts, my feet stink, and I don't love Jesus.
It's that kind of mornin',
really was that kind of night.
Tryin' to tell myself that my
condition is improvin' and if I don't
die by Thursday I'll be roarin' Friday night.

(Jimmy Buffet)

[dajoki]

20. K&R

I admire you're tenacity. Although I live in a so-called blue state my county has been taken over by the thugs. But we worked our asses of and got rid of our pub rep and voted in our first elected dem senator in forty years. Keep it going!!:hi:

[wildhorses]

22. thanks trof and

god bless you:P

:patriot:

[applegrove]

23. Well said.

[Breeze54]

24. Wicked good post!

:P
http://homedir-b.libsyn.com.nyud.net:8090/podcasts/22e0e3b02ae412db614be025b8a7b94c/460c4aa7/wickedgood/images/wg_album.jpg
That's how we talk up here in Massachusetts! ;)

I very much appreciate and admire your tenacity and perseverence.

But cream and sugar on my grits? :shrug: :rofl:

I'll take that in my coffee though! ;) We call that a regular. lmao!

May just take you up on your offer nearer to November '08!

Thanks for the open invite!

:kick: and Recommended!

[trof]

27. I lived in Merrimack, NH for 16 years.

About 45 minutes north of Bahstahn.
I speak 'wicked good' and 'regular coffee'.
On my first flight out of Logan I stopped for a cuppa.
"You want that regular?"
"Uh...yeah, I guess so."
I got it with cream & sugar.
I take it black.
First major New England learning experience.

Faneuil Hall, Durgin Park, Legal Seafood, Old ironsides, the Swan boats, Filene's basement, been there, done that. And thoroughly enjoyed it.
May even come back.
Our daughter lives in Melrose and is expecting our second grandchild in late May.
Who knows?

[Breeze54]

32. Awesome!

That almost makes us related! :rofl:

Melrose and a new grand baby too! Right on! Congrats!

Don't forget the clam chowda! ;)

PS. Filene's basement is closing for two yrs. for renovations

[trof]

36. Miz t. and our daughter will be devastated about FB.

[Breeze54]

39. It'll be two stories when

they're done and two entrances too! Right now the crime is very high
in downtown crossing (Winter St.) area; so it's just as well.

There's another basement somewhere in the 'burbs though. ;)

[intheflow]

25. Thanks, trof.

I was guilty of Southern bashing before I got down to the Mississippi Coast. It's easy to Southern bash from Denver, CO and the state of Massachusetts, the two places I lived prior to Mississippi. But it's not so cut and dry down here, is it? I think there are a lot of people who would vote for a Democrat if a) there wasn't such a history of voter disenfranchisement that folks don't even bother to vote any more, and b) if the structures were in place to develop good Dem leadership. The grass-roots community organizing that's happening now post-Katrina is actually becoming a training ground for such leaders. Not to metion plenty of people are P.O.'d about the Katrina response. I know the Coast has always been more liberal than the rest of the state, but it gives me hope to see the lightbulbs coming on all around me.

[ninkasi]

26. Bless you, Trof, for your post

I'm a Southerner, and a native Texan, so have two strikes against me. I don't take the occasional South or Texan bashing personally, though, because I know how frustrated I can be, living in an area where at times, conservatives rule. People react to the opinion of those in the majority. We've got a lot of progressives here, and we are not afraid of speaking out.

I get as upset as any when conservatives come up with their racist, or Bible-thumping attempts to turn America into a right-wing style heaven. We just have to stand our ground, and speak up when we can. I've lost people I used to consider friends, because of our differences in politics. A woman who was my best friend, and have known for 35 years, sent me a couple of pretty vicious e-mails about the victims of Katrina, and her main talking point was that if the victims had been white, we wouldn't have been kind enough to let them sleep in the Astrodome. She said nobody had ever given HER that kind of help.

Of course, the fact that she had been lucky enough to escape a killer storm that made her homeless, and killed some of her family members didn't enter into it. She was pissed because some people were getting help she never got, even though she never needed it. I couldn't handle it. I ended the friendship.

We have all kinds here, and I hope that when parts of the South act stupidly, our fellow DUers can remember that those of us who live here suffer, too. We're trying to change things, and need all the moral support we can get.

[raccoon]

89. People like her make me see red in a nanosecond.

“She was pissed because some people were getting help she never got, even though she never needed it.”

So small-minded and petty. I used to have a co-worker like that. :grr:

[Adelante]

28. 50-State Strategy

Let's remember it! :patriot:

[Skinner]

29. Well said.

:thumbsup:

BTW: I've never heard that saying before: "By the yard, it's hard. By the inch, it's a cinch." That's a good one. I'll have to file that one away for later use.

[trof]

31. The saying came from my great-aunt Lucia.

She was a tough, but very kindly, old bird.
When she said it she was 92 years old and in a nursing home.
She'd just been diagnosed with breast cancer.
"Honey, we'll just deal with this. We don't need to plan too far in advance. By the yard, it's hard. But by the inch, it's a cinch."

