Howard Dean: Hard Work and Frugal Living?

[Jerseycoa]

These two published reports show variant stories of financial help Dean received from his family. I'm not concerned about his money. I am concerned how disparate reports so reliably appear on this potential Democratic nominee. Is there an explanation for this? Perhaps the earlier statement, which is a very direct statement, has been corrected at some point? Thank you for clarifying.


New York Magazine - 2/24/03

The Unlikely Rise of Howard Dean by Meryl Gordon

The Deans have a net worth of $4 million, according to tax returns: He says he received $25,000 from his father at age 21 and made the rest through work, prudent investments, and frugal living.

New York Times - 12/28/03

From Patrician Roots, Dean Set Path of Prickly Independence by Rick Lyman

All told, for instance, Dr. Dean's parents have given him and his family nearly $1 million in cash gifts over the last two decades, including a single gift of $200,000 in the early 1980's. And his wife's parents gave the couple $60,000 in 1985 to help them pay $161,700 in cash for the family's house on Burlington's south side, freeing the couple from monthly mortgage payments.

The Deans have amassed a nest egg of about $4 million, not including the value of their house, despite an annual income that has never exceeded $170,000. Some of it is in land — nearly $700,000 worth, plus the Burlington residence — but the remaining $3.24 million is in cash, bonds and a handful of conservative stocks.

on edit: fixed link

[wyldwolf]

1. Hmm...

The plot thickens.

[thinkahead]

2. what plot?

have you come up with a plot?

[Rose Siding]

3. The plot

where Dean draws breath, the fiend!

[cryofan]

4. <gomer pyle voice> SUR-PRISE SUR-PRISE SUR-PRISE </gomer pyle voice>

This guy tells a different story about something or other every time he turns around, or so it seems....

[TeacherCreature]

you really mean two different reporters tell two different stories, right?

....cause that is what we have hear.
What's next, "Dean reads two different books"?

[LuminousX]

5. Wow, what a scandal...

Is it possible Dean considered all other money other than that $25,000 to be loans?

Keep digging, though, you might find out Dean's grandfather once gave him a rare nickle on his 10th birthday that Dean hasn't acknowledged yet.

[Jerseycoa]

6. "$1 million in cash gifts"

Not loans.

[LuminousX]

7. Who is saying that?

Who is calling it gifts?

AND, if Dean is the one, tell me what difference it makes?

[Jerseycoa]

12. It's the difference

between $25,000 and $1 million. One is true; the other is not. Or can both be true? If one of the reports is incorrect, fine. If not, it's yet another half-assed inconsistency that's going to show up down the line. I'd rather it be corrected here and now, if it can be.

[LuminousX]

18. But WHO is SAYING it?

If Dean says $25,000 and some other person says $1 million, why would I believe that other person. If Dean is the one saying both numbers, then I would want further clarification of how Dean really views the money he received.

Was the $25,000 cash and other moneys in the form of property, securities, and assets?

Keep digging. Boy, I hope those records open up soon for you guys, because this is the cleanest dirt I've ever seen.

[thinkahead]

23. What kind of cash did Clark make talking to Republicans

and cheerleading for their team I wonder?

[SahaleArm]

32. And the relevence of this to Dean? n/t

[thinkahead]

34. I forgot

this was a Bash Dean thread. sorry

however, since you asked...

We could talk numbers like this into the ground:

for example, how much money has Dean made from familial connections as oppposed to how much Clark has raised by sitting on the Board of Directors at various businesses since leaving the military - or how much money he has raised at Republican gatherings, etc.

Numbers can be fun, when you dig into them.

[Hoppin_Mad]

39. A lot more than Dean's parents gave or loaned him

[madfloridian]

17. We can't determine since the first link does not work.

.

[wyldwolf]

8. Does the article say they were loans or Dean thought them to be?

Nope! Says cash/gifts.

But that isn't really the issue.

As said above, Dean changes his story a lot on a lot of things.

[dsc]

9. Of course it couldn't be that one or the other reporter is lying?

nah couldn't be. So when reporters tell us that Clark is a war criminal, as several have, I should believe them since they never lie? Right?

[wyldwolf]

10. ha ha! Now, reporters are LYING about Dean!

[dsc]

13. I have shown several examples of just that

and again should I always believe reporters? Yes or no. The question is a simple one.

[wyldwolf]

16. Really? You have proof that reporters are lying about Dean?

Now, I have an easy out for every negative Clark article.

It was getting tiresome pulling out the fact and figures to debunk them, now I can just say they're lying!

[dsc]

22. Yes I do

Unlike so many here I back up what I say. Read it and weep.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=28577

In this thread are four lies, two about Dean, one about Gephardt and one about Lieberman from two different reporters. When I say that I have proof of something I do.

