Kerry Supporters: defend Kerry's support of Free Trade

[Taeger]

I want to know why you would support a candidate who supports sending American jobs overseas. Is he really THAT much different than Bush in that respect????

Does Kerry really know what it's like to lose his job that was globablized??? Does Kerry understand that globablization is weakening our nation??? Does Kerry realize that we are outsourcing defense components to CHINA?!?!?!?!?!

Can we defend ourselves and be a truly independent nation if all our manufacturing is done in CHINA?????

Why can't Kerry oppose WTO and NAFTA????

[Rowsdower]

1. <crickets>

At what point will people wake up and see the smart choice is Dean?

[Name removed]

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[rucky]

4. How's Dean & Kerry's NAFTA/WTO stances any different?

reform or nuke - what's it going to be?

and if it's reform, what's the plan? why would the entrenched corporate powers go along with reform, when all the government really has the authority to do is stay in or get out?

and what are the implications of getting out? Is protectionism really the only alternative to hegemony? How did we ever do it before NAFTA?

[Taeger]

5. Steps to kill WTO ...

Steps to repeal

1) The two houses of congress pass a resolution annulling the WTO and NAFTA agreements on a 6 month timetable. Intermediate tariffs are set on certain goods that are being hemorraged by our country.

2) Countries like India, China and Mexico FREAK OUT!!!!! At this point, they know they are going to loose their shirts and have MASSIVE problems with their domestic industries. They BEG Washington for a new, favorable trade agreemant.

3) America gets what it wants. We get a foreign minimum wage to TRULY help people poor people in foeign countries. We get changes in foreign OSHA style worker protection and better environmental standards overseas. We get a resolution that America should be largely self-sufficient.

AMERICA SHOULD NOT BE DEPENDENT ON ANY COUNTRY FOR ANYTHING!!!!


Yes, the only way to "reform" WTO is to nuke it. Otherwise, no one will take us seriously.

Of course, if you take the weasly "New trade agreemants should protect workers, wages, environment .. blah, blah, blah" you're not really saying much. The existing trade agreemants are seriously hemorraging jobs.

I'm not picking on Kerry specifically. I think that ALL presidential candidates should favor nuking NAFTA and WTO. Furthermore, Kerry really hasn't made this a big issue in the campaign. This leads me to believe he doesn't want to alienate any of those big money special interest contributors.

To date, only three Democratic presidential candidates have expressed STRONG objections to Free Trade. Dennis Kucinich, Al Sharpton and John Edwards. On that basis I'd have to say that Al Sharpton would make a better president than John Kerry. But the fact that Edwards is in second and DOES OPPOSE NAFTA OPENLY pushes my primary support behind Edwards!!!!!

At this point, anyone who supports WTO and NAFTA are unfit to be American. They are ALL traitors!!!!

[Name removed]

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[papau]

6. sigh - Kerry has Gep's position - fair trade w/ enviro/labor rules

and I see nothing wrong with that. It is also Edwards position - but Edwards says it better than Kerry.

What other positions are there? redue NAFTA/WTO - of course - but that means agreements - or pull out and kill current trade? A sunset makes good policy - but a pull out is economically bad - in my opinion.

So give away jobs via Bush's tax law changes and non-enforcement of IRS code 482, or go with Kerry's fair trade?

[Taeger]

8. Economically bad????

So what your saying is that there will be a economic hit from withdrawing. Supporters off free trade will use this argument as a bargaining tool to keep us from pulling out.

How bad would this affect be today??? How bad would that affect be 5 years from now when even more of the manufactured goods we use are made overseas. So in ten years, would we be able to completely pull out without a total collapse and MAJOR sacrifice in our way off life????

The argument you make is one for pulling out ASAP. The longer we stay in, the harder it will be to get out. We are like Napolean on the steps of Moscow. They will try to barter with us to "change the nature" of the agreemant. But winter is approaching. Once winter comes, we will be destroyed. We will be at the mercy of the international corporations who are in control of the WTO.

THAT will be the end of democracy across the ENTIRE globe and the official beginning of the New World Order - Global Feudal Corpratism!!!!!

[papau]

13. A sunset is a planned end to current agreement - and would be easier on

all of us.

I agree the temp econ hurt can not stop any push for new fair trade agreements

and pulling out of the WTO is on the to-do if they pretend we are violating their rules by putting econ/labor law onto the table.