She had lived with me and my family until her doctor told us, and her, that she just needed a level of care that we could no longer provide.
Her comment: "Well, we better get me in there while we can. If you're too sick they won't take you."
Which, at least at that time, was true.

She had a full mastectomy and lived until the age of 97.
A happy and loving lady until the end.

[KoKo]

49. Good to hear from you Skinner....many of us oldies feel "out there"

and adrift without a comment or two from you now and then. Thanks! :-)'s

[alarimer]

30. As long as the Democratic Party does not give an inch on

gay rights or choice in order to appease conservative Dems in southern or western state, then I am with you. The party platform needs to be firm on those issues but if conservative southern Democrats are okay with that, then by all means they are welcome. I will NEVER vote for an anti-choice candidate on any level of the ticket. I will vote for no one before I will do that.

[trof]

34. My maxim: Try and maintain maximum flexibility at all times.

I understand how you feel. Believe me.
But if you don't win the election then all your wants and wishes and plans and dreams are fruitless.

I actually talked to Jimmy Carter about this.
He had done something that I really saw as pandering. Wish I could remember what it was, but it was a long time ago and I'm a geezer now.

At a campaign stop, I was able to talk to him and took him to task about it. I was a lot younger then and even more stupid than I am now.

Here's what he said:
"I understand how you feel. But here's how it is. If I don't get elected, nothing we want to do will happen. I wish it wasn't so, but the most important thing we have to concentrate on is winning this election. Only if we get into office can we begin to make a change."

And that's how I feel now.
I can park some of my principles for a while.
If I can get OUR guys in, THEN I can start working on getting them around to my way of thinking.

I'm OK with half a loaf instead of starvation.

[Hekate]

58. Amen. Jimmy Carter is a wise man, and you are one too.

We get NOTHING if we don't get elected in the first place.

Hekate

[DemBones DemBones]

38. OK, fine. You don't want pro-lifers voting Democratic,

I can stop. It's a 40-year habit but I'm sure I can save time and gasoline by staying home from the polls. You'd better hope like hell that all pro-life Democrats don't decide to stay home because there are quite a few of us.

[alarimer]

55. Well I am sorry you are anti-choice

And that is what it is. Anti-woman's rights = anti-choice. It is a violation of women's rights and we will NOT be thrown under the bus in the name of political expedience. Fuck that. YOU will not change the platform. Period. End of discussion.

Basically pro-life = Republican. You have no respect for women making their own decisions over THEIR OWN BODIES, you might as well be Republican.

[DemBones DemBones]

69. I am not "anti-choice," I am "pro-life." I don't believe in killing

human beings, including those in utero. I am a woman and I don't believe that women have the right to destroy their children.

It used to be argued that a man had a right to kill his wife if she was unfaithful. We got beyond that but came up with the idea that women have the right to kill their children before birth (and, some argue, in the first two years of life. Are you going to sign on to that movement, too?)

A lot of liberals and progressives went from marching for civil rights and an end to the killing in Viet Nam to marching for killing unborn babies. It was an odd disconnect then and it's not any more logical today. Many Democrats oppose killing enemies in war, oppose states killing convicted criminals, but support killing innocent unborn babies. Not logical and not humane. Many DUers express great concern over cruelty to animals but are pro-abortion.

It's also odd that feminists lobby for women to have abortions, instead of for women to avoid unplanned pregnancies. During the Great Depression, American women lowered the birthrate by use of contraceptives. At that time, the available contraceptives were condoms and diaphragms, plus some spermicides, perhaps. Old-fashioned coitus interruptus and douching were also used. That was the 1930s; this is the 2000s, with many other, more effective contraceptives available and sterilization available to those who want it with fewer restrictions than in the past. Why, then, do women choose to submit themselves to surgical abortions over a million times per year? Maybe because abortion is a profitable industry?

I have great respect for women who make the choice to use contraceptives if they don't want to become pregnant and also make the mature choice, to accept any unplanned pregnancy that occurs, choosing to have the baby and making the choice whether to raise the baby themselves or give him or her up for adoption by a couple unable to have children.

Those are choices I support. Choosing to kill a baby, before or after birth, is wrong. That doesn't mean I condemn all women who've had abortions. Abortion has been heavily promoted as the solution to an inconvenient pregnancy; I know women who had them back before ultrasounds were available and believed what they were told, that "it" was "just a blob of cells." Seeing the first in utero photographs was very upsetting for them. I think we should be looking at the future, not the past, and trying to reduce abortions in the future. Just so you'll know, I don't think women should die in childbirth. I think a pregnant woman should receive any necessary medical treatment, even if it endangers the life of her baby. It's abortion that I oppose.

Back to politics. . . YOU don't get to set the platform, either, and you don't get to tell me I "might as well be Republican." I'm not the only pro-life Democrat, just one of the few who'll speak out here at DU. There are a lot more pro-lifers than you know about. We don't all go to the big march in D.C. and we don't all put pro-life bumper stickers on our cars because too many "pro-choice" hotheads key cars with pro-life stickers. Apparently, the "pro-choicers" oppose us choosing our own opinions. Ironic. . .

