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"The American Left's Silly Victim Complex"... Matt Taibbi

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:05 PM
Original message
"The American Left's Silly Victim Complex"... Matt Taibbi
Not someone I would normally agree with...but he has alot of stuff here that is right on...



The American Left's Silly Victim Complex

Matt Taibbi

At a time when someone should be organizing forcefully against the war in Iraq and engaging middle America on the alarming issue of big-business occupation of the Washington power process, the American left has turned into a skittish, hysterical old lady, one who defiantly insists on living in the past, is easily mesmerized by half-baked pseudo-intellectual nonsense, and quick to run from anything like real conflict or responsibility.

It shies away from hardcore economic issues but howls endlessly about anything that sounds like a free-speech controversy, shrieking about the notorious bugbears of the post-9/11 “police state” (the Patriot Act, Total Information Awareness, CARNIVORE, etc.) in a way that reveals unmistakably, to those who are paying close attention, a not-so-secret desire to be relevant and threatening enough to warrant the extralegal attention of the FBI. It sells scads of Che t-shirts ($20 at the International ANSWER online store) and has a perfected a high-handed tone of moralistic finger-wagging, but its organizational capacity is almost nil. It says a lot, but does very little.

The sad truth is that if the FBI really is following anyone on the American left, it is engaging in a huge waste of time and personnel. No matter what it claims for a self-image, in reality it’s the saddest collection of cowering, ineffectual ninnies ever assembled under one banner on God’s green earth. And its ugly little secret is that it really doesn’t mind being in the position it’s in – politically irrelevant and permanently relegated to the sidelines, tucked into its cozy little cottage industry of polysyllabic, ivory tower criticism. When you get right down to it, the American left is basically just a noisy Upper West side cocktail party for the college-graduate class.

...

This is another dirty little secret of the left – the fact that, at least when it comes to per-capita income, those interminable right-wing criticisms about liberals being “elitists” are actually true. According to a 2004 Pew report, Americans who self-identify as liberals have an average annual income of $71,000 – the highest-grossing political category in America. They’re also the best-educated class, with over one in four being post-graduates.....And there’s probably no political movement in history that’s been sillier than the modern American left.


He quotes Bernie Sanders extensively...



“A lot of these folks really don’t have a lot of contact with working-class people. They’re not comfortable with working-class people. They’re more comfortable with environmentalists, with well-educated people. And it’s their issues that matter to them.”

...

“Unfortunately, today, when you talk about the ‘American left,’” he (Sanders) says, “as often as not you’re talking about wealthy folks who are concerned about the environment (which is enormously important) who are concerned about women’s rights (which are enormously important) and who are concerned about gay rights (which are enormously important).



Taibbi even seems to recognize the real purpose of the DLC was to reverse the tide of defeats Democrats had suffered...


Much more at the link...

http://adbusters.org/the_magazine/71/The_American_Lefts_Silly_Victim_Complex.html




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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. What a crock of shit. What parts do you think are "right on."
I didn't see any. Just a bunch of tired talking points.
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. American Left = DLC in this article
Taibbi has written in the past about the the DLC and the Lieberman is wrong on so many issues. When he says the American left, I take it as him meaning the DLC types that are viewed by the Media as being the American left.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Nope...
Read the piece...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think you are reading this differently than I am. Here are 2 paragraphs.
"Sanders agrees, saying that “where the money comes from” is definitely one of the reasons that the so-called liberals in Washington – i.e. the Democrats – tend not to get too heavily into financial issues that affect ordinary people. This basically regressive electoral formula has been a staple of the Democratic Party ever since the Walter Mondale fiasco in the mid-eighties prompted a few shrewd Washington insiders to create the notorious “pro-business” political formula of the Democratic Leadership Council, which sought to end the party’s dependence upon labor money by announcing a new willingness to sell out on financial issues in exchange for support from Wall Street. Once the DLC’s financial strategy helped get Bill Clinton elected, no one in Washington ever again bothered to question the wisdom of the political compromises it required.

