Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Obama: Where's the beef on "unity"?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:38 PM
Original message
Obama: Where's the beef on "unity"?
Obama is running on the premise that he has a magic unity elixir. An elixir that Washington, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, Jackson, Clay, Webster, Lincoln, T. Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Carter, and Clinton did not possess. In other words, he is claiming he has a magic way to do what no one in America has been able to do since Lexington and Concord.

Let's accept his premise for the sake of discussion. Let's believe that he can achieve what other great Americans could not achieve. Where is the performance? There have been two prominent instances this year alone that were tailor-made from someone with Obama's self-proclaimed touch.

The first was the divisive issue of whether to continue financing Bush's war with a blank check. After the initial veto, the going got tough. Over 100,000 troops were waiting to see if somehow a compromise could be brokered to help bring an end to the failed war. This could have been Obama's version of Henry Clay's famous compromises of 1820 and 1850 on the contentious issue of slavery. What did this self-proclaimed Henry Clay squared do? He disappeared. When his alleged skills were needed the most he grew silent. He was nowhere to be found on the issue. He did not try to bring both sides together to forge a compromise. He cut and run. He could not even state which way he would vote and quietly voted "nay" at the last minute.

Perhaps that was just a mistake. Another opportunity quickly called for Obama's alleged special skills: immigration. Immigration is arguably the second most contentious legislative issue (with abortion being left to the courts). If we are ever to get any immigration reform we need someone who can bring both sides together in a compromise. We need someone who can get Americans to look past the distractions that divide us and instead look at our common purposes. These are precisely the qualities Obama claims to possess. Where was he during the immigration debate? He showed up, at least, this time. Surely that raised hopes that the self-styled "Great Compromiser" would come to the rescue. What happened? He made a cameo by offering an amendment. An amendment that actually increased division in the senate and made it more likely for the bill to fail.

Obama is running on the audacity of arrogance. It is very arrogant to think he could do what all those other great leaders could not do. We must look at his performance. He seems utterly incapable of achieving unity and common cause on the controversial issues of the day. Even worse, he does not even bother to try! Think about the audacity of arrogance. He runs around the nation calling for "unity" and an end to divisiveness. He extols himself as the magic man who can make this happen. Then he returns to the senate. Evidently, the senate chamber is his kryptonite. The man who speaks so well about unity and working together in Des Moines and Manchester suddenly does not even attempt to achieve his stated goals. The day ends. He clocks out. He gets on a jet to a big fundraiser California, a town hall in Nashua, NH, or a rally in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It is as if he pushed the delete button on the day's work in the senate. He is back to using flashy and appealing Axlerod rhetoric about unity and divisiveness. He promises, again, to deliver later what he doesn't even try to deliver today. That is the audacity of arrogance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. DMC, you totally miss the whole thing. sorry.
obama works with people of different ideas and values and parties well. he has long been known here in crafting legislation and getting it thru based on working with the other side in a senate, state or us controlled by republicans.
this is where the unity comes from. it is also a long learned ability from his organizing days.
it is the ability to get things done in a partisan atmosphere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Where is the performance in the senate--especially when it counts? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. You are one of the very ones who was pushing Obama until yesterday
He is doing more to bring the campaigns together. Hillary's campaign is the one that has been putting hit pieces on him. Give me a break
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Its the people around him that are crafting him as this amazing thing
If anybody is to blame, its the media for hyping him as the next JFK.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. He is running on those premises, though
We need to see if he practices in Washington what he preaches in Des Moines.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. So let me get this right blame him instead of the person who actually did it
Oh yeah that makes real sense. Very logical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. You really need to get some rest.
All your Obama bashing today has got to have you exhausted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Can you list any instances on a controversial issue where BO has delivered?
We can't simply accept his claims on "faith."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. Can you list some where he has not
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. I guess you have to define
what you mean by "delivered". Obama has tackled all the critical problems and his approach and knowledge is quite impressive to me. You hear what you want to hear and you can also not hear what you don't want to hear. I really like Edwards but I can take his position on any issue and twist it or spin it however I like to make it meet my needs. I also could convince myself that he doesn't have a position or he hasn't "delivered" on this particular issue. I think Obama and Edwards would both make great presidents and it is a little depressing to read un-relentless criticism on either especially considering it is coming from someone who probably shares my political priorities. Sometimes enough is enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh good grief..

