Daily Democrat: A positive discussion about Wesley Clark

[Skinner]

In an effort to provide for some enlightening discussion, rather than partisan flaming, the administrators have decided to post regular threads about the candidates for the Democratic nomination which are reserved for positive discussion only. These threads will be called the "Daily Democrat".

Currently, we intend to post two Daily Democrat discussion threads per day. If a particular thread becomes too long, then the moderators will open additional threads as necessary. These discussion threads will be allowed to stay open until the next two Daily Democrat threads are opened at some point the following day.

THE RULES

The rules for these Daily Democrat candidate threads are as follows. (For the purposes of these rules, the candidate who is the subject of the thread is referred to as the "Daily Democrat".)

1. You are welcome to post anything positive about the Daily Democrat. You can explain why you support that person. You can dispel myths about that candidate. You can discuss that person's positions on various issues. Whatever.

2. You are allowed to favorably compare the Daily Democrat to other candidates, provided that you are not unnecessarily inflammatory or antagonistic to the other candidates.

3. You may not post attacks of any kind against the Daily Democrat. Furthermore, you cannot post criticism and try to pass it off as a compliment ("I enthusiastically support candidate X because he ruined his state's economy!")

4. You may not discuss the supporters of any candidate (that goes for the the Daily Democrat, or any other candidate).

5. Undecided voters are encouraged to ask questions about the Daily Democrat in order to better inform their choice. Note that criticism disguised as a question will not be allowed.

6. You may not start another discussion thread for the purposes of responding to comments made in the "Daily Democrat" thread. Sorry -- you just have to suck it up and let the positive discussion continue uninterrupted.

7. I will not babysit the Daily Democrat thread, because I believe it will not be necessary. It is the responsibility of every member to know and follow the rules. Deliberate disruption of the Daily Democrat thread, or efforts by opponents to influence the Daily Democrat thread, will result in the banning of the individual(s) responsible.

8. I reserve the right to change the rules as necessary to make this work.

TIMING

We will discuss two Daily Democrats per day, and cycle through the list of presidential candidates in modified alphabetical order.

12/13 - Wesley Clark ...... and ... Dennis Kucinich
12/14 - NO DAILY DEMOCRAT THREAD
12/15 - Howard Dean ....... and ... Joe Lieberman
12/16 - John Edwards ...... and ... Carol Moseley Braun
12/17 - Dick Gephardt ..... and ... Al Sharpton
12/18 - John Kerry ........ and ... Wesley Clark
12/19 - Dennis Kucinich ... and ... Howard Dean
12/20 - Joe Lieberman ..... and ... John Edwards
12/21 - Carol Moseley Braun and ... Dick Gephardt
12/22 - Al Sharpton ....... and ... John Kerry
12/23 - Wesley Clark ...... and ... Dennis Kucinich
12/24 - Etc...

LET'S GET STARTED

Here's your chance for some positive discussion of Wesley Clark! Who wants to start it off?

[Renew Deal]

1. Clark won the latest straw poll.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=929481&mesg_id=929481

DUers are growing closer to Clark.

[wryter2000]

2. Military expertise

His stature as a highly successful general throws water on Bush as the Commander in Chief. His expertise would be invaluable getting us out of Iraq.

[bicentennial_baby]

3. For anyone who missed Clark on CSPAN yesterday:

Great press confeerence with an excellent introduction from both Samantha Power and the woman who headed the non-violent resistance movement in Kosovo (whose name escapes me).


http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=wesley+clark

[Democrats unite]

4. I find Clark to be well rounded and in touch with all the people

He appeals to the young, the old, Straight, Gay, Military, and everyone inbetween.

[Patriot_Spear]

5. Wesley is willing to tell it like it is...

In the same way I like Dean for this trait, I like Clark.

[Jack_Dawson]

6. The General Has a Sincerity I've Never Witnessed

in a normal politician. I get the feeling he actually believes what he's saying. He radiates a certain..."genuineness" and other people I know have noticed it as well (w/o any prompting).

