NY Times: From Patrician Roots, Dean Set Path of Prickly Independence

[Karmadillo]

Interesting story of Dean's life.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/28/politics/campaigns/28DEAN.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5062&en=6cbffd052a8cc178&ex=1073192400&partner=GOOGLE

<edit>

Like her son, Mrs. Dean chafes at the notion that the family lived the kind of privileged existence that many associate with America's current first family — despite the striking similarities between the two families that even a cursory look reveals.

George Walker Bush and Howard Brush Dean III are from opposite sides of the nation's political fault line. Yet it may be their similarities and the inroads Dr. Dean might make among swing voters that worry some Republicans, especially when Dr. Dean's current image as a Vermont liberal is leavened with details of the fiscally conservative way he governed Vermont for 11 years.

The two are sons of established blueblood families dominated by powerful fathers. They attended top prep schools and Yale. And they settled far from traditional power enclaves, reinventing themselves as archetypes of their chosen new homes, President Bush in swaggering Texas and Dr. Dean in outdoorsy Vermont.

They were known for hard-partying, hard-drinking in their youths, but those days ended when they simply gave up alcohol as adults. Each man's character was shaped by the loss of a sibling: for the president, a sister who died of leukemia at age 3; for Dr. Dean, a younger brother who disappeared in 1974 in Laos while on an around-the-world trip.

more...

[maddezmom]

1. interesting article

They ( bush and Dean) both come from wealth, but Dean has made something of his life and did it without his father's influence or even blessing.

[JasonDeter]

2. How can bush's character be shaped when he has no character?

The man is an inarticulate intellectually void immoral liar!

[dsc]

3. I read the whole piece

and despite some fluff it isn't too bad. I do find it more than interesting that anytime these comparisons are made the consequences that Bush faced, and Dean didn't, from alcohol abuse are never mentioned. Also never mentioned is the fact Dean quit alcohol in his very early 30's while Bush was 40. Given the similar ages of these men that is a nearly 10 year difference in time as well as age. Also it was nice to see an accurate discription of his apartment. Doesn't sound all that swanky to me.

[jburton]

6. Upper East Side decadence, I tell you!!!

snip

"Her husband — also Howard B. Dean — rented their Upper East Side apartment for $200 a month after World War II. He eventually bought it, she said, for $9,500."

snip

Jeez, this is the first description I've ever seen in print.

From the way "Upper East Side apartment" has been thrown around, I just assumed it was quite a posh place.

[dsc]

14. The rent likely is meaningless due to rent control

but the price is another matter. That apartment cost only a bit more than my parent's first house and it was no palace by any means.

[Shanty Oilish]

19. That was a mistake!

You're not supposed to read the article, just the headline. It's meant to give Dean the double whammy. He's patrician---ie, not a "regular" fellow. And he's prickly. Message: Vote for Percival Prickleigh.
To give the rag the benefit of the doubt, maybe they just want to see a real horse race this year and they honestly think Dean a sure loser.

[cosmicdot]

31. the Dean's prolly used the apt mainly for life surrounding work life

... outside of work-related life, I suspect was at the East Hampton country house ...

[bearfartinthewoods]

41. i wonder what other properties he owns?

i understand that much of his wealth is in land.....

[cryofan]

4. "when ... Dean's current IMAGE as a ... liberal is leavened with details"

The NY Times wrote:
"Yet besides energizing the left wing of his party, Dr. Dean has some Republicans worried that the characteristics he shares with President Bush could appeal to swing voters, especially when Dr. Dean's current image as a Vermont liberal is leavened with details of the fiscally conservative way he governed Vermont for 11 years."
>>>>>

Ain't it cute how the elite media is going along with the Dean Deception that he is a liberal? This guy is no more liberal than Bush; in fact, less liberal in many ways. Yet this Times story never comes out with the facts about how Dean repeatedly taunted the liberals in Vermont. Where are these details the NY Times alludes to? They just allude briefly to them. I guess those details are not included as "All The News That Is Fit To Print"?

Also from that same NY Times piece of pro-Dean propaganda:
"Mostly, voters here saw Howard as in the center of his party, perhaps even somewhere between his party and the Republican Party," said John Bloomer, a Republican and the minority leader in the Vermont Senate."
>>>

Translation: he is a Republicrat.


From a detailed, footnoted left-wing journal, I found some of those details. This what Dean really thinks of the liberals that have driven him to the top of the polls:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

And when do we think Dean's current IMAGE as a liberal will be leavened with the truthful details? Lemme guess....the elite media will spring those "details" on us AFTER he gets the nomination....

