If Kerry is "more electable" than Dean. . .

[Brian_Expat]

. . . and all Dean's "crazy commie supporters" are bringing down the party and would lose to Bush, then why does Kerry need my "crazy commie vote?"

I'm curious. Any ideas? :-)

[donco6]

1. To keep crazy Fuhrer out of office?

Just a suggestion.

[Brian_Expat]

3. That's a nice sentiment. . .

. . . but the reality is that on the issues I care about, like balancing the budget, tax cuts, anti-gay laws, the Iraq war, and a host of other issues, Bush and Kerry are very close.

It's not a big deal to me if Bush gets elected to lobby for an anti-gay amendment and invade Iraq again, or if Kerry gets elected to lobby for a "kinder, gentler" anti-gay amendment "with the right language" and invade Iraq again.

I'm afraid you'll have to do more than use the Bush boogeyman, even if the Shrub is an idiot.

[Darth_Kitten]

4. What you said.

Bravo!!!!! :D :hi:

It is NEVER enough to JUST elect "somebody" other than Bush!!!

[HawkerHurricane]

16. No difference...

We all know how Kerry will keep Ashcroft in office, and continue to appoint right wing nutcases to judgeships, and rewrite EPA regulations to allow polluters to continue pouring sludge in the air, and invade more countries to continue the PNAC agenda, and persecute minor Democratic party contributers while allowing major Republican contributers walk for worse crimes, and fight to eliminate Affirmitive Action programs, and...

Bush says you are either with him or the terrorists.
AntiKerry folks say you are either against him or with Bush.
Same/Same.

[donco6]

7. I don't *have* to do anything, Brian.

No one has to convince you, Brian. If it's a toss-up to you, try a coin.

[Brian_Expat]

12. So basically, you agree with me then?

i.e. You agree that Kerry doesn't need my vote or the votes of other Dean supporters?

[Kahuna]

37. Dean supporters are not lemmings. Many have already left...

the flock. Sorry to break it to you, but they have. That's why Kerry is winning instead of Dean.

[ringmastery]

8. Want another Scalia or Thomas on the supreme court?

How about 2, 3, or maybe even 4 Thomas and Scalia's????

That and that reason alone is why you should get rid of Shrub.

[Brian_Expat]

13. They only get in if Democrats in the Senate permit it. . . n/t

[Kahuna]

39. And if the dems are in a veto proof minority? What then?

:shrug:

[quaker bill]

17. So you are convinced that the Dems in the senate have no spine

That whole 'advice and consent' bit in the constitution is meaningless, correct?

Of course considering the gelatinous behavior over IWR ... you could well be right.

[Kahuna]

38. I hear Ken Starr, John Ashcroft and Ted Olsen are in line

Can't wait. :scared:

[molly]

9. Nader and HD are more like Bush

than Kerry - check the records.

[Brian_Expat]

14. So then I and other Dean supporters should vote Bush/Nader?

That's a new one. A novel approach, I suppose, but unlikely to win the GE for Kerry.

[quaker bill]

18. Kerry is more like Bush

Read the Project for "Progressive Internationalism" report that Kerry basically cut and pasted into his book.

It is why he supported IWR.

[Kahuna]

35. Then you have to do what you have to do... If the

America that George Bush is making doesn't make you vote for his only viable opponent, nobody can make you do it. I won't try.

[janx]

36. They are so close, in fact, that it minimizes Kerry's "electability"

in the general election, and that is the real peril.

This isn't just about ideals; it's about practical strategies to get Bush and his cronies out.

[dansolo]

29. I thought the crossover Republicans

Were going to win it for Kerry. Isn't that the basis for the "electability" issue? If Kerry is incapable of getting enough crossover votes, then the whole notion of "electability" was a fraud (which I knew it was).

[liberalnurse]

2. Thats the the simple truth of the " Big Picture".

Kerry has not shown respect to Dean.....ever.....as far as I know. He has alienated many die-hard democrats via his treatment of Dean.

We ain't just foot-loose independents. I've never not voted or not voted for the democratic nominee....That includes Dukakis....

There is always a first time you see. ....No guarantees....I will just write-in Dean's name.....Kerry has behaved poorly to multiple constituients..... I sense he finds us expendable.

[Kahuna]

5. His treatment of Dean?!?! Dean has attacked Kerry ..

mercilessly from day one. Dean also attacked Clark and Gephardt. Do you think we have all forgotten that?

[ima_sinnic]

34. Dean attacked Kerry? my my, I wonder why?

he couldn't have had any good reasons, now, could he?? the things about Kerry that he attacked couldn't have been true or anything, could they?
</sarcasm>

[molly]

10. Please provide examples on how and when Kerry

"behaved poorly to multiple constituients".

[quaker bill]

19. Read the bit about how

he locked his door to anti-war progressives over IWR.

That should cover it.

[Ninga]

20. Kerry's campain and behind the scene

push polling, offering VP and cabinet posts, strong arming the Iowa caucus, late night calls to voters in New Hampshire posing as the Dean campaign. Flyers left on cars degradeing Dean. On and On.

[Kahuna]

41. Remember that time in IA when Kerry told that guy to..

sit down and listen... Wait! That was Dean. My bad. :eyes:

[eileen_d]

6. To answer this question, I would have to agree with your premises

And I don't agree with any of them.

For starters, "Kerry is more electable than Dean"
Dean could be electable; it's just that he's not winning any elections. To me, electable is an "after-the-fact" description, ex. Kerry won the Tennessee primary; therefore he is electable in TN.