On edit the several reporters who claim that Clark is a war criminal are they right or not? I have now asked three times. Can I please have an answer?

[wyldwolf]

25. Looks to me like you just choose which conflicting report ...

...you want to believe then lable the other as a liar.

[dsc]

33. Since they both are from reporters

one must be lying. And the Gephardt one I watched at every single debate and that characterization of his story about his son is a lie. You tell me, what is the point of his story at the debates? Is it that God saved his son or health insurance? AND I AM STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER SHOULD I BELIVE OR NOT THE REPORTS THAT CLARK IS A WAR CRIMINAL?

Oh and on the church thing it is a matter of public record the church did own land. So she did lie there too.

[wyldwolf]

37. Wow! What a reaction!

Amazing how far leftists can insert the "Clark war criminal" is everything.

Could it be that Dean gives one answer to one person and changes it the next time it is asked?

Could it be that Dean says one thing: "He says he received $25,000 from his father at age 21 and made the rest through work, prudent investments, and frugal living."

But evidence suggests something else?

"Dr. Dean's parents have given him and his family nearly $1 million in cash gifts over the last two decades, including a single gift of $200,000 in the early 1980's."

[dsc]

40. I am still waiting for an answer

if reporters never lie, and you are the one who said that, then should I believe them when they tell me that Clark is a war criminal? Yes or no.

[madfloridian]

19. Yes, they do it about all the candidates.

.

[Scott Lee]

26. Aren't you folks always screaming about the press covering for Dean?

So which way do you want it....the press lies or it doesn't lie. Pick one.

[wyldwolf]

38. Sorry, it's one of yours claiming the press lies...

[LuminousX]

11. My parents transferred $1,000 to me

once to help pay my rent. They called it a gift. I called it a loan.

Who is calling it a gift? The article? Boy, that is a great source. Is Dean? Then you have a slight story, but still so trivial I can't believe I'm wasting energy even addressing it.

Tell me he got the money from a Nazi uncle and then there is some scandal that can be discussed. Or the money was raised via bootlegging liquor in the 20's.

[Jerseycoa]

20. I don't care

where or how the money was raised. I don't care about the money. I care about whether six months from now, Dean's going to tell some reporter something entirely different.

I'm not looking for an argument. If one of these reports is incorrect, get your campaign to have it corrected. But don't keep shrugging all of this off. How are you expecting voters to trust a candidate when any reader can notice something this glaring?

[LuminousX]

29. I will keep shrugging it off, like all pointless attacks

You want to GET Dean, then find something that has blood, that has human misery attached to it.

How long did we put up with Whitewater investigation? And if Dean does come out in six months and says that he only recieved $30,000 from his family... what will that really mean? I will take it to mean that the actually financial gifts/loans/guaranteed loans/etc. are too complicated to sum up in one simple number.

Who the hell knows how much money their family has helped them with over time? In one estimate he counts the tv he was given, and the other estimate he doesn't.

[madfloridian]

44. You should be standing up for your candidate.

[maddezmom]

27. the reason they may have called it a gift, is for taxes

you can gift an individual 10,000 per year or it used to be that way...not anymore

[LuminousX]

31. Exactly, what we are talking about is perceptions, legalese

and a lot of abstract elements.

All in all, shall we start another Whitewater based on how much money Dean got from his family?

[Jerseycoa]

35. That's not the question, though

Is it $25,000 or $1 million? I don't expect you to know anymore than I do. I just hope there can be more attention paid when these interviews are going on and the articles come out. If Dean ends up to be the candidate, we're all going to be paying for mistakes like this.

[maddezmom]

41. I have no idea if it was 25,000 or 1 mil

and don't care, if he was consistent about the number. But as you have shown he is not. Just because he has some dough doesn't make him a bad guy, but denying it and using it at the same time, doesn't sit well with me.

[TLM]

58. Yeah because we know that the Bush crew want to make a big issue

out of getting support from your father.


Really are you folks this devoid of real issue that you have to attack Dean getting money from his folks over the last 20 years?


Jesus...who cares?

[Scott Lee]

28. how can you LIVE with yourself??

;)

[Brian_Expat]

14. This is the sort of petty sniping that turns Americans off to the party

I could just as easily find several references that pop the "Wesley Clark, hardworking American who rose to the top of the meritocracy through hard work" mythos as well, but I will not because I care about the unity of the party that can beat Bush more than "my candidate or the highway."

It's a shame more non-Dean Democrats cannot do the same.

Dean has gotten to a position of leadership through attracting support within the party, support from people who are traditionally not voters, and support of independents. He did not garner support by attacking John Kerry's wealth, Wesley Clark's history of corporate connections, etc.

