I think Dean should drop out and endorse Edwards or vice versa

[jeter]

I agree with those that say that this nomination has been good for the party. It keeps our party and eventual nominee on his toes.

At this stage it really should be down to two candidates.

So Kerry is number one. Edwards and Dean are about tied for number two.

I hope one them drops out and endorses the other and this race becomes:

Kerry vs. Edwards or Dean

That way we:

a) keep the race going.
b) test Kerry against a one-on-one opponent (with debates and the whole nine yards)
c) come one step closer to reuniting the party.

[Padraig18]

1. If Howard drops out, I hope he does endorse Edwards

We absolutely must do everything in our power to deny Kerry the nomination!

[Dookus]

3. That's a nonsensical position....

Attempt to "deny" the nomination to the man who will obviously win it does nothing to help Dems and does everything to help Bush's reelection.

6. not so obvious

that if the race had been between two candidates all along, that Kerry would be in such a strong position. After all, he's only been winning pluralities.

[Dookus]

8. which is a helluva lot more than Dean

is winning.

Kerry, by virtue of the fact that he keeps winning primaries, is the strongest candidate. Dean is far far behind. He's 0 for 14.... would you bet on a boxer with that record?

I wouldn't.

I think the petulant calls to "stop Kerry" by certain people is terribly destructive at this point. The primary race is no longer wide open. Kerry's far and away the frontrunner, and every poll shows he's going to consolidate that lead even further in the near future.

Attemps to "stop him" now from Dems is not just childish, it's downright hurtful to our chances to defeat Bush.

[Padraig18]

10. Not if there's still a better candidate remaining.

And there are at least two who are better, IMO.

12. thanks

I was going to say something like that.

[Dookus]

15. they are NOT

better candidates if they can't even win their own party's support.

I don't even see how people can claim that Dean is more electable than Kerry if Dean can't even win ONE primary. If Dems won't vote for him, who else will? It's petulant, childish and spiteful to try to derail the eventual nominee because one's personal choice didn't win.

[Padraig18]

7. It's NOT nonsensical...

... if you don't happen to have bought into the 'electability' bullshit about Kerry, and I have not done so.

[Dookus]

9. "electable"

means people will vote for him. He's proving that now by consistently beating the shit out of your guy.

How on Earth can a candidate who can't even win a single primary in his OWN party be considered more electable than the guy who's won almost every one?

[Padraig18]

16. ENOUGH!

I believe JK to be the weakest candidate we could send against * in November, and NOTHING will convince me otherwise!

[Dookus]

19. then put your fingers in your ears and hum...

you can't post on a public board and expect everyone to agree with you.

Your beliefs are irrelevant - Kerry is proving he's the most electable by winning primaries, AND by polling better against Bush than the other candidates.

You can't use your own personal preference as an accurate guide. Dean clearly is NOT electable, and it's MY belief that if he were to be the nominee, we'd lose in a landslide. But that's just MY belief. I point to the overwhelming lead Kerry has in the primaries AND the polls matching him against Bush to show that he's more electable than the other candidates.

[Padraig18]

24. Belief--- BINGO!

It's something one is not badgered into changing, you know?

[Dookus]

27. No..

but reasonable people use logic and evidence to change their beliefs. The evidence that Kerry is more electable than Dean is twofold: Kerry is beating the snot out of him among Democrats, and in national polls of ALL voters, Kerry is now beating Bush. Dean is not.

I don't know what other evidence could be used right now.

[Padraig18]

29. Look at all my posts in this thread.

have I once used Gov. Dean's name? How do you know I'm not referring to EDWARDS? :eyes:

[Dookus]

34. The same rules apply to Edwards...

he's not winning much, either.

I used Dean's name because you have a Dean avatar and have been an outspoken supporter of his. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

[Padraig18]

35. Are you caling me disingenuous?

That would be a personal attack, you know?

[Dookus]

36. then hit alert

and let the mods decide if I've broken any rules.

[KC21304]

28. Logic, logic, logic.

Dean,Dean, Dean. LOL

17. because Republicans vote in the general election

The fact that a lot of Democrats vote for Any Democrat doesn't say a thing about actual electability in a general election. Wish it did.

[Padraig18]

22. Thank you!

'Taxachussetts' and 'Massachussetts liberal' will alienate enough moderate Republicans and independents to assure a second * term. Kerry's 'electability' is a smoke-and-mirrors MYTH! :puke:

[Dookus]

25. saying it doesn't make it true....

"angry small-state lunatic" might alienate some people, too. In fact, it's alienating Democrats already.

If you think Dean can win with Republican votes, then he should run for the Republican nomination.

[Padraig18]

31. Did I say that?

Answer: No.

[Dookus]

37. the bigger point I'm trying to make

is that there is no evidence Dean would do better against Bush than Kerry. In fact, there IS evidence against it.

[Padraig18]

38. 8 1/2 months before the election?

Any so-called 'evidence' is shit. The so called 'evidence' (polls) had US slaughtering Kerry, too. Might as well be a Roman augur trying to read piegeon entrails, as to cite polls as 'evidence' of ANYTHING.

[Dookus]

40. You don't have to like it

but the fact is there *IS* evidence today showing Kerry to be the stronger candidate against Bush.

You have provided NO evidence to show that Dean is, other than your own belief and your own rhetoric.

Is the evidence for Kerry a guarantee? of course not.