The day ends. He clocks out. He gets on a jet to a big fundraiser California, a town hall in Nashua, NH, or a rally in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.


Geezuz Key Friggin Ryst... You'd think the guy was running for president or something?!?!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sure. That is great. That isn't the issue, though
Edited on Fri Jun-15-07 11:52 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
The issue is he is falsely selling something he either is incapable of delivering or does not care about delivering. How can you talk about "unity" and "compromise" on the campaign trail when you do zilch to achieve that when it matters in the senate? It is hypocritical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I agree with "nevergiveup" ... you sound tired.

Give it a rest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Typical Obama supporter response
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 12:02 AM by draft_mario_cuomo
Whenever Obama's performance or record is questioned Obama supporters dodge the issue. This thread goes to the primary theme and premise of his candidacy. If Obama supporters cannot even point to evidence backing up his core claims, what does that say about his candidacy? Are voters simply supposed to accept his claims on "faith"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Get yourself together and Support Your Candidate Edwards You are
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 06:38 AM by Ethelk2044
Trying to bring Obama down by your posts thinking Edwards will over come him. Think again. Your candidate will have to do a heck of a lot more. You see he has a major problem. He voted for the war and then he turn around and became the spokes person for the war. More or les he did a flip flop on the war. He was on the committee. He knew there was not enough evidence for the war. Yet, he still voted for it. I call that going along with the Jones instead of being strong enough to have his own mind and vote the right way. I do not want that type of person in the office of the Presidency.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. He is not falsely selling something. He has yet do something out of line
He needs to get rid of the person in his campaign who wrote the papers. You are the one being very hypocritical of a candidate you were pushing. If a person in his campaign did something. Push him to get rid of the person. The crap you are trying to push does not make sense. He thus far has done nothing wrong.

Just like Edwards got rid of the two bloggers on his campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. i noticed you mentioned axlerod and since i`m from illinois
i`m very familiar with his, shall we say, chicago style of politics... what got me really interested is this statement

"He is back to using flashy and appealing Axlerod rhetoric about unity and divisiveness" well a little goggling produced this..


"Leaving journalism in 1984, Axelrod managed Paul Simon’s upset victory over incumbent U.S. Senator Charles Percy in Illinois. Since then, he has worked for leading Democrats across the country, including Senator Hillary Clinton and Attorney General Eliot Spitzer in New York, Governor Tom Vilsack in Iowa and Congressman Rahm Emanuel in Illinois. A specialist in urban politics, Axelrod has produced victories for mayoral candidates in Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit and Washington, D.C."

paul simon-one of the best senators ever in the history of illinois and the nation

what`s this--senator hillary clinton?

spitzer--one tough son of a bitch in the country

vilsack-fine governor of iowa

if he was good enough for hillary why would`t obama hire him to help his run...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The point was that what he says sounds great. Where's the beef? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. Where is Edwards Beef. What did Edwards do while he was in the
Senate. He could not even carry his own state in the 2004 election campaign. What Bills did he co author? Why with being on the committee did he vote for the war. He knew everything the media was saying was wrong. Yet he was not strong enough to vote against the war like his counter parts on the committee. Tell me please where is the beef?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
13. Obviously, Obama is not the guy for you. Pity.
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 01:54 AM by bling bling
But you seem to really be obsessed with the fact that he's not your choice. It's been pretty well established that you're for Edwards and as far as I can tell none of the Obama people had a problem with it, or, for that mattered, even cared to try and change your mind.

I won't be replying to too many of these "question" threads from people who have found their calling in life to spend hours a day peppering GDP with as much negative coverage and out and out smearing as possible on Obama. Popping up into every Obama thread. Starting new ones "questioning" things. Making mountains out of molehills. You're calling him racist on other threads, afterall, so your credibility is down to a sliver with me.

