Democrats take their stand with Tancredo. He says "the people have spoken".

[madfloridian]

I guess he must be right. Since we control the House by a good margin, he must be right. Our Democrats agree with Tom Tancredo. They stand with him.

The issue has come to fruition," Tancredo said by cell phone after the vote. "The people of the country really have spoken. It's a really good indicator of just how much closer to the people the House is than the Senate is."

This was referring to the bill about the government withholding emergency response from cities who give sanctuary. This is getting very close to the idea of criminalizing city officials and clergy.

Here is a little more on it:
Tancredo wins surprise immigration vote

WASHINGTON, D.C. – The U.S. House of Representatives this morning voted to withhold federal emergency services funding for "sanctuary cities" that protect illegal immigrants.

Anti-illegal immigration champion Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., sponsored the measure, which he says would apply to cities such as Denver and Boulder. He was elated by its passage, which stunned critics and supporters alike.

Tancredo must be right. 50 House Democrats voted for it. Since we control the House, that means our party is for such a bill. I have seen it spun here, but that is the bottom line. The House under Democrats appears to be very much like a very extreme Republican.

Here are the votes, the yes votes are overwhelmingly Blue Dogs or New Dems, with a few names I don't know. I am making a list, but it is taking a while.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll485.xml

The names that stood out at once are Altmire, Boswell, Boyda, Cohen (assume they mean TN...guess he has to be careful cause he's got a huge primary coming up next time with the same lady he beat before)...also Cuellar, Giffords, Gillibrand, Klein (FL), Lampson (TX), Mahoney (FL), Patrick Murphy who got a lot of activist help, Obey, Sestak, Shuler, Space, and many more.

By this vote the House which is controlled by Democrats told me what I needed to know.

They stand with someone like Tancredo on issues affecting whole cities.

Trouble is: polls don't show that. They show a majority supporting some kind of earned citizenship.

Large majority supports path to citizenship

A poll finds 63% of all respondents, and 65% of Republicans, back the controversial measure.

WASHINGTON — A strong majority of Americans — including nearly two-thirds of Republicans — favor allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens if they pay fines, learn English and meet other requirements, a new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll has found.

That is a striking show of support for a primary element of an immigration overhaul bill that has stalled in the Senate amid conservative opposition.

Only 23% of adults surveyed opposed allowing undocumented immigrants to gain legal status. That finding bolsters the view, shared by President Bush, that the bill's opponents represent a vocal minority whereas most people are more welcoming toward illegal immigrants.

"They are willing to take jobs that our people aren't interested in, and I think this helps the economy," Joseph Simpkins, a retired dry cleaner in New Jersey who participated in the survey, said in a follow-up interview. "As long as they pay taxes, I see nothing wrong with having them become citizens."

That's the problem. Tancredo and the Democrats stand together, but they are not where the people are.

[TwilightGardener]

1. Wow, we're going to let American cities drown, burn, collapse, whatever--

because of too many illegals? We're going to punish citizens for the actions/ordinances of their city councils? Is this what I'm gathering here? This is fucking nuts. There is no humanity at all in this bill, and I'm NOT a big fan of illegals. I am ashamed of those 50 in our party.

[glowing]

2. Why in HELL would anyone from Florida vote for this..... We have

quite a few immigrants legal and illegal, and we are prone to just a few hurricanes each season... what are these idiots thinking... guess their run will be short lived when the assistance doesn't come after a storm.

[rodeodance]

3. 50 dems going along with that idiot!!

[Bitwit1234]

4. Explain to me..................

Since the senate is almost 50/50.........and you need 60 votes to even get some bills out of committee how does anybody expect the democrats to rush and push bills thru. We see the republicans are blocking just about everything they can. They want to hamstring the senate so they can tell the American people that the democrats are divided. Most Americans are so damn stupid they dont' know how their government works. All you have to do is listen to one of Leno's jaywalking stints. Even people who are going to school to BE TEACHERS are stumped by simple questions about history and the running of this country.

[madfloridian]

6. What are you talking about? I am talking about the House.

God only knows what the Senate would do

[acmavm]

5. Polls can be made to say anything. Yours is a LA Times/Bloomberg

poll.

Here's some more:

New poll finds majority of Americans see illegal immigration as a “serious problem”.
According to a RoperASW poll, the majority of Americans favor reductions in immigration levels, severe penalties for using false identification, and more involvement at the state and local level to help locate and deport illegal aliens.

http://www.npg.org/immpoll.html

OLD POLL, BUT IT'S A ZOGBY. A fave of many people here...