Say we have two heavyweight fighers going up against Lennox Lewis. One of them has a record of 0 for 14, the other 12 for 14. The reasonable betting person would pick the latter. Is it a guarantee he'd win? Nope. But it's evidence that he's the better bet.

[Dookus]

23. so is it your contention

that while Dean can't get Democrats to vote for him, he'll win with Republican voters?

I don't agree.

32. actually that is my contention

in some ways.
All the Democrats that would vote for Kerry would vote for Dean. They certainly aren't going to vote for Bush.
I think Dean would probably get more Republican votes than Kerry.

The independents are kind of the wild card.

Might also be able to say the same thing about Edwards.

Despite the Dean sticker in my sig here, I began writing in the first post I made, thinking of it in more abstract terms. Supporters of any candidate can reasonably state that Kerry has mostly only won pluralities and that his winning in primaries doesn't really say much about electability in a general election.

[KC21304]

33. Does the fact that a lot of Democrats do not vote for a person

make you think that person would win the general election ? And then to add more nonsense to the mix, what if that person also was shown to lose to Bush ? That's a winner we all have to get behind !

39. yes

I think Democrats are going to vote for whoever the nominee is.in the general election.
The question is who are Republicans and independents going to vote for.
The Democrats not voting for a candidate you are referring to are votes in the primaries which are not the same beast.

[Dookus]

41. well

absent running a mock election now, we have to satisfy ourselves with the evidence at hand.

The current polls show Kerry beating Bush. They show Bush beating Dean. Dean has had 40 million dollars and two years to make his case to the American people, and has failed to convince them to vote for him.

I don't see how a man who can't win a single primary is a better candidate in the GE than the man who's won the vast majority.

If I made the argument that Sharpton would beat Bush, I would expect people to call me on it, and at least provide some evidence.

42. current polls

swing around a lot, don't they? I think they're very moody. I will grant you, that's the way they look now, but it wasn't so long ago all the major Democratic candidates were within Margin of error of Bush.

I'm getting paid overtime right now, I better go back to work! Don't mean to avoid discussion if I stop responding.

[mouse7]

2. You think Vice Versa is a strong candidate?

I'm not sure how much effect an endorsement of Versa will have.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

4. They should hold hands and drop out together

But no kissy-poo.

[arewethereyet]

5. Dean needs to drop out period. And endorse someone if he wants.

Even when the Kerry story finally breaks big Dean is in no position to take advantage of it.

[joshcryer]

11. You're just saying that because Dean and Edwards are spoilers...

...to each other. I assure you that Dean will not drop out until it's far too late for Edwards to make a comeback. Edwards needs to drop out soon or we'll be getting Kerry guaranteed.

[AP]

Edwards and Dean staring each other down. Dean will have to blink first,

just like Clark did.

Why should Edwards? He's getting the matching money, and the donations, and beating Dean in the polls.

[joshcryer]

21. Because Dean isn't going to let go...

I don't see Dean quitting until after Super Tuesday at the earliest.

[arewethereyet]

26. OK I'll bite

so Edwards drops out in ten minutes, who rebounds to stop the Kerry juggernaut ? Sharpton or Kucinich ? It sure as heck isn't Dean.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. At this late date it will only have Kerry win in more of a landslide

Dean's problems go much deeper than anyone cares to admit. He was given and followed poor advice following Iowa.

Edwards has a good message but literally began running for the presidency from the moment he hit the senate.

Either way, I have no real position on anyone dropping. Let them hang in there as long as they please, but if and when they do go out, let it be with grace.

[KurtNilsen]

14. You have a point.

I feel it would be a major mistake to elect Kerry. His electebility is a myth. His voting record alone will be his bane, even thoug it seems like all political commentators in Norway adores him. ABB is a trap.

We need a candidate who can inspire America (and the World).

[Padraig18]

18. Thank you!

:thumbsup:

[KC21304]

20. I seem to remember that the worstest strike against Kerry was

his vote on the war. And will anyone care to be honest and say that Edwards was for the war, no questions asked ? So wouldn't that put Kerry's position at least a little closer to Dean ? But carry on.

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[dansolo]

43. He should not endorse anyone (n/t)

[jeter]

44. I think any Democrat would beat Bush

Dean, Edwards or Kerry.

I think Kerry's numbers in the polls reflect his winning the primaries. People now associate him with winning. If Dean had won, then he would be ahead in the polls.

But the argument that Kerry is unelectable and a reason to vote for Dean is laughable. How can anyone really believe that?

I think we got the greatest issue of all time:

the lost jobs, jobs going overseas. Bush has had an absolute inept response to this. 2.5 million jobs will kill him. Believe me. It will kill him. No matter what ads about "Massachusettes Liberals" they put up.

2.5 million jobs - over and over again. This will kill him.

So will Iraq and foriegn policy. At least he won't be able to use it.

It's over guys. Democrats are going to win.

The problem with Dean is, like Clark, he has no rationale for his own nomination. He seems to want Democrats to nominate him in order to punish other Democrats, rather than nominating him because HE is the better candidate.

I can't think of a single reason to vote for Dean, other than he isn't Kerry. I don't mind Kerry.

That's his problem.

[Leilani]

45. I think the real problem is this front loaded primary

cooked up by Terry McAwful.

I don't think any candidate should be pressured to get out of the race, as long as there are delegates to be won. They say 24 hours is a lifetime in politics. Who knows what will happen.

I was & am a big Clark supporter & I wish he had not gotten out, but that was his decision.

But I'm truly mad that grass roots efforts have been thwarted in this race, & in the long run it does not make for happy campers.