I will no longer vote for "pro-choice" Dems who plan to do nothing to reduce the necessity for abortions, which means the majority of Democrats. That doesn't mean I'll vote for Republicans because they aren't as pro-life as they claim to be and are wrong on other issues.

A majority of women seeking abortions cite economic reasons, therefore society could provide economic assistance to these women during pregnancy and after the child is born. It's very sad that any woman should feel she has to kill her baby for economic reasons. As far as I know, Dennis Kucinich is the only presidential candidate who has a plan to support women and reduce the number of abortions by reducing demand. His plan would also provide more money for sex education and contraceptives, thereby preventing many unplanned pregnancies. Every Democrat should want this.

[Bridget Burke]

105. Feminists are against contraception?

They hate sex education? They want women to remain poor & ignorant?

Please, post links to those FemiNazi manifestos.

[Alexander]

80. So Bob Casey's a Republican?

I'm sure he'd like to be informed about his apparent change in party affiliation.

"pro-life = Republican" is an incredibly short-sighted view. I thought we were the big tent party.

You can be happy in the fact that banning abortion will never get into the Democratic platform, but you don't have to go calling everyone who disagrees with you a Republican.

There are many Democrats out there who would be included in your broad brush strokes.

[Greyhound]

83. Hijack alert!

Take it outside, start your own thread, this is a conciliation thread and has nothing to do with your anti-choice beliefs.

[trof]

118. Thanks.

I appreciate your support for what I tried to do.

[TexasLiz]

96. The party platform should reflect the people that support that party

Drawing such deep lines in the sand is not always productive and, IMO, have been a major factor in dividing this country so decisivly on social issues.

Pro-life democrats and pro-choice republican candidates challenge people to vote based on something other than the number one polarizing issue in the US. Imagine southern conservatives realizing that they are voting with Donald Trump - largely because of the very arbitrary and highly crafted platform that marries pro-business and anti-abortion. Likewise strongly religious individuals. Without the abortion plank, it would far more logical for those people to find a home with the party that actually believes in caring for the least among us. There would be an enormous opportunity for a broader coalition of support for democratic principles.

As long as both parties cling to very strong positions on abortion, not only will those positions grow more extreme to draw greater contrast between the two, but the country will remain very very divided.

[flaminbats]

33. no southern comments allowed!

I think Katrina gives Democrats the first opportunity of winning in gulf states in over a decade. the north-south tension is always there, but it is driven mostly by bitterness. I think most Democrats are worried that Bush won every southern state both times. Unfortunately allot of this frustration and disappointment appears in the form of rage against the south.

Republicans like Schwarzenegger, Romney, and Pataki have proved they can get elected in blue states..so why should Democrats give up on the red states? If Roosevelt had taken this approach in 1932, he would have only been campaigning in the south!!

[KoKo]

48. If only Kerry and Edwards had visited more...even in NC with Edwards

running they had only one appearance together at the "kick off" and then the Edwards did a last minute "Rally the Troops" a couple of weeks before the election.

Before Dean as head of DNC ...Dem Strategists decided to "write off the South."

Bad stuff....but then there were the "voting machines" and other things...and the "CONSULTANTS" who don't know a damn but how to "make a buck," while Dems kept losing and losing. :-(

[ncrainbowgrrl]

116. Ya mean crowds like this, KoKo01?

RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA

[pink-o]

35. You go!

..it takes guts to stand up for your beliefs and principles when you're one voice against many. We who live in blue places (and I'm a denizen of one of the bluest places in the USA) can safely speak out and know we're gonna find sympathy and support. No one should paint a region with a broad brush any more than s/he should do the same with a race of people. All prejudice is unfair and juvenille.

My aunt and uncle live in Wilmington NC, and when I went to stay with them, I was greeted with the most amazing hospitality and kindness. In San Francisco, we have the attitude that tourists should just leave their money with minimal intrusion; we could learn a lot from other parts of the country!

[volstork]

37. Grits with

CHEESE! Lots of cheese!
I am a Southern Dem from a LONG line of repugs, and am proud to come from a blue county in my red state!

[trof]

40. and jalapenos

unh hunh

[volstork]

41. Yum!

:9

[mmonk]

42. With you on that.

Heck, you might say we're on the front lines. Indeed, help us, don't drown us.

[marlakay]

43. The red parts of the country need us!

I have lived all my life in Calif. until 2 years ago. We moved to a small city in central WA that is mostly red. I thought about it after the last pres. election that if we don't become a part of the red areas they will just get stronger and stronger.

I find that talking to them one on one instead of arguing my side is the way to go.

We didn't pick this area based on politics as we wanted to be in the mountains to retire but I think we are needed more in the rural areas.

[calimary]

44. Please forgive me for sounding fairly stupid here, trof, but why does

one not put cream and sugar on one's grits?

Are they not to be sweetened?

I'm afraid I'm no expert on grits cuisine.