I really want to continue caring enough to read what you post. But you've got to offer more "beef" than the "Obama is racist" crap, too. This thread is more substantial, and it could be a good discussion, but I'm not interested in foolishly wasting my time researching information to answer yours and the other Clinton people's "questions" just to have the information ignored because you've no intention of learning or changing your opinion *at all*, regardless of what people dig up for you to look at. You and the others will have to be willing to give a little too or nobody worth talking to is going to keep responding.

There's an article in the Congressional Quarterly from January that discusses the issue of Obama and unity. I'd bet my house that his bipartisan legislation and efforts won't come close to being "beefy" enough for you. But for people who were lured to this thread with a genuine interest in the matter, it's an interesting piece to read and consider and it seemed objective.

------->

...Obama has earned a reputation as a good listener, a hard worker and a creative thinker. The issues on which he’s chosen to spend his time are a fair reflection of the values he describes in his best-selling new book, “The Audacity of Hope” — a preference for “good government solutions that make the country better without setting off partisan squabbles,” according to Cass R. Sunstein, a friend who is a professor at the University of Chicago Law School, where Obama once taught constitutional law.

Obama’s voting record doesn’t reflect that nonpartisan streak. In his first two years, he sided with his party on 97 percent of the votes that pitted most of his caucus against most Republicans — a party unity score higher than all but five other Senate Democrats in the 109th Congress, and higher than those of any of the other likely Democratic presidential candidates now in the Senate, including Clinton.

In his legislative work, however, Obama has formed partnerships with Republicans — including Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, one of the Senate’s most conservative members — that have led to legislative successes. And he made a notable break with his party two weeks ago, when he was one of nine Democrats who voted against a leadership effort to kill a proposal by Republican Jim DeMint of South Carolina, another of Obama’s occasional legislative partners, for broader disclosure of federal funding earmarks.

more at link
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqw/weeklyreport110-000002433688.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Amen Enough Said
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. wow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
21. This portion of "I Have No Idea What I'm Talking About" brought to you by...
...people who don't do their homework and then say it went up the chimney...they use "Old Excuses"..."Old Excuses", try it today!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. Just an Edwards Supporter trying to Slam Obama thinking it will
bring Edwards up in the polls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Edwards will do that all on his own.
Obamas ship is sinking, and sinking fast.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Oh that is why the News Agency stated Yesterday he is closing in on Clinton because
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 07:03 AM by Ethelk2044
He is sliding . Right Also, He is sliding so much. Hillary's campaign tried to hold a party like the Obama Camp. Her's flopped because she could not pull the younger crowd like she wanted to. They keep trying to copy him because his campaign is well thought out. Yeah he is sliding alright. But it is upward not downward.

:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Apparently you missed this yesterday.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3318059&mesg_id=3318059

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Evidently You Missed Yesterday. You did not even notice my Post.
Therefore you look like a fool with this comment.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. The polls state who the fool is.
And it ain't me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Right!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Oh yes her party of 8,000 was real flop!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. It did not pull the younger crowd. The party was for younger people not older
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 07:13 AM by Ethelk2044
She got the older Crowd. The party was to try to appeal to the younger crowd. Yes, she had older people there, but she can not pull the younger crowd.





:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. You just keep thinking like that.
You never seem to post links to back up your assertions. Why is that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I do not have to think like that If you where watching on the News they commented
on the same thing. They even showed a video from the site of the party. The people working on the campaign walked away because they did not want to comment on her pulling the young crowd. They just was not that many. It was mostly the older crowd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Wheres the video?
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 07:21 AM by William769
I won't hold my breath on that or a link because you never supply one.

ON EDIT: This will be my last response to you since all you have to offer is your word and frankly that ain't good enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Check CNN or MSNBC it was on their nightly news between 5 -8
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
37. At the risk of encouraging you...
Concepts like "unity" are not scientifically measurable or precisely definable quantities when applied in the real world. Therefore, you need a fairly large set of data from which to see patterns and draw conclusions. But you only pick two, as if finding any exception to your specifically crafted idea of a perfect record proves your point. It does not.