But given Kerry's power in the Senate - I really do not see the "bad" - guess I see a glass half full - that becomes full with election to Pres.

[Mairead]

18. Well, that's what DK is proposing: a 6-month 'sunset'

People who want to preserve EFFUSTA and the WTO argue as though trade will stop unless those anti-democratic treaties are allowed to remain in force. That's utter nonsense! We traded before, we'll trade after.

The principal difference will be that trade will be controlled by elected governmental representatives again, not people appointed by business owners.

EFFUSTA and the WTO are run by business owners. They are not accountable to anyone but themselves. Small wonder, then, that they're shipping our livelihoods abroad and demanding that we guarantee their profits!

Clinton and the DLC let us down completely. Their rhetoric was that it would benefit us, but they lied. There's no other word for it: they lied.

If we fail to reject the DLC candidates, if we lie to ourselves about how it will somehow be different this time, then we will deserve the destruction they will again bring on us. No matter what they say, the DLC and their candidates are not on our side. It really is that simple.

[corporatewhore]

10. sure he has a nice position but look at his ACTIONS!!!!

Sure yeah he tried to get the ammendment in about having workers rights in bush's fast track to the FTAA but it didnt make it in and kerry still voted for it look at his record tell me whats fair about nafta/gatt/imf/wto a pull out economically bad? check it out NAFTA has spurred a $418 billion trade deficit Since NAFTA was enacted 10 years ago, the U.S. trade deficit with Mexico and Canada has ballooned.straight from the horses mouth-DK

[papau]

14. please check the actual data below : Canada and Mexico are 95 out of 549

http://www.bea.gov/bea/newsrel/tradnewsrelease.htm

with spreadsheet

http://www.bea.gov/bea/newsrelarchive/2004/trad1203.xls


In millions of dollars. Details may not equal totals due to rounding. (-) Represents zero or less than one half of measurement shown. (R) Revised.
(X) Not applicable. This exhibit is not additive. See footnote (2)
Balance
Item(1) December November Cumulative
2003 2003 to-date

Total Balance of Payments Basis -47,417 (R) -42,937 -549,410

Net Adjustments -1,022 (R) -1,007 -13,711

Total Census Basis -46,395 (R) -41,930 -535,699
North America -7,588 (R) -7,304 -95,012
Canada -4,447 (R) -4,281 -54,396
Mexico -3,141 -3,023 -40,616
Western Europe -11,103 -7,833 -101,325
Euro Area (2) -8,191 -6,006 -75,421
European Union -10,290 -7,354 -94,262
Austria -308 -256 -2,697
Belgium 320 474 5,077
Finland -91 -97 -1,884
France -1,415 -1,174 -12,153
Germany -4,134 -3,508 -39,199
Italy -1,371 -1,131 -14,867
Netherlands 999 1,151 9,731
Spain -158 103 -773
Sweden -858 -618 -7,899
United Kingdom -1,055 -582 -8,772
Other EU -2,219 -1,717 -20,827
European Free Trade
Association -667 -477 -6,039
Norway -288 -195 -3,745
Switzerland -332 -272 -2,008
Other EFTA -47 -10 -287
Other Western Europe -145 -2 -1,023
Eastern Europe/FSR -748 -614 -11,211
Hungary -93 -112 -1,765
Poland -45 -46 -567
Former Soviet Republics -461 -319 -6,615
Russia -485 -304 -6,148
Other FSR 24 -15 -467
Other EE -149 -137 -2,263
Pacific Rim Countries -18,488 -19,615 -229,968
Australia 522 481 6,690
China -9,874 -10,818 -123,961
Japan -5,700 -5,728 -65,965
Newly Industrialized
Countries(NICS) -1,606 -1,580 -20,867
Hong Kong 691 498 4,692
Korea -1,403 -1,197 -12,865
Singapore -46 215 1,418
Taiwan -849 -1,095 -14,112
Other Pacific Rim(3) -1,830 -1,970 -25,864
South/Central America -2,892 -1,677 -26,821
Argentina -49 -24 -734
Brazil -530 -391 -6,666
Colombia -127 -181 -2,631
Other S/C A (3) -2,186 -1,082 -16,791
OPEC -4,619 -3,919 -51,037
Indonesia(3) -413 -523 -7,000
Nigeria -1,000 -505 -9,365
Saudi Arabia -802 -995 -13,473
Venezuela(3) -1,513 -1,189 -14,305
Other OPEC -890 -706 -6,895
Other Countries -2,906 -2,455 -41,480
Egypt 143 123 1,516
South Africa -90 -11 -1,816
Other -2,959 -2,567 -41,180
Uniden. ctys (4) 21 64 186
Timing Adjustments (X) -288 -335

[RedDawnRising]

7. It keeps his stock portfolio nice and plump ? Good for us all !

[Cocoa]

9. I don't like Kerry's trade stance

but after Gephardt endorsed him, he said in an interview that Kerry was moving closer to his own position.

