Don't you just want to slap those who say they won't vote for the nominee

[qanda]

I was having a conversation with my sister earlier today and we both agreed that we're not too keen on Kerry, but I will vote for whoever ends up as the Democratic nominee in the General Election. She, on the other hand, said that since she lives in a state that will probably go for the Democrat, she won't vote for Kerry if he gets the nod. Well, I tried to tell her that every single vote counts and we have to get rid of Bush* in November. I also told her that if she votes for someone other than the Democratic nominee and Bush* wins, I don't want to hear her complain about Bush* at all for the next four years.

She thinks she'll be selling out on her beliefs if she doesn't vote her conscious and I guess I can understand that. However, I wanted to slap her good and tell her to forget principles, we have to get Bush* out of office in 2004.

Should I back off or should I try to make her understand just how important every single vote will be in November?

[Lefta Dissenter]

1. Lock her in a closet

and go cast her vote for her. Seems pretty simple! :shrug:

[NV1962]

3. LOL!

:spank:

[qanda]

6. LOL

That's last resort stuff, but hey I might have to go there.

[bluestateguy]

2. Give her a little space--for now

be nice and listen to her while it's still early, but start playing hardball if she won't budge and it's September or October.

[MurikanDemocrat]

4. The sledge hammer approach doesn't win anyone over.

I know it sure doesn't work for me in any debate.

I don't have an answer for you, maybe someone else does, but there is a lot of time between now and November. Maybe she will become more malleable by then.

Well, I do see some points to bring up - for me the USSC appointments and other judicial appointments alone are enough to change history for the next generation or two.

[AndyTiedye]

12. We Have no Safe States (Not THAT Safe, Anyway) because of BBV and Nader

Former Senator Max Cleland was considered "safe",
and he was up by double-digits in the polls,
but he "lost".

Progressives loudly proclaiming their refusal to vote Democratic
only make the election easier to steal plausibly.

Rove has surely written the copy already:

"There was a surge of angry white homophobes that swung a bunch of
votes to Bush*, and we also had a big surge to Nader in the liberal areas. Our exit polls were once again plagued with 'bad data',
which is why we refused to publish them, but we can trust these
results are free of any hanging chads, becasue they were all
recorded by the brand-new Diebold Republican Electing Machinez.
We won't have to worry about recounts or hanging chads, anymore,
heh, heh."

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

5. You make too much sense

Every vote against Bush is valuable.

[maxanne]

7. by all means

violence is the appropriate reaction when faced with someone who intends to stick to their principles.

[Norquist Nemesis]

8. I think alot of people are like your sister

As to whether to stay on her or not, you know her best for gentle prodding reminders or all out sibling bullying. LOL It mostly depends on how badly she wants a new administration. Does she think she can handle four more years of Bush? Many of us are going to have to bite the bullet and do it.

Who is she rooting for? If they have issues that are the same as Kerry (since it looks like that's who's going to get the nod) but different from Bush? I'd arm myself with those to try and convince her, but more than anything I'd probably bribe her with everything I've got and enlist other family members to push her into it too.

[qanda]

10. She is very progressive

I think DK or Sharpton fit her taste the most. She voted for Nader in 2000 and she absolutely despises Bush*, but does not see how her vote will change anything. It *really* bugs me that she wants to throw away her vote and I guess I'm just blowing off some steam tonight.

[Paulie]

11. She sounds like the one with her head screwed on correctly

Maybe you should buy her lunch, and just sit there and LISTEN. ;) :P

[qanda]

64. Aw, that's cold!

I actually didn't say she didn't have her screwed on correctly. Under normal circumstances she would be trying to talk me into doing something against my principles, but these are NOT normal circumstances. I am feeling desperate-- we have to get Bush* out of office.

[Norquist Nemesis]

40. No change?

I'm a little confused by her saying it won't "change" anything but she hates Bush. She needs to realize there are others who are thinking like her too about her vote not making a difference. I guess that's the best argument...no change is guaranteed without her vote. It matters.