Within a decade, the process was automatic – Citibank gives money to Tom Daschle, Tom Daschle crafts the hideous Bankruptcy Bill, and suddenly the Midwestern union member who was laid off in the wake of Democrat-passed NAFTA can’t even declare bankruptcy to get out from the credit card debt he incurred in his unemployment. He will now probably suck eggs for the rest of his life, paying off credit card debt year after year at a snail’s pace while working as a non-union butcher in a Wal-Mart in Butte. Royally screwed twice by the Democratic Party he voted for, he will almost certainly decide to vote Republican the first time he opens up the door to find four pimply college students wearing I READ BANNED BOOKS t-shirts taking up a collection to agitate for dolphin-safe tuna."

I think you need to read it again. I see no sympsthy there for the DLC.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Didn't say sympathy...
Said a recognition of why the DLC was formed...two entirely different things...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Right, the DLC was formed so they could screw average people...
by getting all the money they needed from corporations. They did it, too.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That is not what it says...nt
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. sure it is.
This basically regressive electoral formula has been a staple of the Democratic Party ever since the Walter Mondale fiasco in the mid-eighties prompted a few shrewd Washington insiders to create the notorious “pro-business” political formula of the Democratic Leadership Council, which sought to end the party’s dependence upon labor money by announcing a new willingness to sell out on financial issues in exchange for support from Wall Street.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Exactly...
The point of the DLC was to reverse the endless electoral disaster's brought on by the move to the left of the national party....

I didn't say Taibbi like the DLC, but he recognized the motivation for its inception. Needless to say I disagree with his assessment...

However, it does make what he says about the left wing today more credible right...I mean he certainly cannot be considered a DLC stooge now can he?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Taibbi is most certainly no DLC stooge...
He is basically giving a shout out to the left to get themselves better organized and quit being lazy.

You don't seem to have a good grasp of the article.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. COurse I do...
You focused on the DLC part...it was only a small part of what I posted...

I don't think he is giving them a shout out to get better organized...I think he is giving a shout out for them to reorient their focus
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I think he's throwing up his hands and saying "I give up, these folks are nuts."
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I think so too...
Sadly. Liberalism has become identified with all the wrong things.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. how so?
Reorient in what way?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. ...
Away from being a "noisy Upper West side cocktail party for the college-graduate class," and toward being a movement truly dedicated to the working class...

That's my take, and I think what Bernie Sanders is saying...
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. fair enough. n/t
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
69. That is EXACTLY what it says, in plain language
in the two paragraphs about the DLC's sell-out of working people for corporate $$. If those two paragraphs do not mean exactly that, then what do they mean?
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
60. Madflo, you might want to revisit the writing Taibbi did for The Nation
during the 2004 campaign. IIRC he excoriated all the Dems excepting Kucinich--and that, needless to say, includes the sainted Dean.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Someone gave me a copy of AdBusters once
The writing struck me as smug, and as anti-corporate as they seemed to be, the magazine seemed awfully high-end to me. Speaking of ivory towers and such. Left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
51. It's kind of ironic that AdBusters embodies a lot of things
which the author finds wrong with the Left.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. CROCK ALERT. Why do "WE" let "THEM" define us? The op is a CROP OF
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've been saying what Taibbi's saying since I've started posting
Everyone laughs at me because I think the Dems should struggling Americans at the forefront, instead of appealing solely to caviar leftists.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. How do they appeal soley to "caviar leftists"
Do you know any? Can you point any out?