[KoKo]

47. No...Sugar is for "Cream of Wheat" ...True Grits...is...well...Grittier and a little

salt and pepper with a little bacon and some egg yolk creeping in...well ...it's good stuff.

Note: Salt and Pepper...and "TRUE GRIT!" :-)'s

[gkhouston]

54. cream of wheat might as well be wallpaper paste

grits from yellow corn are only fit for the hogs in my not-even-remotely-humble opinion. White corn grits with butter are good with a little sugar and/or cream, but you've gotta have some ham or bacon on the plate. Then again, I'm a contrary cuss who doesn't care for gravy on biscuits -- I'd much rather have fried apples or apple butter. :9

[MadMaddie]

65. MMM....you are making me hungry...

I live in the Seattle area grits are expenisve here. So when I went hom to visit the folks in GA went to the SAMS and bought me 3 big ole 5pd bags of grits and put them in my luggage!


mmmmm..;)

[mmonk]

81. Yep, salt, pepper & butter. No sweet stuff.

[calimary]

134. Indeed! Anything with egg in it works for me. That actually sounds

rawther intriguing.

Thanks for the responses, everybody. We aren't exactly what you'd call grits experts here at casa de calimary.

Does cheese ever get in there along with the bacon, or is that sacrilege?

[trof]

86. That was tongue-in-cheek.

My Bahstahn son-in-law does that and I kid him mercilessly.
Actually, I believe in everybody doing like they want to do as long as they don't do it to me.
I've even heard some rebs put 'lasses on their grits but I think that's just an Urban Legend.

[annabanana]

45. You Southern Liberals are some of the toughest liberals around..

You have to be tough to thrive in the inhospitable repug soil you got down there. I, as an old time Massachusett Liberal salute you!

[KoKo]

46. I kinda get upset with the Southern Bashing, too. Left the South and

didn't get back for about as long as you...and I KNOW all the problems here...but there are also GOOD FOLKS who fought for CIVIL RIGHTS and who aren't BUSHIES.

Those of us who have come back and have been here on DU for ages like you and me, "trof" are working our butts off for the place of our Birth.

Folks forget that it isn't the SOUTH that did this to us...it's ALL OF US! I lived in the Northeast long enough to know that what rears it's ugly head in the South is just "under the blanket" in the Northeast and it rules there... Look at Lieberman and others who one would think should be Models for Dems...but what are they?

I know we have the Fundie Fringe that upsets so many...but Fundie Fringe extends across the whole USA and it doesn't have a Southern Accent in those areas. We've gotta CLEAN UP the whole USA...and we here are doing our best...it's all we can do...working our butts off. We shouldn't be trashed..when there's so much clean up everywhere to be done.

South shouldn't be the "Straw Man" or "Scapegoat" for what's wrong with America. It's too easy to do that. :shrug:

[DemBones DemBones]

56. So true, KoKo. Those of us who have lived

in different parts of the country, including the South, are well aware of the racism that exists everywhere, and the reality that the Southern states were not the only states who voted Republican in the past two elections.

People need to stop making assumptions about the South. They need to learn some facts, one of them being that the South has a large population of transplants from elsewhere and quite often they are not only Republicans but far more racist than native Southerners.

People who don't remember the Fifties and Sixties ought to do some reading and learn about the race riots in Boston, New York, and other Northern cities. These came about when Northern schools were ordered to desegregate, 10-12 years after Southern schools had been ordered to desegregate. People were killed in those riots. White people spit on black children. A white mob in Boston, or maybe it was Philly, overturned a schoolbus carrying black children. The North is not and never has been the bastion of racial tolerance it claims to be.

[KoKo]

62. Yes...the "untold story." Thanks for posting this...because

it gets so little attention. In the Northeast you could segregate yourself from "people of color" and it was totally acceptable. Where as in the rural South your neighbors were the people the Northeast could ignore. And, the racism was open there...amongst the people I met...and my Republican friends. I knew few Dems and although registered as a Dem for 20 years I was never called by Dems or invited to any Dem activities...although I gave to the Party.. I wasn't a "high roller," so didn't count. And, I wasn't part of the Northeast Dem Machine ethnically.

There's lots of stuff that those of us who left the South know that was the truth about the "other places." But, as I said, it's ALL OF US...all of the USA...that we have to take back and going after one part of America with blame only diverts our attention from the cause at hand.

Repugs have divided us for too long..using "tactics" that divide us regionally while they and the DLC spout the "Global Economy."

[Sequoia]

127. Some parts of the USA are more southern than the south.

Northern California for one in lots of towns with confederate flags flapping behind a black pick up truck. I never saw that in my southern town.

[Sequoia]

129. I remember that.

I was a kid and we pretty much didn't get exposed to the news but that's one I remember....Boston. Back in the day, way back....Boston hung Quakers.

[Hekate]

50. 50-state strategy, by God. Thank you for fighting the good fight!

Trof, you make excellent points. (Can I just say here that I'm getting pretty tired of the ease with which some DUers throw around the word 'traitor'?) You are the living embodiment of why Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy is the only way we're going to take back our country, including the Southern states.