/gomer pyle voice/ SUR-PRIZE SUR-PRIZE SUR-PRIZE /gomer pyle voice/

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoppin_Mad]

8. LOL ! Thanks ! I needed a good laugh ! LOL !

[dsc]

9. Oh and I am STILL waiting for those promised original sources

am I ever going to get them?

[cryofan]

33. The article in question is extensively footnoted

...so help yourself getting them yourself.

[stickdog]

10. Socialism isn't exactly a viable American political strategy at the moment

Sorry.

[mouse7]

16. That's okay. We're patient.

;)

[Rose Siding]

12. Dean "...could appeal to swing voters"

right there in the NYT Sunday paper. Ummm...ummm, good!

[AP]

22. Swing voters don't vote on tax breaks for Enron captives. They vote on

social issues. The average swing voter isn't going to be able to decipher Dean's fiscal conservativism as a compelling reason to vote for him. But they'll look at his social liberatarianism and end up seeing a good reason NOT to vote for him.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

43. Huh? You think Enron wouldn't lobby for the tax breaks, and then

after getting them in place, move in to do business?

Unless you have some information I don't have ('cause it's under seal)...

[mouse7]

15. Nobody here thinks Dean is liberal.

Dean is a moderate. Everyone knows that fact.

[AP]

23. He's a fiscal Republican and social liberal (ie, he's a Libertarian).

It's a deadly GE mix.

[killbotfactory]

28. He's not a libertarian...

Sorry...

And a lot of people are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. They don't want the gov't butting in on social issues, and don't want the gov't to go into enourmous defecits.

It's only a deadly mix for Bush, who is the polar opposite.

[janx]

38. Very good point.

Dean is Chimpy's nemesis, absolutely.

[AP]

44. Dean's fiscal 'conservativism' isn't just balanced budgets. Tax breaks

for rich corporations, an antipathy to progressive taxation, and handouts for Wall St are part of his fiscal conservativism.

That's on the same pole as Bush.

[loyalsister]

27. Style vs. strategy

You are discussing two very different things. You have basically been trying, with all of your might to impose what Dean DOES onto who Dean IS. In case you didn't know, this is the same logic fallacy as something like soldiers are evil. AND extremely pathetic to watch you try to pull it off hourly.

"In style, though, he was quite different from the Texas governor, who constantly preached political tolerance and made regular genuflections to Democratic power brokers in the legislature. Governor Dean was blunt and outspoken."
....
"When conservative Democrats seemed as if they might drift into Republican ranks, Dr. Dean set up a series of meetings with them, dispassionately explaining his decision to sign the civil unions bill. He then let the crowd rail at him."

Dean's reputation as one of the strongest Democrats we've got comes from THIS fact. When he takes a position that is in FULL opposition to the other party, he makes no bones about it. He doesn't pretend he's not doing it. He stands up puts them on the defensive and expects the rest of the party to join in both offense and defense.


"Mostly, voters here saw Howard as in the center of his party, perhaps even somewhere between his party and the Republican Party," said John Bloomer, a Republican and the minority leader in the Vermont Senate.

THIS refers to strategy! He gets things done and he admits to being conservative in some areas. The things people here don't get is Republicans don't have a monopoly on "Conservativism." The word has been adopted by Republicans and corrupted.
One of my favorite legislators here casts many "conservative" votes, and guess what? She has been labelled a communist for it. One in particular was related to local control of schools. She voted to allow schools to decide for themselves when they would say the pledge of Allegience. I bet people here would initially call it a "liberal" vote. It wasn't in classic political principle.
She has had support from businesses and medical professionals and has gotten RE-ELECTED then gotten health care legislation supported and passed. It created a safety net that would have left a lot of people dead by now with the budget cuts we're facing because of the crunch we're in now. Compromise is what got it done and kept a number of people alive. Is that not the point?????????????????????

[TeacherCreature]

5. I think this writer is kind of stretching for an angle

Dean's mother inherited 7 million. That doesn't put them anywhere near the Bush family. Dean made something of himself. Bush 1 made something (good lord knows what) of his son.

Laura Bush and I are both in education, that hardly makes us similar.

[stickdog]

11. Bush has always admired Lincoln. Dean has always admired Kennedy.

Bush's wife's name is named Laura. Dean's wife knows another woman named Laura.

Dean can't read enough. Bush can't hardly read.

Dean always balanced his Vermont budgets. Bush has broken every US federal deficit record.

The similarities are uncanny!

[mouse7]

17. Lifetime net worth of 7 mil is not upper class

It's upper middle class. No more.

If middle class people can buy mainstream insurance policies with a payout equal to an estate, it's not a big estate. I don't think it would be too hard to find a fairly resaonably priced life insurance policy with a benefit amount of $7 Mil.