I just have a sinking feeling of stereotyping here. Are you talking about people as you know them, or as you imagine they are.
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
50. I've mingled with the caviar left n/t
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
66. Oh stop! Many of us are not part of the investor elite - Liberals NOT Leftists.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. David Sirota: "“Perhaps what the real issue is that the left is not really a grassroots movement,”
Great article.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
67. So you agree that the DLC sold out working people for corportate dollars, yes?
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 07:23 AM by kenzee13
Or is it a "great article" except for these paragraphs - the only section in the article with any meat to it:

This basically regressive electoral formula has been a staple of the Democratic Party ever since the Walter Mondale fiasco in the mid-eighties prompted a few shrewd Washington insiders to create the notorious “pro-business” political formula of the Democratic Leadership Council, which sought to end the party’s dependence upon labor money by announcing a new willingness to sell out on financial issues in exchange for support from Wall Street...

...Within a decade, the process was automatic – Citibank gives money to Tom Daschle, Tom Daschle crafts the hideous Bankruptcy Bill, and suddenly the Midwestern union member who was laid off in the wake of Democrat-passed NAFTA can’t even declare bankruptcy to get out from the credit card debt he incurred in his unemployment. He will now probably suck eggs for the rest of his life, paying off credit card debt year after year at a snail’s pace while working as a non-union butcher in a Wal-Mart in Butte. Royally screwed twice by the Democratic Party...


(all emphasis added)
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'll say it - he's got some good points.
Some that are fairly ridiculous - no, the American Left does not consist of those who make $71k plus - but the quotes from Sanders are correct, from what I see. From my pov, we've lost the ability to work together across issue boundaries, and it's killing us. I don't think we need to become chess-playing wonks, but we do need to organize.

I know I'm saying "we" here - I mean progressives, not you, Elmer.
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. The people who DEFINE the left ARE making that much money
We let the elites define who we are. I'm talking about these Sex and the City yuppies who are in between their second orgy and third snort of coke right now.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. media-drive stereotype.
Folks like Jim Hightower don't get the same coverage.
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Not a media-driven stereotype. I've seen it with my own eyes n/t
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. you've seen the "definition of the left"?
I don't doubt that those folks exist.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. What does one wear as a spectator to a yuppie orgie?
Interesting hobby.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. My question is, where ARE these yuppie orgies?
Just askin'

;)
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Manhattan
I dress normally and leave before the debauchery starts.

I know these people aren't true leftists, but as far as media are concerned, they define the left, which drives me insane.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. To be frank, I don't give a shit what people do on their free time....
I also don't care what they make, or where they live, or where they sleep, if they vote and support leftist causes and working people, that's great. Then again, I also think you are full of shit, but that's just my personal opinion.
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. How am I full of shit? What do you think young rich people do in their spare time? n/t
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. I guess that depends on the individual, not the group, don't you think?
All generalizations are wrong, including this one.
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. You're 100% right. But I am NOT making my anecdote up!!!! n/t
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. First you offer no proof, second it has no relation to this thread...
and Third, I don't believe you.
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. How can I offer proof? Do you want pictures? n/t
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
76. Sounds like the '80s to me.
I exited a few parties myself. Then wasn't invited back.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. folks like David Sirota.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Again, do you know the people you're talking about
or is it only how you imagine some people act.

I haven't heard "yuppies" used in years, and using my own stereotype, I should think that most of them would be Conservative.

Orgies and coke?

Sounds more like the 80's than now, frankly.
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. I'm not imagining it. I'm just out of college. It's a reality.
They're Thomas Friedman-style in economic policy, and liberal in social policy.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
54. This is where I break from this group.
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 12:21 AM by AX10
I live on the east coast and I do not mingle only with the "yuppie" Sex and the City types. I am also pro-gun and have some other views that would not be looked well upon by this group. However, this group is a very small part of the party. The VAST majority of the party is made up of people who are not like this.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. An article replete with stereotypes, and its supposed to be somehow insightful?
This whole "mystique" about liberals is mostly bullshit, even the poll he cites, simply because even those on the political left aren't all liberals, and most shy away from that label. He simplifies reality to such a level, he's almost imitating Thomas Friedman here, and he HATES that guy. I guess the old adage is true, you do eventually become what you hate.