Thank you.

Hekate

[Bucky]

53. Well, that's better than my suggestion that we all team up together to hate on California

And everyone knows you put bacon and strawberry jam in your grits.

[LynzM]

57. Great post, trof

It's so easy to stereotype; thank you for the from-the-heart reminder about why it's so important not to judge each person without knowing them.

[eridani]

59. Is it OK if I leave the sugar out of the iced tea? :)

I say we go for the 50 state strategy, and admit that there is racism everywhere.

[DemBones DemBones]

71. Sure, as long as you don't complain that we like sweet tea!

Seriously, you would not believe how many people move to the South and are offended that we eat grits and like sugar in iced tea. I've heard people go on and on about how much they dislike grits, how could anyone eat grits, etc. Once, I got this from a "friend" while I was eating grits. :eyes:

I wouldn't go to Minnesota and complain about lutefisk. I might not like it, but I'd be polite about it.

50-state strategy is the way to go. Admit there's racism everywhere, and don't criticize anybody's food preferences or weather. (We KNOW it's hot here in the summer.)

[eridani]

78. Guess I just need to remember to ask for it without sugar

--otherwise I get the default option. This is like Massachussetts. When I first moved there in 1980, we stopped off of I-90 somewhere in the western part of the state to get coffee. The waitress said "Regular?" Sure, why not. Turns out that "regular" means "with cream and suggar already added." Out in Seattle now that means plain old filtered coffee--, i.e. not espresso.

[raccoon]

94. NO, NO, NO, that is NOT OK!

And that's one thing that needs to be exported to other states, including, but not limited to, New Mexico and Montana (2 I have vacationed in)--Sweet Tea! :-)

[Hosnon]

60. BRAVO! I say it's a bit more difficult to be such a strong Dem when you aren't

surrounded by other Dems!

[KoKo]

64. It's been hard on many of us everywhere who didn't have fellow Dems with Outrage

over Stolen Election 2000 and loss of our jobs overseas, Media Dereg and Iraq War. Even our fellow Dems didn't see what we saw except on the "liberal Internet" that grew.

It was everywhere. It is still everywhere. It can be lonely in social circumstances. It will get better as more wake up to what's been done to us. It will take more time...but we've come very far from the lonely days of 2001.

[kaygore]

63. Look what we did in Virginia!

We have had two Democratic governors in a row and actually got a Democratic senator (Jim Webb) and several congress members! Next election may also see the General Assembly go Democratic!

Don't give up on the Southern states. I lived in Alabama for almost a year in Tuscaloosa. We had a nice group supporting Kerry!

Dean's strategy of building the party in all 50 states will work if for no other reason than forcing the Republicans to spread their resources. The more lies they spread, the faster people get fed up and switch parties.

[Lasher]

79. Victory in Virginia is my favorite 2006 success story

You Webb supporters didn't have a chance but were too dumb to know it. :thumbsup:

All year I tried to wish Webb ahead in the polls but it didn't happen until the moment when it really mattered. Yay!

:yourock:

[Spiffarino]

66. Transplanted Californian here

I agree with trof and hope everybody here will take his words to heart. Every region of this great country has troglodytes, dufuses, or in the sad case of my beloved North Carolina, Jesse Helms.

There are progressives everywhere who need and deserve support but progressive Southerners especially, for their battlegrounds all face uphill.

[Breeze54]

73. I love that last line. It's a keeper!

"There are progressives everywhere who need and deserve support but
progressive Southerners especially, for their battlegrounds all face uphill."

Right on!

Wise words. I'm saving them.

Thanks.

[Spiffarino]

131. You are very kind

Use any time. Consider it public domain.

[tandot]

67. We moved from Oklahoma to Northern California in 2004.

Sadly, we moved into the "reddest" district in Northern California with a majority of voters being Republican. I've never seen this many Bush-Cheney bumper stickers in OK. However, now you rarely spot them anymore.

My sister and her partner still live in OK raising her grandkids with her. I've met many people who are progressive/liberal in Oklahoma.

However, I only eat my grits with cream and sugar. I love to break the rules. Sorry :evilgrin:

[northofdenali]

68. Grits, country ham and redeye gravy, if you please!

trof, my daughter joined a Dem student's group at - get this - UAB!! She's in grad school there, and said this was the first time she'd heard of it. Things are changing. When many of the country folks in the South realize that Dems are NOT out to destroy their religion or general way of life, but ARE out to help with domestic issues like money for schools, health care, decent housing and the like - we'll see a "sea change" for sure.

BTW - ROLL TIDE!!!! (Sorry, Auburn Fans, my kid goes to UA)

And I'll have Jack with 2 cubes, please. And moon pies for dessert. Got any RC?

I bought a mess of collards the other day and had ordered at Smithfield Country Ham on line - it arrived in time for the collards to go great with some of it.

But most of it will be fried, served with grits and redeye gravy! :pals::hug::pals:

If I could be there to help, I would. Meanwhile, my daughter and her sweetie are doing what they can, and have even convinced my ex to register to vote, albeit he registered Independent or whatever equivalent that is y'all have there. And I, too, am one MEAN Southern cook! - when I can get the ingredients, most of which I have to order on the 'net.... :P

[unkachuck]

70. I must admit....

....I've felt and said negative things about the South and Southerners in the past, but that's just my stupidity showing....

....I really shouldn't catagorize people, lump them together and brand them with my discontent of the group....I need to become more aware of differences and take people individually....

....yes, there are assholes in the South as there are assholes in the North....we need to fight assholes where ever we find them....

....keep up the good work....

[DemBones DemBones]

72. Thanks for saying that.

We've all been guilty of thinking of people as "them" and not as people. I've found that there are few people I can't find some common ground with, though sometimes it's more difficult than others.

[Colobo]

74. Is Florida the South?

[Breeze54]

75. Your south of me!

;)

But you're also on the east coast. Does it matter?

We're all in this jam together.... :hug:

[Colobo]

76. LOL!

Yep... we are all concerned Americans trying to bring a new destiny. No more gloom, violence, despair and oppression.

[NMDemDist2]

77. I'm in the red section of New Mexico (southern, rural, oil & gas country)

but we have a strong Dem base here and several Dems in local government

keep plugging away trof :loveya:

[Warren Stupidity]

82. Well ok somebody has to offer an argument in this love fest.

I think that the devolution of the current republic into something more or less ressembling the boundaries in 1861 would in the end be the best thing for all of us and the best thing for world civilization. I realize that the many good progressive southerners would get a bit screwed in the process, but perhaps that is the price that has to be paid to avoid a far worse resolution of what I view as the terminal crisis of the current republic.

Continued federation within the context of a cultural schism that has no peaceful resolution is heading us in the direction of a nightmare of a theocratic fascist government that will impose its jesusland world view on the rest of us by force of arms, by jackbooted thugs, by its mercenary army so conveniently trained and organized with our tax dollars.

The devolution of the republic would also mean its demise as the rogue state planetary imperial power. It would be the end of the neocon fantasy. The rest of the planet would collectively exhale in relief.

[trof]

85. And I guess it might as well be you.

And just as I was going to lead us all in a verse of Kum Bah Yah.

[Bridget Burke]

104. So--you think slavery should have continued?

I realize that ending slavery was not the reason the North fought. But I'm glad the end result was the end of that horrible institution.

The Union Forever!

[Warren Stupidity]

110. Did I say that?

No I did not. I said that splitting this country up along roughly the 1861 boundaries might not be a bad idea. I did not say that we ought to roll back the clock and unfight the civil war. Keeping the union might have been a good idea then, I just don't think it is such a good idea now. This union as it is requires me to compromise endlessly with people who would not mind seeing me put to death for atheistic heresy. Why should I want this arrangement to continue?

[Bridget Burke]

112. Well, we won't change our borders to suit you. Sorry.

And your vision of the South is pretty outdated. Are you willing to get rid of the West, too?

I know parts of East Texas are pretty scary--but Houston is different. However, the city's much less lily-white than New Hampshire. I know that sort of thing can be scary, too.

[Warren Stupidity]

115. Indeed the boundaries are only roughly those of 1861.

Yes of course the boundaries aren't going to be changed to suit me. And yes of course the urbanized regions of the former confederacy are full of lots of progressive people, and certainly there are states outside of the south that are fairly hopeless too. However, there really is a huge cultural divide in this country, it really does have roughly geographical parameters to it, and I really do not see much hope of a peaceful resolution of the 'culture war' the right has been pushing for the last 30 years.

The OP's post seemed to me to be sweeping the huge chasm between progressive america and jesusland, whatever the exact boundaries of those two mythical countries are, under the rug. The differences are very real.

[Bridget Burke]

119. Ah, you believe in the "Culture War".....

The countries you mention really are mythical, you know.

[Greyhound]

84. Hope you have a big house.

Butter salt & pepper here. Oh how I miss good Bar-B-Que, we have this stuff here that seems to be made of ketchup with lots of sugar and a little cayenne, yuk. They either call it Texas or St.Louis style, but I've never had anything like it in either place.

ETA; Huey Long was a Southerner

[raccoon]

87. Great post! Happy to add another recommendation. nt

[Sparkly]

88. Fried grits

My Dad was from the south, and chilled leftover grits in a loaf pan; the next morning he sliced it and fried it in butter (sometimes bacon grease) for breakfast. I remember putting honey on that.

Speaking of leftovers, I sometimes think we've got way too much resentment left over from the Civil War still hanging around. As a Connecticut Yankee myself, my resentment is southerners resenting northerners (to the point that being from the south is a plus in a national candidate, since we'll vote for them but they won't vote for us).

Maybe the best remedy is people moving around more?

[PurgedVoter]

90. Grits Matter!

None of them instant grits either. Salt, pepper and an over easy egg right on top. Now that's breakfast.