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. Clark is an Outsider

He is an outsider from politics as usual at a time when many in the Nation are desperately looking for something different than politics as usual. I'm pasting something below that I wrote on another thread that I started that sank like a stone lol. It was in reply to another poster stating that Clark is the Establishment:

First off, all terms are relative. No candidate for President capable of polling more than 3% nationally can truly be called an outsider. I am an outsider, I suspect you are an outsider. Even if I had straight down the middle politics, which I don't, I have no connections to power. Strictly speaking no complete outsider has any chance of winning the Presidency. Someone who is still an outsider today might have a chance ten years from now, but that is a different story.

By many definitions Howard Dean would not be called an outsider etther. Only 50 people in the nation get to sit as Governors. More to the point perhaps, Dean served as past chairman of the National Governors Association, the Democratic Governors' Association, and the New England Governors' Conference. That means to me that Dean was intimately familiar with the Democratic Party machinery, and it's operatives, long before he declared for President. He cultivated those ties and relationships. Dean is very good at being a politician.

Clark entered the military right after High School and stayed there for virtually his entire adult life. Obviously Clark has political skills or he would have been unable to rise to the top as he did in his career. However far more than is the norm, Clark had to fight to climb every step of his career ladder based on his unsurpassed peraonal abilities. Clark was just too damn bright, too highly motivated, and too incredibly disciplined to easily be side steped.

Clark didn't even have the personal connections to arrange an insider appointment to West Point by one of AK's Senators, he had to win a statewide competition to secure the one slot awarded strictly on merrit. Clark has always stood out for his abilities wherever he has "competed". He had the ability to be a world class swimmer, and he led his High School team to a State Championship by swimming two seperate legs on their relay team. With Clark his success has always been less who he knew than what he did. Clark doesn't come from a well connected family with an Ivy League peer group. He had to finish first in his Class at West Point to truly stand out there.

Throughout his career Clark has won the occaisional critical backing of some well connected people. If he hadn't his rise would have been blocked, because Clark did not fit the standard military mold. He wasn't one of the good old boys that most other senior military brass liked to surround themselves with. Clark was given his last two major assignments agaisnt the official recccomendations of the military which backed other candidates. Clark was able to move forward despite not being a typical insider, not because of it. He won the attention of a few key backers because he performed brilliantly in every task he was assigned and, all too rarely but occaisinally, true ability is recognized by someone influential, who cares more about results than connections.

Now you may be one of those who equates the military with the Establishment. If you are, and that formular is fixed, it would be difficult to say anything that would alter your views on this matter. I don't feel that way. I think the true insiders are more likely found within the close interplay of professional politicians and Corporaate interests. That's the real Establishment. True, there are those who throw in with the devil from every conceivable vantage point. There are CEO's of Non Profit Charities who are corrupt. There are Church leaders who are corrupt. There are Democratic politicians, and there are Military leaders, who play that currupt insider game. But no, I don't see the military as the Establishment. The military literally is a tool. It is a Hammer. How it is used depends on who is holding the handle. Clark was an independent thinker in the Pentagon who challanged the status quo assuptions of how U.S. strategic interests were to be defined and defended.

Clinton owes a lot to Clark, because Clark was able to facilitate and implement military policies that were attuned more to Clintons more benign world view than that embodied by the Reagan Bush mind set that preceeded him. Clinton had little natural support in the Pentagon, but Clark came through for him. It was disgraceful how Clark ended up being treated by his enemies, and Clinton let that happen on his watch and he knows he blew it. It doesn't surprise me now when Clinton makes small gestures to repay small parts of the debt he owes Clark. If Clinton didn't I would think far less of him as a man.

[Justice]

25. Clark Is More Like You and Me

Clark made it into West Point completely on his own merit. That is remarkably refreshing - no wealthy family, no political connections. Just good solid hard work. That image connects well with the regular person.

At the same time, Clark is amazingly smart. He is optimistic. He is very funny - and has run a campaign that focuses on Bush and not on the democratic opponents.

[boxster]

8. He shows no fear in attacking Bush's failed policies.

I can't wait to see what he says about the 9/11 commission report!

In addition, his recent policy statements on family income, the environment, education, poverty, and health care are very detailed, specific, and intelligent.

[blm]

9. There's a blossoming liberal under that uniform.

And that is a VERY good thing, imo.

[MariaS]

10. American Son

Sunday I watched the bio on Gen. Clark created by Linda Bloodsworth. It was an amazing video and painted a picture of an amazing man. I wish every undecided voter could see that video. At first I was afraid that it was going to be corny but by the end I was wiping the tears off my cheeks. He truely will make an extraodinary American president.