I don't think Dean's supporters are "crazy commies" either.

I don't think you were really looking for a straight answer, either. :shrug:

Edited to clarify definition of "electable"

[meegbear]

11. "crazy commie supporters"?

And who said that? Names? Links?

[Brian_Expat]

15. It's definitely the media innuendo

And happily accepted in the Kerry and Gephardt camps.

I cannot provide a direct quote of either -- but neither can I or anyone else provide a direct Bush quote that Iraq was an imminent danger. Does that mean that such a Bush meme didn't exist?

[union_maid]

24. I've never heard Dean supporters called commies

Maybe by the Freepers, but they think anyone to the left of their shrub is a commie. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against communists, but Dean is a fiscal conservative, relatively speaking. The diehard Dean people are more just this year's "mad as hell and I'm not going to take it" crop.

No reason in the world you should support Kerry now if you don't agree with him on issues that are important to you. Kucinich is still in the race, last I heard. If Dean drops out, maybe you should have a look at him. More support for Kucinich is a good thing. It sends a message and supports progressive politics.

Now, why should you support the eventual nominee, who will probably, but certainly not definitely, be Kerry? Because you don't want him to get there without your support. That's the way to make you and your causes irrelevant to both parties, rather than just one. And you do have to compromise. So do I. So does everyone. For instance, I think it's criminal that we don't have a single payer, universal healthcare system and that none of the viable candidates have that in their platform and that none of them at all would probably be able to deliver it. I'm not taking my vote to a third party that is campaigning on what they can't do. I'm voting Democrat, and will continue to work toward that goal in various ways, most of which don't directly involve the presidential election.

[Nashyra]

21. I was completely turned off to a candidate because

of some of their supporters comments and posts here of Clark, especially the two man race thing. After Clark dropped out I was soo pissed about the media coverage that Clark did not get that I promised to go to Dean because I wouldn't look at the other southern candidate which was for less than ideal reasons, they were personal which is what we can't do in politics and then I did not want the candidate that the media had picked for us. This campaign started out as ABB and most of the candidates agreed but as things tighten up things have a tendency to get ugly, if the cnadidates can find it amongst themselves to get along I guess we should too. Dean has said that he would support the nominee, Clark said that he would support the nominee, I said I support Clark, if I trusted Clark enough to vote for him for President I guess I should trust him enough to back his endorsement which in politics is actually an extension of supporting him. So yes we need all the other candidates supporters when it comes down to it after your candidate pulls out and yes it is not a done deal yet, who knows something might happen, but when the time comes we need to remember that it might not all be ABB but the Dems against Bush and that has to mean all the Dems against * so that we can take back the WH and get something done. The Dean and Clark grassroot movement will have ever changed politics and we know the internet will play a more serious role in future elections. Maybe the media whores will be getting less and less exposure because of the internet.

[Zomby Woof]

22. We only WISH Dean was a "commie"

Or had "commie" supporters. But that has never been the case for either candidate or supporter alike.

Most of the self-professed liberals supporting Dean freely admit he is a center-right ideologue, who will somehow magically "Take my country back!" for them. Uh huh. ;-)

Based on his own words from the time IWR was voted upon, until the eve of the Iraq invasion, it is clear he would have voted for IWR had he been in the Senate or House. His opposition was opportunism at its worst. He would have voted for the Patriot Act too, for only Wellstone voted against it in the Senate, and Dean is NO Wellstone. In the House, I doubt if he would have joined the only real progressive in the race, Kucinich, on the same opposing vote.

Of course, we'll never know, since he has enjoyed the luxury of opportunists throughout history - no accountability.

But Dean sinks into further irrelevance today... 4 years from now his candidacy will be remembered as another one of those faux-populist insurgencies that crop up every so many elections.

[WiseMen]

23. He Does NOT. Kerry said "If you believe I would have taken us to War

without it being the last resort, as Bush did, then DONT VOTE FOR ME.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. If Dean is more "electable" than Kerry why is he 0 for 14?

[chyjo]

26. because of various conspiracies

obviously.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. mainly a conspiracy by the voting public to vote for someone else

[chyjo]

28. no one should make the mistake

of marginalizing the conspiracy theorist vote.....especially here.

[Tim_in_HK]

30. Haha!

Excellent point.

[polpilot]

42. The pro-war DLC has their establishment candidate. Pro-war Kerry.

Dean fought the demos and the repubs. Go to the DLC site for an excellent education of their Kerry candidate

[DU GrovelBot]

31. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

RUN C:\GROVELBOT.EXE
 
This week is our first quarter 2004 fund drive.
Please take a moment to donate to DU. Thank you
for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[Dookus]

32. oh goody

another thread where we're supposed to grovel for somebody's vote.

We need an electoral grovelbot, I think.

Brian_Expat - I don't give a shit who you vote for. How's that for an answer? The small number of disgruntled Dean supporters are nothing compared to the millions of OTHER voters who will see an opportunity to remove Bush and put a real liberal in the White House.

How come nobody asks us to grovel for LaRouche voters? The answer is obvious - there aren't enough of them to worry about.

[private_ryan]

33. he doesn't

they're 100 million people who will vote and he can't beg for everyone. Don't vote for him if you don't want. Happy now?

[KFC]

40. Exactly. These self-serving vote-begging threads are weak

I guess it is a need for attention.

Go ahead and write yourself in, for all I care.

[bowens43]

43. Don't vote for him.......