I respectfully suggest to Democrats who want their candidates to take the #1 spot from Dean that they'd best develop and articulate some strong policies of their own to gain supporters and grow, rather than try to tear down Dean with constant attacks. Most Dean supporters will simply redouble their support for him if you attack -- but show us a better platform and a positive vision for America, and perhaps we'll listen and move.

As someone who quit the Kerry campaign for the Dean campaign out of this reason, I know of what I speak.

[madfloridian]

15. Your first link does not work.

.

[Jerseycoa]

21. Thanks, fixed now nt

[Brian_Expat]

36. No, I'm afraid you haven't fixed it

You're still launching an unfair attack on a fellow Democrat.

[madfloridian]

42. I had not read that article. That is a wonderful article.

Thanks so much for finding and sharing that. I thought perhaps you were being critical that he was wealthy? I am sure you would not do that. I feel the issues of just exactly how much his father gave him will be clarified.

[Jerseycoa]

47. You're welcome

No I do not criticize him for having money. I wish I had some of it. I do hope the issue will be clarified.

[maddezmom]

46. they are both working for me n/t

[Scott Lee]

24. Oh my great God in heaven....Dean has earned some money!

This is terrible my friends, just terrible. I don't know how we can possibly elect someone who has made good money.

Anyone know how I can get in on some stock in Kerry's Telecom company?

[Jim Sagle]

30. The dead guy's done OK for himself, hasn't he?

;-)

[mandyky]

43. Dean paints his own house

How much more frugal can you get?

[madfloridian]

45. But, doggone it, he is rich.

Can't have that.

[mandyky]

60. Not sure having a $4 million nest egg

makes one rich. Remember the suit story? The man and his family live like ordinary folks. $4 million over 20 years of hard work as doctors and him being a governor shows these folks know the value of saving.

They don't even have cable in their house.

[seventhson]

48. I think this is a fair question

But the stories are pretty much unsourced.

If they said "according to Dean" with specific statements and they were inconsistent, then I think Dean needs to explain it.

However, Reporter's often write what they want to hear. These could be completely wrong statements which need to be clarified.

Reporter's notes are useless because if they wrote it down wrong or misheard or paraphrased then the notes mean nothing.

Get me a tape of Dean saying two totally different things and there is some there there.

But the fact is that where he got the money and how much is irrelevent.

The assertion that Dean either lied or misled can't be proven or disproven by anybody on this board (unless Dean and the reporters post here and they have tapes).

But I think that since there is a discrepancy in the stories, as minor as the issue is, it would be good to have Dean tell us what the Dealio is.

If Dean got started with some 25 large as a gift and then over the years got loans and investments as his career advanced, then that would explain it all.

No big deal.

Mickey Mouse shit, really.

Straws.

Grasping at...


smells of desperation

real desperation that also smells of Rove.


Still pretty irrelevent even though a straightening out of a fair question is not unreasonable to ask for.

[Bucky]

49. I'm a Clarkie and I don't think it's fair

What's the point of this story? That his parents are loaded and that they gave him money? Big deal. He's still done ok in the world on his own. They used their jillions to help their son not have to worry about house payments. As a governor and as a doctor, Dean's done okay enough by himself in life to show he's a capable person.

Unlike cxertain oil-company crashing pampered frat boys I could name.

[Jerseycoa]

51. Nope

Did he receive $25,000 and make the rest of his money himself? Did he receive $1 million and make the rest of the money himself? I don't care either way. I do care that his doubletalking ways are going to lose us the election should he win the nomination. And that is all I care about.

[madfloridian]

50. Over two decades, would it even matter to anyone?

Is there something illegal over two decades with that amount.

[Duder]

53. Might matter to the kids...

Since the second story (unlike the first) is inclusive of family, could be like grand-children's trust funds, charities, etc.

Dean's finances are detailed more thoroughly than most:

http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/50021

[madfloridian]

54. I think we should keep this kicked so we can discover the nefarious deed.

Discover it now rather than later. Maybe someone can find more about it. I did a search at google. Nothing.

Could the reporters have made mistakes? But reporters never do that.

Are we there yet? At the bottom?

Was he bad or good or in-between or is it even significant?

[maddezmom]

59. kick for madfloridian

[madfloridian]

55. Oh, you think he might have not told his kids the truth?

Maybe you meant that another way, since you stated his records were detailed.

[Rose Siding]

52. Presumably, his father bequeathed him something n/t

[Lisa0825]

56. I'm not all that informed on the subject, but could it have been.....

living trusts (or something like that)? I have heard there are different ways to pass on your assets to your children that are better (as far as taxes go) than the typical straight-forward inheritance. I think living trusts was one of the terms I heard. If it is a case like this, then it would not technically be a gift, and goodness knows that if he called it a gift, and it technically wasn't, someone would be all over his ass for that too.

[batman]

57. so he earned 3 mil the old fashioned way and his family gave him a

total of 1 mil. big deal