[dobak]

17. wonderful video

I loved it also!

[Anaxamander]

22. Where can I get hold of that video?

And on-topic, when I listen to General Clark, his words ring with sincerity. It comes to this: I believe in him. I believe he can put us in a better place and, best of all, I believe he can trounce George W. Bush. I hope he comes to Tallahassee so I can meet him in person.

[MariaS]

24. American Son Video

This is a wonderful site filled with Clark video and audio. Enjoy

http://www.us4clark.com/mediaclips.html

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. kick n/t

[davsand]

12. Clark was an objective choice for me.

In a very real sense, I've had an awful time settling on a candidate this time. Finally, for me it was a matter of pragmatism.

I hear an awful lot of folks talking about Clark in the context of "I am a lifelong Republican and I am voting Clark..." While that may not be am attractive thing to some of our more left leaning Dems (and I have to confess, early on I resisted Clark) it does mean that he's a candidate with a broad appeal. After I looked over his positions and his plans, I was struck by the fact that he really IS mainstream Dem. This is nobody pretending, IMO.

Something else about Clark that has really hit me is that he is so very at ease with the cameras folllowing him into any setting. This is a guy who doesn't CARE if he's seen with the dirty unwashed masses yucking it up--this is guy who can wear a Tux and not look like he has a board up his backside. That single ability to go anywhere and be at ease with anybody is exactly what I'm thinking we need to clean up the mess that is George Bush's legacy.

I've become convinced he's the "Real Deal" and I never expected that.

Laura

[Crewleader]

13. General Wesley Clark Gives Me Hope!

He'll be a president for all American people first in everything, security in foreign affairs, good economics in the domestic front and in our spiritual quest towards peace for he is a true honorable man and how the world will be a better place because of General Wesley Clark.

I feel this in my heart and will support him all the way!

[DakotaDemocrat]

14. Stated goals in first four years of office! - RIGHT NOW!!!

It's refreshing to hear the people's employee - a politician - say what they are striving for in the first four years in office and you can hold them accountable!

"I, Wesley K. Clark, promise to show the leadership to achieve the following five goals by 2008, while reducing the budget deficit each and every year, and to ask the American people to hold me accountable for meeting these goals:

The typical family's income will increase by $3,000.

I will put in place policies that will prevent 100,000 premature deaths from environmental causes by 2020.

1 million additional students will enroll in higher education.

2 million children will be lifted out of poverty, bringing the poverty rate to lowest on record.

30 million people who currently lack health insurance will get it.

Every President should be held accountable for failing to improve the lives of American families, students, and children. President Bush has failed to lead - I will not. I will hold myself accountable and will provide the leadership and vision that will turn America around and get it moving in the right direction again."

http://www.clark04.com/issues/turnaround/

[FrenchieCat]

15. Clark

as our nominee will help attract voters in the South and hopefully help retain some of the 5 Southern senate Democratic seats that will be at play. As a non appearing partisan he will have coattails in all of the places we need to beat Repugs. That is a definite giant plus.

Clark will also be able to split the military vote better than any other candidate....which can translate in 5 million additional votes (counting military families).

Clark can also attract Republicans who realize that they were wrong in voting for Bush but need an alternative candidate that will allow them to feel "right".....as Clark was a non partisan previously and even voted for Republicans, this will garnet votes from those. This may be a much more sizeable chunk of the Republican party than we can most likely figure. In addition, the independents that might lean one way of the other......would find no reason not to vote Clark.

Security moms (previously soccer moms)would pick Clark over Bush IMO.

Even Nascar Dads would have a hard time looking at this patriotic military general and then rationalizing that somehow Bush is better.

The Jewish voters who have been attracted to Bush for his Israel policy will easily swith over to Clark's, as his is still supportive of Israel but much more pro-active.

Minorities will gravite toward Clarks, in particular Hispanics. He appears to hold many of the values they signify as being important....he appears moderate, although his policies are not.

In the likeabilty & Charisma factors Clark scores big. That means the exact secret weapon that Bush has with his disciples would be neutralized.