[Mass]

91. Congratulations for your efforts. This is how the democrats are going to win back the South.

As long as they do not change their values for the sake of winning the South, I agree with that. Explain our values. Show people how they are relevant to them (North or South, East or West). There may be some policy aspects that may need to be modified to be agreeable throughout the country, but never accept to compromise your values.

This said, the rift goes both sides. How many people from the South on this board consider that we should never have somebody from the North East (or from New England) on the ticket because they are too far left and elitist? Respect should go both sense. If you or others consider us as elitist, do not expect there will be respect in the other direction.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

92. what are grits?

and do you stock single malt?

[TexasLiz]

93. Southerner liberals have a valuable POV to offer...

Great post.

I am in higher ed and more than once I have been in a group of higher ed professionals in the North East and I find myself speaking up to remind them that their POV frequently assumes that not everyone sees various issues (the value of higher ed, the improtance of diversity, etc) as self-evident the way very liberal higher ed professional do. Sometimes liberals assume *everyone* knows/understands/should agree with A and B and just plow forward with C. And if Southerns, for example, aren't at C, then (after the shock "what do you MEAN multi-cultural programs are not a major selling point for parents and students??") it is assumed that they don't agree with/value A and B which is often incorrect. Some people just need to be walked through points A and B before getting to C. People that don't worship at the education altar or necessarily want to be in a multi-cultural environment are not necessarily evil or stupid. They are sometimes misinformed or just uninformed, but those things can co-exist with values and integrity. The South epitomizes the dichotomy of the well-meaning bigot. Something that is hard to understand from the "outside" but nonetheless represents an large part of the country.

There is a reason Southern Democrats tend to do well nationally. Coast liberals are at one end, Ricky Bobby conservatives are at the other. And Southern liberals are the translators between the two, lol.

[southernleftylady]

95. It feels a hell of a lot harder being a liberal in the south than in the north..

trust me...
great post!

[myrna minx]

98. I can only imagine!

I live in bluer than blue Minneapolis, so I take for granted the ease of my freedom to protest and openly express myself without alienating anyone or myself. My care and support goes out to my southern friends who are fighting the good fight, in the most difficult of circumstances. These flame wars make me sad. We are all in this together. :hug:

[southernleftylady]

100. Holding a sign during the elections.. my hubby came and picked me up..

because he was scared for me... and he says he is worried that i have stickers on my car because he says "they are crazy around here"
ok and this is coming from my southern baptist republican who i have now got to say is a "conservative" democrat :)

[myrna minx]

102. It takes alot more courage for you to hold a sign during the elections

then it is for me to go to a march where we have police escorts and deafening car horn honks of support. Thank you for all that you do. :hug:

[southernleftylady]

103. i forgot to say that i was 8 months preggo and on bed rest ;) lol nt

[Ishoutandscream2]

99. Thank you, trof

We are all in this together. A very refreshing post.

[brg5001]

101. Gotta love it: Stop bitchin' and start a revolution!

(Edited for clarity)

Having returned to the very non-Southern South Florida after 20 years in NC and Georgia, I know there's a bright blue progressive streak that runs counter to the prevailing red state ethos.

Wherever one travels in the South, there are thinking people who are getting involved to counter the Bible-Belt BS with humor, energy and action. For awhile, we were so taken aback by the enormity of the task that we didn't try. Those days are over. And you know what's happened? We've found out that lots of our neighbors actually agreed with us. They too were tired of the KKKristian right defining what it means to be moral and godly. They too were fed up with dittoheads free-associating liberals, environmentalists and gays with criminals, commies and molesters. And they too were finally tipped over the edge by the current administration's twisted and disgusting behavior.

Many people in the South only woke up when their good jobs were shipped overseas, or when family or friends were shipped home with limbs missing or in bodybags. Suddenly, all of the big lies that they didn't want to admit were lies came into sharp focus.

Underlying the success of Republicans in the South was the notion that Republicans really cared about working people and wanted to help everyone become more successful. Only now is it clear that 27 years after Reagan's election paved the way for the Republican South, the lives of working people are harder than ever. There are just as many regulations, only they've been rewritten to benefit the wealthy. Jobs, even the great jobs in the "new economy", have been moved overseas and we've all been forced to compete with ever-lower wages and benefits to get a scrap of what remains. The "evil" socialists who wanted to take over healthcare were defeated, yet now millions across the region lack insurance and have no access to healthcare, and the sacrosanct "market forces" haven't lowered prices. Finally, the bellicose approach to foreign policy which led to so much chest-thumping and flag-waving has proven to be a disaster. The Soviet Union was crumbling anyway, yet Reagan and Bush Sr. hooked up with Bin Laden to fight that teetering empire. And Reagan-wannabe George W has left us with a debacle that is disproportionately affecting the South, since so many sons and daughters of the South have traditionally chosen military careers.

What started out as some grumbling, a few complaints, some bitching here and there, is becoming a revolution. People are no longer going to be cowered into silence. Progressivism is indeed becoming the driving force in the South and it's about damn time!