Zogby Poll: 81% WANT police to detain illegals: ONLY 35% WANT GUEST WORKER.
Posted on Monday, May 09 @ 10:05:14 CDT

http://www.alipac.us/article395.html

MOST RECENT NATIONAL POLLS

A Rassmussen Reports Poll taken from June 11-12, 2007 of 800 likely voters found that:

69% support an immigration bill that focuses exclusively on reducing illegal immigration and enforcing the borders.
57% would not support a strategy that focuses exclusively on legalizing the status of undocumented workers.
51% agree with the Senate taking small steps forward instead them trying to pass the same immigration bill again.
An Opinion Dynamics/Fox New poll of 900 registered voters taken from June 5-6, 2007 found that:

58% believe that enforcing current immigration laws is the way to solve the immigration crisis versus 34% that believe the system needs a total overall.
55% support raids on businesses that employ illegal immigrants resulting in immediate detention of illegal immigrants found.
A New York Times/CBS poll conducted from May 18-23, 2007 of 1,125 adults found that:

82% believe that the U.S could be doing more to keep illegal immigrants from crossing the border.
81% feel that illegal immigration is either a very serious (61%) or somewhat serious (30%) issue.
75% think that most of the people who have moved to United States in the last few years are here illegally.
75% agree with imposing hirer fines on employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.
70% believe that illegal immigrants do more to weaken the economy because they don’t pay taxes and use public services.
69% feel that illegal immigrants should be prosecuted for being in the U.S. illegally.
60% disapprove of President Bush’s handling of the immigration issue.
45% (a plurality) believe that a guest worker program would eventually increase the illegal immigration population in the United States because workers would over-stay their visas.
35% (a plurality) think that in the long run immigration will make society worse.
A USA Today/Gallup Poll of 1,007 adults conducted from June 1-3, 2007 found that:


11% favor the proposed Senate immigration bill, while 30% oppose it, and 58% don’t know enough to say either way.
Of those who opposed the proposed Senate immigration bill 39% dislike the proposal because it grants amnesty/rewards to illegal immigrants, 17% want stiffer penalties for illegal immigrants, 15% don’t believe the bill will solve the problem, 11% think that immigrants cost taxpayers too much in health, welfare and school services and 10% believe we already have enough people in the United States.

A Washington Post-ABC survey of 1,205 adults taken from May 29th- June 1, 2007 found that:

64% disapprove of President Bush’s handling of the immigration crisis.
55% believe that illegal immigrants do more to harm the county than to help the country.
When asked, “Would you support or oppose a program giving ILLEGAL immigrants now living in the United States the right to live here LEGALLY if they pay a fine and meet other requirements?” 55% agreed, 44 disagreed, and 4% had no opinion.

When asked, “Would you support or oppose significantly expanding the guest worker program that allows people from other countries to work in the U.S. on a temporary basis, “ 53% supported, 43% opposed and 4% had no opinion.

A Rasmussen Report survey of 800 likely voters taken from May 21-22, 2007 found that:

88% find it very important (72%) or somewhat important (16%) to improve border enforcement and reduce illegal immigration.
26% support the Senate immigration reform poposal.
A Rasmussen Report survey of 1000 adults taken from May 8-9, 2007 found that:

62% support the addition of 6,000 border patrol agents.
56% agree with an enforcement-only approach to immigration reform.
CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll conducted from May 4-6, 2007 of 1,028 adults found that:

53% agree with building a 700 mile long fence on the border with Mexico
50% oppose the creation of a temporary worker program that would allow foreign citizens to enter the U.S for several months.
A Rasmussen Report survey of 1000 adults taken from April 30-May 1st, 2007 found that:

56% oppose granting citizenship to the child of an illegal alien born in the United States
55% disagree with granting citizenship to parents of children born in the United States


A McLaughlin & Associates poll conducted from April 12-15, 2007 of 1000 likely voters found that:

82% (82% of Latinos) support requiring voters to show valid identification to prevent fraud.
78% (73% of Latinos) agree with a tamper-proof identification card system to establish which applicants are legal immigrants.
77% (67% of Latinos) think that repealing local sanctuary laws allowing illegal immigrants to avoid punishment is a good idea.
75% (59% of Latinos) want to prohibit the issuing of drivers’ licenses to illegal immigrants by the state.
73% (53% of Latinos) support altering citizenship laws so that a child born in the United States does not automatically become a citizen, but must have a parent who is a citizen in order to do so.
72% (67% of Latinos) endorse tamper-proof identification cards with a national database.
71% (57% of Latinos) agree with passing new state laws to stop the use of taxpayer services for illegal immigrants.
68% (56% of Latinos) would like to enact a policy of zero tolerance where all illegal immigrants are deported.
63% (50% of Latinos) believe that illegal immigration is problem in the United States.
59% (69% of Latinos) support a guest worker program.
51% do not agree that measures that President Bush and Congress approved in 2006 will decreases illegal immigration.


http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchd74c

(This last link is your 'one stop shopping' link for navigation to all but the first poll.)

[madfloridian]

7. From CNN yesterday....

KOCH: "The fight's over the path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Polls indicate most Americans support that plan. When it's called amnesty, as opponents describe it, a recent Pew poll shows a majority still say they favor the idea.

So why the big battle over the bill?

KEATING HOLLAND, CNN POLLING DIRECTOR: People who support the path to citizenship don't care about the immigration issue very much. But people who oppose it care about it a great deal. Forty-seven percent of them in our most recent poll said that the immigration issue was extremely important."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/15/sitroom.01.html

I guess we could play the poll game all day.

But then you appear to be excusing our Demcrats for standing with an extremist Republican on such an issue as depriving cities of emergency care.