The election with Clark as the nominee would focus more on the policy agenda, because military and foreign policy potential attacks that Bush would make would be rendered inaffective against Clark. So Clark would be able to form the debate much better....less time taken up in defending himself. Clark will be accused of not having any knowledge in the domestic area...which will give Clark a chance to defend by discussing in detail his policies....bringing the policy debate out on the forefront...as opposed to being obscured by personal persona attacks.

Clark has the persona of a person in charge....much more than Bush...again, giving Clark the edge.

Clark can technically promote his intelligence without attacking Bush's. That means that the contrast and compare will be clean and implied...instead of shouted at voters.

Since Clark doesn't have to attack Bush personally.....as his persona does it all without saying a word....the election battle stays clean without Clark having to do PERSONAL mudslinging.....

Since Bush is not known to make attacks personally, Clark will not be diminished as he will not be forced to....

The bottomline is the perfect candidate for Democrats to be able to beat Bush at his own game. Whatever Clark is, Bush is not.

Clark is the perfect anti-Bush!

[FrenchieCat]

16. Kick for Clark

:kick:

[Myra]

18. General Clark's insistence the trial against Saddam should be in Iraq

Really nailed it. If his capture is, as BushCo claims, a good
thing for the Iraqis, then they should be the ones to seek what
they see as justice.

I appreciate how specific General Clark is in this policy,
discussing all aspects of the current situation:
Location of the trial, Legal Procedures, Prosecuting for International Crimes, and Punishment.

He seems to be the only candidate (certainly not Bush)
to have actually thought this through. And his recent testimony
in the Hague makes him the American best qualified to speak out
on the subject.

[aquanut]

19. Clark has vision

Clark embodies a very rare combination of intellect, vision, and the ability to create and execute a plan.

He is truly patriotic and compassionate.

I believe his record of selfless service to this country is unparalleled among all the candidates.

[FrenchieCat]

20. Another Kick

for Clark

[Jack_Dawson]

29. Kick

[oasis]

21. Kerry's presidential qualifications stretch a mile long. Those who will

take the time to read can only come to that conclusion.

[blm]

26. Heh...you're on the Clark thread, oasis.

;)

[petrock2004]

23. general clark is moderate enough

to keep people chilled out. i like dean, too, but he has such an emotional stake in everything, whereas clark just seems to be able to pacify people. i have to say i also think that if he doesn't win the nomination, he would make a really really good VP, since he has such a strong foreign policy.

clark has the strenghts of colin powell's appeal plus the strengths of clinton's appeal. i support him because i feel that he will be able to sway moderates, and probably some conservatives, to the democratic side for the election next year, not in spite of his voting record (reagan, etc) but perhaps because of it. i think "joe sixpack" americans are very afraid of a partisan person getting into office and steering us in a completely different direction. (ala bush)

but i could be wrong. :D it'll be fun to find out!!

and thanks for this daily democrat thread, it's nice to be nice!! hehehe
:D:D

[Kamika]

27. He has integrity..

Ok regular Disclaimer "I'm a Deanie"


Ok some weeks ago Clark said Chinamen about asians.. I dunno if anyone but asians cared.. anyway he called up a prominent leader in a democratic asian organisation the same night and personally apologized.

[BootinUp]

28. Clark has 100x the energy of 'Bushed' boy

Clark swims every morning, flies around the world, gets off the plane and appears on CNN, testifies at the Hague, flies back working up his formulation for helping the Iraqies set up Sadaams trial, on the plane evidently, gets off the plane and holds a 20 minute press conference, probably works late that night.

Meanwhile, back at the WH....Bushie boy reads one short speech written for him and reads it badly, then he takes a nappy poo.

[frustrated_lefty]

kick

[frustrated_lefty]

30. kick

[rbnyc]

31. He's saying a lot of the right stuff and he's saying it well.

And if he's the nominee, he will make Bush's pretend military service a very embarrassing issue.

[laruemtt]

32. a debate between

Clark and bushie would be priceless - for the millenia!

[MoonRiver]

33. Is there any way to get the American Son video?

We couldn't go to see it, but the trailer was tantalizing. How can we buy the video? If it's not for sale, it should be!

[DeepModem Mom]

34. On the campaign trail, he talks poetry, philosophy and physics,

as well as politics. He would be not only an effective President, but a very interesting one.