[Cheswick2.0]

51. maybe you should listen to her

ever think of that?

[BeyondGeography]

9. Her principles and voting against Bush are one in the same

Your vote is currency. Sometimes you get to send a message, other times you have to spend it as if you've heard the message. And the message coming from Bush is, four more years and I will bankrupt this nation with my permanent tax cuts to the rich to the point where you won't be able to salvage Social Security, public health insurance and public education.

It's no joke.

All of our candidates are promising to roll back Bush's tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans and reinvest in our future. Bush is promising permanent and never-ending tax cuts to the wealthy and a decimated federal budget. Only the Democratic nominee has a chance to beat Bush. What the hell else does she need to know?

[maxanne]

14. heaven forbid

she should actually use her vote the way she sees fit.

[BeyondGeography]

15. What part of "Bush is evil and destructive"

do we not understand?

These aren't Republicans, they are extremists who are in the process of permanently distorting our public life.

Whatever she does with her vote, most people get it. Nader and his ilk are going nowhere in 2004.

[maxanne]

16. what part of she's a citizen

with a vote that is hers to use as she sees fit do "we" not understand?

[BeyondGeography]

17. Truce: Can we at least count on your vote in November?

"We," meaning the Democratic Party?

[Paulie]

18. Earn mine, and it's yours :)

Kucinich has earned my vote. So far, none of the others have. Is that too much to ask?

Because if it's all ABB, and a ham sandwich can kick * out of the people's house, then give me Dennis on the ticket and be happy about it.

Dennis, the UNITY canidate we can all agree on! :D

[BeyondGeography]

21. Dennis isn't going to be on the ticket

And I'm sure, being the good Democrat that he is, he will energetically campaign for the nominee, because HE of all people knows what the stakes are this year. Hopefully, his supporters will follow his example.

[Paulie]

28. The stakes - More of the Same???

That's what is at stake. We have a chance to vote for real change, not more mushy DLC style run to the center-right.

Putting canidates with baggage up against * when we can beat him with two hands behind our backs is A TOTAL WASTE!

[BeyondGeography]

32. If Dennis says, "I'm voting for John Kerry,"

which he will, then, hopefully, you will too.

Anyway, here's a good article on Dennis in tomorrow's WP:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42609-2004Feb14.html

[Paulie]

35. People were saying the same thing before New Hampshire about DEAN

Now look where we are? ;)

I'm not going to settle for second best, sorry, but that's the way it is. On March 16th, Dennis is getting my VOTE. It's about the last man standing in Boston. :)

Can't read the article, I don't register on newspaper sites. :(

[BeyondGeography]

39. This thread is about the GE, not the primaries

eom

[Paulie]

48. It's about Kerry

I just re-read item 0, and the originator wants to commit violence against their sister because she has reservations about Kerry if he gets the nod.

So again, it comes down to giving people a choice, so they don't have to feel left out or look elsewhere. Vote for the Unity Canidate! :D

[maxanne]

20. no you can't

I'm not interested in being part of a party that is threatening purges.

I'm a real, old fashioned, dyed in the wool bleeding heart liberal. There is no place for me in today's corporate Democratic party. As the Dems swing ever further to the right, they move away from everything they once stood for - and they lose every election to boot. That rightward shift didn't help a bit in 2002.

I'll be changing my registration to independent - and doing my best to start a kickass third party.

[Cheswick2.0]

54. I am a democrat who has voted for every democrat in every election

since 1976. I haven't so much as missed a vote for dog catcher or school board. If kerry is the nominee you can not count on my vote. This is particularly true because of the OSAMA and other attack adds against my nominee by Kerry and Gephardt and other assorted vote fraud and intimidation. It might have been different, but the party decided to go Tom Delay on us and I will not be led sheep like to do the party bidding.