[dsc]

18. Even I find that argument absurd

$7million is lots of money no matter how it is sliced.

[mouse7]

20. No... it's really not. Sucks, huh.

$7 Mil a year is a lot of money. $7 mil total lifetime assets really isn't.

[SahaleArm]

21. $7-Million is a lot of money - Compound that at 5% is $350k/year

That's a lot of wealth any way you cut it; it puts him in the top 1% of America.

[corporatewhore]

34. WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cant fathom seven million what kinda rich people lala land are you living in!!!!!!!!!!!

[janx]

39. Yep. Sometimes perceived similarities serve to emphasize

real differences. That is certainly true in the Dean vs. Chimpy case.

[Toucano]

13. Kick

because the article is worth reading.

[AP]

24. A three bedroom Pk Ave apartment.

I've noticed that everyone wants to focus on the Park Ave apartment as a sign of Dean's modest upbringings. Read the first two paragraphs of this article. Once you get beyond the absurdity of the "Park Ave modesty", you have to wonder, why doesn't anyone want to talk about the estate out on Long Island?

How many people have a Park Ave pied a tere AND a huge mansion within commuting distance of the office in Manhattan?

[AP]

25. A good quote from Ma Dean:

On why Dean's such an egalitarian:

"When I was growing up," she said, "we didn't even treat the servants like servants."

[AP]

26. Another good quote from Ma Dean

On her son marrying J. Steinberg:

"We decided, well, he was never going to belong to the Maidstone Club, anyway."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. A great fact from opensecrets.org!

No. of $2,000+ Contributors

Chimp= 29,806 (73%)
Edwards= 4,396 (65%)

Dean=1,553 (13%)
Kucinich= 179 (11%)


% from Donors of $200 or less

Chimp= 11%
Edwards= 3%

Dean= 56%
Kucinich= 65%



Why this doesn't bother you, I'll never know. It's really quite revealing. http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/donordems.asp

[SahaleArm]

45. Edwards donors make less money and give more.

Average Income: http://www.fundrace.org/avgInc.html

Percent of Income: http://www.fundrace.org/avgPInc.html

[AP]

36. Maybe if Edwards's family had been plutocrats like Dean's

then Edwards would have asked his contributors to break up their donations into multiple small donations.

And if he were the friend of big business that Dean has been, maybe he'd be getting the misleading press that has encouraged Republicans and lots of Democrats into giving him small donations.

[corporatewhore]

35. but wait it is a sign of how modest deans upbringings were

the poor little rich boy had to share a room !! how cramped he must have been!!!

[cryofan]

32. a kick for chameleon-politicians

[madfloridian]

37. Our Dean group shared that article in our mailing list.

Thanks for sharing it. I thought it was a good job done by the reporter, who expressed some reservations but did a fair job. It pictured Dean in a favorable light.

I noticed that here at DU it is ok for the other candidates to be wealthy, but not Dean.

Could you share the reason for that?

[janx]

40. What impresses me is what Dean has done with his

background, as opposed to Chimpy. Chimpy just wasted money. Dean stashes money away and doesn't seem to care much about it. (Except, of course, in the context of this campaign.)

But the most telling factor is that Dean knew that he had to contribute something to society. He is a fiscal conservative (and we need one badly right now) who cares one whole hell of a lot about humanity, about people.

Every time I read one of these articles about Dean's life, upbringing, etc., it only emphasizes the profound *differences* between Chimpy and Dean.

I've been around some old-money people from time to time, and I can tell you that the money itself makes little difference. It's the people's attitudes towards money that matters. This is especially clear-cut in the comparison of Chimpy and Dean, and it's one of the reasons that I relish a contest between the two.

I can't WAIT.

[Hep]

42. Bush, Dean, and the Dreaded Y Chromosome

It was revealed over the holidays that President George W. Bush and former Vermont Governor Howard Brush Dean III share a genetic trait known as the Y chromosome. Scientists have not yet discovered any link between this genetic phenomenon and political policy, but Democratic opposition to Dean are concerned.

"Why has the press not talked about this chromosomal issue?" asked Missouri Representative Dick Gephardt in a press release. MA senator John Kerry, also running for the Democratic presidentiual nomination, noted in his own press release that Dean made quite sure that this genetic trait was well known when he attended his draft physical during the Viet Nam conflict.

Political analysts say this is bad for Dean. They claim that if the mainstream press gets wind of this new controversy, Dean's numbers could drop dramatically.

When asked for comment, the Dean campaign replied, "What do you expect? Governor Dean is the only one running who has a set of balls."