The fact of the matter is that the American Left is finally organizing around economic, and not exclusively social, issues. The American Left is not just concentrated in Hollywood or New York, its nationwide, and this stereotype of "Latte sipping Liberals" is incorrect.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. And sounds a bit too much like Rush Limbaugh to me
I do hate oversimplifications.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Not Rush, pseudo-intellectualism at least SOUNDS intelligent, even if incorrect...
Edited on Fri Jun-15-07 08:36 PM by Solon
Even I won't go there concerning the author of this piece. Rush would just spew vitriol without any reasoning behind it, this guy spewed the vitriol then tried to put reasoning behind it. He failed, obviously, however at least he tried.

The problem is that the perception of Liberals is wrong, but if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes "truth". The article also fails to mention that the Left CAN and does multi-task. This reminds me of the oversimplification of "hippies" and the 1960s anti-war movement, which was constantly called upper-class and intellectual, when in reality a large cross section of people participated in the movement. The fact that a large cross section of people are participating in this current round of protest, pro-peace, pro-fair trade, whatever. They are also stereotyped as upper class elitists tells us what the MEDIA's bias is, not what reality is.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #27
61. Matt Taibbi is a major, major
asshole IMO. I hate that creep, I truly do. Anyone else remember the truly bizarre writing he did for The Nation during the 2004 campaign? I swear the sonofabitch is an RNC plant...
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #24
59. +1
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
32. Darn those issues people anyway.
In order to make peace with the right, we must first cooperate with them in giving up women's right to an abortion, the rights of the gay community.

Issues issues.

Taibbi's article this time is very convoluted. I think he is in his typically angry mode and just lashing out.

And hey, you DLC folks here....any excuse to bash a lefty...eh?

And if someone like Taibbi does...that it is better because he writes for Rolling Stone.

Just another way to put people down.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. hey, mf, that's pretty funny
I'd be willing to bet that if a cease-fire was called on DU between the left and the centrists, the left would be the first to break it. You dish it out, but squeal like little piggies when you get it back.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
36. More Taibbi....how about it.
http://nypress.com/17/48/news&columns/taibbi.cfm

"We've got to repudiate, you know, the most strident and insulting anti-American voices out there sometimes on our party's left... We can't have our party identified by Michael Moore and Hollywood as our cultural values.

—Al From,
CEO, Democratic Leadership Council

You know, let's let Hollywood and the Cannes Film Festival fawn all over Michael Moore. We ought to make it pretty clear that he sure doesn't speak for us when it comes to standing up for our country.

—Will Marshall, President of the Progressive Policy Institute, the think-tank of the DLC

THE FIRST THING I thought when reading these passages—both taken from a "soul-searching" roundtable held by the Democratic Leadership Council—was this: Who the hell is Will Marshall?

I couldn't remember seeing his name at the top of anybody's ballot. I didn't remember which, if any, elections he had ever won. I was a little mystified, in fact, by the nature of his popular support—who he meant, exactly, when he used the word "we" to talk about whom Michael Moore does and does not speak for. According to the last data I could find, Moore recently made a movie that was seen by tens of millions of people around the world and has grossed nearly $120 million in the U.S. alone. Furthermore, it was, according to exit polls, a much better demographic success than the actual Democratic party. A Harris poll conducted in July found that 89 percent of Democrats agreed with Fahrenheit 9/11, along with 70 percent of independents. That means Moore outperformed John Kerry among independents by about 19 points, if we are to go just by the data presented by bum-licking power-worshipper Ron Brownstein of the Los Angeles Times at the DLC roundtable. "

More:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11034127/the_low_post_why_the_democrats_are_still_doomed

"Moreover, Brooks and the DLC have this in common: While they both frown on the open flag-waving and ostentatious religiosity of the talk-radio right-wing as being gauche and in bad form, they're only truly offended by people of their own background who happen to be idealistic.