Do you understand yet? If you have not voted I suggest you vote for someone besides Kerry or we are doomed. I won't vote for him, but worse many swing voters will not either once Rove is finished with him.

PS.. what possible issues can Kerry run on when he has voted with bush more often than not in the last three years?

[Cheswick2.0]

52. what part of kerry voted for all of bush's policy don't we understand?

Hmmm?

[oasis]

13. The Diebold machines may be rigged for every 4th Dem vote to count as GOP.

Every vote counts.

[Cheswick2.0]

57. diebold may be rigged for every 4th dem vote to count for Kerry

every vote against him counts.

[DFLforever]

19. You're lucky to have such a sister.

Not easily intimidated even by Bush. Take the fear factor away from Bush, and what is left? a stupid, weak man with little power.

[Guaranteed]

22. NOMINATE SOMEONE OTHER THAN KERRY.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

On edit: If he's so goddamned electable, why are people refusing to vote for him? I thought you were taking these issues into consideration? Or were you not caring if actual Democrats vote for him?

[NV1962]

24. VOTE FOR HIM

PROBLEM SOLVED.

[Cheswick2.0]

58. nope

he's a 49 state loss waiting to happen

[neverforget]

23. How about Supreme Court nominations, the draft, the defunding of

the social programs, more war, more tax cuts for the rich, etc, etc. She can vote for whoever she wants obviously but this election is more important than others. The Republicans control ALL of the Federal Government and things will only get worse. They are stealing our future!

This election is not just about who I want (notice my avatar :cry:) but about the future of our country. It's bigger than you or me. It's about us, not the individual. Our future is at stake and I would ask your sister to consider that. In order to affect change, the Democrats need to be in power and, if we lose, all we can do is bitch and that accomplishes nothing.

[union_maid]

26. Very, very true

Not to mention that if all the progressives leave the party there are only two possible scenarios:

The progressives and the causes most important to them will be further marginalized. Just as winning over the Christian Right is not a very real possiblity for a Democrat, neither will it be possible to depend on support from the left, so therefore their opinions will count for less than they do now.

Or two..a stronger third party will come about - thereby guaranteeing the reign of the Republicans indefinitely.

Or both could happen.

Nothing good can come of it. Nothing that will help one living person on this earth.

[gate of the sun]

29. who said Kerry won't have a draft?

has he said it???not to my knowledge. You trust too much my friend. Apparently Kerry said he's going to get 40,000 more soldiers in his first 100 days of office...how will he do that? granted he may tax the rich but what else can we depend on him for?


on another note....not directed at neverforget.
This thread makes me sick.
I wish more people would vote with their principles and let someone who represents us win. I am sickened and sad by what is happening right here on DU. Everything is being shelved to get bush out and he's going out anyway. I feel as though I've landed in a universe where nothing matters anymore. ABB has stolen the heart of the Democratic party.

[Cheswick2.0]

60. how about the thousand of dead in iraq, the billions spent

the civil rights stealing patriot act, the prisoners in Gitmo, the punitive and education destroying NCLB?

[justinpower]

25. Glad you asked for advice

you clearly need it. You see in a democracy people can vote for whom they wish. They ideally then wouldnt be blamed for an opposition candidate winning. Get off the DNC thug wagon it is a lame excuse for for bullying.

[union_maid]

27. Absolutely

People can vote for George Bush, too. It's their right in this country. We can still be pissed off about it and try to convince them otherwise. It's the same thing.

[Cheswick2.0]

61. or you can vote for someone who is neither John Kerry nor Bush

and will also not appoint right wing judges or defund medicare or SS. You do know Kerry is not the nominee yet?

[genius]

30. I don't think a lot of the people saying that here are Democrats.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Republicans were saying that hoping some gullible Democrats would follow their lead.

As for your sister, I bet she'll come around and vote for the nominee. You've got till November to work on her.

[Cheswick2.0]

63. oh but we are 85- 90 percent democrats

better wise up to what is happening before it is too late.

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[blujig]

33. You might try explaining the importance of every vote!

When I was a kid Black Americans were denied voting privileges routinely. It might sound corny but the right to vote is precious and shouldn't be taken lightly. I live in a republican state, my vote probably won't matter but I will go cast it anyway. Civil Rights workers died trying to register voters down south but I guess all of that is forgotten today. I wish this party could pull together to get Bush out of the White House. We've lost 534 precious American lives and the economy stinks for the average American. I can't say that whomever our nominee is will be able to fix all that is wrong but surely it will be an improvement.

[SWPAdem]

34. The ONLY vote of conscience in the upcoming election is

FOR the Democrat, whoever that may be. Anything else is a vanity vote. If you love this country, if you want to fix the political system, take back the Democratic party, or start a viable third party, putting ABB in office is the absolute first step.

Yes, people are "entitled" to their vote. But, they are supposed to use it to benefit the country as a whole, not stroke their fragile egos. What does that "pure" vote change, I ask? Nothing....just like the pro-life people that vote Repuke.

And, yes, there are surely times that my hand just itches to slap some sense into some people.

[quaker bill]

66. For you perhaps this is true.

But to want to impose the dictates of your conscience on the rest of the world is right wing politics.

As a Dean supporter I can relate to the frustration of having people not agree with your choice. However, I would never state that people cannot in perfectly good conscience, choose to support another candidate.

Many people will, in perfectly good conscience, choose to vote for Bush* in November. I will not, but I know some who will and they are good, caring, honest people.

I feel that they are making a mistake, but I know that they are not evil and do not intend to destroy the country.

[SWPAdem]

68. Excuse me, I WAS stating an opinion

not a plan to force anyone to vote a certain way. I stand by what I said. It doesn't matter how we think things should be...where we have a political system that is not run by special interests, the candidates are plentiful and truly represent the people, and citizens are informed and involved. The reality of what we have is a corrupt system THAT WILL NOT BE FIXED by "conscience" votes, this time around. Just what effect did the last round of conscience votes have? Are we better off?
People may vote for anyone they please because of any issue and call it their vote of conscience. But, unless, they are voting for the good of the country as a whole, they are only fooling themselves, and have no claim to a higher moral ground. Bush has to go, PERIOD.

[kodi]

36. voting isn't therapy.

.

[Mairead]

37. If the Dem candidate loses in your state by ONE vote

then you might have reason to complain about your sister, but why would she be responsible if he loses by two or more?

[genius]

38. Just show her Kerry's record.

I have been really angry at him at times. I even supported Dean for a while and I currently support Kucinich. Kerry's record is actually better than Dean's on labor and the environment. That's not an attack on Dean but an observation that surprised me. Kerry is not nearly as establishment as some people claim he is. Also I know he was anti-war. I saw him before the war started and I am convinced he was sincerely anti-war. Bush mis-used the resolution and I know Kerry was kicking himself about having been fooled. Who hasn't been fooled at one time or another in their life? Just check his record and you might be pleasantly surprised about him.

[Cheswick2.0]

59. oh contraire

no matter what Kerry's record has been in the past in the last three years he has done nothing to stand up against bush. He has swung way to the right.
IWR, NCLB the Patriot act. I don't think the sister is as stupid as you would like.

[Alinsky]

41. I voted for both Gore and Nader in the 2000 S election

http://votetrader.org/results/
http://www.fairvote.org/plurality/nader.htm

Some 16,000 people traded votes in swing states in 2000. Here are the numbers.

I don't understand how Limbaugh gets away with ranting and raving about the liberal Democrats. Before the 2000 election I always voted the Democratic Party line, because they were somewhat more tolerant of liberalism then conservatives. I even voted for Clinton twice even though he was a Republican Democrat sellout like Kerry.

But in 2000 I traded my Gore vote in a swing state with a Nader voter because in New York my New York vote would not of counted because Gore won the NYC vote by 80% or more over Bush. And I think that liberalism is the answer to solve our social injustices so in 2000 by voting for Nader I was actually for once able to vote my conscience.

http://votetrader.org/results/
http://www.fairvote.org/plurality/nader.htm

[Goldberg]

42. I don't like Kerry much either

but I'll vote for him in November. :)

[CWebster]

43. Kerry is driven by his ambition to be JFK -

it is for his own ego gratification.

He is vain to compensate for the fact that he has nothing to be particularly vain about as a politician or a statesman. Even with all of his primary success, he is still an empty suit, without any substance other than his glory days in Nam. The fact that the media chooses to focus on chimp's AWOL status, and not Kerry's questionable record in Nam - or his subsequent rejection of that status, would indicate that he is being given the crown of teflon.


Kerry is unattractive. He possesses no political charm or charisma, is physically awkward, boring, phony, sterotypically elitist and pretentious. He is acceptably conventional, but a weak candidate on his own merit, without media cover. If he wins, it will be because he has been given the nod by those he will be willing to carry water for, but he will not be a popular or well-liked political figure.

[bowens43]

47. Sounds like your candidate already dropped out.

Sour grapes are very bitter.

[Iverson]

44. slap someone for political differences?

I don't go there, and it's a shame if you do.

Here's something unacceptably radical for you to read.

4. NON-VIOLENCE
It is essential that we develop effective alternatives to society’s current patterns of violence. We will work to demilitarize, and eliminate weapons of mass destruction, without being naive about the intentions of other governments. We recognize the need for self-defense and the defense of others who are in helpless situations. We promote non-violent methods to oppose practices and policies with which we disagree, and will guide our actions toward lasting personal, community and global peace.

[MadHound]

45. Forget your principles, vote Democratic

Well, that sounds about the right tone for this political season. That is, after all, the choice that liberals, progressives, and others are faced with. You can either vote for an ongoing(albeit slower) class war against the middle class and poor that both the 'Pugs and Dems are participating in, or you can vote your principles, vote to get a real change started in this country.

The choice is yours, the same ol' same ol', or the start of real change. It is up to you.

[bowens43]

46. I agree, how dare any one have principles.

Winning is all that is important.

Back off. You're wrong. Completely. Everyone should vote their conscience. To do otherwise demeans the electoral process.

[kstewart33]

49. Geez Louise, don't slap your sister!

Physical violence? Forget it. But keep trying to convince her that not voting for Kerry (let's face it, he's the nominee) is as good as voting for Bush.

[Cheswick2.0]

55. he is not the nominee and it is not to late for you to help save the party

from a 49 state loss.

[Cheswick2.0]

50. funny, I have lots of friends who will vote sheeplike for Kerry

I have never wanted to slap them. But then I don't believe in violence and intimidation.

[qanda]

65. I guess joking doesn't translate well on the internet

I would NEVER slap my sister for not doing what I want her to do.

[quaker bill]

53. No, I do not.

People need to vote or not vote in accordance with their conscience. The most I would ask is that they consider the issues deeply before deciding how to act.

[lojasmo]

56. Back off

It is a legitimate decision. I will hold my nose and vote for Kerry in November if needs be, but I won't criticize others for being unable to.

Some concientious objectors, for instance cannot reconcile his vote authorizing force in Iraq when it was PATENTLY obvious the administration was sexing up evidence, and the FBI and CIA were dissavowing their claims.

I certainly wouldn't criticize a republican for choosing not to vote for bush because of, say AWOL or his irresponsible fiscal policies.

[LynneSin]

62. Delaware will easily go dem and I will still vote for the Dem nominee

How simple is that???

:shrug:

[w13rd0]

67. Does she live in a state...

...where she's yet to have a primary? That must suck, having no voice in who to nominate, and then be expected to vote for someone who you didn't want anyway. Every vote counts my ass. Every vote SHOULD count, but it won't if certain parties have their way. And I'm not just talking about Bush.