I want to support Hillary in the primary, but just can't. Molly Ivins said it well in 2006.

[Ninga]

This article resonates with me more today than ever. I wish i could express what is so difficult.....Hillary just does not have "it". Molly Ivins in many of her articles called it the "Elvis factor." Hillary just does not have it.



Friday, January 20, 2006; Posted: 9:18 a.m. EST (14:18 GMT)
AUSTIN, Texas (Creators Syndicate) -- I'd like to make it clear to the people who run the Democratic Party that I will not support Hillary Clinton for president.

Enough. Enough triangulation, calculation and equivocation. Enough clever straddling, enough not offending anyone This is not a Dick Morris election. Sen. Clinton is apparently incapable of taking a clear stand on the war in Iraq, and that alone is enough to disqualify her. Her failure to speak out on Terri Schiavo, not to mention that gross pandering on flag-burning, are just contemptible little dodges.

The recent death of Gene McCarthy reminded me of a lesson I spent a long, long time unlearning, so now I have to re-learn it. It's about political courage and heroes, and when a country is desperate for leadership. There are times when regular politics will not do, and this is one of those times. There are times a country is so tired of bull that only the truth can provide relief.

If no one in conventional-wisdom politics has the courage to speak up and say what needs to be said, then you go out and find some obscure junior senator from Minnesota with the guts to do it. In 1968, Gene McCarthy was the little boy who said out loud, "Look, the emperor isn't wearing any clothes." Bobby Kennedy -- rough, tough Bobby Kennedy -- didn't do it. Just this quiet man trained by Benedictines who liked to quote poetry.

What kind of courage does it take, for mercy's sake? The majority of the American people (55 percent) think the war in Iraq is a mistake and that we should get out. The majority (65 percent) of the American people want single-payer health care and are willing to pay more taxes to get it. The majority (86 percent) of the American people favor raising the minimum wage. The majority of the American people (60 percent) favor repealing Bush's tax cuts, or at least those that go only to the rich. The majority (66 percent) wants to reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending, but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

The majority (77 percent) thinks we should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment. The majority (87 percent) thinks big oil companies are gouging consumers and would support a windfall profits tax. That is the center, you fools. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF?

I listen to people like Rahm Emanuel superciliously explaining elementary politics to us clueless naifs outside the Beltway ("First, you have to win elections"). Can't you even read the damn polls?


Here's a prize example by someone named Barry Casselman, who writes, "There is an invisible civil war in the Democratic Party, and it is between those who are attempting to satisfy the defeatist and pacifist left base of the party and those who are attempting to prepare the party for successful elections in 2006 and 2008."

This supposedly pits Howard Dean, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, emboldened by "a string of bad new from the Middle East ... into calling for premature retreat from Iraq," versus those pragmatic folk like Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emmanuel, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Joe Lieberman.

Oh come on, people -- get a grip on the concept of leadership. Look at this war -- from the lies that led us into it, to the lies they continue to dump on us daily.

You sit there in Washington so frightened of the big, bad Republican machine you have no idea what people are thinking. I'm telling you right now, Tom DeLay is going to lose in his district. If Democrats in Washington haven't got enough sense to OWN the issue of political reform, I give up on them entirely.

Do it all, go long, go for public campaign financing for Congress. I'm serious as a stroke about this -- that is the only reform that will work, and you know it, as well as everyone else who's ever studied this. Do all the goo-goo stuff everybody has made fun of all these years: embrace redistricting reform, electoral reform, House rules changes, the whole package. Put up, or shut up. Own this issue, or let Jack Abramoff politics continue to run your town.

Bush, Cheney and Co. will continue to play the patriotic bully card just as long as you let them. I've said it before: War brings out the patriotic bullies. In World War I, they went around kicking dachshunds on the grounds that dachshunds were "German dogs." They did not, however, go around kicking German shepherds. The MINUTE someone impugns your patriotism for opposing this war, turn on them like a snarling dog and explain what loving your country really means. That, or you could just piss on them elegantly, as Rep. John Murtha did. Or eviscerate them with wit (look up Mark Twain on the war in the Philippines). Or point out the latest in the endless "string of bad news."

Do not sit there cowering and pretending the only way to win is as Republican-lite. If the Washington-based party can't get up and fight, we'll find someone who can.:thumbsup:

[niceypoo]

1. OK, now the circular firing squad of DU comes out from their hiding places...

...weapons loaded and ready to fire...

[Ninga]

2. NO NO NO NO !! This is about the history each and ever candiate brings to th

table and how their views either changed or didn't, how their insights grew or did'nt, what kind of leadership they have or don't.