You would have to choose many more "opportunities" for Obama to have shown unity and then show that he failed to do so in many of those chances. It is disingenuous, intellectually empty, and even immature to just throw two examples out there that don't meet your specifically designed criteria and challenge everyone to run around trying to find counter examples which of course will be met with further criteria such as "well that was too long ago", or "that wasn't at the federal level". Not only that, perfect unity is pretty much an "ideal" concept, unlikely to be achieved very often in the real world, so "relative" unity is a better measure anyway. Is Obama more of a unifier than others? That is a better question. But now, not only do you need a lot of data points for Obama, you also need a lot of data points for someone else to compare him to.

You have not made your point. You have shown that you have a strong opinion and are flailing around trying to find as many different ways to express that opinion as possible, disguised as intellectual debate. Come back with more information that is arguable and we can all talk about it. And get out and get some sun today. I'm worried about you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
39. I'll let this thread go
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 07:00 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
Clearly, Obama supporters can't point to any examples of Obama living up to his self-styled reputation. It is apparently nothing more than a campaign ploy straight out of the Rove playbook... The guy's premise is "unity" and even his supporters cannot cite any occasion on which Obama rose to broker a compromise on a controversial issue in the senate. The closest thing we got is that he co-sponsored some bills with Republicans. On what? His alleged skills are needed the most on the controversial issues of the day. Clay did it. Why can't the new self-proclaimed "Great Compromiser" do the same?

Continuing this thread would be futile. Obama supporters will cling to this belief. It is central to the Obama brand. He is a great speaker and talks a wonderful game on unity. Still, as the record suggests, that is all it is. Talk.

The arrogance and condescension Obama supporters display to anyone who dares question HIM is amusing (i.e., shut up and go to sleep! Shut up and get some sun! Etc.). Is this the "new politics" his "movement" seeks to bring? It sounds positively repuke-like. You are either with us or against us! Don't ask questions of our great leader! The substantial prevalence of this is endemic to Obama supporters (on the Dem side...). You don't see this from other camps.

Obama is running for president. People will ask questions about him. He is not some sort of God. The notion that he will forever get a free pass on his central premises is absurd. Eventually, especially if he overtakes HRC, people in high places, not mere bloggers or message board posters, will start asking the basic questions. You can't run on "unity" and have no plan to achieve it, nor any meaningful record of creating it in Washington on controversial issues.

P.S. Obama is not stupid. He knows being a "uniter, not a divider" and "changing the tone in Washington" are winning themes. Ask Rove...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-17-07 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Questioning Obama? Not with this crowd...
We are entitled to learn as much as we can about each an every candidate running for office. Obama should not be held to a different standard just because he's your particular candidate. It's all part of the Democratic process of doing our homework helping us make the best and most informed decision before handing them our support and vote.

I've never made a secret of it, Obama doesn't impress me at all. I'll state my conclusions and hope one of you can dissuade me from my opinion..(Hillary comments aren't necessary here.) Promote or defend your candidate to me because this is my impression of Obama after what I've seen and read so far.

He's all form and no content – a perfect replica of rebellion for the new millennium; slick, bromidic, and phony as all get-out. Another Wendell Willkie, the man who came out of nowhere, a public relations creation. Obama will disarm the Left with the Purity factor and align himself on the Right with the continuation of Neoconic policies. Or so his strategists dream. In the end, however, our foreign policy will remain pretty much the same; aggressive, arrogant, and the cause of our ultimate undoing.

Obama's Vision for our Global future.

dmc...loved the "Henry Clay squared".. phrase!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-18-07 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Good post. Some act as if this is an election for freshman class pres, not POTUS
We can't afford to elect someone solely on personality given the stakes involved!

The most disturbing thing about the Obama phenomenon is that--before he told anyone anything at all about what he intended to do--he was at 20% in the polls! What conclusion can we reach from this other than that roughly 20% of Dems are voting for his personality and myth, rather than based on his policies, platform? After all, he had no platform when he entered the race! The bulk of his support is comprised of those who began to support him before he said a word about what he intended to do as president...this is downright scary, especially after the price we paid due to voters ignoring the issues in 2000 and 2004... :scary:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Nov 03rd 2024, 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC