Obama campaign a bunch of hypocrites, smears Hillary and then backtracks

[Herman Munster]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/us/politics/15clintons.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&hp

Shortly after the Clinton campaign released the financial information, the campaign of Senator Barack Obama, the Illinois Democrat, circulated to news organizations — on what it demanded be a not-for-attribution-basis — a scathing analysis. It called Mrs. Clinton “Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)” in its headline, referring to the investment in India and Mrs. Clinton’s fund-raising efforts among Indian-Americans. The analysis also highlighted the acceptance by Mr. Clinton of $300,000 in speech fees from Cisco, a company the Obama campaign said has moved American jobs to India.

A copy of the document was obtained by Mrs. Clinton’s campaign, which provided it to The New York Times. The Clinton campaign has long been frustrated by the effort by Mr. Obama to present his campaign as above the kind of attack politics that Mr. Obama and his aides say has led to widespread disillusionment with politics by many Americans.

Asked about the document, Bill Burton, a spokesman for Mr. Obama, said: “We did give reporters a series of comments she made on the record and other things that are publicly available to anyone who has access to the Internet. I don’t see why anyone would take umbrage with that.” Asked why the Obama campaign had initially insisted that it not be connected to the document, Mr. Burton replied, “I’m going to leave my comment at that.”

[LoZoccolo]

1. Self-delete...bah... n/t

[Double T]

2. Looks like things are going to start getting ugly between the Democratic.........

presidential candidates; nothing like a good political 'civil' war.

[cascadiance]

30. Another excellent reason fo Gore to stay out until September!

When he'll emerge from the ashes of this mess.. :)

[Double T]

34. Ahhhh Yes. Al Gore will rise up from the ashes like "The Phoenix"...........

I like THAT; hope your vision is true for ALL our sake.

[PATRICK]

3. Or maybe

with the attack on an Obama campaign finance source there is some mutual slinging going on, even if not necessarily originating from either camp. Blood in the water sort of thing. Sounds like ordinary politics spinning around the evils of money. Obama is trying harder to get above this for many reasons, but in this system you can't, especially if every staffer is considered an avatar of the actual candidate. Obama is certainly not as corrupt as his discredited donor, but I hope this stresses the need to get big money out of politics? As for Hillary I guess the teflon is supposed to be forming against her donor relationships? Small potatoes versus hardcore GOP moneyrakers, but the issue is the money need itself.

[Bitwit1234]

4. Obama's campaign slinging the mud

has to do so with his knowledge. Just like the swift boats slamming Kerry's military service. They did it with full knowledge and support of bush. If this is not with knowledge of Obama where is his denial.

[Herman Munster]

5. it will be his downfall

he put himself into a box with the "new politics" meme. Anything sleazy out of his campaign will now will raise the hypocrisy question.

[snowbear]

6. Good for Obama -- "Keeping them Honest"

Somebody has to do it.

[illinoisprogressive]

7. Herman, I think you better go have lillie and grandpa calm you down. You are getting worked up.

[SaveElmer]

36. Alert....Irony overload....

Too much irony to process...brain exploding....pot, kettle, black.....ahhhhhhhhhh

[ronnykmarshall]

45. No shit!

[Colobo]

8. Obama vs. Hillary, Round 1.

This is politics, Herman.

[ElizabethDC]

9. But it sounds like the kind of politics Obama says he wasn't gonna engage in.

Hence the hypocrisy.

Obviously, most if not all campaigns engage in this sort of thing. But he shouldn't pretend to be above it.

[calteacherguy]

11. What kind of politics? Truthful politics? Was something said that was untruthful or misleading? nt

[zanne]

39. I doubt that Hillary will be an angel in this campaign. nt

[Colobo]

12. Obama is a smart dude

He's "new type of politics" is nothing but a grassroots-based campaign, something McGovern and Dean have done before.

The guy is an attack dog, just like Hill and John, and most saavy politicians are. In fact, I feel people are actually expecting Obama to show some guts and go after Hillary.

[ElizabethDC]

16. Yeah, but he's not going after her out in the open

it doesn't make him look so strong if others are doing his dirty work for him (not that Hillary's people don't engage in the same thing, I just don't think it shows any guts on her part - just politics as usual).

[rinsd]

35. Agreed though something is happening with the Obama campaign.

You don't start this type of attack unless you feel the campaign has stagnated a little. Its not like Edwards attacking Clinton and Obama at the debates (that was desperation) but it shows the campaign is concerned about their momentum (or perhaps Hilary's momentum).

The next big "beanchmark" for candidates in the 2nd Q fudnraising numbers.

[zanne]

40. Wel, as an Obama volunteer....

I don't see or sense anything negative happening.