[PurityOfEssence]

20. We DO have the right to not like her, don't we?

She is not "owed" the presidency. She has not suffered more than anyone else. She IS the most conservative of the current Democratic hopefuls. She avoids controversial issues while manically assuring her advancement. Her trade policy stinks. Her visa policy stinks. It's bad enough that she sucks up to the right wing by not contesting appointments like Negroponte and Rice, but to do so while painting herself as the tireless badger who fights the right at every turn is just dishonest.

She claims as laurels of leadership an initiative for health-care fifteen years ago that failed dismally to such a degree that health care reform was basically taken off the table.

She puffs and struts her "toughness" on foreign policy at a time when that's precisely the wrong approach to take.

In league with extreme right-wing religious extremists in the Senate, she is perfectly fine with going along with cramming more religion into government. Whether sincere or just more "positioning", it's still theocracy and just plain bad.

Her every instinct seems more driven by calculated positioning for advancement, and there's no reason to believe this will go away if elected.

We owe it to ourselves, the country and the world at large to call a spade a spade. If people want to vote for her because she's a Clinton and they can rub the reactionaries' noses in their villainy of the '90s or because she's a woman or because they're really somewhat to the right of moderate, those are crappy reasons and should be noted out loud in public. If people just want to be on the winning team so they can crow to their friends that they're "correct", they need to have this pointed out as the egocentric childishness that it is.

We don't just have a right to enlighten people about precisely who and what she is, we have a moral obligation to do so.

One last thing: her whole schtick is that she's "tougher" and "more competent" a "survivor" than anyone else. Great. Live the fantasy, but if her supporters claim this, they have no right to suck pity because she's so put upon. If she's a tower of strength, we shouldn't be called upon to have pity on her as the poor, tormented victim.

[snappyturtle]

28. Amen. I agree. nt

[niceypoo]

41. Yes, but for some it is an obsession...

...case in point...

[Dhalgren]

3. K&R...

The Democratic Party had to either put-up or shut-up and they chose the latter...

[GoneOffShore]

4. I'll stand with Molly on this one.

We've got to stop pandering to the Beltway and stop trying to win the voters we'll NEVER get.

Stand up, speak the truth and we'll win elections.

[niceypoo]

5. Very true, I have never understood candidated trying to pander to the right

who will never ever consider voting for them.

[Larkspur]

7. I'm with Molly too

[wyldwolf]

6. She also couldn't bring herself to support Al Gore, endorsed Nader instead

Sorry, folks. That is the albatross around her neck.

[Ninga]

8. Any chance you have a link? Thanks.

[wyldwolf]

9. I always have links

http://freepress.org/columns/display/1/2000/198

[Ninga]

10. Thanks, it was a good article. Bottom line for Molly was that government works

best for the people at the fringes, the people who need it the most.

Molly was a real liberal. It is hard to be an authentic liberal, because it means your paycheck might be a bit lighter, so the less fortunate get more.

I do not resent her take on the state of politics when she wrote the article.

If we are honest, both Gore of 2000, and Kerry of 2004 were stiff, wonks, that made it hard for the politically challenged to see their way to vote for them.

She explained her vote well.
This is a Molly Ivins quote: edited
"I'm voting for Ralph. I'm voting for Nader because I believe in him, admire him and would like to see his issues and policies triumph in our political life. I'm also voting for him because I live in Texas -- where all 32 electoral votes will go to George W. Bush even if I stand on my head, turn blue and vote for Gus Hall, the late communist."

We can debate and fight until we are blue in the face. The nebulous factor, that is so hard for me to put into words that Hillary lacks, will be her downfall. Writers in the ilk of Ivins, are able to capture it. Ivins called it the "Elvis factor", and intelligence aside, Hillary just does not have it.

[skiddlybop]

11. Bye, then...

Isn't your thread really meant for Green Underground, then?

This website is about Democratic candidates and Democrats. And Democrats winning.

[ShortnFiery]

13. Nader would be a great VP, but the write-in democrat is Dennis Kucinich.

You're not telling me that Dennis Kucinich is not a democrat?

Well are you? :shrug:

[Ninga]

16. Without question he is.

[Ninga]

14. I'm not going anywhere. I have been here since 2003. I am a union loving liberal.

I am a registered Democrat and I am an elected official.

My OP is about the essence of what my concern is, and in my personal view, why I can not support Hillary in the primary.

Perhaps I need to do better about making my self more clear.

I support John Edwards. He is a Democrat.

I have great concern about Hillary, and have tired to find a less acerbic way to express my concern.