Hence the recurring backlash by both against the various angry electoral challenges to the establishment of the Democratic Party -- including, most recently, the campaign of Ned Lamont, challenger to Joe Lieberman's Senate Seat in Connecticut."

More:

http://www.buffalobeast.com/66/wittman.htm

"DLC Moose shit

A Letter to Marshall Wittman

by Matt Taibbi

What about a Chairman who hails from the reddest of red states, a former Republican, ex-union official who worked with devout Christians and is Jewish and has well-defined ties to the McCainiac-independent voter? And all of the candidates express their appreciation of the power of the Internet, why not a Chairman who resides there? The Moose—what's not to like!

The antlered one could certainly give the donkey a well-placed kick in the behind and transform him into a reform animal. And the Moose certainly knows the adversary since he was once privy to the counsels of the DeLays, Santorums, Norquists and Reeds.

The Moose shouldn't make a hasty decision. Perhaps he should embark upon a listening tour of the blogosphere and hear from the Mooseketeers.

—Marshall Wittmann"

There is just so much more.

Any excuse to bash the nutroots...er netroots...er whatever.

How about it, Mooseketeers? Marshall Wittmann, the former legislative director for the Christian Coalition and also a veteran talking head of such excellent organizations as the Heritage Foundation and the Hudson Institute (which hypes him as "one of the nation's most quoted analysts"), offers himself as a candidate for the chair of the Democratic Party.



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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. WHat's the point?
You are making here...

Backing up Taibbi's anti-DLC bona fides simply makes his criticism of the left more credible...
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. yeah... yeah... that's correct.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
62. You want Taibbi? I'll give you Taibbi
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
75. Interesting comment on Michael Moore.
His first movie, "Roger and Me," was pretty much economic populism and NOT in tune with the DLC.

He veered into cultural territory with FAhrenheit 911 and Columbine.

I'm waiting to see whether the economic populist reappears with "Sicko."
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
43. Gee, you all have much in common with budding European Fascism of 1930s ...
:wow:

The proximate causes of this revulsion against liberalism in Italy, Germany, and elsewhere are not far to seek. And the underlying anti-liberal logic was more cultural than political-economic. After defeat in World War I neither Germany nor Italy was able to advance its interests effectively in Europe. The Italians were widely regarded as pathetic soldiers. “The Italians,” Bismarck said, “have such large appetites and such poor teeth.” Giovanni Gentile, subsequently a Fascist minister for Mussolini, lamented the dolce far niente (“sweet do nothing”) that he found characterized the Italians as a nation. As for the Germans, they had of course lost the war, but they were encouraged to believe that their armies and fighting men had not been defeated on the battlefield but had been betrayed by an unpatriotic cabal of Jews, Francophiles, liberals, and socialists.

So for these men and like-minded others, there was a necessary connection between reviving militarism and imperialism and curtailing the state’s commitment to popular welfare. Only a new political elite—battle-hardened, ruthless, and devoted to authoritarian government—could achieve the reforms needed to restore these states to the ranks of the European powerful. :wow:

The new governments would not be parliamentary: talk shops never get anything done. In Italy the Fascist elite developed an imperial ideology focusing on Rome; in Germany, too, there was an imperial element—the “Thousand Year Empire”—although we correctly understand the racism of the National Socialists to have been their most memorable contribution to the horrors of the 20th century.

-------------

In other words, there's NOTHING NEW about the DLC's goals. History demonstrates that they are FAR FROM SPECIAL.

We must DENY the DLC their way in every damn Presidential Nominee - a mirror opposite approach to the Nazi Republicans always submitting to Herr Bush's desires and proclamations.

Our beloved Constitution's welfare insists that our Democratic Party be GUIDED by the consensus of "the people" NOT by the dictates of The Blue Dogs nor the DLC. :patriot:
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ludwigb Donating Member (789 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #43
70. Comparing American political movements to Nazism is tricky at best
I suppose there is some affinity to Fascist movements when you talk about the use of propoganda and mass media.