[acmavm]

8. ??..."such an issue as depriving cities of emergency care. " WTF?

Make shit up much, do you?

[madfloridian]

9. Did you read the OP at all? Temper tantrum with me?

I don't think so. Temper tantrums with me don't change the fact of what 50 Democrats voted for.

[acmavm]

10. I read the damn thing. I posted that you can make any idea (when polled)

seem like the vast majority of people are for or against ANYTHING. A point that apparently you are incapable of understanding.

I did not post on the subject of any of these polls. Does that fact escape you?

Temper tantrum? How funny!

[TwilightGardener]

13. Maybe the American people are smarter than I give them credit for

(and I usually don't give 'em credit for smarts!)--if you call the bill "amnesty", that's a loaded word which means, "all is forgiven--you get off scot-free"--people are naturally against that. I am too. But if you include punitive action and a way to EARN citizenship (BEHIND legal immigrants), people seem to be FOR it. That's what I understand the reform bill calls for. Maybe people can see that distinction, that RW's like Tancredo can't--he seems to define anything short of immediate and universal deportation as amnesty. So you are correct--it all depends on wording and context of the polls. Let the polls go, though, and see what the OP is really pointing to--the fact that Dems would deny our cities emergency relief as punishment for offering "sanctuary" (however one defines that) for illegals. How do you feel about that?

[dmosh42]

11. comes down to really understanding what 'we want'.

While it's true. probably most American citizens would like to work out some plan for all these illegals in the country, few of them trust Bush & Congress to do a suitable legislation. It's always smoke and mirrors with this gang, whether it be Dems or Repubs. Nobody in gov't has demonstrated any ability to 'execute' our immigration laws as they were 30 years or more ago. We all know this bill was written to satisfy the big corporations, which have no allegiance to anybody, and is the real enemy of the people in the USA.

[madfloridian]

12. Tancredo even alarms Michael Medved...at Town Hall.

Yet our Democrats, 50 of them, vote with him. Maybe this is some kind of weird strategy I don't understand. :shrug:

I hate to link to Town Hall. It is easy to find if you want the whole thing. Here are the pertinent parts:

Friday’s Wall Street Journal reported more alarming news for the Republican Party: according to the new WSJ/NBC Poll, Hispanics now identify themselves as Democrats rather than Republicans by a horrifyingly lopsided margin of 51% to 21%.

This reflects a collapse of Hispanic support for Republicans since 2004, when Bush nearly matched John Kerry in the Latino community, 45% to 55%.

..."Senator Mel Martinez, an ardent advocate of comprehensive immigration reform and Chairman of the Republican National Committee, tried to put the best possible spin on the new figures. He told the Journal that “a skillful 2008 Republican candidate can recover ground because ‘Hispanics tend to personalize politics’ rather than identify with parties.”

Yeh, that's Martinez, spin and twist.

More and the money quote from Medved:

The new poll should come as a sobering reminder that the current hysteria against “illegal aliens” (and even opposition to further legal immigration by Tom Tancredo and his followers) is helping to alienate the most rapidly growing ethnic segment of the American electorate.

Ok, so can someone who is more of a "chess" player than I am...I don't play much "chess" more "checkers"...

Can someone who is in on things explain why Medved sees it so clearly and 50 of our Democrats supported Tancredo?

:shrug:

:think:

[madfloridian]

14. Chess or Checkers? Or as Tancredo says...a message to Pelosi?

I simply can not figure this out. Here is how Tancredo is spinning it.

"Tancredo's victory in the House comes on the eve of efforts by Bush and the Senate to revive debate next week on the administration's failed immigration-reform plan. He said the sanctuary-city amendment's passage indicates the House would defeat the current immigration bill if it passes in the Senate.

"If I were Nancy Pelosi, I'd be asking if she could pass a vote on amnesty on the House side," Tancredo said. "If she lost 50 Democrats on this one, and she says she needs 70 Republicans to pass the immigration plan, this is an interesting indicator of things coming down the pike, and that the times, they are a-changing."

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56215

So this has put Tancredo, the guy who said Miami was Third World...in the position of controlling Nancy Pelosi...according to him.

Please, someone in the know, why did they do this?

[madfloridian]

15. List of the Democrats who voted for it.

May not be totally correct. Let me know if you see mistakes.

Dems in favor, but double check:

Altmire

Baird
Barrow
Boren
Boswell
Boyda (KS)
Braley (IA)

Cohen
Cooper
Cramer
Cuellar

Davis, Lincoln
DeFazio
Donnelly

Ellsworth

Giffords
Gillibrand
Gordon

Hill
Holden
Hooley

Kildee
Kind
Klein (FL)

Lampson
Lipinski
Lynch

Mahoney
Marshall
Matheson
McIntyre
Melancon
Mitchell
Murphy, Patrick

Norton

Obey

Perlmutter
Peterson (MN)
Pomeroy

Ross

Sestak
Shuler
Skelton
Smith (WA)
Space
Spratt

Tanner
Taylor

Yarmuth

I got 48 this time, but 50 another, so not sure. The articles all say 50. Just added Ellsworth, should be 49.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll485.xml