[eridani]

40. And it's about political reality. Like how a Democrat is no way in hell going to win Texas anyway

--so WTF is the matter with a protest vote in that case?

[ShortnFiery]

12. Excellent Idea! When I write-in Dennis Kucinich for President I'll also jot down Ralph Nader as VP.

I've not ever voted for Nader but hell, an Kucinich/Nader Presidency would end the stranglehold of The Military Industrial Complex and other Corporate entities from getting their grubby little hands on *all our TAX DOLLARS.*

"If you get off of the corporatist DLCer BOAT, you might as well go all the way."

After all, our illustrious CENTRISTS and National Leaders couldn't resent OR disown the netroots and liberals any more than they demonstrated with MoveOn.org - let's see how they do without us "pariahs of the party" on the Presidential Voting Level? :-)

[LynneSin]

18. Write-in candidates - why not just vote for the republican candidate instead

because essentially - that is what you are doing

[Rydz777]

15. Thanks for bringing Molly back into our consciousness. She

provides a kind of purity that is always bracing.

In the end, we will compromise the purity and hope for the best. My touchstone is the war. Nothing else will get done until we divorce ourselves from this disaster.

[bread_and_roses]

35. Molly had and has the respect, admiration, even a kind of love from probably millions - some

albatross.

[LynneSin]

17. No one says any of us have to support her in the primaries - I'm not

My complaint are these 'doom & gloom' threads where people are not only refusing to support her in the primaries but then announcing (hell encouraging) others to commit to voting 3rd party or not voting (heck one person said they'd vote republican) if Hillary gets the nomination.

The latter is my problem. No one is demanding that this is a 'support hillary in the primaries ONLY' web forum. But hell if I'm going to let this bullshit about being ok to vote 3rd party, voting republican or not voting (general election time) being posted here at DU. This is a website for democrats. Bitch all you want about Hillary - hell I don't want to support her in the primaries. But if you (meaning whomever is reading this post) feels they cannot vote for her if she gets the nomination then perhaps you (again, same person reading this post) should find another website that supports alternative, non-democrat candidates

[GoneOffShore]

21. I'm never going to vote third party

I've been a registered Democrat since I was 21 - yeah I'm that old, you had to be 21 to vote.

And I don't want Hils as the nominee. But if she gets it, and she might, I'll damn well grit my teeth and vote for her. I'll also start writing letters from the day she's inaugurated trying to push her back to the true values of the party.

[LynneSin]

22. I'd almost respect and cheer on what you're saying but....

yer a damn cowboys fan

:grr:

E * A * G * L * E * S - EAGLES!!

(actually my intent is the same thing - I figure it'll be easier to fight a Hillary Clinton in the White House than any republican)

[GoneOffShore]

25. I'm a Chelsea supporter

and sometimes Tottenham Hotspur.


:beer:

[Highway61]

31. I agree...I also will vote for her if she gets it

I don't exactly like it but "write ins" are off base at this point. There is too much to loose.

Now....Dallas Fan??????????? YIKES!!!!

Patriots....P A T R I O T S....YES!!!!!!!!!!

[ChiciB1]

19. I Think This Is Allowed Here At DU... But I Found This Quote From Molly

posted by a DU'er about what Molly Ivins had to say about Edwards back in 2003!


Forum Name General Discussion: Politics
Topic subject Molly Ivins on John Edwards, August 2003
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
3538576, Molly Ivins on John Edwards, August 2003
Posted by jsamuel on Fri Sep-21-07 11:09 AM

Molly Ivins on John Edwards, August 2003
by Drew
Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 09:51:18 AM CDT

I'm neither blessed nor cursed with a photographic memory, but I do remember this - Molly Ivins' view of John Edwards, from her August 2003 column on the Democratic candidates in The Progressive:

John Edwards in the early appearances struck me as almost a little too pretty, a little lite. But he's got a populist streak I like--his daddy spent thirty-seven years working in a North Carolina mill, and Edwards ain't forgot it. Seemed to me he might develop. In a recent speech at Georgetown University, the sumbitch hit a home run. (Look it up.)


Apparently, way back in 2003, before John Edwards supposedly "reinvented" himself as a populist, a fine judge saw a populist in him herself.

And so did I.

more...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/21/62852/7610
"Glory Days"

[snappyturtle]

23. K&R Love this....maybe it's better Molly isn't around to see her

party's leaders in Washington marking time. I really believe that is what the leaders are doing....waiting until their numbers are bigger in 2009. But, can we wait?