But I cringe when I hear the GOP compared to the Nazis. I don't see much evidence of armed and coercive conspiracy. If there was that, wouldn't there be more dead bodies here in the States? It's hard to believe that somebody wouldn't stand up to them.

In general, fascism doesn't go terribly well with the American personality. Maybe if there is an economic depression things will change.

I think American imperialism is better understood as straight up nationalist-corporate imperialism. When crafting historical analogies, look first to British Imperialism and how it was justified.
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pretty_lies Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
45. I Love Matt Taibbi And Want His Babies
Taibbi seriously misapprehends the Democrat party. It's far from monolithic and like the republicans judders along in all directions depending on which special-interest party pushes hardest. In the end, it's just a group of people. Anyone who's had a committee meeting knows how this sort of thing works.

This is not to say his article is worthless. He apprehends the nature of the white middle-class Democrats well enough, and they are the most visible face of the party.

Both parties are big tents. There's room under the Democrat tent for religious Hispanics and evangelical black Christians and gay-rights campaigners and feminists and Code Pink and environmentalists and Joe "Bombs Away" Lieberman peeping out the back end.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Joe isn't a member of the Democratic party. n/t
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #45
56. Anyone who feels comfortable with us is welcome I reckon
My favorites are the unions, I reckon, because they continue to do so much work for us.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
52. Taibbi's a smart guy
in this case, he's doing a profoundly convincing version of a fool.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. He pulled some stuff like this during the primaries.
I think he gets his nose out of joint with someone and lets it fly.

I have read a lot of his work, but this one is bad.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Agreed.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
57. Fuck Mark Taibbi, rinse, lather, repeat
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #57
64. IMO Mark Taibbi is a Smart-ASS Guy. This is just another "hit piece" on the party base.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
58. ??
"According to a 2004 Pew report, Americans who self-identify as liberals have an average annual income of $71,000 – the highest-grossing political category in America."

L-M-FUCKIN'-A-O

ugh...lies, damned lies, and statistics
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
63. This paragraph says alot
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 06:14 AM by dsc
We all know where this stuff comes from. Anyone who’s ever been to a lefty political meeting knows the deal – the problem is the “spirit of inclusiveness” stretched to the limits of absurdity. The post-sixties dogma that everyone’s viewpoint is legitimate, everyone‘s choice about anything (lifestyle, gender, ethnicity, even class) is valid, that’s now so totally ingrained that at every single meeting, every time some yutz gets up and starts rambling about anything, no matter how ridiculous, no one ever tells him to shut the fuck up. Next thing you know, you’ve got guys on stilts wearing mime makeup and Cat-in-the-Hat striped top-hats leading a half-million people at an anti-war rally. Why is that guy there? Because no one told him that war is a matter of life and death and that he should leave his fucking stilts at home.

and so does this one

In a few years it will be half a century since the 1960s began. The Baby-Boomer generation that shaped modern liberalism will soon be moving on to the nursing home, many of its battles – for civil, gay, immigrant and women’s rights, for workplace protections, and against the Vietnam war and Richard Nixon – already won. They did a lot of good things, but their fight doesn’t always make sense anymore. In any case, you can smell something new rising out of the mess in Iraq and the changed American labor market. From among the veterans of this new bad war and the refugees of the global economy, some kind of movement is bound to arise. Who knows what that will be called – but it’s safe to say it won’t be called liberalism.