[JackCo]

107. Well said!

I don't usually pay it no mind but for me it's the same as lumping any one group into a negative stereotype. I also agree with the baby/bathwater analogy. If there is ever hope of bringing a stronger Democratic presence to the south then we can't be written off as an automatic loss. How often do Democratic candidates really try to court the south other than TX or FL? Not often. This is the United States of America not the Few States You Think You Can Win of America.

When people are ignored they tend to have animosity in retaliation. So take the time to help the southern Democrats rise again not keep us down.

Really the Mason-Dixon isn't a force field to keep liberals out of the south or turn those who get too close into neocons.

[myrna minx]

108. Welcome to DU, JackCo.

You are so correct. This is why I love Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy. In the past, southern Dems have been all but abandoned by the DNC, but this is changing. Thanks for fighting the good fight. :hi:


on edit: spelling.

[JackCo]

109. Thanks

I've been here since the '04 elections, I just keep real quite and soak it all in usually.

[Major Hogwash]

111. Shelby used to be a Democrat.

Maybe we could convert him again, bring him back into the fold, somehow.

He can't be happy with Bush.
I can understand why he decided to switch parties and support Reagan instead of Carter, but there's never been a better time for a person to stand up for the Constitution than today.

[Patiod]

113. Wow! Keepin'g the faith

Keep up the hard work.

We had the same thing happen in our rock-solid Republican suburban county. No Dems ever ran, we were totally outnumbered. We would go to the polls, and the Republicans would patronize us or get pissy and petty. But we kept up the work, and between demographic changes and the Clinton impeachment (which pissed-off Blue State voters of both parties - the is NOT the Bible belt up here, and we don't like that moralistic crap)we managed to start winning.

First it was one seat on township council, then 2, then we won the council. They a mayor's race here and there. Then State offices, then this past Fall, 2 out of the 3 hotly contested House seats and we got rid of Little Ricky Santorum. Now, we're looking competitive for the county commission, which the Republicans had always assumed was theirs. Fortunately, they're infighting and badmouthing each other, while we have a solid slate of candidates. If we take over County Commission, our take over of the county will have been complete

You can do it too -- sounds like you're on your way.

It CAN happen.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

114. Great post!

Although I'm not from the South, I've visited there many times and am always amazed at the wonderful culture and people I encounter there. Plus, our Southern liberals should make us all very proud!

[bamacrat]

117. Thankyou trof, from a fellow Alabamian.

There are progressive elements in this state, they are hard to find but they are there. The main problem with Alabama and the south as a whole is the Christian right. THey have scared so many of these people for 50 years now into thinking anything progressive or liberal is a sin and punishable by eternity in hell. Thats dumb, this state needs change and re-writing the constitution would be a start, followed of couse by the "rapture". Which would leave all of us progressives to run the state, which may be the only way that will happen. Sad but true, I am about to graduate from UA and hate to think that in order to live in a somewhat open society I have to leave the state I was born and raised in. Maybe Ill run for governor in 10 years or so....

[muryan]

120. my only beef with the south is everytime im down there

i get called a yankee.

[C.J.]

121. Y'all

Don't forget where the late,great Molly Ivins was from (Texas). It's easy to paint an area one way, but it's usually a blend, just w/ a severe slant at times. I left Virginia in part because of the political climate, but some good folks have come from there, including my dad. And in rural upstate NY, sometimes the only difference from the "Red" south is the accent.

[trof]

124. Boy, did this one grow legs.

I posted it 24 hours ago and it's still here.
And I didn't even mention kudzu.
That's never happened to me before and it's a little overwhelming.

Thanks for all the comments, whether you agree with me or not.
And the recs.
Even some of the tangents were interesting to read.
Sorry I didn't have time to reply to each one of you individually.
The reason for this thread wasn't about me, but you all made me feel good for reading what I wrote.
Again, thank you.
trof

[Sequoia]

130. This post makes your hungry and angry at the same time.

Well, not real angry but those grits!!!!

[LWolf]

133. I disagree.

I believe there are great fault lines, growing wider each breath I take, between different factions here at DU. I don't believe there is any more "preaching to the choir," although there was a time about 4 years ago I would have agreed.

I don't really know anything about the north/south divide; I'm a west coast person, currently living north, but having lived 3 decades south. The only political divide I feel with my former neighbors is the reelection of Arnold.

The divide that has grown increasingly wide, to me, is that between the liberal and the corporate wings of the party. So wide a divide that I don't think the party can automatically rely on votes from my side of that divide any more.

As for divisions? I've rarely been to the "south," unless you count so cal and mexico, lol. Still, I've never wanted to throw the "south" out. I'd miss the food and music and other aspects of the culture too much, for one thing.

I think that the Democratic Party is definitely at a crossroads, but they don't just lead north and south. They lead right and left. A turn to the right will leave the party little different than the republican party, faithful only to their corporate masters. A turn to the left could reunite all the disenfranchised, but might mean the loss of the corporatists.

Can you guess which way I'd like to turn? ;)