[calteacherguy]

10. Was anything said untruthful? I don't understandn the objection by Clinton.

Honetsly, I don't get it. :shrug:

[snowbear]

13. The only thing untruthful was Herman's thread title.

~~~~

[illinoisprogressive]

14. Eliz DC, not unless someone starts first. then all bets are off.

and the clinton campaign let it be known they were going to try to destroy Obama by planting stories.
so, they have and he is answering back. You never hit first but, if someone throws a punch, you defend yourself.

[Herman Munster]

15. where is your evidence

I'm tired of your unfounded accusations with no evidence. Is it all in your mind?

[ElizabethDC]

18. "The Clinton campaign let it be known they wre going to try to destroy Obama by planting stories"

when did they let this be known? I totally missed it.

Additonally, I don't agree with "you never hit first" - in a campaign, there's nothing wrong with being on the offensive - you don't want to constantly be playing catchup (I'm not referring to this spat specifically, just in general).

[blm]

33. The Clintons have way more experience undermining other Democrats than they do opposing BushInc.

This talk by historian Douglas Brinkley occurred in April 2004:


http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


Whom does the biographer think his subject will pick as a running mate? Not Hillary Rodham Clinton. "There's really two different Democratic parties right now: there's the Clintons and Terry McAuliffe and the DNC and then there's the Kerry upstarts. John Kerry had one of the great advantages in life by being considered unable to get the nomination in December. He watched every Democrat in the country flee from him, and the Clintons really stick the knife in his back a bunch of times, so he's able to really see who was loyal to him and who wasn't. That's a very useful thing in life."




http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward



Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg |

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.
On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.
>>>>>>>>




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg




Wonder why?


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[cadmium]

48. I dont think they are above planting

this forgotten story in the Moonie magazine. When the story was loudly debunked in the mainstream news the net effect was that doubts were sown about Obama and the Clinton camp looked like they were victimized.

http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm

Maybe, as it was spun, it was a two for one hit against Obama and Clinton by the Moonies. My own personal opinion is that it is just as likely that the Clinton camp did plant the story.

[Forkboy]

17. FRONTRUNNER FIGHT!!!!!!!!!

:popcorn:

[illinoisprogressive]

19. I like the thought of summer being spiced up with a food fight.

[mckeown1128]

20. Does anyone find it funny that

Obama supposedly sent this letter out to all the news organizations but the NY Times had to get their copy from the Clinton campaign. Sounds like a fake. If you read the article Obama's camp does not claim that they wrote this letter but that they did send a letter criticizing Clinton. Smells funny...

[madrchsod]

22. it`s the times--the sun had it in full

[madrchsod]

21. to understand what happened and why this is important

one should not rely on the new york times...try the new york sun who published one very good article on the obama press release which is printed in full and one on hillary`s and bill`s involvement with indian business men here and in india.

http://www.nysun.com/article/56332?page_no=1
Clinton Taps Newly Active Indian Donors - June 12, 2007 - The New York Sun

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2007/06/obama-oppo-targets-hillarys-india.html
Obama Oppo Targets Hillary's India Ties - Latest Politics Blog

[Capn Sunshine]

23. Oh Jesus Jumping Keerist on a fucking pogo stick

What IS it with you people?

How about something substantive and fact based?
Lighten the fuck up; you are ruining DU for the rest of us.

This so totally reminds me of the anti-Howard Dean campaign in 2004.
THAT got so bad we started our own website where we could discuss politics without the flamebait. Course that didn't last long either lol

[ElizabethDC]

24. Yeah, because nobody ever says anything negative and factless about Hillary

some Obama supporters try to smear Hillary and some Hillary supporters go on the attack after Obama. Whether DU is ruined for you by this post depends on whose side you're on. Just like with the anti-Dean sentiment - there was plenty of anti-Kerry sentiment, too, IIRC. None of this stuff is one-sided.

[Tellurian]

25. Well, here's something to chew on .. to calm your nerves

regarding your sainted candidate:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/353829,CST-NWS-rez23.article

and this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3316428#3317723

[TeamJordan23]

26. Maybe you forgot about Whitewater?

[Tellurian]

37. I didn't forget..

can you provide a link to the outcome?

That would be great..

[rinsd]

46. Ah yes the $40M effort by the GOP that came up with bupkis.

I have a faint recall of it.

[Kingstree]

27. Hillary campaign started the Smears with Him and the School

he went to when he was in elementary school.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rinsd]

32. You believe Insight magazine then ...nuff said (nt)

[ElizabethDC]

29. There was never any evidence that that came from the Hillary camp

the source of the story (including the source of the report that Hillary's people were behind it) was a right wing news source that has little (if any) credibility.

[rinsd]

31. You buy the RWers two for one on that?

[MGKrebs]

47. I thought it was in his own book?

[churchofreality]

38. He's a punk-ass and she will destroy him

He's messing with the wrong person. Not only does he come off as a hypocrite, but does he really want to have her people doing after him?

[Tellurian]

41. Obama is hollow..

Like a porcelain statue admired for it's beauty and looks. You might be right about the "punk thing". I've never thought of him in that way, perhaps because I've never met him personally. I see him more as a puppet, a 'Sesame Street' character, manipulated by scripted handlers.

[cascadiance]

42. And Hillary isn't?....

Still waiting for Gore to get in later so that we don't have to pay attention to this fake DLC slugfest any longer!

[Tellurian]

49. Is Gore running? I must have missed the announcement..

I don't think he will!

[goodhue]

43. Here is a link to one of the memos in question . . .

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/memo1.pdf

I'm no fan of Hillary but neither can I abide the racist tone of this attack memo.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

44. Agreed. We need to always condemn racism, even when HE uses it nt