You know Ninga it amazes me how our party does not like being tagged as unpatriotic whenever we criticize the administration and its policies and yet when some of us critque our party's policies and individual leaders, or candidates we're looked at and sometimes blantantly called anti-democrats. I too, have concerns about Hilliary Clinton becoming our presidential candidate and it appears from this article that Molly definitely did too. Not bad company in my book!

[Ninga]

24. I have been searching for many months to try and find the right "words" to express what it is

I feel about Hillary, and how I perceive her intelligence as not being leadership.

You know snappyturtle, those of us who have this common concern need to find a way to bring this debate forward.

If not here? Where?

If not now? When?

This IS the place.

We must continue to work to find the words that will bring home what writers like Molly Ivins knew long ago.

She called it the "Elvis factor"

Neither Gore in 2000, nor Kerry in 2004 had it.

Gore certainly relaxed and learned to find his center and cultivate through self deprecating humor, his "Elvis factor"

Each and everyone of us know that to be true.....Gore appears to have fought off his demons and found his center. We all feel it that is why people have clamored for him to run.

But he isn't running.

So what are we left with.

Obama and Edwards are both complete packages and I will vote for either in the primary. If Hillary is the nominee I will do my best to support her.

But by all that is good and right.....I will work as hard as i can for her not to be the nominee.

[snappyturtle]

27. Tim Russert is hosting a Democratic debate tonight, isn't he?

Maybe we can learn more. As far as I am concerned, Hilliary has, especially of late, cooked her goose in my book. I think she views the Iraqi occupation as a long drawn out affair, that Iran might "need" some 'adjustment', that insurance company based health care is the answer, et.al. I have this feeling, hard too for me to get my head around,she's trying to say the right things to get elected and yet doesn't have our BEST interests in mind. I believe she will support corporate interests over regular citizens and package it as a good deal.

Maybe my feeling is best described as wary because I think Hilliary, and women in powerful positions, grow to become manipulative. I want 'someone' who will call the shots in a straight forward manner, no b.s. It's time for the pendulum to swing in favor of the people and let the corporations fend for themselves as we have had to do.

[ChiciB1]

32. I Actually Got To Meet Molly In 2004 When She Came To My Town

and gave a speech BEFORE the 2004 Election. There was a book signing afterward and she agreed to have a picture taken with me. She didn't look well at the time, but her spirits were high. She was extremely critical of "Shrub" as she called him, but was cynical too. She felt that The Idiot was going to "pull" another 2000 and talked about how awful it would be. Not just for Democrats but for this country as a whole.

I lived in Texas and very near Austin (her home to some extent) and talked with her about the place I had lived when I was there. She told me it was "the same old dump" it always was and I agreed. I think she was a year older than I, but I always followed her and still have some VCR tapes from C-Span that I take out from time to time and watch.

She was very insightful and we not only lost "her voice" but her dedication to America and what it STOOD FOR! I knew she liked John Edwards back then, but he didn't get the nomination... she didn't make any comments about Kerry though.

I'm just glad I got to meet her and miss her very much!

[Ninga]

33. Very neat you got to meet her, good for you! It does make a difference to see a person in

the flesh and to feel their committment and passion first hand.

Who else is like her today??? No one comes to mind.

:scared:

[ChiciB1]

37. There Are A Few Women Activists, More Well Known Before... But I

hear very little about them unless I check into it myself. But there is NO ONE that matches Molly to me. One VCR tape I have is hilarious because she talks about how she got fired from the NYT for writing an article about a "chicken plucking" contest in a town in Texas! THEY didn't find it amusing, but if you know much about her, you can just imagine! That was tens years ago at least.

[flpoljunkie]

26. As true today as when Molly wrote it in January, 2006. We need leadership, NOT triangulation!

[antigop]

29. Aw, Molly. ... she was just another member of the "loonie left".

:sarcasm:

[Carolina]

30. God bless her

Gee, I miss Molly!

And oh, how right she is.

[Armstead]

34. Says it perfectly

[KoKo]

36. Thanks for the post...

many here are concerned. Posting Molly's article gave voice to why we are concerned without us having to post something that isn't as well written as Molly's piece where we would just get flamed.

:thumbsup:

[MethuenProgressive]

38. You "want to support Clinton", yet you have an Edwards logo?

The only way the GOP can beat Clinton in 08 is with help from Democrats.

[Imagevision]

39. Yep! me and Molly went to different schools together, I can't support Hillary as much

as I truly would like to with Obama being a better choice for a change. Hillary ia a good Senator but Barack is better for change of new leadership, just gimme that Youngblood...!