And now, the AFL-CIO has endorsed him, and trade in general has become a huge issue, so his future trade policy could improve.

And there's absolutely no doubt that it will be radically better than Bush.

[eridani]

11. This is what could lose him the election

People of all political stripes would get behind Kucinich on this. Carl Worden doesn't yet know about DK, obviously.

http://sierratimes.com/03/12/29/ar_carlworden.htm

I am a Christian conservative who voted for Bush in 2000, and I write for a largely conservative and excellent Internet news and opinion publication called The Sierra Times. Remarkably, the positive responses I received from that article ran 8 to 2, 2 being those who said I was dead, absolutely DEAD wrong. The fact that largely conservative readers responded as positively as they did, means I am not wrong, and I am sticking to my prediction that Howard Dean will be sworn in as the 44th President of the United States.

The issue that I believe will put Dean right over the top will be his condemnation of NAFTA/GATT, free trade, and his pledge to end our participation in the World Trade Organization. If Dean wants to win by a comfortable margin, all he has to do is THAT. The massive number of red states that voted for Bush last election will turn to blue, and Dean will waltz into the White House like a halfback who strolls untouched into the end zone. End of game.

Of course, I have no idea what Dean’s position is on free trade, NAFTA/GATT or the WTO. As far as I know, he hasn’t said. Maybe he’s saving that for the finishing shot. I’m speculating of course, but Mr. Dean, if you are reading this, I just gave you the keys to the White House.

[corporatewhore]

12. Did you know Texas GOP is more proggressive than kerry on freetrade

they want to get the fuck out

http://www.txdemocrats.org/gopplatform2002.htm

We support business opportunity and oppose the previous Democrat administration’s advocacy of intrusive government-industry partnerships based on foreign models. We urge the repeal of NAFTA, GATT, and any other international trade agreements that do not promote free trade, and withdrawal from membership in the World Trade Organization (WTO) We believe that we should call for the immediate withdrawal of the United States from any agreements that compromise national sovereignty, independence, self-sufficiency, and national security. We urge Congress to authorize fund expenditures and audit measures on research and development of alternative fuels to reduce the United States dependency on OPEC and ensure no financial support of terrorist sponsoring nations.

I only agree that we need to get outta nafta etc

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. if the Dems won't do it, a third party candidate will

Chances are a third party candidate will put Bush in office - but *everyone* in the political class knows that this is a big hot potato that no one wants to touch. The middle class - Republican and Democratic - by wide margins - is strongly against "free trade agreements" like NAFTA and GATT.

If the Democratic party doesn't nominate someone willing to consistently and strongly attack corporations for outsourcing and promise to get rid of the new multinational corporate government of the WTO and the like, a third party candidate will.

Will that third party candidate draw more votes from Bush or the Democrat? That's the $100,000 question.

[Alinsky]

17. They don't have to fix it anymore

In 2000 the Republicans ran Nader to take away the liberal votes in swing states and they fixed the votes in states like Florida. In 2004 they could not use Nader to fix 2004 because the liberal democrats figured it out in 2000 a few weeks before the election. They probably cannot outright fix the 2004 election like in Florida, because they don't want a media circus like 2000, not so much because they won’t fix it again just that the international media will make America a subject of political jokes.

Even if Nader runs again he will make no difference. What happened to Dean will happen to Kerry but even worse. In 2004 Bush will win 85% to 15% Kerry. With odds like that Bush is already the unofficial winner in 2004.

I am therefore calling Bush the winner in 2004.

[gate of the sun]

16. since when did Dean condemn Nafta?

you are so wrong......Kucinich said he would abolish Nafta and the Wto Dean said he would revise it...but Idon't think it included abolishment or anything that would benefit us except maybe enviromentally.