So he presumedly believes gay people choose to be gay, are equivalent to mimes on stilts, and that their rights are already won. If I believed that I guess I would think too much time was being spent on gay rights too. Too bad I know it is baldly false.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Perhaps the Author is dating Coulter? He's using many of the right's tactics re: attacking liberals.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200606080002

Coulter continued attacks on liberals, families of 9-11 victims: "o I have to kill my mother so I can be a victim, too?"
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
68. One piece of meat in this article; the rest is miracle whip
The meat:

Sanders agrees, saying that “where the money comes from” is definitely one of the reasons that the so-called liberals in Washington – i.e. the Democrats – tend not to get too heavily into financial issues that affect ordinary people. This basically regressive electoral formula has been a staple of the Democratic Party ever since the Walter Mondale fiasco in the mid-eighties prompted a few shrewd Washington insiders to create the notorious “pro-business” political formula of the Democratic Leadership Council, which sought to end the party’s dependence upon labor money by announcing a new willingness to sell out on financial issues in exchange for support from Wall Street. Once the DLC’s financial strategy helped get Bill Clinton elected, no one in Washington ever again bothered to question the wisdom of the political compromises it required.

Within a decade, the process was automatic – Citibank gives money to Tom Daschle, Tom Daschle crafts the hideous Bankruptcy Bill, and suddenly the Midwestern union member who was laid off in the wake of Democrat-passed NAFTA can’t even declare bankruptcy to get out from the credit card debt he incurred in his unemployment. He will now probably suck eggs for the rest of his life, paying off credit card debt year after year at a snail’s pace while working as a non-union butcher in a Wal-Mart in Butte. Royally screwed twice by the Democratic Party ...


The rest is fake stuff, full of chemicals and preservatives. It's always good for a splash to attack your own: women railing against feminists, (former)working mothers selling the joys of house-wifery, ex-environmentalists fulminating about eco-terrorists, former Marxists embracing capitalism - it all sells.

So he doesn't like people on stilts - what does he want, brown-shirts? Since when do the organizers of non-military, non-fascistic mass demonstrations control what people wear, or exactly what each of those millions does? Not to mention which the TV cameras decide to focus on?

Tabibbi seems to have forgotten that it was the "whining, disorganized left" who put millions in the streets before the Iraq War, and who coordinated and collaborated for fourteen months before the '04 elections to register, persuade, and turn-out millions of new voters, especially youth and minorities, to win in '06, for a candidate that the "whining, disorganized" and according to some "purist, one-issue" left was none too crazy about, on the purely pragmatic grounds of ABB, only to have the victory stolen.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. When you attack your own you get attention....Taibbi is getting attention.
at least he is here at DU.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
72. Matt Taibbi, the acid dropping Hunter Thompson wannabe?
The guy who dressed in a gorilla suit on the Kerry Press tour ?

Yeah, he's credible
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
73. Interesting what he says here about the DLC as part of this sweeping generalization
of "liberals" and the American "left":

.......This basically regressive electoral formula has been a staple of the Democratic Party ever since the Walter Mondale fiasco in the mid-eighties prompted a few shewd Washington insiders to create the notorious “pro-business” political formula of the Democratic Leadership Council, which sought to end the party’s dependence upon labor money by announcing a new willingness to sell out on financial issues in exchange for support from Wall Street. Once the DLC’s financial strategy helped get Bill Clinton elected, no one in Washington ever again bothered to question the wisdom of the political compromises it required.

Within a decade, the process was automatic – Citibank gives money to Tom Daschle, Tom Daschle crafts the hideous Bankruptcy Bill, and suddenly the Midwestern union member who was laid off in the wake of Democrat-passed NAFTA can’t even declare bankruptcy to get out from the credit card debt he incurred in his unemployment. He will now probably suck eggs for the rest of his life, paying off credit card debt year after year at a snail’s pace while working as a non-union butcher in a Wal-Mart in Butte. Royally screwed twice by the Democratic Party he voted for, he will almost certainly decide to vote Republican the first time he opens up the door to find four pimply college students wearing I READ BANNED BOOKS t-shirts taking up a collection to agitate for dolphin-safe tuna.

But money and campaign contributions aren’t the only reason “liberal“ politicians screw their voters.

http://adbusters.org/the_magazine/71/The_American_Lefts_Silly_Victim_Complex.html



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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
74. Bullshit..I ain't
no fucking victim and fuck the dlc.
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